Railroads "Policing" Youtube?

[Fallen Flag]

Here is a perfect example of how an in-cab video could be used against a railroad in court. On "Close call with kids on bikes", a prosecuting attorney could say the engineer should have been paying more attention to his job than shooting a video, whether or not the engineer was truly negligent. Check it out:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VZP8ppi23MA&NR=1

[Murphy Siding]

Having your presence on the web scrutinized is getting widespread - witness the potential college students who are having problems due to what theyve posted on MySpace and FaceBook.

Search engines make it pretty easy.  Try Googling your own name some time.  Gets pretty scary.

For those of us who are old enough to remember our teachers threatening to put our misbehavior on the once-mythical "permanent record", it now exists and individuals are putting their less-than-exemplary behavior on it all by themselves.  And then they wonder why it's hard for them to get into their chosen college or hired.

  There's a flip side to that as well.  I have an incredibly uncommon first and last name.  I share the same name with my late father, as I am a *Junior*.  When I put my name into a search engine, a little bit of info comes up, all about my dad.  He was a Korean war vet, and he and my mom are buried in a national cemetary.  Under my mom's name, it says she is buried in the national cemetary, AND that she was in the Marine Corp for 6 years in the 60's.  How come she never told any of us kids that?

     The info on the net has, I would guess, about a 50% chance of being correct.

[Limitedclear]

I have been away from this forum for a few months, come back and this is the first thread I look at.

Has there been much tension between railroaders and railfans lately for the railroaders to come down so harshly on magicman?

I found the answers by Tree68 and Selector very helpfull as I am not working in the industry, are an ocean away etc. If I were new here and every question I had would be answered by railroaders on the forum in this way it would turn me away very quickly.

In short, LimitedClear your answer this time was particularly unhelpfull because of the way you answered and it annoyed me greatly, in youtube terms it was a thumbs down. Please, when we have a question do not answer it in this way again. I prefer you remain silent.

Sometimes the truth hurts...

I'll continue to respond as I deem appropriate. 

LC

[Limitedclear]

Here is a perfect example of how an in-cab video could be used against a railroad in court. On "Close call with kids on bikes", a prosecuting attorney could say the engineer should have been paying more attention to his job than shooting a video, whether or not the engineer was truly negligent. Check it out:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VZP8ppi23MA&NR=1

Good point. Remember that the infamous and dealy incident at Gunpow interlocking near Baltimore was cause, in part, by employees who were watching a portable TV. Not so different from recording video...

LC 

 

[PigFarmer1]

Here is a perfect example of how an in-cab video could be used against a railroad in court. On "Close call with kids on bikes", a prosecuting attorney could say the engineer should have been paying more attention to his job than shooting a video, whether or not the engineer was truly negligent. Check it out:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VZP8ppi23MA&NR=1

Good point. Remember that the infamous and dealy incident at Gunpow interlocking near Baltimore was cause, in part, by employees who were watching a portable TV. Not so different from recording video...

LC 

 

 

While I've never seen it myself I have heard stories of guys watching  DVDs in the cabs of tampers and stabilizers.   I know we've had at least one fatality inpart because of cell phone use.  There's just no good reason to use electronic devices in the cab...

[Rick Gates]

I hired on the Penn Central in March of 1973 and the rule was in place then about electronic devices...besides the usual logic about security sensitive onfo.  and inattention to the job,  I was always made aware that every rule that went into the book was a result of a death or deaths.  The rule was designed to correct the safety/security vunerability.  This is the case with many areas of governing including why a traffic light or stop sign may be installed at an intersection.  Be interesting to know what precise incident caused the rule to be written.

[gardendance]

ff

What I am asking is, dont you think that railroads should have more important things to do than be looking at videos on youtube to make sure there is no cab videos?

Yes they should have more important things to do, but do you know that they found this via a deliberate unprompted search? Maybe the railroad's investigator is also a fan, and found it on his own time. Off duty cops have been known to discover crime. My wife would definitely agree that he and I have much better things we should be doing than watching train videos. And just like the people who try to keep us safe from pornography, I wouldn't put it past him to have scrutinized and maybe made copies before he tried to enforce the rule that yanked them. For purposes related to the investigation of course.

Do truck companies search youtube trying to catch one of their drivers making videos of the cab in their truck for truck fans? I dont believe so.

While the video's getting made I think train and truck companies have similar worries. What is it that makes you think trucking companies don't look?

One possibility is that once the videos been made and distributed they have less reason than railroads. Somebody is taking video from the Peanut Butter and Jelly RR's cab of the PB&J's right of way, so it's possible to identify that a PB&J employee approved of that particular video. 

A Reckless and Polluting Trucking Company employee taking a video out of his cab will capture purple mountains' majesty and amber waves of grain on our nation's highways. Unless he shoots some identifying insignia, or has a voice over "This is Dan Jerdriver coming to you from the cab of R&P Trucking 603 cruising down Main St, oops, was that a crowded school yard I just drove through" there's not much for D&P Trucking to fear once the video gets on the internet. Again WHILE the video's being made the truck and the railroad have similar concerns, but the final product has more potential harm for the railroad.

I know its a matter of "safety" but how does having a camera sitting in the cab (not being held) in any way affect the safety of the train? I can understand the engineer holding the camera and trying to run it at the same time; but if the train is stopped and your holding it or if it is sitting on the dash, is it really that unsafe?

I'd agree in a perfect world. Of course a perfect world is the one where I'm the engineer-cameraman and I've got my choice of steam, diesel or electric. Possible concerns could be:

1. the crew has some important things to do even before moving the locomotive, so even setting up the camera will distract them. Maybe the brakeman's walking the train, the engineer's setting up the camera, meanwhile he doesn't see Osama plant a bomb 5 cars back.

2. There's no guarantee, even if the camera got set up before the train moved that it will stay sitting on the dash. It just so happens there's a Victoria's Secret swimsuit shoot. Without a camera he'll just turn his head. In this case he'll turn his head, then lunge forward to get the camera off the dash and look through the viewfinder to aim at the bathing suits. That assumes he's a professional. If he's also a foamer there's the added dithering to decide whether he wants to look at the moving G strings or the moving string of G's. (It's not as funny if I have to explain it. Pennsyvania Railroad GG1 locomotive)

I digress a bit from topic, what about folks who say cell phone conversations are no more distracting than conversations between driver and passengers? The difference is that the passenger might just stop the conversation to say "Oh my God look out for that car", something the cell phone person is unlikely to know about, in fact they might just say "pay attention to me, what I have to say is more important than anything you could be doing right now".

Would you allow someone to put a camera in your car?

We're not talking about you allowing some stranger to put a camera in your car while you're driving. Isn't this thread more about allowing your chaufer to use a camera while he's driving your car? My vote is the same as a few others I've seen, it's your car, your paying the chaufer, it's your decision. It's the railroad's train, they're paying the crew, it's their decision. We can debate the wisdom, but they do have the right to do as they see fit.

Besides the railroads ought to be thankful for more eyeballs on thier trains. Makes things safer and have evidence should something really bad happen.

Double edged sword. I agree with you, I feel, all other things being equal, more evidence is better than less, and the truth will set you free. There are those however who, rightly or wrongly, feel that videos can be manipulated. OJ Simpson claimed he never owned a pair of Bruno Magli shoes, even though the prosecution presented photos that they said showed him wearing them.

its not just  youtube they look at.. big brother from the railroads is everywhere where employees might post censitive company information for the public.. even here...

I find this an interesting concept, you're not the only one on this thread who's referred to it, and I've seen varying degrees of sensibility and hypocricy in the world in general. We post for the public, that means we want people to see our stuff, yet some then complain when the wrong people see that posting and take action we don't like.

My paranoia goes a bit more to worrying about somebody else putting something out and making it seem as if it's mine. Maybe one of the reasons this engineer didn't get disciplined is that the railroad couldn't prove it was actually his? Did he pan the camera onto his face and announce "I'm D. Scruntled Employee, here's my video of how lousy this railroad works"? Do we know that the railroad didn't just memo all the crews "if whoever did this yanks the videos we'll end the investigation"? Otherwise I guess they'd have to compel youtube to divulge some info: credit card number, ip address... stuff they'd probably need a subpeona for.

[zugmann]

There will always be the one person that takes it too far.  The one crew too busy videoing that they roll through a stop signal.  A engineer too busy messign with a camera that he isn't paying attention to his conductor's "washout" signal and goes through a switch or derail, or maks a hard coupling with the conductor having to bail off...

 

[selector]

Besides, when in the cab, you're on your employer's turf and dime.  He/she/they call the shots so to speak.  A crewmember is not being paid to take videos while on the job.

My contractor relates a story where he kept noticing a young labourer standing, holding a small device, and pressing buttons on it.  He'd look again and the young fella was backdoing what he was there for.  Five minutes later, back to the hand-held device and his finger tapping.  The contractor finally wandered over and noticed that the youth was text-messaging.  You can be sure he put a clamp on that immediately, and in no uncertain terms told the guy that he was not being paid to keep up on his e-mail and with what his buds were doing in the valley.  Paid breaks were already part of the collective agreement between union and employers by provincial law.  He didn't feel he was also obliged to pay the young fella to while away time keeping up with his social network.  Now, this is not the same thing, but the principle is the same; when you are on the job, you are assumed to have agreed to terms of reference and/or a job description, and I would be amazed to find that one of the terms says you are expected to periodically take up a video camera and make recordings so that you can post them on a public forum or viewing host site.

-Crandell

[gardendance]

I know its a matter of "safety" but how does having a camera sitting in the cab (not being held) in any way affect the safety of the train? I can understand the engineer holding the camera and trying to run it at the same time; but if the train is stopped and your holding it or if it is sitting on the dash, is it really that unsafe?

I hope I'm not beating a dead horse, I already mentioned the Victoria's Secret swimsuit scenario, but I feel it's unlikely that our fledgling Mr. Demille or Fellini will stop the train so he can safely change the camera's tape when it runs out. And even if he did stop the train, the railroad has a legitimate reason to be upset, and is really likely to notice and start an investigation, even if they hadn't been inclined before.

[csxengineer98]

its not just  youtube they look at.. big brother from the railroads is everywhere where employees might post censitive company information for the public.. even here...

csx engineer 

So, employees of any given company should be able to post sensitive company information on the web??? I don't follow.... It's not "Big Brother", it is a business protecting it's interests.  In this electronic information age, companies have to take steps to make sure that their trade secrets, procedures, and etc, are not made public, or made available to people who shouldn't see them.  If a group of people put their money together to develop a business idea, then, shouldn't they have the right to reasonably protect that investment?  Companies, from Microsoft to Kellogg's Cereal have trade secrets, procedures, and other things that they must protect from falling into the hands of their competitors, lest they lose their competitive edge.  So what if a company goes to forums and other message boards that are industry specific (Trains.com could be considered "industry specific") looking to see if sensitive things leak out about their company.  I worked at a company about 10 years ago, where we dealt with the manufacture of color laser printers, a field that was highly competitive back in the late 90's. Since I worked in the Field Service unit of the company and had access to all of the technical info about the company's products, I had to sign a confidentiality agreement, and my email and phone calls were regularly monitored, as was everyone else's in my department. 

So, if the BNSF yanks the videos on You Tube, then that's their business.  The first time I saw a "cab ride" video on there, I was wondering just what the crew member was thinking.  First off, I don't find the videos all that interesting, but that's beside the point.  My first comment when I saw one was "Wow, someone is going to get in trouble." 

Somehow or another, the gap between "rails" and "fans" has got be closed.  As fans, we need to start appreciating the fact that the guys behind the throttle are working, and are not there to entertain us, and the "rails" have to realize that not all of us are "foaming at the mouth geeks" looking to get in their way.  Also, as fans, we have to realize that the rails, and the railroads don't "owe" us anything.  They are engaged in the movement of freight and passengers around the country in order to make a profit.  All the railroads have PR offices, and do things to present a friendly face to the general public, which is what any wise company does, but that's where it starts and stops.  They don't owe us cab ride videos, or clean locomotives, or constantly waving, ever cheerful employees, or matching paint schemes, for that matter.  What rails and fans owe each other is some respect, and common courtesy, but like anything else those have to be earned.  

I don't take issue with LC's answers at all... he's telling it how it is, and well, that's it then.

the point i was making was the the railroads arnt just watching youtube..they watch any sight where railroad employees might gather on the net... such as this sight.. and yes..its the railrods big brother.. not the goverments big brother..but im sure the DHS..FBI..and other fed and state govermement security aggenceces take a look at places like this to keep an eye on things too.. maybe its both to them working together..who knows..im not privy to that level of information about the companys security and how they go about checking for leaks and breaches... as for the posting information..i never once said that it was ok to do.. i stated that carriers do check for things to see if things are leaked...

csx engineer 

First off I think DHS, and the FBI would only come here if they had a reason. And, if the railroads (as well as any other big company) are "here", if you will, it is their right to react, and to protect their interests.  It's not "Big Brother", that is an ominous sounding name applying to an all-seeing, all-knowing entity, which the railroads are not.  If, however, they find that there are things on any given site that may be a cause for concern, I am sure that they then look into it, and if action is warranted they take it.... but, I am sure they do not spy on every person that works for them.... what company on this earth has those kinds of resources? 

  

 

once agin i never said that they "spy" on every employee.. the carriers and goverment do check out sights like this from time to time.. if they didnt then how did they find the said videos on youtube from that employee making them? regardless if its some office employee at HQ or a department that "makes rounds" on the net to look for things.. if someone wasnt doing it then they wouldnt have found the videos on youtube and have them taken down would they? the question was do the railroad "police" the net.. the awnser is yes.. regardless how they go about it is not relevent..the point is they do!!!!

csx engineer 

[Rick Gates]

Wrong again.  There were not any unauthorized electronic devices involved in the Chase accident.  We've been over this territory.....LC

[gardendance]

What's the Chase incident? Is that the multi fatalit accident at the Gunpowder River Maryland where a string of Conrail locomotives went past a stop signal and then collided with an overtaking AMTRAK train? I thought that among other things the Conrail crew had a television set on. Is that not true? If true, then isn't that an electronic device, and isn't it unauthorized?

[csxengineer98]

What's the Chase incident? Is that the multi fatalit accident at the Gunpowder River Maryland where a string of Conrail locomotives went past a stop signal and then collided with an overtaking AMTRAK train? I thought that among other things the Conrail crew had a television set on. Is that not true? If true, then isn't that an electronic device, and isn't it unauthorized?

no gates was high from smoking pot then to save his own skin to get a lesser prison sentence..rolled over on the whole rail industory saying that we where all high..drunk or both

csx engineer 

[Randy Stahl]

I hired on the Penn Central in March of 1973 and the rule was in place then about electronic devices...besides the usual logic about security sensitive onfo.  and inattention to the job,  I was always made aware that every rule that went into the book was a result of a death or deaths.  The rule was designed to correct the safety/security vunerability.  This is the case with many areas of governing including why a traffic light or stop sign may be installed at an intersection.  Be interesting to know what precise incident caused the rule to be written.

They really had electronic devices in 1973 ???????

[jeaton]

I hired on the Penn Central in March of 1973 and the rule was in place then about electronic devices...besides the usual logic about security sensitive onfo.  and inattention to the job,  I was always made aware that every rule that went into the book was a result of a death or deaths.  The rule was designed to correct the safety/security vunerability.  This is the case with many areas of governing including why a traffic light or stop sign may be installed at an intersection.  Be interesting to know what precise incident caused the rule to be written.

They really had electronic devices in 1973 ???????

I had a 21 inch color TV.  It was a real pain to find an electrical outlet on a passenger train.

[TimChgo9]

its not just  youtube they look at.. big brother from the railroads is everywhere where employees might post censitive company information for the public.. even here...

csx engineer 

So, employees of any given company should be able to post sensitive company information on the web??? I don't follow.... It's not "Big Brother", it is a business protecting it's interests.  In this electronic information age, companies have to take steps to make sure that their trade secrets, procedures, and etc, are not made public, or made available to people who shouldn't see them.  If a group of people put their money together to develop a business idea, then, shouldn't they have the right to reasonably protect that investment?  Companies, from Microsoft to Kellogg's Cereal have trade secrets, procedures, and other things that they must protect from falling into the hands of their competitors, lest they lose their competitive edge.  So what if a company goes to forums and other message boards that are industry specific (Trains.com could be considered "industry specific") looking to see if sensitive things leak out about their company.  I worked at a company about 10 years ago, where we dealt with the manufacture of color laser printers, a field that was highly competitive back in the late 90's. Since I worked in the Field Service unit of the company and had access to all of the technical info about the company's products, I had to sign a confidentiality agreement, and my email and phone calls were regularly monitored, as was everyone else's in my department. 

So, if the BNSF yanks the videos on You Tube, then that's their business.  The first time I saw a "cab ride" video on there, I was wondering just what the crew member was thinking.  First off, I don't find the videos all that interesting, but that's beside the point.  My first comment when I saw one was "Wow, someone is going to get in trouble." 

Somehow or another, the gap between "rails" and "fans" has got be closed.  As fans, we need to start appreciating the fact that the guys behind the throttle are working, and are not there to entertain us, and the "rails" have to realize that not all of us are "foaming at the mouth geeks" looking to get in their way.  Also, as fans, we have to realize that the rails, and the railroads don't "owe" us anything.  They are engaged in the movement of freight and passengers around the country in order to make a profit.  All the railroads have PR offices, and do things to present a friendly face to the general public, which is what any wise company does, but that's where it starts and stops.  They don't owe us cab ride videos, or clean locomotives, or constantly waving, ever cheerful employees, or matching paint schemes, for that matter.  What rails and fans owe each other is some respect, and common courtesy, but like anything else those have to be earned.  

I don't take issue with LC's answers at all... he's telling it how it is, and well, that's it then.

the point i was making was the the railroads arnt just watching youtube..they watch any sight where railroad employees might gather on the net... such as this sight.. and yes..its the railrods big brother.. not the goverments big brother..but im sure the DHS..FBI..and other fed and state govermement security aggenceces take a look at places like this to keep an eye on things too.. maybe its both to them working together..who knows..im not privy to that level of information about the companys security and how they go about checking for leaks and breaches... as for the posting information..i never once said that it was ok to do.. i stated that carriers do check for things to see if things are leaked...

csx engineer 

First off I think DHS, and the FBI would only come here if they had a reason. And, if the railroads (as well as any other big company) are "here", if you will, it is their right to react, and to protect their interests.  It's not "Big Brother", that is an ominous sounding name applying to an all-seeing, all-knowing entity, which the railroads are not.  If, however, they find that there are things on any given site that may be a cause for concern, I am sure that they then look into it, and if action is warranted they take it.... but, I am sure they do not spy on every person that works for them.... what company on this earth has those kinds of resources? 

  

 

once agin i never said that they "spy" on every employee.. the carriers and goverment do check out sights like this from time to time.. if they didnt then how did they find the said videos on youtube from that employee making them? regardless if its some office employee at HQ or a department that "makes rounds" on the net to look for things.. if someone wasnt doing it then they wouldnt have found the videos on youtube and have them taken down would they? the question was do the railroad "police" the net.. the awnser is yes.. regardless how they go about it is not relevent..the point is they do!!!!

csx engineer 

Like I said, if they get a tip, or some information that things are out there, that shouldn't be, then they do something about it.  I think we are both saying the same thing here.  I just  think using terms like "Big Brother" are a bit much.  "Policing" the net?  Perhaps, I would think a better term would be "monitoring"... but at this point we are splitting hairs.  Nonetheless I am sure (just like you are)  every company out there that has any kind of concern about their success and/or trade security has a person, or persons who check into things as they arise.  I would imagine that would be someone in the company's designated Legal Department.  

[gardendance]

What's the Chase incident? Is that the multi fatalit accident at the Gunpowder River Maryland where a string of Conrail locomotives went past a stop signal and then collided with an overtaking AMTRAK train? I thought that among other things the Conrail crew had a television set on. Is that not true? If true, then isn't that an electronic device, and isn't it unauthorized?

no gates was high from smoking pot then to save his own skin to get a lesser prison sentence..rolled over on the whole rail industory saying that we where all high..drunk or both

csx engineer 

I knew about the marijuana aspect, but I thought I had read that the crew also had a television set on in the cab, or at least someone found a television set on the ground nearby, sothere was at least speculation the crew was watching tv as well as getting high, as well as going past the stop sign, and jettisoned whatever incriminating evidence they could think of.

The accident scene is suburban or rural residential approaching a bridge, so I'm guessing the right of way is at the same grade as the surrounding houses, or even on an embankment. Most trash dumping I see is urban into cuts or fills, makes it unlikely in my opinion that a regular litterbug would have tossed a tv onto the railroad, hence my guess that any tv, if it did exist, probably came from a railroad crew.

So back to

Wrong again.  There were not any unauthorized electronic devices involved in the Chase accident.  We've been over this territory.....LC

Why do you say there were not any unauthorized electronic devices? Please forgive me if you've been over this territory, unfortunately I have not. Could you give me a pointer to whatever previous discussion you've had?

[TimChgo9]

There was a thread on this previously, probably a year or two ago, if I remember correctly.

I don't think this thread needs to be hijacked to go after Mr. Gates again.  I think if you locate the other thread, that should pretty much explain everything. 

[gardendance]

Wrong again.  There were not any unauthorized electronic devices involved in the Chase accident.  We've been over this territory.....LC

There was a thread on this previously, probably a year or two ago, if I remember correctly.

I don't think this thread needs to be hijacked to go after Mr. Gates again.  I think if you locate the other thread, that should pretty much explain everything. 

thanks, I'll try to look for it. I agree that this thread doesn't need to be hijacked, however in my defense I only started nitpicking about the television set because of the first post that said there were no electronic devices. If that post had said "we went over this territory in post named 'Chase accident' a year ago" I probably would have looked for that post first, before asking the guy who made the comment to explain himself.

I'm going to assume meanwhile that the impression I had gotten that there was a television set involved is false.

[Limitedclear]

Wrong again.  There were not any unauthorized electronic devices involved in the Chase accident.  We've been over this territory.....LC

Hmmm. I recalled that report from the media at the time, but as I wasn't there I'll defer to your version of events.

In any event the rule is still a good one and there have more recently been at least two serious incidents caused by cellphone use on moving trains that I am aware of, probably many more.

LC

[gardendance]

ok, I found the thread that mentioned no tv set in the Chase accident.

Although I had noticed the same last name, Gates, and I had my suspicions, I did not know that the Gates from the accident was the same as our Gates userid.

But this comes back to something I already hinted at in this thread, but I think bears repeating, or paraphrasing. The ability to present any personality you choose is both the blessing and the curse of the internet. Any dweeb can try to create a login and claim to be the engineer from the Chase accident, or our videographer "TheRecorder". In fact Mr. Gates provided some information on that thread that he seems to have felt would lead others to be reassured that he was indeed whom he claimed to be.

We've had warnings in this thread to look out for Big Brother watching. Unfortunately Big Brother might find a presence on the web that is somebody else pretending to be you. Again, maybe one of the reasons why "TheRecorder" did not get disciplined is because the railroad couldn't prove that a particular crewmember was actually the person who recorded and posted the videos.

Does anybody think the railroad could fire somebody just because "TheRecorder"'s youtube profile had his name? All I'd do is say "that's not me, I never signed up for youtube".

I had mentioned before that maybe they'd subpeona youtube to get a credit card, maybe that would be proof enough, but now I thik I remember that youtube is free, there's probably no credit card. So in addition to a subpoena the railroad needs to pay a forensic programmer to track down the computer that submitted the video, and if "TheRecorder" used a library or Kinko's then they'd have just wasted lots of money. I still think they probably just told everybody that if the videos get removed they'll drop the investigation.

[gardendance]

This thread's been about electronic devices, and one initial suposition was that setting up a video camera and leaving it run should not adversely affect an engineer's performance.

But what are the rules, if any, about old fashioned non-electronic still cameras? I'm assuming railroads would frown on engineers taking snapshots while the train's moving, and that this would be a more serious problem, or at least afford fewer excuses than the presetup video camera.

[Andrew Falconer]

Railroads could mount cameras like are use for NASCAR races to offer their own videos on the offical railroad web sites.

Andrew Falconer

[kolechovski]

So...did anyone make any copies of the vids? I'd love to find out what I've been missing!

[tree68]

Railroads could mount cameras like are use for NASCAR races to offer their own videos on the offical railroad web sites.

Andrew Falconer

Following the GMA train around was kinda fun - a live cam would have been even more interesting.

Aside from figuring out who's going to pay the cost of running such a system, I'm sure the law department would have a field day with it...

[citylimits]

One of the best know railroaders on youtube was a guy with the user named "TheRecorder". He had alot of video of train including in-cab videos of rides and sitting at a signal videoing other trains go by.

However, about a month or 2 ago, BNSF (who he worked for) found his videos on youtube and made him take all of them off. This made alot of his friends and hundreds of subscribers quite angry. He also luckily still continues to work for BNSF.

I am not suprised that their arent many cab videos on youtube, with the way that it is "policed". However, the ones that are are exceptionaly good made and informative videos.

What I am asking is, dont you think that railroads should have more important things to do than be looking at videos on youtube to make sure there is no cab videos?

Do truck companies search youtube trying to catch one of their drivers making videos of the cab in their truck for truck fans? I dont believe so.

I know its a matter of "safety" but how does having a camera sitting in the cab (not being held) in any way affect the safety of the train? I can understand the engineer holding the camera and trying to run it at the same time; but if the train is stopped and your holding it or if it is sitting on the dash, is it really that unsafe?

 

Well magicman710, the railroads certainly do have better ways to spend their time  - regretably however, their lawyers don't

Maybe this is kind of like a modern cyber version of the old time yard bulls swinging their billy clubs.

Bruce

[Limitedclear]

One of the best know railroaders on youtube was a guy with the user named "TheRecorder". He had alot of video of train including in-cab videos of rides and sitting at a signal videoing other trains go by.

However, about a month or 2 ago, BNSF (who he worked for) found his videos on youtube and made him take all of them off. This made alot of his friends and hundreds of subscribers quite angry. He also luckily still continues to work for BNSF.

I am not suprised that their arent many cab videos on youtube, with the way that it is "policed". However, the ones that are are exceptionaly good made and informative videos.

What I am asking is, dont you think that railroads should have more important things to do than be looking at videos on youtube to make sure there is no cab videos?

Do truck companies search youtube trying to catch one of their drivers making videos of the cab in their truck for truck fans? I dont believe so.

I know its a matter of "safety" but how does having a camera sitting in the cab (not being held) in any way affect the safety of the train? I can understand the engineer holding the camera and trying to run it at the same time; but if the train is stopped and your holding it or if it is sitting on the dash, is it really that unsafe?

 

Well magicman710, the railroads certainly do have better ways to spend their time  - regretably however, their lawyers don't

Maybe this is kind of like a modern cyber version of the old time yard bulls swinging their billy clubs.

Bruce

Having a camera in the cab distracts the crew from their work. Given the new anti-cell phone directive by FRA in Emergency Order #26 I would expect that employees using digital cameras in the cab (whether in cell phones or not) will be subject to sanctions and potentially FRA civil penalties as well.

LC

[Ham Radio]

Can't speak for the other railroads, but Union Pacific Police also monitor freight hopping websites when the trespassers post their trip reports and favorite catch-out locations.  UP been known to lurk on railfan boards as well in the event of a local issue.

Just be careful what you post, you never know who's reading.  That's common sense.

 

[penncentral2002]

Recently I went to a CLE (continuing legal education for non-attorneys) event on E-Discovery.  It is now considered standard practice probably to the point where a lawyer would be committing legal malpractice to not GOOGLE(R) all of the parties and witnesses to a lawsuit or criminal case.  One has to consider that anything anybody posts to the internet can and will be discovered.  Perhaps sites like YOUTUBE(R) should post something like the Miranda warning "Anything you post here can and will be used against you in a court of law."  

If you see in-cab videos on a site like YOUTUBE(R) or photos, they could be authorized videos which have been cleared by legal - railroads have PR departments like any other business and they may decide that releasing some authorized in cab videos are a way to eliminate employees from making unauthorized videos.

 Of course, I know there are some certain photos on rrpicturearchives which make me wince as an attorney who has done employment law in the past - because I recognize that people are putting their jobs at risk if the railroad management would see the photos because they show violations of rules and conduct that does not rise to the level of care.  Of course, I also know that while compliance with the federal and railroad rules or customs, does not show the absence of negligence (this is the famous Hand formula from United States v. Carroll Towing) the violation of safety rules is per se negligence.

I'd expect that in the future (if they haven't done so already), railroads will include in their employment agreements that employees will not take unauthorized photos or make videos while on duty under penalty of termination.  Of course, off duty, railroad employees like every other American enjoys the same First Amendment right to take photos of trains from public property on their days off - but they are not going to be able to use their special access by virtue of being a railroad employee to get shots that the general public cannot.