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CGW - Mankato Question

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CGW - Mankato Question
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 23, 2008 9:02 PM

I went-out for a drive today to New Ulm, MN to see what railroad sights could be seen there along the DME (didn't see much other than the old CNW depot and a DME Geep they keep in town to switch the local industries). 

On the way home, heading up Hwy 169 just north of Mankato (where I also saw diddly squat in terms of railroad activity on the old CMO), I saw the remains of a bridge that once spanned the Minnesota River to the right of the highway.  The stone block bridge supports were all that remained, and it certainly looked like it could've been a RR bridge.

Could this have been the CGW's Northfield - Mankato line?

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Posted by nanaimo73 on Saturday, August 23, 2008 9:56 PM

The Chicago and North Western crossed the river several miles north of Mankato between Kasota and St Peter, part of a branch the rejoined the mainline in New Ulm.

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=44.299366&lon=-93.9760315&z=17&l=0&m=a&v=1  

Dale
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 23, 2008 10:52 PM
That line must've been pulled before 1965, since the Official Railway Guide I have for 1965 shows that branch from New Ulm terminating at Traverse, MN.
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Posted by jrbernier on Saturday, August 23, 2008 10:54 PM

  The Minnesota River crossing you saw south of St Peter was the original Winona & St Peter(C&NW) mainline.  The Winona & St Peter bypassed Mankato, with a 'branch' into town, coming in from the north.  They later built out of Mankato west to a connection with the old mainline at New Ulm.  The last of 'original' mainline was removed about 1970.  The CGW grade was along the east side of the Minnesota River, and crossed the 'Omaha' at Benning, then ran up the hill and east to Faribault.  From downtown Mankato, it is a bike trail.  At Benning, the DM&E uses the CGW grade up the hill to a connection with the W&StP grade at Lime Siding.  This conection was installed about 1972 to get rid if the twisting grade of the original W&StP, and to align the Winona line to the entrance to the new yard north of Mankato.

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by nordique72 on Sunday, August 24, 2008 5:05 PM

To add to, and clarify what Dale and jrbernier had already mentioned- the W&StP bridge over the Minnesota River by St. Peter was abandoned in 1937 by the CNW. (CNW continued service on the old main from the west at New Ulm to St. Peter, and abandoned that section piecemeal back to it's current remnant, a small stub on the east side of New Ulm.)

This was helped by the fact that in 1899 the CNW realigned the ex-W&StP route between Mankato Jct. (renamed Burdette- on the northeast side of Mankato) and New Ulm, by extending the 1870 W&StP Mankato "branch" (the original route was planned to be built as Winona-Mankato, then at the last moment, W&StP chose to route around Mankato via St. Peter instead of through it to New Ulm. Old time politics were a main reason for the route change. The branch was part of the original surveyed main line- but it was relegated to a branch after the W&StP's change of heart).

 After the extension to New Ulm was completed the CNW's trains used this through routing down the vicious hill on Mankato's east side until September 1973- shortly after the CGW merger a plan to build a connector track on the east side of town (which was the brainchild of and financed by the state of Minnesota) at Lime Siding as jrbernier noted between the W&StP and the CGW, and the old W&StP between there through Mankato Jct to the spot where they intersected with the Omaha could be and was abandoned. The idea was a win-win for the CNW and the state- it eliminated the old eastbound grade, and it allowed trains on the former CNW to now set out at the CMO Carney Yard (built 1950) on the north side of town instead of the old East Yard downtown which frequently snarled road traffic.

After getting on the ex-CGW line at Lime Siding, the trains used the CGW to the point where they crossed the CMO (Benning)- at that point the old CGW/CMO crossing was removed and a connection on the southeast quadrant was completed to access Carney Yard. On the other side of the diamond the MILW- which paralled the CMO in from the north used the northwest connector to enter the former CGW/MILW joint traffic to access Mankato- this was abandoned when the MILW left Mankato in 1978.

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Posted by clarkfork on Monday, August 25, 2008 1:01 AM

My 1943 and 1950 timetables show subdivision 11, a line from Kasota to New Ulm.  There is a timetable schedule for No 91, a Tuesday and Friday way freight.  91's schedule orginated at Waseca and terminated at Sleepy Eye.  Apparently 91 got on the CMO at Mankato and used the CMO to Kasota.    

My 1956 timetable shows the branch (old main line) extending between St. Peter and New Ulm Jct.  So the bridge at Kasota must have been taken out of service between 1950 and 1956.  My 1964 and 1967 time tables show the branch extending between New Ulm Jct. and Traverse.

North of where the Kasota-Mankato road crosses the CMO there is a single span stone arch bridge to the west of the road.  It is a little hard to see.  I wonder if this was not part of the old W&SP line between Burdette and Kasota? 

There was a station called Caroline where the CMO, W&SP/C&NW and the CMStP&P crossed each other.  This was south of Kasota.  I remember seeing it as a CMO/Milw crossing in the 60s and 70s, the W&SP line being long gone. 

Along the gravel road north of Mankato, east of the CMO (Lime Valley road?) I have found traces (I think) of the W&SP from Burdette/Mankato Jct. to Kasota.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:38 PM

Without looking at maps and studying this information, I am having a bit of trouble following it, but I am very interested in the railroads and areas mentioned.  I do know that the CStPM&O (or its predecessor SP&SS) was re-graded and considerably re-located along the route between St. Paul and Mankato, probably quite early.  I have seen evidence of this re-location between Blakely and Henderson.  The gravel road that runs along today's UP line there to its south is the old ROW.  It hugs the bluff of the river valley.  Up until the mid 1980s, there was a gorgeous old stone arch bridge hidden in the woods, spanning a creek on the old ROW at Henderson.  I think the "superstorm" about 1988 or so took it out. 

I wonder if any of the evidence of old roadbeds or bridge remains mentioned in this thread could possibly be from this original route of today's UP.  I am also wondering if anybody has any information on the total extent of this re-grading of the original route between St. Paul and Mankato, and when it was done. 

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Posted by nordique72 on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:35 AM
I know the portion of the original CMO right of way in Mankato- which came straight down the river bluff and then turned southwesterly and ran down adjacent to 4th and Lincoln Streets in Mankato was relocated to the current riverside alignment in 1897. For years the CNW kept a short stub of the original main line as an industry track on the north side of town. It is possible much of the realignment of the rest of the line occurred at this time too- a good place to check would be Stan Mailer's book on the Omaha Road for further confirmation.

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