Fusees and Torpedos

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

I recall an essay about torpoedoes - I think it was in A Treasury of Railroad Folklore, edited by B. A. Botkin and A. F. Harlow - that ended with a line to the effect that on the proverbial "dark and stormy night", there was nothing so comforting to the trainmen as a lit lantern with the wick properly trimmed and couple of torpedoes ("guns") hanging from the frame.

- Paul North.

[DSO17]

     Speaking of dark and stormy nights, some years ago one of the New Jersey NRHS Chapters put out a publication with an article about a PRR torpedo placing machine at a block station in NJ. IIRC it was east of the Delair Bridge (JORDAN?). I think it was to keep trains from getting by a signal in a heavy fog area.

     One of these forums had a discussion about a similar practice in England, where they are called detonators.

[dehusman]

Fusees and torpedoes are mentioned in an 1876 rule book I have so they go back a while.  Torpedoes were still in use into the 1980's.  I haven't heard of many accidents to railroaders with torpedoes, but lots of accidents to kids that broke into cabooses and engines and stole them.

When flagging typically a trainman would go back the flagging distance (varied from one to two miles depending on the speed of the territory), set two torpedoes on the engineer's side rail 150 ft apart, then go back towards the train 1/2 the flagging distance.  When recalled the trainman would pop a fusee and drop it then go back to the train.  The fusee would burn for 10 minutes, insuring that there was a minimum of 10 minute spacing between trains.  If the flagman heard a train coming, he was supposed to put down another set of torpedoes and then start giving stop signals with a fusee, light or flag.

If a train hit a torpedo it would explode.  The engineer would have to reduce speed immediately and travel at a restricted speed for the flagging distance, prepared to stop short of a fusee, flagman or train.  If they encountered a lit fusee on or near their track, then had to stop before passing it and wait 10 minutes or until the fusee burned out then proceed at restricted speed for flagging distance (some rule books allowed the train to stop and then proceed at restricted speed, without waiting for the fusee to burn out.)

On trains with cabooses, if the train drop below some speed (typically half the subdivision speed) the conductor was supposed to drop lit fusees out the caboose at regular intervals  to prevent a train from catching up to them.  In addition to trainmen, operators were supposed to be qualified on how to use flagging tools.

Dave H.

[Kootenay Central]

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[al-in-chgo]

Someone should be pasting or transcribing these rules IMHO.   They involve more than mere trivia; there's a great deal of wisdom involved.  I feel strongly that it will be of some interest to people in the future.  Especially if it's part of a narrative or a biography!  - a.s.

"Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got til it's gone?"  

                 from "They Paved Paradise to Put Up a Parking Lot" by Joni Mitchell (1960's)

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Concur, although that's probably already been accomplished by preserved and archived rulebooks and timetables, etc.  As others have noted, all "written in someone's blood", so to speak. 

Also, they demonstrate a very safety-oriented mindset - with redundancies and alternate or additional precautions thought out and built-in for the inevitable and perhaps frequent "what if ?' contingencies - that seems to be not too common these days.  When dealing with large machinery at high speeds in all kinds of topographic, weather, and other environmental conditions (noise), all precautions must be taken.

- Paul North.

[Anonymous]

Kootenay Central,

That is excellent information.  Very interesting.  I would add that fusees could be a useful tool to quickly start a coal fire in the stove of a cold caboose.  Six to twelve of them should do the trick, but you wouldn't want to overdo it.

[al-in-chgo]

Concur, although that's probably already been accomplished by preserved and archived rulebooks and timetables, etc.  As others have noted, all "written in someone's blood", so to speak. 

Also, they demonstrate a very safety-oriented mindset - with redundancies and alternate or additional precautions thought out and built-in for the inevitable and perhaps frequent "what if ?' contingencies - that seems to be not too common these days.  When dealing with large machinery at high speeds in all kinds of topographic, weather, and other environmental conditions (noise), all precautions must be taken.

- Paul North.

Well said, Paul.  The more the danger, the more the redundancies and alternatives that should be at hand.  Has anyone asked:  did these involve some manner of early-modern high explosives (maybe modfied nitroglycerin, there must be others), or was it just plain black powder.  Gotta keep that stuff dry, which can be quite a struggle in a railroading environment. 

Maybe I expect too much of people, but if I had the funds I'd commission a book that has (hopefully the best) elements of often-dry historical arana and as-told-to social history.  How to take care of and set fusees properly, say.  If you've looked at last year's hit THE DANGEROUS BOOK FOR BOYS, you know what I mean.  It wasn't dangerous at all, but gave instructions for the kinds of crafts English boys would have been able to do 100 years ago (U.S. lads, too, I reckon) -- whittle a whistle, say.  I loved it and so did my nephew. Apparently it was fascinating  to other readers, too, given its bestseller status.  THE LAST WHOLE EARTH CATALOG meets FOXFIRE, that kind of thing.

 

 

 

[WSOR 3801]

I have heard of persons setting torpedoes all the way around a turntable ring rail.  Then start the table in motion.  Happy New Year! Every police officer in town went to the roundhouse, but the culprits had scattered by them.

Many engines had in the cab a metal box, with lid, to store torpedoes in.  A larger side compartment held fusees.

[Andrew Falconer]

Is the best way to dispose of all those obsolete Torpedos to just run-over them and detonate them?

Andrew

[Semper Vaporo]

Is the best way to dispose of all those obsolete Torpedos to just run-over them and detonate them?

Andrew

 

Might not be "Best" but it sure would be fun!

[erikem]

Is the best way to dispose of all those obsolete Torpedos to just run-over them and detonate them?

Andrew

 

Might not be "Best" but it sure would be fun!

Some of the rocket motors for the Poseidon missiles were disposed of by taking them out to just northwest of the Salt Lake and detonating them - made for quite a crater. 

[henry6]

Is the best way to dispose of all those obsolete Torpedos to just run-over them and detonate them?

Andrew

 

Definitely not!  The explosions could be dangerous if standing too close.  And depending on what you use to detonate, shattering could cause severe injury; and being so close could damage ears.  I don't believe an auto tire would do it, but if it did detonate it is liable to shatter the tire, for instance.  I do know it shatters rocks.  Er, don't ask.  OK.  Yes.

[al-in-chgo]

Did we ever figure out what kind of explosive torpedoes used?  Because if it's black powder, that's one of the most dangerous.  It can get wet and refuse to work at all, and then dry out and pose a literal "hang-fire" situation. 

Did the railroad have explosive disposal squads in the 1950s and 1960s?  I don't think they had yet become common among police departments.  If the RR's couldn't handle it they probably had a contact with some contractor who understood blasting caps and powder or something.  I not even sure plastique existed back there.

But did torpedoes have nothing more sophiscated to them than gunpowder?  - a.s.

 

[Modelcar]

.....I certainly don't know the explosive perticulars about torpedoes, but I have heard plenty of them detonate.  The B&O coal hauler was a bit more than a mile from my home and of course they would be heard every day....{we're speaking of decades ago}, and the "blast" from them sounded strong.....Easily could be heard from that distance.

Running over one with an automobile tire may or may not detonate them, but I'd think that would not be using good judgement....If it would explode and a fragment cut thru the gas tank, etc.....

In just writing about this I wonder if it might have been a dangerous operation for crew members and how often might there been accidents.   Lots of crew members would have been handling these. 

Those things really did explode with authority....

[tomikawaTT]

Just on a whim, I Googled Railroad torpedo injuries.

The first thing that came up was a newspaper article that, as part of a descriptiion of a freight train derailment, stated that three little girls found a torpedo in the wreckage and were attempting to take it apart with a rock when it detonated, killing one and injuring the other two.  The article was dated 1874...

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[Nataraj]

Torpedos are used all the time on the Durango and Silverton Narrow Gauge.

[Anonymous]

Did we ever figure out what kind of explosive torpedoes used?  Because if it's black powder, that's one of the most dangerous.  It can get wet and refuse to work at all, and then dry out and pose a literal "hang-fire" situation. 

Did the railroad have explosive disposal squads in the 1950s and 1960s?  I don't think they had yet become common among police departments.  If the RR's couldn't handle it they probably had a contact with some contractor who understood blasting caps and powder or something.  I not even sure plastique existed back there.

But did torpedoes have nothing more sophiscated to them than gunpowder?  - a.s.

 

I don't know what type of explosive was used, but it was a coarse, granular, yellowish powder formed into a solid block about 1-1/4" square by 3/8" thick.  This block was encased in a waterproof paper package that could rather easily be torn open.

I don't know what could set torpedoes off besides running over them with a train or hitting them with a hammer-like tool.  I never heard of any concerns about them becoming unstable.  If it were possible for them to self-detonate or be detonated by jolts or bumps, and if it were possible for them to detonate each other while stored together in a container, then they would have been a major hazard for trainmen.  A dozen of them going off simultaneously in a caboose would probably kill the occupants.

In an earlier post, the suggestion that torpedoes could damage rail or wheels is interesting.  I wonder about that.

[zardoz]

I have heard of persons setting torpedoes all the way around a turntable ring rail.  Then start the table in motion.  Happy New Year! Every police officer in town went to the roundhouse, but the culprits had scattered by them.

You've "heard of" persons....? Wouldn't happen to be you, was it?   That's a cool idea, putting them on the turntable rail......I never thought of that one......

In Kenosha there is a tavern right next to the Farm subdivision tracks near 22nd Ave.  One night I knew the local was coming thru town around midnight, so I put a half-dozen or so torpedos on the tracks next to the bar.  When the train was getting close, I went in to the bar to watch the excitment.  When the train went past setting off the torps, you'd have thought WWIII was starting; I've never seen so many people hit the floor or reach for their own piece so quickly!!  Of course, in retrospect, going in there might not have been the brightest thing to do .

Another of my "fun things to do with a torpedo" was to place one on each rail just behind each wheel of my locomotives.  When the engines would start moving forward, all the wheels would hit the torpedos at the same time....the sound of 36 torpedos going off was rather nifty, and if it was done at night, the noise plus the visuals of 36 explosions going off under my locomotives was really cool!

And what listing of "fun things to do with a torpedo" would be complete without mentioning how effective they were in waking up a sleeping conductor.  My deal with conductors was that they could nap while we were moving, but when we stopped waiting for a signal, the conductor had to stay awake so I could nap.  If, while stopped, I would notice the conductor napping, I would go outside and place a torpedo under each wheel on his side of the locomotive. I would then hold down the independent while at the same time letting the engine brakes off just enough to let the train just barely move. Then at the same time we hit the torpedos I would release the independent.  The sound of the torps exploding and the air exhausting at the same time would usually ensure a wide-awake (although rather irritated) conductor.

[WSOR 3801]

I have heard of persons setting torpedoes all the way around a turntable ring rail.  Then start the table in motion.  Happy New Year! Every police officer in town went to the roundhouse, but the culprits had scattered by them.

You've "heard of" persons....? Woulndn't happen to be you, was it?   That's a cool idea, putting them on the turntable rail......I never thought of that one......

It wasn't me.  Many years before I was around.

It was New Years Eve 1958/59 and the magical hour was
fast approaching. Big Bill and I where working the old Janesville
Night Job. We where at West Yard doing a little spot awaiting the
arrival of 68. I forget how it came about, but we decided that we
should do our part in welcoming in the new year. It was finally
decided that we would line the circular rail on the turntable with
torpedos. Now this proved to be quite an undertaking, to do the job
right we raided every engine and caboose on the property. And then we
placed them completely around the rail. At about 11:59.30, the
contoller was horsed over to run and we hightailled it for the sand
house where we where going to observe the excitment. Well I never
heard such a ruckus. I doubt that the fleet raised more hell at
Okinawa than ensued at West Yard. Ah the canonade was stupendous. And
the smoke. Refere to that photo in the last TMR. It was a clear cold
night, and the smoke engulfed the entire roundhouse area, and slowly
drifted across the yard to engulf the yard office before heading for
South Beloit. After the explosions ceased the silence was deafening.
As the cloud covered the settled areas to the east, sirens where
heard converging from all directions. From our vantage point in the
sand house, we could observe the men in blue feeling their way thru
the haze to the Yard office. A few even risked crossing to the still
smoke filled turntable pit to ponder what had happened. Bill an I
just laid low, till the excitment was over, feeling that we had done
our part in helping the festivities reach a new high in the State
Line area. We where never directly accused of the deed, but with our
past records we certainly came under suspicion. And there wasn't a
torpedo to be found at West Yard. Fortunatly, Lakeside Fuzee was
located in South Beloit, and resupply was not a problem for the
storekeeper.

.....

 

[Randy Stahl]

Same thing happened a few times in Fon du lac but I'm not going to talk about that in case I can still be prosecuted .

[steemtrayn]

In Kenosha there is a tavern right next to the Farm subdivision tracks near 22nd Ave.  One night I knew the local was coming thru town around midnight, so I put a half-dozen or so torpedos on the tracks next to the bar.  When the train was getting close, I went in to the bar to watch the excitment.  When the train went past setting off the torps, you'd have thought WWIII was starting; I've never seen so many people hit the floor or reach for their own piece so quickly!!  Of course, in retrospect, going in there might not have been the brightest thing to do .

I "know someone" who did a similar thing, but the torps were placed right over the fence from where the cops were conducting their closing-time DWI checks.

[Rex Beistle]

My Grandfather's work car was a 1941 Nash four door sedan, six volt ignition of course.  The old car sometimes did not care to start when he came in off of a run in the wee hours of an Oklahoma Winter night in Oklahoma City.  A couple nights outside the Frisco roundhouse in January and SAE 30 weight motor oil in the Nash would really get thick.

 Soooo, Grandpa would put a couple fusees under the engine of the old Nash - spikes stuck into the ground with the burning ends upright and pointed at the bottom side of the crankcase.  A visit with the night hostler and a cup of black coffee while the fusees burned out and the old Nash would spin like a top and away he would go.  A second benefit was that the heater in the car would be warm right away.

Boiling the motor oil probably was not good for the oil, but it got Grandpa home.  His last call was late Spring in 1958.

 

Rex Beistle

Northern Colorado

 

[Semper Vaporo]

That Nash probably had an Oil Pan that was like armour plating... I don't think I want to do that with a modern car with todays's "tin-foil" Oil Pans.

[Modelcar]

....My first thought after reading the "fusee deal", was wondering why the leaking oil and grit {that most likely was around the engine/oil pan}, didn't catch fire around the engine.  Back then, such was not sealed up as well as modern engine's in that areas are now.

[joesap1]

Torpedos and their use are still described in the GCOR. In fact we came across a box of torpedos at our depot a few weeks back. Though they were old, they still worked, 'cause we tried them!

[bnsfhogr]

regarding a fusee thown in the guage of railroad track, GCOR states that the train must stop before passing the fusee,if consistent with good train handling. After the fusee burns out or after 10 minutes if the fusee is not visible, the train must proceed at restricted speed until the head end is 1 mile beyond the fusee. If the fusee is beyond the first rail of an adjacent track, the fusee does not apply  to the track on which the train is moving.

 Regarding the question about the railroader who bailed off the waycar to chase some miscreants, at that time frame, there would be more than one crewmember in the waycar and hopefully the other crewmember(s) would be awake and would dump the air if they saw their buddy was unable to make it back to the train.

On the BNSF we used fusees all the time when switching at Eola since some yard movements required moving over a public crossing.  A crew member would ride the point of the shove but would also ignite a fusee and place it on the drawbar or crossover platform so that the shove could be seen by motorists who might try to run the crossing. We also used fusees in yards where a U-man would be protecting a shove so that he could see the cut of cars coming toward him. I did that all the time when bringing a transfer to the BRC at Clearing Yard.

Some of the locos still carried torpedos in the cab box  along with the fusees.

The old axiom about encountering torpedoes or fusees and what to do was "1 fusee, 1 mile(how far to travel at restricted speed)/ 2 torpedos, 2 miles(same meaning).

 Charlie

[Kootenay Central]

        

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[cx500]

 

dehusman

On trains with cabooses, if the train drop below some speed (typically half the subdivision speed) the conductor was supposed to drop lit fusees out the caboose at regular intervals  to prevent a train from catching up to them.  In addition to trainmen, operators were supposed to be qualified on how to use flagging tools.

 

A big mistake was to drop the fusee out of the caboose as you crossed a timber trestle.  If it landed on the tie, no problem, but if it fell between the ties the next train might find the bridge missing.  If the fusee  spike stuck in the cross bracing, the flare might be igniting another timber member.  If it was land instead of water, a grass or brush fire could get the bridge burning pretty quickly.  More than one bridge or bridge deck has come to grief because of a misplaced fusee.  Creosoted wood can really burn.

John

[Murphy Siding]

cx500

A big mistake was to drop the fusee out of the caboose as you crossed a timber trestle.  If it landed on the tie, no problem, but if it fell between the ties the next train might find the bridge missing.  If the fusee  spike stuck in the cross bracing, the flare might be igniting another timber member.  If it was land instead of water, a grass or brush fire could get the bridge burning pretty quickly.  More than one bridge or bridge deck has come to grief because of a misplaced fusee.  Creosoted wood can really burn.

John

  A guy I know who worked on the Milwaukee Road in the early 60's told me of a train that went 20 miles up the river to a quarry to pick up cars.  The fireman used a fusee to light a cigar, then threw it out the window.  As they were coming back down the line, they had to stop.  A local volunteer fire department was fighting a fire on a small bridge-started by the fuseee.