Why wind socks at switch yards?

[Anonymous]

Good afternoon,
I noticed a few years ago that several switching yards in my area put up wind socks. There are 4 of them in a nearby yard here in Wisconsin, which is approx 1 1/2 miles in length.

My best guess is that if you should have a hazardous chemical spill from a derailment, etc that you could quickly determine the direction of downwind drift of the chemical.... but that's just my guess.

Any firm answers on what purpose they serve? Have you seen them elsewhere?
Thx
- Stack

[Anonymous]

You are exactly right about the wind socks and their purpose at rail yards. You will also find them at chemical plants, refineries, and other industries that ship or receive hazardous materials.

[BaltACD]

A second purpose of a Wind Sock, since in switching, cars are roling on their own momentum, either from having been 'kicked' by a yard crew or by being cut off rolling over the hump at a hump yard....The wind can make a serious difference in how fast and how far a car will roll.

Wind behind the car can cause it to roll farther and faster than intended. Wind in the face of the car may cause it to stop short of its inteneded destination and may even stop it short enough that it fouls the switching lead, thus creating problems for either the switching or hump crew as they will have to make an additional move to get the car clear of the lead to continue their switching.

[Anonymous]

...they also help the engineers decide what position to place the sails on the wind powered locomotives.

[edblysard]

The socks tell us which way to run when something falls over harder that you would like.
Ed

[csxengineer98]

a wind sock used to tell how hard to kick a car? i think not...most of the time the windsocks are out of the range of sight when flat switching..so they have no relivence to a yard crew doing work... the wind dosnt affect the cars that much when kicking them... unless its a tornado..and then the crew wouldnt be kicking cars..they would be running for shelter... its like someone said in a previose posting... its if thier is a HAZMAT spill or leak..to know what way the wind is blowing....
csx engineer

[CShaveRR]

The wind sock at the hump in Proviso is definitely used by us car retarder operators. When you're dealing with precise coupling speeds, wind direction and intensity definitely play a role. And, as we've said before, a strong wind blowing from the wrong direction will blow some cars back at you (usually empty "two-masted" cars like bulkhead flats or Center-beam cars).

[csxengineer98]

cshaverr...
i have yet to see that happen... epecialy at a hump yard...... so what your saying is if the wind is say..above 50mph..it will blow back up the hump hill?

[mudchicken]

csxengineer:

You apparently are living a charmed life wherever you be back east. CShave & Ed are NOT kidding...Anything already bled-off and free-wheeling that gets up a head of steam can roll up a slight incline with very little effort....you have the advantage of having the independent air on the loco....that's one more brake system than the freight car has.

I used to have to fix a couple of run thru rigid switches each year that the wind pushed an empty set of cars thru until we were allowed to protect the approaches to these rigid switch crossovers with flopover derails on windy days. (the cars would start moving when no switch crew was on duty...kinda spooky)

[CShaveRR]

Not up the hill ('specially on our hump!), but they have blown back from well in the track to out on the lead...and 20-30 mph is probably enough.

Carl

[Anonymous]

wind does play an important role in humping and switching! You can't tell me that if you are kicking an empty hopper into the wind, you don't have to kick it harder to send it into the track. Our hump has a sensor that displays wind speed and direction on the hump. Wether Pro-Yard takes this value into account, I don't know....but it can stop an empty shure as hell....

[jchnhtfd]

Still and all, I suspect that the main purpose is the Hazmat one; if something evil happens to a car, it sure is nice to know which way to run... but they do help in the switching, too, no doubt.

[csxengineer98]

its not some much a "charmed life" as someone so colorfully put it.... but more like i have never had or heard of any porblems with cars being blown back in flat switching... you all must have some killer winds that blow where your at... when i use to work the ground..and kick cars... wind was never an issue for us on the ground... it was always 10mph kick..unless the track we where kicking into had cars close to the end of the track..and you didnt want them to hit to hard... it seems that more times then not... if we didnt kick the cars hard enought they would get hung up becoues of the binding of the wheels going through the switches... not wind... and like i said befor... at the yards i work at...the windsocks are way out sight of a yard crews line of sight when they are switching... so how importaint is a windsock to the crew when they are switching....none
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

What does kicking cars mean exactly?

[csxengineer98]

kicking cars is when you bleed off all the air..so they roll free... cuple an engin up... and pu***hem... when you think you got enought speed to make it into the track you want..you pull the cut leaver..and stop the engin...the car will keep going...on its own
most of the time... when a conductor is makeing a cut... the cars are going by at a walking speed... and he lifts up on the cut leaver...and then tells the engineer to give him a kick....
the only time its safe to make a cut at 10mph is if the conductor is rideing the steps of the engin..and makes a cut useing the engin cut leaver
its something to see... if you got a good crew that works well together...they can switch out 150 cars in a few hours....
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

I must plead complete ignorance to what goes on in the yards but, I wanted to add my two pennies to the discussion.
From my perspective, I would think that the windsocks would be used for HAZMAT conditions. My reasoning is thus.. The folks in the yard can probably "feel" the wind and judge it's effects without use of a sock. The people inside the offices would need the socks because they can't "feel" the wind and will need to notify emergency personnel which direction the hazard may be blowing.

Paul

[Anonymous]

Csxengineer98, Thanks for the info, learn somthing new every day. It's kind of funny but a client of mine is an engineer for conrail here in columbus ohio he says the railfans know more than he does. He's been with conrail for 23 yrs.

[Anonymous]

It is true about the wind playing a factor when it comes to railroad cars. When I was younger, dad got his leg caught between two cars. Wind came up when he was between and pinched him between them.

[JoeUmp]

My sympathies to your father Strohs.

Joe

[Anonymous]

I have thought the one sock at Acca/ Hermitage CSX/ex-RF&P yard, near the shops and where the business car used to stay, was probably for the CSX helicopter. Anyone know?
Bob

[Anonymous]

I have two coments for this thread. If there is a wreck or a release of say... Chlorine Gas where the wind is blowing will take it as far as 20 miles. Even 20 miles it will kill people.

The other comments about the wind effects on freight cars, one may imagine and snicker thinking these cars cannot be stopped by the wind. WRONG! Come out to Wyoming or New Mexico and watch the fully loaded Semis lean away from the wind. I personally have had the wheels on my Semi lift off the road along the windward side and it takes some finesse to settle them back down before being pushed over and off the road.

There is a Picture of a entire passenger train (mid 30s?) blown off the track in Florida during a bad hurricane. I remember that it was a hospital train carrying people to safety at the time. The entire train of engines and heavy weight cars were laid on the sides wheels to sky along the track for it's entire length.

Good Luck!

[Anonymous]

For some time, I asked many folks why the windsocks in freight yards - we seem to have one at each track siding switch and yard out here in Carlsbad, New Mexico. Finally, I was told by a railroad man, that engineers working in the yards and sidings could tell how much of a shove to give the cars to make them go as far as they had to in order to reach their destination at the siding - the wind is definitely a factor here! Believe me, you haven't seen wind until you see windgusts in the wide open west! I'm originally from NJ and the wind doesn't blow this hard anywhere in NJ unless, as someone said they have a tornado or hurricaine. The chemical spill theory also seems to be a just reason for the windsocks!

[Noah Hofrichter]

Hey dblstack,

What yard are you talking about? who owns it? Is it the Wisconsin and Southern Railroad? Or mabey a Former Wisconsin Central Yard?

Just wondering, Noah

[tnchpsk8]

Were those engines with the masts and sails Alcos or Baldwins?

[BaltACD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar


There is a Picture of a entire passenger train (mid 30s?) blown off the track in Florida during a bad hurricane. I remember that it was a hospital train carrying people to safety at the time. The entire train of engines and heavy weight cars were laid on the sides wheels to sky along the track for it's entire length.

Good Luck!

That was the Hurricane that caused the abandonment of the Florida East Coast's Key West Extension....the railroad that went to sea.

[yellowducky]

Trains Mag. had a picture of a string of tri-level auto carriers laying on their sides, that wind had blown over. All I remember is that I think that it was out East, like maybe N.Y. or Virgina. I made reference to it probably a week ago, at work, when the wind was real strong and a trucker said his semi was all over the road and thought he was going to tip it more than once. FDM

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tnchpsk8

Were those engines with the masts and sails Alcos or Baldwins?

They were old converted steam loco's they would shove the masts right down the smoke stack. [:p]

[Anonymous]

Noah,
The yard in question is North Green Bay on the C&NW (yeah, I heard somebody had a rumor going that the C&NW sold it to some other outfit, who sold it to yet another outfit, who allegedly sold it to some Canadian deal. I never believe rumors.)
-- Stack

[cypriano]

While in college, I worked at a grain elevator during the wheat harvest. It was on the CRIP between Hutchinson and Pratt, KS.

The highway paralleled the railroad and bowed out around the grain elevator at Whiteside. From the headhouse, you could see for miles and miles.

I remember three special things about the wind there.

1. From the headhouse, I enjoyed watching the effects gusts of wind bouncing off the elevator on cars and trucks below. VW beetles were especially fun to watch. I saw one lurch 4-5 feet to the side. And these were on normal days. The highway guys posted "WIND CURRENT" signs.

2. Watching a rain storm approach. I watched the sharp line of the storm come nearer and nearer. I got down from the headhouse just in time to close the doors to prevent flooding of the in-floor hatches where trucks dumped wheat.

3. Taking a leak from the headhouse. It was like I was in a space capsule. The urine just floated off and didn't go down. It just floated off. I prayed that the wind didn't change course before gravity took over blew it back at me.

[Anonymous]

Yes as the Trucker's would know, just because you are weighing 80,000 lbs does not mean that you are safe from the wind.

I have had a tail wind in some western states that would push my truck up to 50 mph.

I can understand how the wind would effect rail cars as well the wind may only be at 5 mph but pushing on a flat surface like a rail care or a semi truck that flat surface turns into a very big sail, for example a semi truck carrying a 53' trailer now has a 477 sq' sail for the wind to play with.

In Uncle Sam’s Canoe Club (U.S. Navy), even though the ships now days do not have sails the wind catching the ships on the side can roll a ship several degrees.

So yes hazard spills kicking cars they all would be very a good reason to know what direction the wind blows. So you would know the direction evils that may be approaching from. [2c][2c][2c]