CNW SD45

[traingeek087]

Where did the Chicago and North Western SD45s come from? They have no dynamic brakes and are a unusual locomotive. All photos that I have seen date them back to the late 1970s so they must have bought them sometime then. Does anyone have any infromation on this kind of locomotive and it's builders date?
Thanks as always, traingeek087

[bnsfkline]

These units were bought new by the CNW. They are basically standared SD45's minus the Dynamic Braking grids. CNW was the only railroad to purchase SD45's with out dynamic brakes. The builders plates read EMD, But the numbers have been lost to histroy (As far as I know) I have a photo of one these units, #917. But these were not the only SD45's that the CNW bought. When the CNW gained entrance to the powder River Basin, they purchased second hand SD45's from Conrail (ex PC, nee PRR, NYC, and Ex BN (ex-GN, NP, CB&Q). As far as I know, all of the CNW SD45's have been scrapped. I hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

TrainGeek,
Achually all of them arent scrapped some of them are owned by MRL and some of 2nd hand untis brought were scrapped right away but one became a expermental model SD40CAT it was forneraly Conrail 6224. Hope this helps

DOGGY[8D][8D][8D][8D][8D]

[Anonymous]

Why would they order them without dynamic brakes?

[CShaveRR]

They ordered them without dynamic brakes because CNW never spent a penny they figured they didn't need to. Dynamic braking was, to CNW and other prairie railroads (Soo, RI, IC, and even MP) an unnecessary option, and those other railroads didn't buy SD45s.

As for numbers, CNW's own SD45s were 900-919 and 937-977.

[UPTRAIN]

Dynamics were for grades...if you don't need grades why use that option?

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by UPTRAIN

Dynamics were for grades...if you don't need grades why use that option?

let's see.....
.9% Eden Hill, WI
.75% West Allis Hill, WI
1.0% near Clinton, IA
1.2% Whitehouse Hill, WI

shall I continue?

Cheap
&
Nothing
Works

[mudchicken]

Look at the entire system and how these folks chose to run trains....Dynamics in the wrong hands are a recipe for trouble (especially in hogback country where slack action can really bite your drawbars) and expensive maintenance problems. LC???

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Question on the grades mentioned above: How long were they?

Correction on numbers: CNW SD45's were 901-920 & 937-977. 921-929 were ex CGW SD40's and 930-936 were U30C's (!)

[espeefoamer]

Seeing an SD45 without dynamic brakes for the first time is a real mind blower.They really looked strange.[:0][8D]

[CShaveRR]

Thanks for the correction on the numbers, Mr. Hegewisch! For some reason I was thinking there were ten ex-CGW SD40s (which, by the way, originally had dynamic brakes that CNW wanted nothing to do with!).

[M636C]

To add one more detail,C&NW SD45s 901 to 920 were built to order 7945 in February and March 1967, and 937 to 977 were built to order 7148 in January and February 1969.
They are shown as having 62:15 gear ratio.

Peter

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSSHEGEWISCH

Question on the grades mentioned above: How long were they?

The only one I know off-hand is West Allis Hill. It is six miles long (New Line Sub. mp2.3 [Chase] to mp 9.5 [Belton]). BTW, I know that seems longer than six miles, but the mileposts west of Chase were numbered for the Madison Sub that ran from downtown Milwaukee west thru Belton westward to Waukesha and on toward Madison.
I believe the mileposts have been renumbered since the UP takeover.

Regarding the other hills; I will get the info for you by this weekend. I need to locate my old track charts for the CNW system.

[zardoz]

Oh, yes, the old "900's". Back then, it was a treat to get the SD45's on your train. They were by far the best power the CNW had at the time. The only bad thing about them was their tendency to 'rock' quite a bit from side to side.

The cause was the deplorable condition of the track on the Wisconsin Division back then. 30mph? Wow! That was really moving! But get a SD45 on some poorly-maintained jointed rail on the Kensha Sub and it was literally "hang on to your seats, and secure all loose objects" time! There were cases where engineers put their train in emergency to stop the rocking as fast as possible, fearing that the damn thing was going to tip over!

There used to be so many 10mph slow orders on the 30mph track that some engineers just kept the train at 10 so as to not have to go through the "critical speed" range more often than they had to.

Ahhhh, those were the days.

[CShaveRR]

I guess I'm more of an oldtimer, after all...when I would get jobs on the Wisconsin (off the yard extra board, no less!), the Old line was still in pretty good shape. This, of course, was pre-Amtrak, and they still had passenger trains to run.

On the other hand, the New Line was a streak of s***. I especially remember the 200-pound rail between Valley and KO. Actually it was probably only about 112-pound rail, with at least that much more per yard in joint bars where it had broken!

And yes, I, too, have experienced SD45s bottoming out on their springs!

[traingeek087]

Hey thanks for the infromation, I'm starting to look for a model builder who has that detail on. [no dynamic brakes] If not I will have to model one.

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

Thanks for the correction on the numbers, Mr. Hegewisch! For some reason I was thinking there were ten ex-CGW SD40s (which, by the way, originally had dynamic brakes that CNW wanted nothing to do with!).

Now why would CGW have ten SD40s? [;)] They always (ALWAYS) ran 9000-hp motive power sets!!!
6x 1500hp F7s = 9000 hp
4x 2250hp GP30s = 9000 hp
3x 3000hp SD40s = 9000 hp
I think their last steam engines were 9000 hp as well!!! What a cool railroad!!!

Those C&NW SD45s sure were unique; unfortunately, no model maker makes provisions for non-dynamics, except brass of course, so plan on a little kit-bashing to get this one. By the way, I have a picture on my old home page of a CNW-original SD40 leading one of the '45s under the Clyman Junction coal tower: http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken/index-CJpic.html

-Mark
Milwaukee, WI

[Bruce Frierdich]

Hi CNW Fans,

Replying to an old post.  A few comments: CNW bought the nondynamic brake SD45s new.  In the 80's they bought quite a few SD45s second hand with dynamic brakes.  Someone with more time on their hands and interest could review the rosters and figure out what stayed and what went but I believe at least three of the original nondynamic brake SD45s went to UP along with some of the dynamic brake SD45s CNW bought second-hand.  One has to assume (although I do not know for a fact so please do not quickly correct me!) that they cannibalized some of the second-hand SD45s to get a passable version.  On the - to me - more interesting question, I am unaware of any HO manufacturer offering an SD45 without dynamic breaks until Scale Trains starting offering them recently.  Cool!  If you modeled the '80s into the '90s it would be entirely appropriate to run nondynamic brake and dynamic brake SD45s together.  I am not sure about the Walther Proto SD45s - someone who has seen them up close and personal should be able to offer guidance.  And if you have a CNW SD45 with dynamic brakes it is not a crazy hard project to convert.  Kelly Dufford had an article out there on how to modify a standard Kato model into a more correct nondynamic brake version (along with the nose bell common on so many of CNW's locomotives).  A question again for someone with time and interest, when/if CNW sold off any of their original nondynamic brake SD45s to other roads that preferred dynamic breaks, did they convert them or run them as-is.  (Perhaps all of the nondynamic break versions eventually were scrapped - IDK.) One last tid-bit, if you read up on the CNW, they (along with the Wisconsin Central if memory serves me), played around with the idea of pulling the 20 cylinder engine for the EMD 16 cylinder engine and at least in one case for a CAT 16 cylinder engine but chose instead to buy SD50s followed by SD60s and then GEs meanwhile dumping most of their older locomotives including the trove of Alcos running around in northeastern Wisconsin and the UP of Michigan.  Probably someone has way more detail than me but I find it interesting that CAT eventually bought EMD and its newest locomotives feature an engine that reflects both EMD and CAT technology.  Finally, pre-pandemic, maybe 6-8 years ago, when I was still going into my office in Chicago on the Metra Milwaukee Road West Line, I saw a string of SD45s and a couple of SD45-2s (mostly Santa Fe) but a few other roads as well, sitting in the yard at Bensenville.  No idea if they were going to a scrapper or one hopes to a second career with a regional.  And then a few days later, they were gone.