Trains.com

3 METRA ENGINEERS SUSPENDED - LET TEEN OPERATE TRAIN

10873 views
97 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 4, 2008 4:41 PM

Times have certainly changed, especially with the ambulance chasers out to get a large chunk of the damages that juries award.

I am glad that my cab rides and other experiences with hands-on railroading came before the day of blaming the railroads for any troubles. Most of my experiences came through knowing the railroad men involved, though my first cab ride came with the blessing a man I never met–the then superintendent of the IC’s Tennessee Division, who gave me permission, after I had asked for it, to ride the engine of the City of New Orleans from Memphis to Grenada 43 years ago. I had also asked the superintendent of the Louisiana Division about riding the engine from Canton to McComb, and he said that it was not done. Until I could no longer distinguish between a whistle post and mile post (same size and shape), I handled the air horn.

That December, I had an invitation from a SAL engineer to ride in the cab of his new "motor," as the SAL called its engines. On my way from Birmingham to Monroe, N. C. On #6, I stepped off at Athens, Ga., and walked up to the head end. The engineer invited me up, and while I was in the cab invited me to ride with him. I declined, not wanting him to get into any trouble.

In the spring of 1969, right after the Southern abolished the Pelican south of York, Alabama, I rode from Tuscaloosa to York and back to Tuscaloosa just to make the turn around. I boarded in Birmingham, where the train had been made up (if you had come in from the northeast and were continuing on south of Birmingham, you had to change because there was no passenger servicing facility in York) and the conductor (who knew me) expected me to get off in Tuscaloosa. When I told him what I was going to do, he refused to take my Tuscaloosa-York-Tuscaloosa ticket. While we were waiting in York for time to go, I asked him about riding the engine, and he took me up, spoke to the engineer–and I rode back to Tuscaloosa with the engine crew. When we arrived, I got off on the side away from the station, to reduce the possibility of the engine crew’s getting into trouble.

That fall, I was going to Bristol, Virginia, on the Birmingham Special, and spoke to the flagman (who knew me) after we had left Attalla (it may have been another stop), and he took me through the train (no RPO by then) to the engine–and rode there until we had gone through Lookout Mountain, and I was back in the coach before we got to the station.

My last mainline engine ride was on a steam engine. In December of 1970, the Southern was moving its two consolidation engines from Atlanta to Birmingham where they would be shopped during the winter. The Atlanta chapter of the NRHS sponsored an excursion which had the cars going back on the rear of the Southern Crescent. Several other members of the Birmingham chapter and I went over the day before and spent the night in Atlanta. On the way over, I talked with the engineer, a member of the Birmingham chapter, who was going to run the lead engine the next day, and asked him about the possibility of my riding the engine. He told me that it was not his decision to make. The next day, while the engines were being coaled and were taking water in Anniston, I (along with a few other people) was up by the engine–and the engineer beckoned to me. He may have cleared my riding with Bill Purdie, the head of Southern’s steam program, for he and his wife were both on the lead engine (she sat on the fireman’s box; he stood in the gangway). After I got in the cab, I noticed, and complimented Mrs. Purdie on her makeup–and she got me back when we arrived in Birmingham–"Your mother wouldn’t recognize you." It was a crowded cab–engineer and Mrs. Purdie on the seatboxes, two firemen, who kept the engine hot, and one supernumerary. It’s no wonder Mr. Purdie stood in the gangway, even when we went through Cook Spring Tunnel.

I also had great pleasure in the late sixties and early seventies working with the AT&N’s crews at the north end of the railroad–playing switchman and brakeman, flagging public crossings, riding the engine around the wye, running the engine around the wye, and once making their daily run with them, going the 20 miles down to the connection with the Frisco and back (two hours each way) at night. My only regret is that I never did arrange for my wife to run the engine around the wye, for she would have enjoyed it.

In April of 1974, I was on my way to Boston, boarding in Tuscaloosa. In Birmingham, I stepped off and walked up to the engine, having no idea at all as to who would be running the engine to Atlanta–it was the same engineer who had invited me up in Anniston. He told me that he would invite me to ride with him, but the company was cracking down on such. I did not insist that he let me ride.

Johnny

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Tuesday, November 4, 2008 1:46 PM

The Tribune article you cited when originating this thread read, in part:

A Metra engineer is under investigation for permitting the 18-year-old to drive trains, and he and two other two trainmen have been suspended for allegedly allowing the teen to enter locomotive cabs, according to a report filed recently with the Federal Railroad Administration.

I would assume the first engineer is the one referred to.

Here's a link to the story I saw today:

http://www.utu.org/worksite/detail_news.cfm?ArticleID=44494

Take the last paragraph with a grain of salt:  I doubt that his pension will be anything near the amount cited--more likely that's his annual pay rate.

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Chicago, Ill.
  • 2,843 posts
Posted by al-in-chgo on Tuesday, November 4, 2008 1:01 PM

I must be missing something -- did it come down to just one engineer's performance?

Because the news reports mention three engineers.  -  a.s.

 

al-in-chgo
  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Tuesday, November 4, 2008 8:45 AM

Latest on the story:  the engineer involved has resigned.  According to what I read, he will no longer be investigated by Metra, but may still have Fedral fines.  He will be able to collect Railroad Retirement.

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 3, 2008 10:48 PM

zugmann

 One word answers all your questions: LIABILITY.

You allow someone on your engine, then you derail and he gets hurt.  You get sued.  You invite someone for a cabride and they slip and fall on the steps climbing on.  You get sued. 

 

Yes, that's the way it is now, because people refuse to take responsibility for their own actions.

This is the way it should be: you ask to ride an engine, and you are hurt. If you had not asked to ride, you would not have been hurt: YOU are responsible for your being hurt because you put yourself into a dangerous place. You climb to the top of a car that is sitting under catenary, and you are, at best, burned: YOU are responsible for the damage.

Johnny

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Monday, November 3, 2008 10:32 PM

 One word answers all your questions: LIABILITY.

You allow someone on your engine, then you derail and he gets hurt.  You get sued.  You invite someone for a cabride and they slip and fall on the steps climbing on.  You get sued. 

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • 762 posts
Posted by kolechovski on Monday, November 3, 2008 4:23 PM

Are there any archives of the pics the kid took or his myspace page?  According to this:

http://searchservice.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=sitesearch.results&type=AllMySpace&qry=Stupid+Metra&submit=Search

his page no longer exists, though it has cached a picture of a loco.  I'm curious what the pics were that caused all the trouble.  And back in the day, would the railroads have complained about cab rides?  I know of quite a few older guys who got numerous cab rides, even back in teh steam era, and they weren't even railfans!  These days, you hit the lottery if you get a cab ride!  Why such a huge change?  Sure, the lawyers helped ruin it for everyone, but still, something major had to change.  As for him operating the train, I am a bit uncomfortable about that with a passenger train flying along, without him being experienced, even if the engineer was right there with him.  Now running freight locos plodding along at low speeds if a different story IMO, and I'd guess that's the kind of thing most people that got to run the locos were doing (yes, some even got to run them).  Why are railroads having such huge problems with this now?

And what about job shadowing? I'd think letting highschoolers in teh cab for a day to watch the train crews work would be a great way to introduce them to the lifestyle, let them know what the work is like, and encourage those that might be considering a career in it.  Why don't railroads do this?

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: Osage City, Kansas
  • 94 posts
Posted by MOPACnut on Monday, November 3, 2008 2:48 AM

henry6

Awesome!

 Do you think this guy is focusing?Pirate

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=257334&nseq=0

 "David P. Who says she should get a cab ride?"  Or,  "I'm kicking David P. out of my cab and..."..

  Now that could cause an engineer to miss a stop signal Whistling.

 Anyway, running a switch engine in a yard or a local on a branch line is one thing. Running a loaded commuter train on a main line is another! Real smart.

 If it had been me no way would i have posted photos or even mentioned it (until about maybe 40 years laterSmile, Wink & Grin). I've been in an engine cab on a stopped train twice, (and a couple dozen times in the cabs of ones parked at Topeka's Railroad DaysSmile, Wink & Grin). And my only cab ride was a paid for (3.00$) one on the Midland RR excursion in 1999 (back and forth a couple times in an  NW-2, about a 400' trip each move). 

Tags: Metra
I preferr "Rail" over "trail".
  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Chicago, Ill.
  • 2,843 posts
Posted by al-in-chgo on Saturday, November 1, 2008 10:57 PM

I don't get these Forums sometimes.  You can't say "***" but it's okay to show butt floss?  -  a.s.

 

al-in-chgo
  • Member since
    June 2006
  • 1,432 posts
Posted by Limitedclear on Saturday, November 1, 2008 10:46 PM

Cool

  • Member since
    April 2001
  • From: US
  • 1,103 posts
Posted by ValleyX on Saturday, November 1, 2008 8:59 AM
Picture doesn't look natural to me, she's up there on those rocks barefoot, it doesn't appear like it would be easy to get up there barefoot, dressed in a bikini, no less. Man standing on the engine is dressed warmly, individual visible in the background has long sleeves on, we've no idea where this is, do we? As for distraction, what can you say. The subject can be talked to death by all of us but none of us were there, it's all hearsay, innuendo, and speculation on our parts. The engineers shouldn't have let the juvenile into the cab and the juvenile should have learned from the mistakes of others who have also posted on Facebook and the like, much to their chagrin later.
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 8,156 posts
Posted by henry6 on Friday, October 31, 2008 8:07 AM

As an old editor of mine once said: put pictures of babe's, babies,and animals on the front page and you can distract anyone from the news.  So here we are debating the Photoshopping of a bikini clad lass rather than addressing a juvenile and his attending juvenile actions and engineers and their ignoring of rules in favor of sharing thier trade. 

So, my take: She looks too young...especially for David P. Whatshisname.  But my question is why did the train stop?  Did she wave?

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Aurora, IL
  • 4,515 posts
Posted by eolafan on Friday, October 31, 2008 7:37 AM

Bucyrus

I don't see anything about that photo that suggests that it has been doctored.  She seems intrusive to the rest of the scene, because she is.  Even that guy on the engine thinks so.

DITTO!
Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim)
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, October 31, 2008 7:34 AM

I don't see anything about that photo that suggests that it has been doctored.  She seems intrusive to the rest of the scene, because she is.  Even that guy on the engine thinks so.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Sunny (mostly) San Diego
  • 1,920 posts
Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Thursday, October 30, 2008 8:57 PM
CopCarSS

ValleyX

 Actually, I've wondered that every since it got posted, the picture doesn't quite look natural to me.

It's a cut above a lot of the awful photochop jobs I've seen, but this one is still definately instantly recognizable as a chop job. Even in the small thumbnail version, it's easy to see that the white balance of the lighting on the young lady doesn't match the rest of the shot. Bringing up the bigger version shows a lot of other flaws, too.

I concur that the lighting doesn't match; the contrast in the model is higher than the rest of the scene, and her key light is coming from about 40 degrees above the lens axis, while there is no corresponding shadow behind her.

On the other hand, it looks like there was some skillful application of the Liquify Tool to morph her feet and legs to uncomfortably match the rocks she is standing on. This one is definitely a cut above the average chopper, though.

BTW, the Liquify Tool is a great way to control those pesky little fat bulges and double chins that show up from time to time.

  • Member since
    August 2002
  • From: Turner Junction
  • 3,076 posts
Posted by CopCarSS on Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:12 PM

ValleyX

 Actually, I've wondered that every since it got posted, the picture doesn't quite look natural to me.

It's a cut above a lot of the awful photochop jobs I've seen, but this one is still definately instantly recognizable as a chop job. Even in the small thumbnail version, it's easy to see that the white balance of the lighting on the young lady doesn't match the rest of the shot. Bringing up the bigger version shows a lot of other flaws, too.

-Chris
West Chicago, IL
Christopher May Fine Art Photography

"In wisdom gathered over time I have found that every experience is a form of exploration." ~Ansel Adams

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • 964 posts
Posted by gardendance on Thursday, October 30, 2008 11:58 AM

since a couple of folks have mentioned photoshop here, I'd like to remind everybody that one possible defense is "that's not me in those hundreds of cab ride pictures, they must have been computer altered."

Patrick Boylan

Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:21 PM

David P. Morgan--how many of you remember the pictures that had been recaptioned "David P. WHO wants to ride this engine?"? The two that stick in my mind are the one in which the engineer is talking on his radiophone and the one in which men with six-guns are ready to fend the Trains editor off.

Johnny

  • Member since
    April 2001
  • From: US
  • 1,103 posts
Posted by ValleyX on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:42 PM

CopCarSS

Photochop anyone?

Actually, I've wondered that every since the picture was posted, it doesn't quite look natural to me.  Proportions are off, somehow.

  • Member since
    April 2001
  • From: US
  • 1,103 posts
Posted by ValleyX on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:39 PM

CopCarSS

Photochop anyone?

 Actually, I've wondered that every since it got posted, the picture doesn't quite look natural to me.

  • Member since
    August 2002
  • From: Turner Junction
  • 3,076 posts
Posted by CopCarSS on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:00 PM

Photochop anyone?

-Chris
West Chicago, IL
Christopher May Fine Art Photography

"In wisdom gathered over time I have found that every experience is a form of exploration." ~Ansel Adams

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 8,156 posts
Posted by henry6 on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:49 PM

Awesome!

 Do you think this guy is focusing?Pirate

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=257334&nseq=0

 "David P. Who says she should get a cab ride?"  Or,  "I'm kicking David P. out of my cab and..."..

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Kenosha, WI
  • 6,567 posts
Posted by zardoz on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:03 PM

Limitedclear

Randy Stahl

What the heck is my wife doing playing around the railroad tracks?? I thought I taught her better than that !!!

Randy -

Your wife the porn starlet? Wow, who knew??!

LC 

I thought Randy was the frustrated porn star....

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • 1,432 posts
Posted by Limitedclear on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:47 AM

Randy Stahl

What the heck is my wife doing playing around the railroad tracks?? I thought I taught her better than that !!!

Randy -

Your wife the porn starlet? Wow, who knew??!

LC 

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • 1,432 posts
Posted by Limitedclear on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:40 AM

gardendance

In my never ending quest to keep on topic, did the teen in the original post look anything like the lady in the photo? A properly stacked jury might bring judgment for the 3 Metra engineers, depending on if the teen was properly stacked as well.

Define "properly stacked". Is that a legal term...??

LC

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Kenosha, WI
  • 6,567 posts
Posted by zardoz on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:14 AM
Take it easy you guys, or you'll start drooling on your keyboards.
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 8,156 posts
Posted by henry6 on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:07 AM

gardendance

In my never ending quest to keep on topic, did the teen in the original post look anything like the lady in the photo? A properly stacked jury might bring judgment for the 3 Metra engineers, depending on if the teen was properly stacked as well.

The teen was a guy...lets not make this situtation more perverse.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • 964 posts
Posted by gardendance on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:03 AM

In my never ending quest to keep on topic, did the teen in the original post look anything like the lady in the photo? A properly stacked jury might bring judgment for the 3 Metra engineers, depending on if the teen was properly stacked as well.

Patrick Boylan

Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: roundhouse
  • 2,747 posts
Posted by Randy Stahl on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 7:22 AM

What the heck is my wife doing playing around the railroad tracks?? I thought I taught her better than that !!!

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy