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What U.S. Rail Line Would You Revive?

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Posted by videomaker on Friday, November 14, 2008 4:50 PM

MisterPleasant

I like the idea of resurrecting the Wells NV/Twin Falls ID UP line already mentioned here.  There is something about the remote linkage out in the middle of nowhere that is very appealing.

The KCMO would be a useless but fascinating revival.  I could once again watch a long train of wheat hoppers in Orienta, Oklahoma, with the buttes of the Glass Mountains in the distance.

The Midland Valley would be near the top of my list.  Now that the bison are back at the Tall Grass prairie, one could photograph those enormous beasts next to the tracks while a Wichita - Fort Smith train glides past.

But my top wish would be for restoration of the old Frisco Kiamichi line, winding through the rugged mountains of SE Oklahoma.
 

The Kiamichi is still around,I went to Hugo last spring and took a few pix at the Old Frisco Museum..Didnt see but one train tho,look like local or intercity job..

Danny
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Posted by BNSF_GP60M on Friday, November 14, 2008 4:44 PM

Some local lines I would like to see here in Central California would be restoring SP's West Side line. Most of the line is intact but the middle the is I believe a 35 mile gap. Also maybe Santa Fe's east valley line that had ran through Visalia. The Santa fe line would probably not me worth it but if you were running a through freight you could bypass Hanford and rejoin the main line on the north side of Calwa Yard.

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Posted by rrnut282 on Friday, November 14, 2008 4:40 PM

ValleyX

The C&O of Indiana got abandoned because of heavy grades and clearances.

Could the E-L, in conjunction with the Kankakee Belt, work well as a bypass around Chicago? 

B&O west of Parkersburg was a financial and clearances decision.  Today, I'm sure they wish they hadn't hurried.

Revive the NKP from Arcadia to the Indiana state line, it's all still there but R. J. Corman has it west of Lima and the NS is using it as a storage lot west of the state line to Portland, IN.  Still think that was an NS "Hurry up and get rid of it", shortsighted decision.

IIRC, the clearance problems on the C&O were bridges in Richmond and Muncie that no longer serve rail.  As part of the revival the grades could be lessened.

I'd like to see the NKP revived, too, but is there any traffic other than the ethanol plant in Portland?

Mike (2-8-2)
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Posted by wjstix on Friday, November 14, 2008 9:51 AM

Well the rail line I grew up along side was revised (kinda sorta) a few years ago. The Minneapolis Northfield and Southern became part of the Soo Line, which became part of Canadian Pacific. Eventually the line was leased to Progressive Rail, who uses several ex-MNS engines in a paint scheme almost identical to the old MN&S blue and silver...they even have some engines with Hancock air whistles like the old MN&S used!!

Stix
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Posted by MisterPleasant on Friday, November 14, 2008 12:22 AM

Hey Northtowne, I grew up in Enid, so the SE corner of Oklahoma was a bit out of my stomping grounds.  But I have visited the Kiamichi/Winding Stair Mountain area many times, and only wish that I had been a railfan in my younger years.   All of my Frisco watching came from the junction in Enid where the Avard and Winfield lines crossed.  Nothing like the current BNSF transcons on the rejuvenated Avard line.  But yes I would guess that Frisco put in quite an effort to build that line south from Talihina. Those mountains are rugged.

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Posted by fafnir242 on Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:26 PM

WIAR

I vote for the Erie Lackawanna - their colors, diamond logo, the whole deal.  With their wide ROW and route that bypassed some of the bigger points of congestion between Chicago and the east coast, they'd be perfect for high-speed intermodal.

 

Seconded!!!
 

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Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:22 PM

henry6
Rebuild Erie-Lackawanna and the Milwaukee Road as a Transcon

 

I too have read more than once the Milwaukee across the Rockies was one of the better engineered routes.  Too bad some of these well accepted ROW's were lost.  Money and timing...just not at the time that it might have had a better future.

Quentin

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Posted by Kootenay Central on Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:04 PM

.

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Posted by Northtowne on Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:18 PM

RI Choctaw line, simply because I grew up where it crossed the Katy in McAlester, OK. In yesteryear, you could stand at Main and Choctaw streets (which is in the middle of downtown) and see a parade of trains all day long. No economic reasons to give, although the merits thereof have been much talked about of late.

MisterPleasant, did you live on SE Oklahoma? The Frisco Kiamichi ran in front of my brothers farm (he still lives there) 10 miles SW of Clayton, OK. Much of the roadbed is still visible. There was a wye on top of a hill North of Talihana, OK that was used to turn around pushers needed to get trains over a steep grade mountain (can't recall the name of the mountain). I intend one day to look for signs of that wye if possible. Knowing a little about the terrain I would like to see how they put it on top of one of those mountains. Must have had to level off a good area.

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Posted by piouslion1 on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 7:45 PM

henry6

Murray

Rebuild Erie-Lackawanna and the Milwaukee Road as a Transcon.

Ingenious!  However too good an idea to be taken seriously.

I can see that. Electrify the thing while you are at it and make a major score for oil independence (I do like those last two words)

PL

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Posted by gopherstate on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:31 PM

Because of strictly sentimental reasons I have to say the ICG line between Sioux Falls SD and Cherokee IA.  Having grown up along this line, I can see no other choice.  Of course economically there would be absolutely no reason to retain or restore this line.  Oh well, nice to dream.

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:00 PM

I vote for the Erie Lackawanna - their colors, diamond logo, the whole deal.  With their wide ROW and route that bypassed some of the bigger points of congestion between Chicago and the east coast, they'd be perfect for high-speed intermodal.

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Posted by henry6 on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 12:39 PM

yippinyahoo

henry6

In the Northeast there is lots of room for redevelopment.  The EL lines from NJ west then the LV line from Waverly, NY to Buffalo would utilize two great routes thrown aside by CR (LV best route from Southern Tier of NY to  Buffalo, EL route west from Hornel circumvents Buffalo congestion and winter snows.

 

 

Ahh, having grown up in Salamanca NY (a former division point on the Erie / EL), I can attest - yea testify! - that you would not bypass winter snows anywhere in SW New York!  Smile

 

Love the idea, though!  The ghosts of the EL are thick in those parts

 

Yes, but you theoretically would not have the choking interchange, etc.of yards and yarding you have in Buffalo.  Hopefully the E line would be able to be kept swept clear if not by traffic then by plow.  It is difficult to keep one yard plowed much less several in one location.

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Posted by yippinyahoo on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 12:15 PM

henry6

In the Northeast there is lots of room for redevelopment.  The EL lines from NJ west then the LV line from Waverly, NY to Buffalo would utilize two great routes thrown aside by CR (LV best route from Southern Tier of NY to  Buffalo, EL route west from Hornel circumvents Buffalo congestion and winter snows.

 

 

Ahh, having grown up in Salamanca NY (a former division point on the Erie / EL), I can attest - yea testify! - that you would not bypass winter snows anywhere in SW New York!  Smile

 

Love the idea, though!  The ghosts of the EL are thick in those parts

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Posted by henry6 on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 7:34 AM

Kevin C. Smith

Trains magazine ran a column many years ago (30?) called the "Professional Iconoclast" who, among other things, advocated using both the Erie and the MILW as the basis for a transcontinental container route. The great advantage he saw to them was their lack of branchlines to minimize interference with/from other traffic. Almost makes today's capacity problems the deja' vu.

 Sort of lack of branch lines.  But more importantly the high and wide clearances and missing many major cities' bottlenecks and congestion.  And MLW being a last built to the Pacific benefited from more advanced engineering than those lines built in the 19th Century despite its routing..

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Posted by ValleyX on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 6:10 AM

The C&O of Indiana got abandoned because of heavy grades and clearances.

Could the E-L, in conjunction with the Kankakee Belt, work well as a bypass around Chicago? 

B&O west of Parkersburg was a financial and clearances decision.  Today, I'm sure they wish they hadn't hurried.

Revive the NKP from Arcadia to the Indiana state line, it's all still there but R. J. Corman has it west of Lima and the NS is using it as a storage lot west of the state line to Portland, IN.  Still think that was an NS "Hurry up and get rid of it", shortsighted decision.

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Posted by Kevin C. Smith on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 12:05 AM

Trains magazine ran a column many years ago (30?) called the "Professional Iconoclast" who, among other things, advocated using both the Erie and the MILW as the basis for a transcontinental container route. The great advantage he saw to them was their lack of branchlines to minimize interference with/from other traffic. Almost makes today's capacity problems the deja' vu.

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Posted by CShaveRR on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 8:59 PM

henry6
Murray
Rebuild Erie-Lackawanna and the Milwaukee Road as a Transcon.

Ingenious!  However too good an idea to be taken seriously.

I've heard this somewhere before.  Seriously, I got a case of deja vu when I read it.  I wish I knew more about where I heard this idea (probably before the lines were abandoned).

Carl

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Posted by henry6 on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:02 PM

Murray

Rebuild Erie-Lackawanna and the Milwaukee Road as a Transcon.

Ingenius!  However too good an idea to be taken seriously.

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Posted by Lovemyf7 on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:55 PM

 D&RGS all the way up to Grand Junction and down to Silverton, with spurs up to the top of the Grand Mesa ( for those of you who do not know it is the largest flat top mesa in the WORLD. also this colorado for you eastern folk. it is the other C state along with Connecticut. ) ok where were we? Oh yes also spurs up to Rifle, glenwood springs and spurs running out to, Paradox and Paonia.

Oh one more thing some of those lines are not real like the spurs but the mainline is acurate as far as i know.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:53 PM

Rebuild Erie-Lackawanna and the Milwaukee Road as a Transcon.

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Posted by martin.knoepfel on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:38 PM

 Rebuildung the Erie would improve competition in the North-East. Good idea, IMHO

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:06 PM

MP173
I would travel to Colorado to see train on Tennessee Pass.

You might want to consider coming to Colorado to travel Tennessee pass before they put trains back on it.

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Posted by Los Angeles Rams Guy on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 12:55 PM

I'd like to see the MILW's mainline between Green Island and Council Bluffs revived plus the branch connecting Paralta (just east of Marion) with Jackson Junction (just west of Calmar) that went through my hometown of Edgewood, IA.   

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Posted by rrnut282 on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:14 AM

I'd like to to see the Erie Lakawana rebuilt East out of Chicago.  When it was built it already had the clearances needed for double-stacks and it avoids congestion (and compounding delays) by travelling through smaller cities along the way.

Another good candidate is the C&O from Cincinatti to Chicago.  It would short-cut CSX's current route up through Deshler on those crowded lines.  One side benefit is the C&O and Erie share R/W in NW Indiana so you get two for one.

Mike (2-8-2)
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Posted by henry6 on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 8:47 AM

In the Northeast there is lots of room for redevelopment.  The EL lines from NJ west then the LV line from Waverly, NY to Buffalo would utilize two great routes thrown aside by CR (LV best route from Southern Tier of NY to  Buffalo, EL route west from Hornel circumvents Buffalo congestion and winter snows. As a further note, the LV line is virtyally intact if greatly downgraded from Oak Island, NJ to Waverly, NY in the hands of regional and shortlines west of Allentown, PA).  The CNJ route across NJ, abandoned by CR and NJT when I78 was built...this line could help alleviate bottleneck congestion.  Of course the DL&W across NJ and the Poconos is being rejuvinated for passenger service, Scranton to Binghamton, NY intact under CP ownership; and the former Erie Delaware Div. from Port Jervis to Bingahmton, NY under the ownership of NS but leased to Central New York Railirad of the Delaware Otsego System with New York, Susquehanna and Western Rairoad operating it at minimum through service (Morristown and Erie is now operator of  branch from Lackawaxen to Honesdale, PA working to increase traffic, thus increase interchange with ? Susquehanna? CNY? NS?  Wonder if the NY and Harlem would be worth rejuvinating north of Wassaic on to Chatham and into Albany...commuter route, back up to Hudson line traffic problems for  Amtrak but also for MNRR in some ways (or instead of Albany, east to Housatonic RR and south to Danbury for MNRR regional operations?)  Up downeast, Portland, Me to Conway, NH then on to Canada on the former MC Mountian Div. could open Portland port to more traffic.  After all that is said and done, how about returning the second, third, and fourth tracks to service along the former NYC, PRR, B&O, LV, EL, etc. mains in use to increase the capacity which is forecast over the next 25 to 75 years!

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Posted by CSXDixieLine on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 8:45 AM

blue streak 1

I would like to see a discussion of new routes that are needed to mitigate weather exposure. One is an alternative to the runs through New Orleans. Another is the exposure of CSX in the Charleston - Savannah -Jacksonville corridor.Another is NYP - Bos. Another is the need for a flood proof routes through the midwest. 

Isn't that like saying every business in New Orleans or the southern Atlantic coast needs an alternate location in the midwest that they can evacuate to when a storm comes through? While weather related disruptions can be huge, it seems like the costs of maintaining new alternate routes would be much, much greater than any relatively infrequent catastrophic events. These alternate routes would basically be excess capacity during the other 99% of the time when there is not a weather disruption. Plus the cost of just constructing these new routes would probably exceed the losses of decades of weather related issues, so you would be looking at a long, long time before these new routes would be cost effective. Jamie

EDIT: Besides, my desire for CSX to resurrect the ATL-BHM line is strictly from a railfan perspective since I would love to see big time mainline trains along that line that I never got a chance to see.

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Posted by gabe on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 8:26 AM

greyhounds

Probably the most useful railroad that was lost was the Chicago, North Shore & Milwuakee.

You could get on a train running the Chicago Loop (Downtown elevated trains for those of you in Rio LInda) and go to Kenosha, Racine, and into downtown Milwaukee.  Some of those trains even had a bar/grill car on the Chicago "L".

Finish your business day, then go home on electric high speed trains while enjoying martinis and burgers. (In 1962 such things were acceptable.)  In contrast, to drive I-94/I-294 in a Chicago snow storm is to know terror.

The North Shore lasted until 1963.

Darn!  You took mine.  In terms of economically viable and needed, this has got to be in everyone's top three, if not the undisputed king.  I assume this line never hauled significant freight like the South Shore?

My second vote would be the Rock Island line into Memphis.  Some people on here say it is not now needed by BNSF, but I have heard several industry people saying BNSF is kicking themselves for not acquiring it when they had the chance.  Thus, I think it would also be economically viable.

Finally, Ed's IC line to Evansville.  Ed and I have a running discussion as to whether it would be viable today . . . and I would like to win that bet . . . .

Gabe

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 8:22 AM

Looking at the economics of various restorations gives a completely different picture. The Atlanta - Birmingham silver comet trail was not time or grade competetive with NS's. It would be better to double track NS's line by CSX with a joint use agreement. That would speed up Atlanta - BHM intermodal. . The silver comet abandoment was done without any idea of the traffic that CSX now runs from Atlanta to Birmingham. At least 8 CSX round trips a day (3 - 5 intermodal). Another CSX loss is the Raleigh - Petersburg, Va. SAL which may already slated for rebuild by the HSR proposal. Richmond - Hamlet ACL is very congested and is the main delay point for AMTRAK Florida service.The B&O line from Parkersburg - Cincinatti - St. Louis might be another for speedier intermodal.

I would like to see a discussion of new routes that are needed to mitigate weather exposure. One is an alternative to the runs through New Orleans. Another is the exposure of CSX in the Charleston - Savannah -Jacksonville corridor.Another is NYP - Bos. Another is the need for a flood proof routes through the midwest. 

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Posted by zardoz on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:48 AM

greyhounds

Probably the most useful railroad that was lost was the Chicago, North Shore & Milwuakee.

Finish your business day, then go home on electric high speed trains while enjoying martinis and burgers. (In 1962 such things were acceptable.)  In contrast, to drive I-94/I-294 in a Chicago snow storm is to know terror.

Agreed!  And also agree with the other posters regarding the Tenneesse Pass.

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