http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otgDdqsxulg&feature=related
check this out it shows saluda from a google earth viewpoint
....Peter & Bunn19:
The posts just keep getting better...Thanks for the additional photos you {Bunn19}, provided, and Peter {from Australia}, thanks for showing that very interesting video....{I have seen it before}, but it's very welcome again.
That really shows the challenge to ascend that mountain ridge and on to it's destination.
Again, I'm amazed the ROW is not covered with Kudzu...! Spraying must have been done at times. From what I understand of that stuff, it's almost impossible to stop it.
Quentin
I am finding this discussion fascinating, particularly with the excellent photos and the Utube Google Earth tour now available.
What is the nature of the grade starting at Landrum? I assume the gradient is most severe once it makes the right hand turn (west to north) towards Saluda. Is that indeed the most severe gradient?
If NS begins running trains again, I am heading southeast to see this at some point in my life.
Ed
Just watched an incredible UTube video "NW611 Stalls on Saluda" from Oct 92.
Wow.
ed
The most severe part of the grade is the climb out of Melrose west to Sand Cut. That part is about 5.2%. I believe another section would be in the area of the first safety track (abandoned) and on up to Saluda at a little less than 5.2%, perhaps, but still challenging. The double track to Saluda and beyond starts just west of the first safety track. The line between Landrum and Tryon is on a gradual rise and can be conquered with no problem. Once out of Tryon heading west toward Melrose, the incline becomes steeper but more or less on a gradual basis till you reach Melrose, then the fun begins!
I believe the Trains mag. article was written by Frank Clodfelter who was an engineer for Southern back in the day. Check him out on Google, might find some info...
[quote user="engineer909"]
"...I believe the Trains mag. article was written by Frank Clodfelter who was an engineer for Southern back in the day. Check him out on Google, might find some info..."
[/quote]
Thanks, Engineer 909:
Appropriately, the link below is to an article by Mr. Frank Clodfelter in TRAINS magazine Nov. 1984. [Note price : $2.00 ]
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:MiOmBlfKJUwJ:www.polkcounty.org/saludagrade/saluda%2520grade.pdf+frank+clodfelter&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgOUhfiXPkB5940xQCgPnDSQUuQnaW0t4nhIkIiWl19Qcd7ue8YKKWygseIfG3SKgMvFr2IEBDW06yGkrniLLfhjJfNrvXIM5q7lTP6xV-UfoBIcn8y_W1w8lkdGq2s2y0RaPIn&sig=AHIEtbTVQszBWefS5MwovzuKhv1iHE47aA
OK, where is Melrose?I looked on Google Maps and there isnt a town. Is this a railroad point, perhaps a siding?Ed
Thanks for the great pictures of the washout! You did what I've been too lazy to do.
I'd like to hear more information on the improvements being made from Landrum to Hayne. How far north/west did they go toward Landrum? All the way to the cut rails or just to the wood yard? There is another grade crossing on the Landrum side of the wood yard that would have needed improvements. That in itself will be a major clue. Are these improvements necessary due to age and wear, or are they needed for a future increase in traffic?
The complete Saluda Grade article is available for free in HTML or scanned Adobe .pdf. I don't want to post the link since I'm not sure about the copyright, but you can find it with a little more Googling.
MP173 OK, where is Melrose?I looked on Google Maps and there isnt a town. Is this a railroad point, perhaps a siding?Ed
Melrose is here. Believe it or not, there used to be a post office and you could even board a train there. This oblique aerial image shows the remaining number 2 safety track at Melrose.
The grade crossing on the West side of Capps lumber has been completely reworked. The track work has extended right up to the cut rails.
Bunn19 The grade crossing on the West side of Capps lumber has been completely reworked. The track work has extended right up to the cut rails.
That's certainly interesting. Although the line is technically still active up to the cut point, so it may have been a requirement. I can't imagine them spending anymore money than they had to, though.
Still quiet on the Flat Rock side, Hendersonville/Asheville folks? I'm thinking this work is only being done from Landrum to Hayne. . . .
This is an email I got from the NS about Saluda:
Jeremy – This isn’t a stupid question at all, and I get variations of it a lot. Here’s the truth: While the Saluda Grade section is currently inactive, we have no plans to abandon it, nor do we have specific plans to reactive it. We could return it to active service if and when business conditions warrant. Feel free to share this answer with any and all who ask, if that will help tamp down the rumor mill. And thanks for your interest in Norfolk Southern.
Robin C. Chapman
Director Public Relations
Norfolk Southern Corporation
757-629-2713
robin.chapman@nscorp.com
From: Jeremy Gregg
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:02 AMTo: Chapman, Robin C.Subject:Saluda Grade
Robin, I know you're probably very busy and get bombarded with stupid emails. I guess we can add this one to the list. I am just tired of hearing the rumors and not knowing the truth so i figured I would ask someone who works for Southern. Are there any plans to re-open the Saluda Grade section of track in Polk County, NC? This is part of the W Line that runs between Asheville NC and Spartanburg SC. Thanks for your time and I am sorry to have bothered you. Jeremy Gregg
Melrose is a town, 4.8 miles west of Tryon. Back when there was overnight service between Asheville and Jacksoville, #'s 9 & 10, the Skyland Special, were scheduled to stop there; the Carolina Special did not.
Johnny
Bunn19, I'll be headed home to Hendersonville for a few days early next week. Finally a break from college and I'll be able to check some things out if nobody else has by then. This is the most chatter I've heard in a while about the grade and I'm excited for it. I'll keep diggin for information!
dubch87:Is your photo at the bottom of your reply at Melrose?
There is a safety valve track and what appears to be a siding.
Jeremy.....Posing the question directly to N S, Dir. Pub. Rel., seemed to get you a direct answer to questions many of us have.
So thanks for that effort.
I was tired of hearing the rumors and wanted to find out. I have to agree with one of the previous posts though. As far as rumors I have heard more in the last month than I have in the past 10 yrs.
jwgregg-
Thanks for taking the time to write NS directly. I think this is the best answer that we can ask for now.
They didn't directly deny that they had plans(like they have before in I believe 2006 or so) to open the line, but didn't say that they had any specific plans either.
I've heard rumors (like many others have said on here) that Amtrak is pushing for a route over the grade, as well a new route as coal exports. I guess only time will tell.
As anyone that's ever worked for a large company knows, NS isn't going to let the cat out of the bag so to speak (if it ever happens) until the deal is signed in ink and the work crews are on the way to the grade. We might get a press release in 3 weeks, 6 months, or the line could sit and never be reopened.
One thing to say is that they are spending quite a bit of money to rework the line from Hayne to Spartanburg, and there have been rumors that NS has made comments in meetings in Tryon about the line being reopened. I think it'll happen eventually, but there are a lot of factors and the economy can change extremely quickly.
One can hope......
Yeah I wondered about all the track work between Spartanburg and Landrum. Also I have heard there is a lot of work going on west of Saluda. I have heard a lot of talk coming from Tryon about this. I hope that it is true that they will re-open it. I would love to see an amtrak train on that line but how true do you think it is?
We can all hope for the best..
Thanks
Poor Robin Chapman has probably answered that question more times than (s)he would care to remember. And every time has been the same answer.
There is no point in getting excited about it until those rails are reconnected. And NS WILL have to say something if/when the time comes. It has been a decade since the line was deactivated, and a public awareness and safety initiative campaign will have to be done in the area.
And yes, the signature picture is at Melrose in October 2001.
As an avid railfan and resident of the region, our motto on this whole subject should be: "I'll believe it when I see it" We could all save ourselves a lot of angst, and that includes me!
I agree completely. But as it has already been said. There are too many rumors in the last few months. I don't wanna credit that too over eagerness but maybe that is what it is.... Some good valid questions have been asked in the last few posts also. Why are they doing so much track work between Spartanburg (Hayne) and Landrum? The old saying is everything happens for a reason. I just hope that reason is Saluda opening back up. But I fear you're exactly correct. We will believe it when we see it.
My take is that first of all we owe Jeremy a vote of thanks for taking the bull by the horns and writing to Mr. Robin Chapman of NS Corp And to Mr. Robin Chapman for responding forthrightly to Jeremy's inquiry.
I think that what many of us were worried about was that NS would walk away from the route and totally abandon it. In this day and time of DPU equipped units, and the potential for the old 'W' line as a through route to Ports on the Southeastern Coast. IT is nice to know should it fit into their traffic plans, NS could bring the line back into an active segment of their system. NS has announced an extension of the 'Heartland Corridor from Coulmbus down to Cincinnati. A reopened W line would give access to traffic through Ashville, Spartanburg, Columbia, and Charleston.
Imagine stacks on Saluda with DPU's. A true through route from the Southeast Coast to the upper Midwest(?) Pure speculation, you bet! But why not?
Bunn19 I've heard rumors (like many others have said on here) that Amtrak is pushing for a route over the grade...
I've heard rumors (like many others have said on here) that Amtrak is pushing for a route over the grade...
Deggesty Modelcar: .....At one time in the past, I understand it had two runaway tracks. Yes, Quentin, your memory is right. My memory is not good enough to remember when it was published in Trains, but there quite an article several years back, which gave the history. While in the hospital, after surviving a runaway, an engineer came up with the idea of safety tracks--and the company listened to him. Not only were the tracks upgrade, but also they were sanded. Back when they were put into use, the engineer had to use the locomotive whistle to inform the switch tender that he had the train under control, and it was safe to line the switches for the main.
.....At one time in the past, I understand it had two runaway tracks.
Yes, Quentin, your memory is right. My memory is not good enough to remember when it was published in Trains, but there quite an article several years back, which gave the history. While in the hospital, after surviving a runaway, an engineer came up with the idea of safety tracks--and the company listened to him. Not only were the tracks upgrade, but also they were sanded. Back when they were put into use, the engineer had to use the locomotive whistle to inform the switch tender that he had the train under control, and it was safe to line the switches for the main.
See also these articles:
- Paul North.
.....Yes, Paul...I rememeber reading the 1984 article and one of the photos that I remember, was the steamer at the end of one of the run-a-way tracks with the front end buried in the sand at the track's end.
I no doubt have that issue here in one of my boxes of "Trains" mags.
zardoz Bunn19: I've heard rumors (like many others have said on here) that Amtrak is pushing for a route over the grade... If Amtrak runs a train with as many cars as the Empire Builder or California Zephyr, would they have to double the hill....?
Bunn19: I've heard rumors (like many others have said on here) that Amtrak is pushing for a route over the grade...
If Amtrak runs a train with as many cars as the Empire Builder or California Zephyr, would they have to double the hill....?
Probably not: http://youtu.be/NUPIynJq7tg?t=1m1s
Amtrak will never run a route over Saluda.
......That was awesome...!!! That took skill to no end to get that engine started on that grade with out slipping....I'd have never thought it could even start with that load, even not considering slipping.
I'd say there was a massive amount of experience from that engineer that contributed to starting that load on that "Hill"....!
The best way to get to Melrose, NC is to travel west on US 176 out of Tryon, NC. About 4 miles up the grade is a road to the left to Pearson Falls, there is a sign. About 2 miles up this road you will pass under the RR. If you look back you will see the safety track and to the left of the main you will a little gray-silver shack, This is Melrose named after the mountain top neer by. You can also get on this same road coming east out of Henderville on 176; but this road which will be on your right is not as well marked.
While looking around in the TRAINS archives; Found the following from June of 2003.
That was approximately the time that NS put the Saluda grade into 'mothballs'. Some interesting information and some of the same questions then as of recent:
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/5528.aspx?PageIndex=1
"Saluda Grade"
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