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A new order of ES44ACs for Canadian Pacific?

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A new order of ES44ACs for Canadian Pacific?
Posted by Mikeymbca on Saturday, December 6, 2008 9:35 PM

I was looking at CP's 2008 Safety Handbook and something caught my eye. On the front cover, they have a photo of 2 ES44ACs pulling a potash train through the Rockies. What really tweaked my interest was the fact that the lead loco is numbered 2005 and has high numberboards and a golden beaver logo. The second loco also has a beaver logo. You can tell that they're GEVO units by the radiator sections, and CP never had any AC4400s with high numberboards, anyway.

Does anyone out there know if CP ordered more GEVOs after 8899? And why they would be equipped with high boards and beaver logos? Or is this more likely a photoshopped CN unit?

Canadian Pacific..... The real "Big Red Machine"........
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Posted by Mikeymbca on Saturday, December 6, 2008 9:39 PM

Upon further consideration, it's not likely that this is a shopped CN unit, since it doesn't have the "teardrop" windshields.

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Posted by MJChittick on Saturday, December 6, 2008 11:56 PM

According to the CP roster in "The Diesel Shop", the last ES44AC is #8899.  Furthermore, there is no unit #2005 in that roster.

Mike

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Sunday, December 7, 2008 1:17 AM

Hi, Mikey, I'm a big CP fan too. 

The above photo of the engines pulling potash is almost certainly a posed publicity photo.  (I am trying to decide whether to call it "Fun With a Wide-Angle Lens" or "Freud, Schmoid, I Just Like Trains").  

I have seen that photo in several CP releases:  at least one annual report I recall, and the (this may not be the precise title)  "Citizens Responsibility Report"  or similar words (I mean, CP's responsibility to the citizens); also something else I can't recall. 

How difficult is it to change numberboards?  I don't know how "permanent" they are meant to be.  Obviously the "painted" number on the engine can be taped or decal'ed, and in this case I don't know how far back on the side of the engine it has been placed.

That was almost sneaky, keeping the beavers eager on it.  Other, newer purchases haven't been so fortunate and lack the decal. 

Surely CP is too efficient an entity to keep a couple of locos just to have something pretty.  I also think it's quite possible that "2005" refers to the year of that photo's release, or possibly the Annual Report in which the photo ran.  (And I didn't keep my hardcopy--dang it!).  Perhaps that GEVO is pulling revenue service as one of the higher-numbered series.

Did I help any?  -  al s.  ("al-in-chgo"). 

 

al-in-chgo
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Posted by b4cprail on Sunday, December 7, 2008 3:56 AM

This is strictly some paint programme. The photo in it's original form can be found on the GE Transportation

website at http://www.getransportation.com/na/en/evolution.html , on page 16 of the GEVO brochure.

Or go there directly http://tinyurl.com/55szzd

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Posted by CPRail modeler on Sunday, December 7, 2008 11:33 AM

Although CP isn't getting new ES44AC's, there were some rumors about them getting some SD70ACe's, as they were recently demonstrated in March 2008.

http://www.mountainrailway.com/Demonstrators%20Page.htm  (scroll to bottom)

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Posted by trainfan1221 on Sunday, December 7, 2008 8:16 PM

My guess was also that 2005 represented the year, not the first time something like that has been done.

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Posted by Lyon_Wonder on Sunday, December 7, 2008 10:15 PM
When was the last time CP bought new EMDs?  Any EMDs newer than the SD40-2F cowls on CP's roster?  I know that their US subsidiary SOO bought SD60/60Ms in the late 80s/early 90s.  It seems that CP is mostly a GE railroad these days.
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Posted by MJChittick on Monday, December 8, 2008 12:01 AM

Lyon_Wonder
When was the last time CP bought new EMDs?  Any EMDs newer than the SD40-2F cowls on CP's roster?  I know that their US subsidiary SOO bought SD60/60Ms in the late 80s/early 90s.  It seems that CP is mostly a GE railroad these days.

 

I think you forgot about the 60 SD9043MACs.  They also still have the 4 stored SD90MAC-IIs.

Mike

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Posted by beaulieu on Monday, December 8, 2008 10:05 AM

MJChittick

 

I think you forgot about the 60 SD9043MACs.  They also still have the 4 stored SD90MAC-IIs.

 

 

Its 61 SD90MACs  (with the 4300hp engine). The 4 SD90MAC-Hs have now been officially retired and are for disposition, having just 4 of the 6000hp. version makes it uneconomic to do anything else with them.

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Posted by Mikeymbca on Monday, December 8, 2008 10:58 AM

I think one of the main reasons that CP has purchased GE units exclusively from 1999 to present is the fact that they have contracted all of their maintenance out to GE, including maintenance on older EMD units like the GP38-2s and the SD40-2s. All the work is being done (apparently) in CP's various shops, by CP employees, but the work is billed through GE and GE pays the employees. GE also owns and manages CP's parts supply, so it makes a lot of sense that CP would primarily own GE units. I believe that their service contract expires in 2009.

CP has bought AC units exclusively since 1995, 647 of which were GE units and 65 of which were EMD. Very close to a 10:1 ratio. Not one of the units purchased after 1999 have been EMD units.

 I did see the two BNSF units that they were running for a time this spring. They had a pair of SD70ACes running back and forth between Winnipeg and Sutherland for several weeks. Got some pretty good pictures, too. ;))

Canadian Pacific..... The real "Big Red Machine"........
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Posted by zardoz on Monday, December 8, 2008 11:14 AM

Gee, you'd think they'd at least turn on the headlights for a more dramatic photo; although considering how they used the image despite the wide-angle distortion.......

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Posted by b4cprail on Monday, December 8, 2008 6:08 PM

You may be mistaken, EMD has the maintenance contract in Toronto and I believe

maintain the SD90MACs in Winnipeg. CP has gone to GE because they have a superior

AC product, when CP likes a product they stick with it. The big inducement for buying

the SD90s was that CP built most of them at Ogden in Calgary (9112-9160). As for

exclusively buying AC units since 1999, you forgot the seven NRE GP38-2 units bought

in 2005 (4520-4526).

Mikeymbca

I think one of the main reasons that CP has purchased GE units exclusively from 1999 to present is the fact that they have contracted all of their maintenance out to GE, including maintenance on older EMD units like the GP38-2s and the SD40-2s. All the work is being done (apparently) in CP's various shops, by CP employees, but the work is billed through GE and GE pays the employees. GE also owns and manages CP's parts supply, so it makes a lot of sense that CP would primarily own GE units. I believe that their service contract expires in 2009.

CP has bought AC units exclusively since 1995, 647 of which were GE units and 65 of which were EMD. Very close to a 10:1 ratio. Not one of the units purchased after 1999 have been EMD units.

 I did see the two BNSF units that they were running for a time this spring. They had a pair of SD70ACes running back and forth between Winnipeg and Sutherland for several weeks. Got some pretty good pictures, too. ;))

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Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 12:51 AM

I am surprised that no one seemed to suggest what appears to be a more obvious fact; the CP photo is a product of Photo Shoping of the GE Gevo AD.

 

 


 

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Posted by cx500 on Tuesday, December 9, 2008 4:06 PM

 That locomotive is a product of photoshop or similar digital manipulation, and the number refers to the year the image was created.  The location is based on "Morant's Curve", a few miles east of Lake Louise, Alberta, but the background mountains have been moved around a bit too.

On the other thread, for CP a great benefit of the GE product over the EMD is that the GEs have separate inverters for each axle.  So, if there is a problem, you will lose 16% of the pulling power of that locomotive.  The EMD equivalent has one for each truck, so now you lose 50%.  With three units and close to maximum tonnage on a mountain grade you might still make the summit with one axle not pulling, but will almost certainly stall if you have to cut out an entire truck.  CP's practice is to max out the tonnage on the bulk trains (coal, grain, potash, sulphur) and slowly grind up the ruling grades.  Unlike DC, the AC traction motors are able to withstand this abuse.

 

John

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Posted by Mikeymbca on Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:38 AM

b4cprail

You may be mistaken, EMD has the maintenance contract in Toronto and I believe

maintain the SD90MACs in Winnipeg. CP has gone to GE because they have a superior

AC product, when CP likes a product they stick with it. The big inducement for buying

the SD90s was that CP built most of them at Ogden in Calgary (9112-9160). As for

exclusively buying AC units since 1999, you forgot the seven NRE GP38-2 units bought

in 2005 (4520-4526).

My understanding (and i may be wrong, it's happened before) is that the 90MACs maintained out of Winnipeg are billed through GE's books. I couldn't say for sure, since I'm an outsider looking in.

As far as the NRE units, I guess it would have been better for me to say that CP hasn't purchased any NEW EMD units since '99.

Regards,

Mike

Canadian Pacific..... The real "Big Red Machine"........

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