Train vs Truck= Train Loses?

[coborn35]

Waht would happen if one of these,

http://www.users.qwest.net/~choice157565252/pictures/bnsf6831.jpg

were to say, hit one of these....

http://prometheus.med.utah.edu/~bwjones/C1276349108/E266581637/Media/Caterpillar%20mining%20truck.jpg

in theory of course.

[magicman710]

If it was the engine itself, and going say 50 MPH, the engine would move the truck and the truck would be damaged but the engine would be much more damaged.

 

Now say you had 4 of those engines and a 100 car coal train goining 50mph..... The engine wouldnt be in to good of shape but neither would that truck....

[RRFoose]

Me thinks they would both lose.  The locos would certainly be destroyed, but if it were a loaded coal or steel train moving at a good clip, the momentum would be so tremendous.  The truck would get moved and maybe rolled, but it not destroyed like a typical car.  Maybe OLS should try this one out!

[Modelcar]

.....I think the condition will rarely have a chance to happen.  Those trucks are not going to be operated on highways....They are simply too large to fit.  They almost always are used off road at construction or mining.

If it was possible....and the truck was loaded it might be somewhat of a draw....They can carry 100 plus tons of load....so together it would have a good chance to outweigh the locomotive.

[canazar]

Could always do a small expeirment with a HO trainset and a Tonka Truck.

 

Well, not my trains or my Tonka truck.

[Boyd]

That gives me an idea for my Lionel train layout. With a little work some Tonka Toy trucks are big enough to look like one of those hue trucks. Modify the cab, add steps and a big radiator.

 

[ericsp]

You do not need a huge truck for the train to lose. Remember the Amtrak that struck the truck carrying rebar in Bourbonnais, IL back in 1999? Not that the truck won, but neither did the train.

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2002/RAR0201.htm 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

As mentioned in a prior post, the truck in question does not venture beyond the confines of an open-pit mine.  I remember taking the tour at Minntac about 25 years ago and it was mentioned by the guide that one of those trucks backed over a conventional pick-up truck that was parked in the wrong place.  The pick-up was flattened and the driver of the dump truck wasn't even aware of it until after the fact.

As an aside, mining trucks of this size are diesel-electrics, you'd burn out a lot of clutches and destroy a lot of gearboxes with a straight mechanical drive.

[TomDiehl]

That gives me an idea for my Lionel train layout. With a little work some Tonka Toy trucks are big enough to look like one of those hue trucks. Modify the cab, add steps and a big radiator.

 

So Boyd's real name is Gomez Addams?

[Modelcar]

.....A few comments beyond my post above.....Did a little checking and payloads for some of these monsters = 400 tons...!!!

Perhaps they are almost a third higher then RR locomotives....and they are probably 3 times wider.  So, in checking....If it was an outright crash at a crossing...{which we'll not see}, I now believe it would be the RR engine laying on it's side....not the truck after the meet.

[passengerfan]

Years ago on the Niagara Peninsula a CN freight with three SD40s hit a lowboy that had got hung up on a croosing with a D8 cat. The cat got tossed into a field and and the three diesels were heavily damaged and derailed along with about thirty cars. Fortunately no one was seriously injured. The D8 cat was started and drove out of the field to another waiting lowboy trailer. The lead SD40 was scrapped.

Al - in - Stockton 

[cacole]

Because of the numerous open pit copper mines in Arizona and Mexico, I see those trucks, or at least parts of them, being moved through here quite frequently.

The bed alone is wider than a 2 lane highway and requires closure of the road while they are being moved.  The route has to be carefully selected because of bridge clearances and weight restrictions.  The tires are 8 feet in diameter and are moved on a separate flatbed.  The main chassis requires quadruple trailers with 24 or more wheels under each one to bear the load, and they are so tall that they will not clear any Interstate overpasses or traffic signals.

A pedestrian overpass was recently removed in Tombstone, Arizona, so some of these trucks and other oversize items could be moved through town.  The bridge is going to be put back into place in one month after several loads are moved through the area.

The possibility of a train hitting one of those trucks is extremely unlikely since they would never be close to a railroad except when they are being shipped to a mine in parts.  They are even too big to ship by rail.

Using a Lionel or any other model train and a Tonka truck would not come close to replicating a collision between these two because of the difference in weight and bulk between the real thing and the models.

[coborn35]

Right, I said in theory.

[Anonymous]

A train of even moderate length is going to weigh more than the truck, but the truck is heavy enough to pose enough resistance to turn the whole works into scrap iron.  It would be like a train hitting another train.

[gabe]

If it was the engine itself, and going say 50 MPH, the engine would move the truck and the truck would be damaged but the engine would be much more damaged.

 

Now say you had 4 of those engines and a 100 car coal train goining 50mph..... The engine wouldnt be in to good of shape but neither would that truck....

One way or another, a lawyer would make money . . .

[carnej1]

 It seems to me that, at least in the case of the largest mining trucks (360-400 ton capacity like the CAT 797 in the picture) the passage of the truck over the RR right of way would do serious damage to the track structure so the train would not have to actually collide to derail, hypothetically of course.....

[Modelcar]

....Most highway crossings have the track imbeded with material along side the rail at roughly the same heigh,so I believe the track would be ok. 

It would be an unfortunate connection having a RR engine and one of these max. capacity off road trucks meet.  I believe the truck would have a better chance of moving after the wreck happened. 

Some of the trucks carry tires over 12' tall.....! Some when fully loaded = gross wt.  560 tons....!!!  That size and weight starts to equalize itself to a railroad engine.

[CNW 6000]

It's not something I'd like to be watching happen!

[trainfan1221]

A train of even moderate length is going to weigh more than the truck, but the truck is heavy enough to pose enough resistance to turn the whole works into scrap iron.  It would be like a train hitting another train.

In my opinion this sums it up pretty well.  Yes it is unlikely it would ever happen but it wouldn't be pretty.  If anyone ever read about these trucks, they basically ARE a locomotive, at least operationally.  They have a large sized diesel engine connected to a generator,dynamo,what have you and they are powered by electric motors.  The largest one ever, the Titan, had a 3300 hp EMD 645 in it.

[Railroader_Sailor_SSN-760]

The book Train wrecks by Robert C. Reed (1968 Superior Publishing) has some photos of what happens when a train collides with a truck and derails.

On Page 158 (this is all based on the 1st Edition, I am not sure if later editions are any different) there is a photo of a C&O freight train that was derailed after hitting a truck with so much force that the rails were ripped up badly.

Page 160  has a pair of photos of derailed trains caused by trucks that stayed on the tracks, one of them was a CB&Q passeneger train that hit dump truck that was carrying stone, one of the locos is on it's side with it's front end smashed in.

A pretty good book, just a bit dated, but still informative.

[trainfan1221]

If that is the book I am thinking of I have seen it, my High School library actually had it and I used to look through it periodically.  Seen it other places too.   Assuming it is the same book, the picture that always haunted me was the one of the F unit that hit a gas tanker, it stayed on but was completely burned and the crew unfortunately perished.

[Ted Marshall]

Seems like a good one for Smash Lab, although they've done the train thing before.

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/smash-lab/smash-lab.html

Hey... what better to smash something with than a couple 200 ton freight locomotives with about 10,000 trailing tons, right?

I'd normally say that the smart money is on the train, but given the example, I don't think there would be any winners here.

[carnej1]

 I recall a photo for an old (late 1970's) TRAINS magazine issue with the caption "Geep Versus CAT" showing the aftermath of a local headed by an SP GP9 colliding with a Caterpillar Motor Scraper(earthmover with a single axle tractor linked by articulation to a scraper "pan", in this case with a secondary diesel engine powering the rear axle, very big kitty). The text went on to state that it was a low speed accident (fortunately) and the Geep had only minor pilot damage while the Cat was driven away..

[trainfan1221]

Lets not forget the one about the Amtrak turbo train hitting a car, having to be towed off, and the car drove away I believe.  The good news, apparently nobody was seriously injured.  The bad news, How Embarassing!

[Last Chance]

Well, both will lose. I refuse to contemplate the scenario as these mine hogs stay in sand boxes that are very large and usually off limits to everyone not involved with mine ops.

But thinking if such a scenario for a moment, both will lose and badly. If any hazmat is on that train, it's going to basically trash the town and perhaps kill/hurt many people.

You need to realize that those mine trucks are so heavy and act like a large house when driven. Basically if you mash the boss's pickup truck, you might feel a slight jar similar to the many that you felt all day up and down the haul road. The only clue something really happened is the irate boss coming up the ladder to skin you alive.

Ive been down around these things in my own 18 wheeler making deliveries. The tires alone are higher than my rig and they get the right of way every time. It's that simple. If I thought I can get onto the haul road in front of one, Im going to pay with my life for that stupidity.

A car is a mouse to trucks. Trucks are a mouse to trains. And so trains are a no no to big haul trucks. It all works down to mass, weight, centres of gravity and velocity. Two things cannot occupy the same space at once. There is much energy released when they do try.

[espeefoamer]

With a truk that size,the truck would be driven away,and the locomotive would be scrapped.

Game Over!

[Ted Marshall]

With a truk that size,the truck would be driven away,and the locomotive would be scrapped.

Game Over!

I respectfully disagree.

[wabash1]

.....A few comments beyond my post above.....Did a little checking and payloads for some of these monsters = 400 tons...!!!

Perhaps they are almost a third higher then RR locomotives....and they are probably 3 times wider.  So, in checking....If it was an outright crash at a crossing...{which we'll not see}, I now believe it would be the RR engine laying on it's side....not the truck after the meet.

Well almost  We carry these things on flat bed behind the engine they are just as wide and they are just as tall with wheels on they are not that much higher. and they are top heavy so when the engine would hit it then would toppel over and over and over. yes the engine would have damage also but not in the amount you are thinking. Ive meet these out on county roads crossing our main our speed is 50 mph dont care to hit one . makes a mess.

[Boyd]

Now if that truck had a lift kit the train could go right under it and not hurt a thing.

[Modelcar]

.....Wabash1: 

Some of these monsters are much bigger.....Require a half dozen RR cars to haul the "truck" in pieces.  I've read of figures 36' wide...!!  Tires in the 12' high range and so on....That will be a threat to any RR engine.