Kevin C. Smith Trains magazine ran a column many years ago (30?) called the "Professional Iconoclast" who, among other things, advocated using both the Erie and the MILW as the basis for a transcontinental container route. The great advantage he saw to them was their lack of branchlines to minimize interference with/from other traffic. Almost makes today's capacity problems the deja' vu.
Trains magazine ran a column many years ago (30?) called the "Professional Iconoclast" who, among other things, advocated using both the Erie and the MILW as the basis for a transcontinental container route. The great advantage he saw to them was their lack of branchlines to minimize interference with/from other traffic. Almost makes today's capacity problems the deja' vu.
Sort of lack of branch lines. But more importantly the high and wide clearances and missing many major cities' bottlenecks and congestion. And MLW being a last built to the Pacific benefited from more advanced engineering than those lines built in the 19th Century despite its routing..
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henry6In the Northeast there is lots of room for redevelopment. The EL lines from NJ west then the LV line from Waverly, NY to Buffalo would utilize two great routes thrown aside by CR (LV best route from Southern Tier of NY to Buffalo, EL route west from Hornel circumvents Buffalo congestion and winter snows.
In the Northeast there is lots of room for redevelopment. The EL lines from NJ west then the LV line from Waverly, NY to Buffalo would utilize two great routes thrown aside by CR (LV best route from Southern Tier of NY to Buffalo, EL route west from Hornel circumvents Buffalo congestion and winter snows.
Ahh, having grown up in Salamanca NY (a former division point on the Erie / EL), I can attest - yea testify! - that you would not bypass winter snows anywhere in SW New York!
Love the idea, though! The ghosts of the EL are thick in those parts
yippinyahoo henry6 In the Northeast there is lots of room for redevelopment. The EL lines from NJ west then the LV line from Waverly, NY to Buffalo would utilize two great routes thrown aside by CR (LV best route from Southern Tier of NY to Buffalo, EL route west from Hornel circumvents Buffalo congestion and winter snows. Ahh, having grown up in Salamanca NY (a former division point on the Erie / EL), I can attest - yea testify! - that you would not bypass winter snows anywhere in SW New York! Love the idea, though! The ghosts of the EL are thick in those parts
henry6 In the Northeast there is lots of room for redevelopment. The EL lines from NJ west then the LV line from Waverly, NY to Buffalo would utilize two great routes thrown aside by CR (LV best route from Southern Tier of NY to Buffalo, EL route west from Hornel circumvents Buffalo congestion and winter snows.
Yes, but you theoretically would not have the choking interchange, etc.of yards and yarding you have in Buffalo. Hopefully the E line would be able to be kept swept clear if not by traffic then by plow. It is difficult to keep one yard plowed much less several in one location.
I vote for the Erie Lackawanna - their colors, diamond logo, the whole deal. With their wide ROW and route that bypassed some of the bigger points of congestion between Chicago and the east coast, they'd be perfect for high-speed intermodal.
Because of strictly sentimental reasons I have to say the ICG line between Sioux Falls SD and Cherokee IA. Having grown up along this line, I can see no other choice. Of course economically there would be absolutely no reason to retain or restore this line. Oh well, nice to dream.
henry6 Murray Rebuild Erie-Lackawanna and the Milwaukee Road as a Transcon. Ingenious! However too good an idea to be taken seriously.
Murray Rebuild Erie-Lackawanna and the Milwaukee Road as a Transcon.
Rebuild Erie-Lackawanna and the Milwaukee Road as a Transcon.
Ingenious! However too good an idea to be taken seriously.
I can see that. Electrify the thing while you are at it and make a major score for oil independence (I do like those last two words)
PL
RI Choctaw line, simply because I grew up where it crossed the Katy in McAlester, OK. In yesteryear, you could stand at Main and Choctaw streets (which is in the middle of downtown) and see a parade of trains all day long. No economic reasons to give, although the merits thereof have been much talked about of late.
MisterPleasant, did you live on SE Oklahoma? The Frisco Kiamichi ran in front of my brothers farm (he still lives there) 10 miles SW of Clayton, OK. Much of the roadbed is still visible. There was a wye on top of a hill North of Talihana, OK that was used to turn around pushers needed to get trains over a steep grade mountain (can't recall the name of the mountain). I intend one day to look for signs of that wye if possible. Knowing a little about the terrain I would like to see how they put it on top of one of those mountains. Must have had to level off a good area.
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henry6Rebuild Erie-Lackawanna and the Milwaukee Road as a Transcon
I too have read more than once the Milwaukee across the Rockies was one of the better engineered routes. Too bad some of these well accepted ROW's were lost. Money and timing...just not at the time that it might have had a better future.
Quentin
WIARI vote for the Erie Lackawanna - their colors, diamond logo, the whole deal. With their wide ROW and route that bypassed some of the bigger points of congestion between Chicago and the east coast, they'd be perfect for high-speed intermodal.
Seconded!!!
Hey Northtowne, I grew up in Enid, so the SE corner of Oklahoma was a bit out of my stomping grounds. But I have visited the Kiamichi/Winding Stair Mountain area many times, and only wish that I had been a railfan in my younger years. All of my Frisco watching came from the junction in Enid where the Avard and Winfield lines crossed. Nothing like the current BNSF transcons on the rejuvenated Avard line. But yes I would guess that Frisco put in quite an effort to build that line south from Talihina. Those mountains are rugged.
Well the rail line I grew up along side was revised (kinda sorta) a few years ago. The Minneapolis Northfield and Southern became part of the Soo Line, which became part of Canadian Pacific. Eventually the line was leased to Progressive Rail, who uses several ex-MNS engines in a paint scheme almost identical to the old MN&S blue and silver...they even have some engines with Hancock air whistles like the old MN&S used!!
ValleyX The C&O of Indiana got abandoned because of heavy grades and clearances. Could the E-L, in conjunction with the Kankakee Belt, work well as a bypass around Chicago? B&O west of Parkersburg was a financial and clearances decision. Today, I'm sure they wish they hadn't hurried. Revive the NKP from Arcadia to the Indiana state line, it's all still there but R. J. Corman has it west of Lima and the NS is using it as a storage lot west of the state line to Portland, IN. Still think that was an NS "Hurry up and get rid of it", shortsighted decision.
The C&O of Indiana got abandoned because of heavy grades and clearances.
Could the E-L, in conjunction with the Kankakee Belt, work well as a bypass around Chicago?
B&O west of Parkersburg was a financial and clearances decision. Today, I'm sure they wish they hadn't hurried.
Revive the NKP from Arcadia to the Indiana state line, it's all still there but R. J. Corman has it west of Lima and the NS is using it as a storage lot west of the state line to Portland, IN. Still think that was an NS "Hurry up and get rid of it", shortsighted decision.
IIRC, the clearance problems on the C&O were bridges in Richmond and Muncie that no longer serve rail. As part of the revival the grades could be lessened.
I'd like to see the NKP revived, too, but is there any traffic other than the ethanol plant in Portland?
Some local lines I would like to see here in Central California would be restoring SP's West Side line. Most of the line is intact but the middle the is I believe a 35 mile gap. Also maybe Santa Fe's east valley line that had ran through Visalia. The Santa fe line would probably not me worth it but if you were running a through freight you could bypass Hanford and rejoin the main line on the north side of Calwa Yard.
MisterPleasant I like the idea of resurrecting the Wells NV/Twin Falls ID UP line already mentioned here. There is something about the remote linkage out in the middle of nowhere that is very appealing. The KCMO would be a useless but fascinating revival. I could once again watch a long train of wheat hoppers in Orienta, Oklahoma, with the buttes of the Glass Mountains in the distance. The Midland Valley would be near the top of my list. Now that the bison are back at the Tall Grass prairie, one could photograph those enormous beasts next to the tracks while a Wichita - Fort Smith train glides past.But my top wish would be for restoration of the old Frisco Kiamichi line, winding through the rugged mountains of SE Oklahoma.
I like the idea of resurrecting the Wells NV/Twin Falls ID UP line already mentioned here. There is something about the remote linkage out in the middle of nowhere that is very appealing.
The KCMO would be a useless but fascinating revival. I could once again watch a long train of wheat hoppers in Orienta, Oklahoma, with the buttes of the Glass Mountains in the distance.
The Midland Valley would be near the top of my list. Now that the bison are back at the Tall Grass prairie, one could photograph those enormous beasts next to the tracks while a Wichita - Fort Smith train glides past.But my top wish would be for restoration of the old Frisco Kiamichi line, winding through the rugged mountains of SE Oklahoma.
The Kiamichi is still around,I went to Hugo last spring and took a few pix at the Old Frisco Museum..Didnt see but one train tho,look like local or intercity job..
rrnut282 ValleyX The C&O of Indiana got abandoned because of heavy grades and clearances. Could the E-L, in conjunction with the Kankakee Belt, work well as a bypass around Chicago? B&O west of Parkersburg was a financial and clearances decision. Today, I'm sure they wish they hadn't hurried. Revive the NKP from Arcadia to the Indiana state line, it's all still there but R. J. Corman has it west of Lima and the NS is using it as a storage lot west of the state line to Portland, IN. Still think that was an NS "Hurry up and get rid of it", shortsighted decision. IIRC, the clearance problems on the C&O were bridges in Richmond and Muncie that no longer serve rail. As part of the revival the grades could be lessened. I'd like to see the NKP revived, too, but is there any traffic other than the ethanol plant in Portland?
The only rail not served would be that of the C&O. The bridges are the current NS New Castle District at Richmond and the Frankfort District and the now CSX Indianapolis main at Muncie.
The grades could be lessened but what would it take, it's a pretty good climb up out of Peru, IN.
Well, as far as traffic goes on the NKP, there's everything that Corman currently serves between Lima and Coldwater, don't think there's any rail business at Fort Recovery now, there's still Mershberger Stone and Red Gold at Portland, business out of Dunkirk that NS now handles via Muncie, and nothing at Albany.
Southern Pacific's narrow gauge Carson & Colorado,s line from Fallon(?) Nevada to Keeler. It would be great to ride over Montgomery Pass,highest point on the SP system,on a narrow gauge train.
I agree with other postors that the North Shore Line was the most useful line to be abandoned.
The Montgomery Pass line is pretty spectacular for an arid environment. I was part of a group of four OERM buddies who went on a camping trip to the Owens Valley in Oct 1992 - part of the trip was going down the line from the pass - most memorable scene was going through a short cut and then coming across a panoramic view of the valley below the pass.
rrnut282IIRC, the clearance problems on the C&O were bridges in Richmond and Muncie that no longer serve rail
Mike.....I'm trying to figure out where there were bridges {with clearance problems}, here {Muncie}, on the C&O line.....?? That ROW is still intact with our Cardinal Greenway Trail.
East of our C&O Depot...{now Trail Head}, near route 32, there is an underpass {NS operates over the top still}, but having biked under it many times I didn't get the impression it was minimal clearance....and I don't know of any other {underpass}, the ROW passed under near here......
The Santa Monica Branch (the old Santa Monica Air Line) from downtown Los Angeles to Santa Monica, CA, and with it the branches to Inglewood, Soldiers' Home, and Hollywood through Beverly Hills.
Reason is purely personal. I have to drive such huge distances to railfan now. If these lines were reinstated, I could just step out my door and railfan! That would be fun.
www.mountainmonthly.com/logging.html
Alamagordo and Sacramento Mountains Railroad. Interesting old logging RR.
The CGW line from Chicago to St. Paul would be first choice followed by Milwaukee Road's Green Island to Council Bluffs.
Jeff
Modelcar rrnut282IIRC, the clearance problems on the C&O were bridges in Richmond and Muncie that no longer serve rail Mike.....I'm trying to figure out where there were bridges {with clearance problems}, here {Muncie}, on the C&O line.....?? That ROW is still intact with our Cardinal Greenway Trail. East of our C&O Depot...{now Trail Head}, near route 32, there is an underpass {NS operates over the top still}, but having biked under it many times I didn't get the impression it was minimal clearance....and I don't know of any other {underpass}, the ROW passed under near here......
The ROW dipped udner the Big Four/New York Central/Penn Central/Conrail/CSX bridge but the clearances were less under the LE&W/NKP/N&W/NS bridge, tri-levels wouldn't fit under that bridge nor the bridge at Richmond, and I don't believe doublestacks would, either.
Several automobiles were made into instant convertibles circa 1983 or 84 when an NS train was shoved onto the Chessie at Muncie and detoured down the C&O to Hamilton. Crew was stopped at Cottage Grove and told to inspect their train and found severe damage to several loads of (I think it was) Fords. The pilot crew was severely reprimanded for not checking out the train for restricted heighth cars. Don't know what the final outcome of that was.
Oh, trains were detouring because of heavy rains and flooding, resulting in track being washed out around Somerville, OH, as well as Seven Mile and possibly Collinsville.
For some reason, I thought the bridges over the C&O that were too low belonged to PRR. Still, it would be fun to run if it were rebuilt, even if you have to duck once in a while.
DO trolley lines count? There is one that went right through where I am in the early 1900s. I found out it started/terminated right by where I live and went right past where my job is. That would have been soooo convenient.
For me it would be the L&N branch that ran from Bridgeport,AL to Pikeville,TN (I know that the Sequatchie Valley operates the Bridgeport to Jasper portion).
I grew up just west of Colorado Springs & I'd love to see the Colorado Midland running up Ute Pass again, also the old Short Line route from Colo Springs to Cripple Creek. Cripple Creek is now a big casino town, and there's actually been proposals to revive both these lines, but I think there's simply too much development along the routes now. Also I'll put in my vote for Tenn.Pass and also the RGS!!
espeefoamerSouthern Pacific's narrow gauge Carson & Colorado,s line from Fallon(?) Nevada to Keeler. It would be great to ride over Montgomery Pass,highest point on the SP system,on a narrow gauge train.
Pssst... Mound House . Later when the branch was standard guaged (to Tonopah, not over Montgomery) SP built a connection to Hazen (10 miles west of Fallon) bypassing the connection with the V&T. It sure would have been cool to see the Slim Princess in action , at least there is the museum town of Laws .
BNSF certainly wishes they could restore the former SP&S between Pasco and Spokane would certainly eliminate a large traffic bottleneck. Unfortunately it was donated to the state and became a bike and hiking trail.
The old NP line would cost more to double track than it would to buy back that particular line and rebuild for train service. BN certainly made an error in judgement when they eliminated that line.
And probably another error in judgement by BN was not rebuilding the CMSTP&P line over Snoqualmie Pass in the Cascades after the bridge was destroyed. Would certainly come in handy with double stacks today.
Al - in - Stockton
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