Many diffrent cars.

[bubbajustin]

I'm sorry to ask this, it might seem a little confusing, so here we go.

On a typacle freight train , mixed freight train, there of course many diffrent cars on the train, many from diffrent railroads.  Anyway say for example a NS train. That train, of course since it is a mixed freight train, can contain hoppers, boxcars, flatcar's, centrrbeam cars etc. These cars of course are from diffrent railroads like UP, CP, CN, BNSF, CSX, and private car companies etc.  how is a railroad able to use other railroads  cars?

Long Live The Railroad,   Justin

[CShaveRR]

One could get very involved in interchange and car-hire rules (the stuff is too deep for me), but all you have to do is consider the alternative. How would you ship a car across the country from one railroad to another? Unload the car and move the stuff into the next railroad's car? That would be a waste of time, energy, labor (all translating into $$$!), So we'll be efficient by making all of the cars compatible with each other, and able to go anywhere on anyone's track (with certain dimensional and weight limitations not peculiar to any specific railroad or private company). And we'll let the accounting department determine who owes whom for what.

[tree68]

Early railroads were sometimes known to build in a different gauge specifically so everything on their railroad got carried in their cars.  They usually saw the error of their ways quite quickly and changed to "standard" gauge - 56.5".

As Carl points out, the accountants take care of who-pays-what-to-whom.  But if you look at old railroad pictures, you'll invariably see all manner of road names, no matter what the home road, or where.

During a car shortage a decade or so ago, "Railbox" came to be - the motto on the side of the cars was "Next Load, Any Load," a reference to the fact that once empty, most non-special-purpose cars headed back to the home road empty, unless a load could be found that was headed in the right direction.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Justin -

You ask a seemingly simple question - and somewhat amazingly, I'm having trouble finding an appropriate Internet website to direct you to for more info.  (I know, there is a life and reality off the 'Net, but please bear with me on this.)  Surprisingly, there's nothing about it that I could find in Trains's "Railroad Reference" or "ABCs of Railroading" sections, or on the AAR website.  So for the moment the best I can suggest is to search for terms like "interchange" and "railroad equipment" or "railroad car" and see what you find.  This may be a case where the John Armstrong reference book - The Railroad - What It Is, What It Does - would be helpful. 

As CShaveRR mentioned, it's called "interchange".  The basic concept is that the Association of American Railroads (AAR) has established certain standards for the physical size and condition of the cars - wheels, couplers, brakes, labels, doors, safety equipment, etc.  Essentially all railroads have agreed that if and as long as a car coming off another railroad - even if that car is owned by yet another 3rd railroad - meets those standards, then the receiving railroad will "accept" that car in interchange, and haul it to or towards wherever it has to go, the same as that railroad's own cars. 

In return, the hauling railroad agrees to pay the owner of the car a certain fee for each day that the car is on its system - that fee is often called "car hire" or "per diem" (Latin for "per day").

When the car in unloaded, the railroad is generally supposed to return it to the owning railroad reasonably quickly - like the next available train kind of thing.  All of this - and more - is covered by the car service rules that CShaveRR also mentioned.  However, there are many, many exceptions and variations on all this.

Hope this is helpful, and that others can explain more of this, too.

- Paul North.

[trainfan1221]

Larry,

   I feel bad for having to correct you here, but the start of Railbox was quite a bit longer ago than just a decade.  I think there was a RailGon division too.  There are still cars around with the logo and slogan on them, but the name RailBox seems to have disappeared into history.

[oltmannd]

There are a few ways RRs manage their car fleet.

The most basic is where a RR loads their car on their line and it's destination is on another.  Once that car is unloaded, the other RR can move it around a bit to find a backhaul going in roughly the right direction.  There are all sorts for crazy rules that define how far is too far and how long is too long and how close is close enough.  This is the old, traditional way of doing business.

Railroad will also pool cars.  If on railroad has an auto plant and another has an unloading ramp, in order to get the business in that lane, the two railroad might form a pool with each chipping in some cars.  Pools can form for multiple lanes and between more than two roads.  This is why you may see many roads represented on multilevel trains.

Railroad also own TTX who does free running pools for them.  The Railbox and Railgon were free running pools.  You just paid TTX for the car as you use it.

TTX also will lease out cars to the RRs.  Their intermodal cars are handled this way. You lease them from TTX but you pay the whole time and you get to control them like they're your own.

The RR also have their own free running pools.  There is currently a North American box car pool where all the participants put some box cars in.  You're likely to see any of these cars on any road.  Intermodal boxes can be in pools, too.  There was the NACS container pool, that folded, and the EMP pool that's still in use, I believe.  The EMP boxes are reservable by customers who have something to ship.

Private cars are leased by shippers and then move as the shipper directs.

[ericsp]

I have the "Office Manual of the AAR Interchange Rules" (of which I have read very little). It is a very full 1.5" thick binder. 

[ericsp]

trainfan1221

Larry,

   I feel bad for having to correct you here, but the start of Railbox was quite a bit longer ago than just a decade.  I think there was a RailGon division too.  There are still cars around with the logo and slogan on them, but the name RailBox seems to have disappeared into history.

 

TTX folded Railbox and Railgon into itself, perhaps as far back as a decade ago. I first saw the TBOX boxcars in early 2002 (if I remember correctly). I would guess they were purchased post Railbox. For some reason the new TTX boxcars do not have Railbox on them, but the new TTX gondolas do have Railgon on them. They were started sometime in the 1970s. 

[inch53]

Ericsp,

I think your right for the Railbox and Railgon start up of the late 70's. I think there was a big shortage of cars after the class 1's mergers n such, since most were unusable due to age or maintenance issues and were or had been sold off.

As I remember there was also a big push about that time to get private investor involved with promise of big profits in return for investing in cars. I know of a couple 3 guys getting burned after a few years when their profits were being eaten up by storage fees.

inch

[ndbprr]

See if you can find an Official Railway Equipment Register or ORER.  they appaer on E Bay sometimes and it is published quarterly.  The railroads subscribe and throw them away so if you can find a source you can get one that way.  It is a huge yellow pages type directory that lists every railroad reporting mark and private company mark.  It lists every railroad and every freight car they own, dimensions and usage as well as where their offices are, personnel and where interchanges with other railroads are located.  Then it lists every AAR car type designation and goes into rate making.  As stated very complex.  In essence you try to keep your car on your rails for the longest portion if you originate it.  So if your railroad went from Chicago to New Orleans and back to Kansas City you would route the car that way rather than give it to BNSF in Chicago who would have it there in half the time.  They would just get the local delivery charge.  That being said you would only bill mileage for the shortest route.  then the receiver has a set time to unload.  After that he pays a daily fee called demurrage for tieing up the car.  Now if you have shortage of cars you may confiscate that railroads car to haul somethig else that exceeds the cost of having it on your property. With the economy the way it is today I'd be willing to bet a lot of priority trains are getting those cars off the property as fast as possible. 

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

tree68

[snip] During a car shortage a decade or so ago, "Railbox" came to be - the motto on the side of the cars was "Next Load, Any Load," a reference to the fact that once empty, most non-special-purpose cars headed back to the home road empty, unless a load could be found that was headed in the right direction. [emphasis added - PDN]

Just to add a little bit - some cars used to have a reminder stencilled on them "Load Towards Home Road", supposedly to encourage the railroad that had the cars when they became empty to "do the right thing" instead of using the cars for their own purposes.  It would have been OK to use the cars for a load that was headed in the car-owning railroad's direction - not OK to use the cars for a load headed the other way, for example.

Not to be picky - but to avoid confusion - the 1970s RailBox stencil and motto that Larry references (above) was actually "Next Load, Any Road".  As a "pool" operation by TTX, those cars were exempt from the "Load Towards Home Road" rule, and so could be loaded with a load that was headed in any direction, not just back to where they came from - or more accurately, towards the railroad that owned them..

Whether that relaxation actually improved car availablility or utilization, I do not know.  Trains columnist John G. Kneiling didn't like it - he thought the rule ought to be "Return the cars to the owning railroad at an average speed of at least 6 MPH", so that those railroads that bought cars actually had the benefit of the use of the cars, instead of just trying to collect the per diem car hire rentals.

For what it's worth.

- Paul North.

[tree68]

Paul_D_North_Jr

Not to be picky - but to avoid confusion - the 1970s RailBox stencil and motto that Larry references (above) was actually "Next Load, Any Road". 

Oops - I knew that.  I'll have to have a talk with my proofreader.

Thanks  for catching it.  

[nody]

Another problem is just physically keeping track of the cars. They always talk about putting sattellite tracing devices on them, and I'm sure some have them, but most don't.

There is a KCS siding near my home that has dozens of brand new hoppers that have been sitting at least six months. I know times are slow and they have to park them somewhere, but one starts to wonder if they forgot about them.

 When I was an OTR trucker, I'd occassionally find my company's trailers sitting burried in the back of a customer's drop lot. I'd send a message to my dispatcher over the qualcomm asking if he knew that trailer xxxx was sitting at so-and-so's lot. He'd ususally reply, "No". I'd ask, "are you going to do anything about it?" "No".

[bubbajustin]

Ok I understand now. The railroad's just let's their car's go all over the country to avoid trasferring freight and thus confusoin. Thank's guy's

[tree68]

trainfan1221

I feel bad for having to correct you here, but the start of Railbox was quite a bit longer ago than just a decade.

Hence the "or so..."

Now that I think of it, I've got a picture someplace that I took back in the early 80's of a bunch of them being stored at the yard here....

[CShaveRR]

The first Railbox cars came out in late 1974 and early 1975. Railgons came out in about 1980 (I remember being excited at the prospect, and my older daughter, age two at the time, zinged me by yelling out "Railgon" when reading the logos she knew off a string of cars. Had high-fives been in vogue then, I'm sure Pat and Ellen would have done one, once they realized I'd regained control of the car.).

[ericsp]

nody

Another problem is just physically keeping track of the cars. They always talk about putting sattellite tracing devices on them, and I'm sure some have them, but most don't.

 

Newer, and recently modified, reefers have satellite communications ability so that the conditions can be monitored and settings changed. All cars have RFID (if I remember correctly) tags on them that are read by a network of scanners (I am not sure that is the correct name). That is called Automatic Equipment Identification (AEI).

[Victrola1]

If memory serves me, I remember reading the imbalance in the supply freight cars caused the federal government to take control of the Railroads in WWI. The ideal was to reload freight cars and send them west to the line owning the cars. Management stuck to the ideal in an surreal situation.

The war created a heavy flow to the east coast for war consumption in Europe. This was further complicated by Europe exporting little, if anything, to back haul inland. The yards along the east coast were jammed with empties while material inland needed for the war sat for a lack of cars.

In Dec. of 1917, Woodrow Wilson created the U. S. Railroad Administration to in effect nationalize the railroads. The car imbalance was one of the problems given for the action.

The end of the war ended the USRA. The debated over car supply continued in the political arena. References are seen of political leaders being questioned on what could be done about rail car supply in the 1920's. Usually, it was related to the grain harvest that then traveled in box cars. 

With the I. C. C. now history, does the government still get involved in rail car supply issues? If so, to what extent.