Trains.com

Saluda Grade to reopen?

238371 views
531 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    February 2012
  • 1 posts
Posted by haleyscomet on Thursday, February 23, 2012 3:04 PM

I too am extremely interested on wether they reopen the grade so I just signed on to the Trains forum.  We have some vacation property near Saluda and used to hear the diesels (covered wagons) rumbling up the grade.  As a child I would watch the train activity in Saluda while playing in the playground near the tracks.  We would love to hear trains on it again!

Has anyone ever walked the grade to see if there is any activity?  Would one even be able to get around the washout?

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
  • 13,456 posts
Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:39 AM

.....Yes, Hendersonville Railfan, welcome to the forum.  And we appreciate any update you can learn on the subject.

Quentin

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Centennial, CO
  • 3,218 posts
Posted by Stourbridge Lion on Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:09 AM

Hendersonville Railfan - Welcome to trains.com! Cowboy

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • 6 posts
Posted by Hendersonville Railfan on Wednesday, February 22, 2012 8:54 AM

I agree! Any official information would be great to hear. This forum is the best place for knowledge of the Saluda Grade and I know we all want to watch them attack the grade again. I was in a carseat when the 611 thundered up the grade, and I was 9 when they abandoned the grade, and they ceased operations to brevard shortly thereafter. I have also heard rumors of tie replacement through Landrum, on the Saluda side of the cut. I don't know if it's true or not since I'm at college, not in Hendersonville anymore. I remember seeing the NS "Brick" research train (my video was mentioned on this thread way back on 1-19-2011, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2Ymlo944-c&hd=1) from when I caught the train coming out of Hendersonville that summer. I'll keep digging for information and make my friend who told me about the track work take a picture next time!

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
  • 13,456 posts
Posted by Modelcar on Monday, February 20, 2012 7:04 PM

.....Since we've had reports on here by fellow posters of hearing chatter of possible Saluda line opening.....We're wondering if Trains Mag. personnel might have any inside info they could release and or comment on....Question

Quentin

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
  • 13,456 posts
Posted by Modelcar on Monday, February 20, 2012 2:17 PM

....Johnny, now that you memtion of the article back a ways in Trains, I do recall that article.  I don't remember just when either, but I'd say maybe 15 years or so ago....It was back there quite a ways.

And...I probably have that issue, but woe is me....It's in a box someplace, and it would require one to search and search for it.

Back in Pennsylvania near our home area there is a run-away extension built for trucks out of control.  Location is on US route 30 west, downgrade on Laurel Hill mtn. nearing the small community of Laughlintown.

It has always put a question in my mind when I go past it...as it is not built  up grade as one would drive onto it.  But some filling has it built up from the grade of route 30, and the surface of it appears to be deep sand....But if a trucker did make it to the end of it.....and still had intertia working for him....there would be a sizeable dropoff at it's end.

Meaning {down over the end of the ground fill}.

Trivia:  I just noticed, as of early last week, marks the time I've been on this forum: 10 years...!

Quentin

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Monday, February 20, 2012 10:43 AM

Modelcar

.....At one time in the past, I understand it had two runaway tracks.

Yes, Quentin, your memory is right. My memory is not good enough to remember when it was published in Trains, but there quite an article several years back, which gave the history. While in the hospital, after surviving a runaway, an engineer came up with the idea of safety tracks--and the company listened to him. Not only were the tracks upgrade, but also they were sanded. Back when they were put into use, the engineer had to use the locomotive whistle to inform the switch tender that he had the train under control, and it was safe to line the switches for the main.

Johnny

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
  • 13,456 posts
Posted by Modelcar on Sunday, February 19, 2012 9:42 PM

.....Sometime ago, I believe it was on here, I found a black / white photo of a steam locomotive at the end of the remaining safety track, and it had plowed into the dirt up to the bottom of the smoke box...!

Quentin

  • Member since
    April 2010
  • 40 posts
Posted by railcarguy on Sunday, February 19, 2012 8:54 PM

Back in the mid 80's I saw three SD45's pulling eight fully loaded wood chip cars up hill and they were pulling for all they were worth.

Also in the mid 80's, I heard from the Norfolk Southern people at Asheville a loaded Bellmont coal train with mid train locos with the radio car ran onto the safety track and the front truck of the lead unit went off of the end of the safety track with the road foreman of engines at the controls. I've seen the safety track and that's one steep grade!

 

Railcar guy

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
  • 13,456 posts
Posted by Modelcar on Sunday, February 19, 2012 8:22 PM

.....At one time in the past, I understand it had two runaway tracks.

Quentin

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:48 PM

j610

I was there once and stood at the bottom of the grade looking up . It is almost impossible to believe a train could make it up that steep a grade . But i have seen videos of it and it is awesome .     RON

I have been up the grade, on #27--2 engine units, a headend car or two, two (I think) coaches, and a sleeper. It took us over an hour because the weed-killer train had just come down, spreading oil not only on the right of way, but also on the track. I do not remember if the engines were out of sand or if the sanders were not working, but it was a slow ascent. I have also gone down twice, and we moved slowly lest we run away.

The operation there certainly was not typical, even under the best conditions.

Johnny

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: morganton north carolina
  • 515 posts
Posted by j610 on Sunday, February 19, 2012 12:27 PM

I am keeping my fingers crossed because it is only 70 miles or so southwest of me .     RON

J610
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
  • 13,456 posts
Posted by Modelcar on Sunday, February 19, 2012 9:05 AM

.....Ron, I had the same feelings being there and trying to realize it really is a railroad...!

Stood at the edge of town and sighted down that grade, and to myself, could hardly believe I was looking at a railroad that was actually used in the usual manner.

We stopped several times and waited {when they were still using it}, and never got a chance to watch the action in person.

So if something does happen to reopen it....I'd have to think seriously to make the trip from here down to Saluda to really take in such action.

Quentin

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: morganton north carolina
  • 515 posts
Posted by j610 on Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:38 PM

I was there once and stood at the bottom of the grade looking up . It is almost impossible to believe a train could make it up that steep a grade . But i have seen videos of it and it is awesome .     RON

J610
  • Member since
    February 2012
  • 22 posts
Posted by rocket2go on Tuesday, February 14, 2012 6:31 PM

I took the same route that Bunn19 did and saw exactly the same things he describes.  I went all the way to Flat Rock N.C.with no sign of rail work anywhere between Saluda and there.   The work crew at Saluda was taking care of a water/sewer main, or something like that.   However, the track repair crews were busy re-building road crossings, putting in new ties, etc., east of Campobello, at Gramling, and all the way to downtown Inman, S.C.  

Tags: rocket2go
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
  • 13,456 posts
Posted by Modelcar on Tuesday, February 14, 2012 6:22 PM

....Fellow posters from the Saluda area.  All the visual info is really getting our hopes up.  So...please keep the chatter coming to keep us aware of what just might be anticipated.

Thanks to all who are doing so.

Quentin

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • 54 posts
Posted by Bunn19 on Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:06 PM

Tryonian

I drove up the 176 and saw them working on the tracks past Saluda! so, I am starting to believe the rumors :) but, there is so much work to do before the big engines roll!  

 

 

Where did you see them working on the tracks?  I rode up there today from Spartanburg and didn't see any track work going on past Landrum.  I did see a work crew that looked to be from the City of Saluda working near the crossing just past the crest of the grade.

I'm hoping to see work crews from NS past the cut off at Landrum in the near future!

 

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, February 14, 2012 11:42 AM

Frank Ezell

This post from anb740 is very correct.   The washout is still there and it appears that a part of the mountain simply washed out from under the rails for about 150 to 200 ft (around 2002/03).   Of course, if NS can fix things as good and as fast as they did in New Orleans after Katrina, they can fix anything, including this monster!   

Currently, there is a 23 car work train on the dead end siding at East Spartanburg, consisting mostly of dormintory cars, which are occupied.  I asked one of the workers if they were going to work on the Spartanbury to Asheville line and he answered "I believe that is where we're heading."   Naturally, this is not official news and this may have been a contract worker instead of an NS employee.  This crew could simply be getting ready to help with the new ties, ballast, and rail crossing work that is currently underway from Landrum to Hayne.   I understand the same thing is happening on the other end of the line near Hendersonville. 

Keep in mind that there is no official news about re-opening the line and that all this activity could just be preventive maintenance work.   There is a good size lumber yard just south of Landrum that ships wood chips, and the rails may simply need work to bring them up to FRA and NS standards.    

Tryonian replied on Tue, Feb 14 2012 10:54 AM

I drove up the 176 and saw them working on the tracks past Saluda! so, I am starting to believe the rumors :) but, there is so much work to do before the big engines roll!  

 

To Frank Ezell and Tryonian:

           Thank you, both, for the information!    It is really great to hear that there might be work going on that would bring some traffic back on that line over Saluda Grade!

    We're looking forward to more positive reports!

    As they say in South Central Kansas

" MUCH GRASS!"Smile, Wink & Grin

 

 

 


 

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • 3 posts
Posted by Tryonian on Tuesday, February 14, 2012 10:54 AM

I drove up the 176 and saw them working on the tracks past Saluda! so, I am starting to believe the rumors :) but, there is so much work to do before the big engines roll!  

 

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Centennial, CO
  • 3,218 posts
Posted by Stourbridge Lion on Monday, February 13, 2012 2:36 PM

Frank - Welcome to Trains.com! Cowboy

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • 22 posts
Posted by rocket2go on Monday, February 13, 2012 1:52 PM

This post from anb740 is very correct.   The washout is still there and it appears that a part of the mountain simply washed out from under the rails for about 150 to 200 ft (around 2002/03).   Of course, if NS can fix things as good and as fast as they did in New Orleans after Katrina, they can fix anything, including this monster!   

Currently, there is a 23 car work train on the dead end siding at East Spartanburg, consisting mostly of dormintory cars, which are occupied.  I asked one of the workers if they were going to work on the Spartanbury to Asheville line and he answered "I believe that is where we're heading."   Naturally, this is not official news and this may have been a contract worker instead of an NS employee.  This crew could simply be getting ready to help with the new ties, ballast, and rail crossing work that is currently underway from Landrum to Hayne.   I understand the same thing is happening on the other end of the line near Hendersonville. 

Keep in mind that there is no official news about re-opening the line and that all this activity could just be preventive maintenance work.   There is a good size lumber yard just south of Landrum that ships wood chips, and the rails may simply need work to bring them up to FRA and NS standards.    

 

 

Tags: rocket2go
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
  • 13,456 posts
Posted by Modelcar on Monday, February 13, 2012 8:50 AM

.....Yes, you are correct.  The rails were cut, and moved off center as you say and spiked down so no continuity exists on the route.  Also, a mound of ground was dumped on the tracks at that point too.

But there also exists a large land slide out from under the tracks not too far from Saluda, that left a wide gaping space of the tracks hanging in mid air. {I really doubt if that has ever been repaired}.

Also....a person with a bit too much "cool aid" drove his pickup truck...I believe from Saluda down the tracks and actually came upon this big gap where no support was under the tracks, and some of the ties fell from the weight of the truck, and the truck was not able to go any further.  The fellow was lucky it didn't roll down off the side of the tracks at the gap left from the ground sliding out from under the tracks.....It is a long way down where the ground slid down the embankment.  {I don't know if that ROW support ever has been repaired....I doubt it}.  Have no idea how the pickup truck was recovered.

Someone had very good photos of all of the above posted on here.  I do have some in "my pictures".

So all of the above certainly would have to be dealt with, and I'm sure a lot more...before any railroad activity could be restored on "Saluda Hill".

Quentin

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: St. Paul, Minnesota
  • 2,116 posts
Posted by Boyd on Monday, February 13, 2012 12:22 AM

Well is there still a section of track at one end where they unbolted the rails and moved them sideways about 2 feet each rail? I remember seeing a picture of it,,, maybe at the beginning of this thread or another thread on Saluda.

Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
  • 13,456 posts
Posted by Modelcar on Sunday, February 12, 2012 6:02 PM

Tryonian.....Please accept my thoughts just as Sam has related them on his post.

We're hanging our hat on each scrap of info re: Will Saluda ever be put to use again.

We appreciate you're input...Please accept it as that.

Quentin

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Sunday, February 12, 2012 12:27 PM

Tryonian

I'm not really trying to be all mysterious, just trying to find out more about what I heard at our Tryon town design meeting, and noticed that I seem to have a bit of info, only not verified...

I am not a reporter, but, I will continue to look into it...    and will post more substantiated info as soon as I can.  We were told that Norfolk Southern should be the one to broadcast the news, and, seeing as I don't know anyone in NS I have to  just go down the tracks to see for myself if there are any signs of activity...

I know I was disappointed when I moved here a few years ago to hear that the trains had stopped flowing...

but, I am also sort of wishing we didn't have to mine our , or other folk's mountains to feed our industrious nature...  I know we export coal, but, we were told by the tourism town manager Cris Armbrust that we would be seeing, hearing trains full of chin ese coal sooner or later (from what I hear, later)

as far as the local business owner's response, they were mixed, because, coal leaves a lot of dust... and it causes acid rain...  We all agreed we would MUCH rather have a passenger rail 

I think most people like the sound of the train, I know I do... but, a lot of folks  are also going to be annoyed by it.  I hope it sounds like this : )

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2no5kd21Z1A

TRYONIAN:

          Please do not mistake our 'skepticism' for an effort to beat you down. The Grade at Saluda is a topic of interest around these Forums for some time. It goes back to Threads that have been posted for years. 

        So we welcome your interest and are grateful to have your eye and ears as a source of information so close to SALUDA.  we only seem to get bits and pieces of information, sketchy at best, but at times our hopes are raised by information such as you posted.  

         Several Posters here have ties in the area and travel though that area hopeful of seeing activity on Saluda, as well.         Jim Wrinn, TRAINS editor, is from North Carolina, and  TRAINS has carried  some articles on the 'Loops' and the NC Transportation Museum at Spencer.  So you can see why we ask the questions we do, referencing Saluda, and what is happening around those hils and hollows.

    Thanks, Tryonian, for posting and hope you continue to stop in and contribute around here!

 

 


 

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • 3 posts
Posted by Tryonian on Saturday, February 11, 2012 12:33 PM

I'm not really trying to be all mysterious, just trying to find out more about what I heard at our Tryon town design meeting, and noticed that I seem to have a bit of info, only not verified...

I am not a reporter, but, I will continue to look into it...    and will post more substantiated info as soon as I can.  We were told that Norfolk Southern should be the one to broadcast the news, and, seeing as I don't know anyone in NS I have to  just go down the tracks to see for myself if there are any signs of activity...

I know I was disappointed when I moved here a few years ago to hear that the trains had stopped flowing...

but, I am also sort of wishing we didn't have to mine our , or other folk's mountains to feed our industrious nature...  I know we export coal, but, we were told by the tourism town manager Cris Armbrust that we would be seeing, hearing trains full of chin ese coal sooner or later (from what I hear, later)

as far as the local business owner's response, they were mixed, because, coal leaves a lot of dust... and it causes acid rain...  We all agreed we would MUCH rather have a passenger rail 

I think most people like the sound of the train, I know I do... but, a lot of folks  are also going to be annoyed by it.  I hope it sounds like this : ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2no5kd21Z1A

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
  • 13,456 posts
Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, February 11, 2012 11:53 AM

......Surely that statement of "coal from China", is actually coal to China...We are exporting coal.

I've tried several times back roughly a decade {right before shutdown}, when coming back from Florida....to see action on that "Hill", but was never successful.  Waiting and waiting for up to 4 hrs...

And I too respectfully, would like to know a bit about "we"....Like to believe it really has come from a good source.

Item:  If it is true....they better start {now}, hacking on the Kudzu...

Quentin

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, February 10, 2012 7:51 PM

Getting trains up the grade is a exciting show for the railfan.

Getting trains down the grade is a terrifying reality for the engineer.

zardoz

 

Might I ask, who is "we"?

Coal FROM China?!? There's a twist.

But if it's true, I wonder how many times the trains will have to be split to make it up the grade.....

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Kenosha, WI
  • 6,567 posts
Posted by zardoz on Friday, February 10, 2012 7:40 PM

Tryonian

We were in a meeting and were told that N>S will  be opening the grade

Might I ask, who is "we"?

Coal FROM China?!? There's a twist.

But if it's true, I wonder how many times the trains will have to be split to make it up the grade.....

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania
  • 13,456 posts
Posted by Modelcar on Friday, February 10, 2012 7:22 PM

....Every once in a while this kind of news {not quite this possitive}, comes along....I sure would like to experience witnessing action on that "Hill"....We'll keep hoping.

Exporting coal to China is a reality....A new unit train back in my home area {Somerset, Co., Pa.}, has been running now for a year or so after about 8 years no action on that mine loading area / CSX branch.  And I understand that is for export.

We'll certainly be watching for indications on Saluda....I'm sure if that would become a reality, lots of work would have to be accomplished to bring the line back to good condition for operation.

I wonder about that landslide near Saluda....It certainly will require work if it's not been repaired, and I doubt if it has been.

Quentin

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy