GE painted conrail units C40-8w's like this.
CRCYC wrote- This is how a C40-8W looks when it rolls out of the paint shop at General Electric's Erie, PA plant. The paint is so vibrant that it looks almost unreal. Within several months, the units will look like they have been in service for 20 years.
But they faded to this, looks like 20 years of service.
The M&StL eventually repainted each of their Alco RS-1s in unique color schemes because they figured that if they all looked the same, the pubic might think that they only owned one. If they were going to spend the money on several units, they wanted the public to know that.
silicon212 wrote: tree68 wrote:You're right - we've been looking at this wrong all along. In reality, it's GE that's got the color wrong.... <devils advocate> Yes, if you consider old ATSF locomotives that remain unpatched, say Warbonnets, you will instantly note the EMD painted units are all still decent looking while the red on the GE has faded to pink! Perhaps, just maybe, GE took this into consideration when they painted their units DARKER than the EMD units! </devils advocate>
tree68 wrote:You're right - we've been looking at this wrong all along. In reality, it's GE that's got the color wrong....
<devils advocate> Yes, if you consider old ATSF locomotives that remain unpatched, say Warbonnets, you will instantly note the EMD painted units are all still decent looking while the red on the GE has faded to pink! Perhaps, just maybe, GE took this into consideration when they painted their units DARKER than the EMD units! </devils advocate>
Either that or GE got this paint right and the ATSF wrong.
Dan
I've never been in a position to compare colors on the two builders' locomotives. I have the feeling, though, that it may be a paint problem, not necessarily a problem with the builders per se.
I remember when a bunch of newer Rock Island box cars came over to CNW. Three builders were represented: FMC, Evans, and Pullman Standard. The FMC cars looked all right, the Pullman Standard blue cars looked even better, but the Evans Products cars looked chalky, and eventually rusty. The white Pullman Standard cars began to look rusty by the time UP took over. Ironically, the better-looking cars have all been repainted, and of these three the only ones you're likely to see in original Rock Island paint any more are some Evans-built cars, operating under their fourth or fifth operators.
Same thing was observed on CNW-built covered hoppers. Pullman Standard's order of 1700 CNW cars had a lovely shade of green when they were delivered, but it weathered to a chalky-looking color. A previous order of green cars eventually turned nearly blue--in more than one case blue was used by painters doing touch-up work! On the other hand, CNW got a batch of covered hoppers from FMC whose paint held up extraordinarily well.
I'm pretty sure GE and EMD use different primer colors, and probably have different suppliers for the paint. Could CSX possibly specify the paint suppliers for all of its paint? I believe that that's how CSX's "bright future" paint scheme got its start back whenever--with paint chips all showing one manufacturer and one color each for blue, yellow, and gray.
Sometimes the finish coating can go awry, too--there are a bunch of UP SD60s and other units out there that look like they have a serious plague, because the clear coat wore away in places.
If CSX has gone with cheaper colors or application methods, however, for more recent production, it wouldn't be the first time. I can't forget how appalled and saddened I was one time (back in C&O days) to see freight cars being repainted inside the Raceland Shops--rusty areas were being painted over without preparation, and the finished product appeared to be no less cratered in texture (though fresher in color) than when it rolled in. When I asked a management-type tour guide about this, I was informed that "the railroad wanted the cars painted".
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Yeah, how come we're villifying EMD here?
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Ya just couldn't help yer self, could ya? Stirring the pot, huh! I can see it now.
ps: ya got any fall color up your way yet?
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
rrnut282 wrote: magicman710 wrote: One thing that has always bothered me is that EMD always paints their CSX SD70ACe's with a light blue, instead of a dark blue, and this personally makes the engine look bad. The true CSX YN3 paint scheme, with the dark blue and deluxe gold, is the best looking paint scheme on the rails, IMHO... But I think that the light blue on the SD70ACe's really do bad to the YN3 and the SD70ACe itself, it just doesnt look right. Is their a reason that EMD uses a light instead of dark blue?After wading through three pages of devisiveness, I was asking myself, "did I miss something in the original post?" I don't see any whining, pontification, or lack of consideration for the people working in them here. I see an opinion about the color of paint followed by a legitimate QUESTION seeking the reason for the difference.
magicman710 wrote: One thing that has always bothered me is that EMD always paints their CSX SD70ACe's with a light blue, instead of a dark blue, and this personally makes the engine look bad. The true CSX YN3 paint scheme, with the dark blue and deluxe gold, is the best looking paint scheme on the rails, IMHO... But I think that the light blue on the SD70ACe's really do bad to the YN3 and the SD70ACe itself, it just doesnt look right. Is their a reason that EMD uses a light instead of dark blue?
One thing that has always bothered me is that EMD always paints their CSX SD70ACe's with a light blue, instead of a dark blue, and this personally makes the engine look bad. The true CSX YN3 paint scheme, with the dark blue and deluxe gold, is the best looking paint scheme on the rails, IMHO... But I think that the light blue on the SD70ACe's really do bad to the YN3 and the SD70ACe itself, it just doesnt look right.
Is their a reason that EMD uses a light instead of dark blue?
After wading through three pages of devisiveness, I was asking myself, "did I miss something in the original post?" I don't see any whining, pontification, or lack of consideration for the people working in them here. I see an opinion about the color of paint followed by a legitimate QUESTION seeking the reason for the difference.
Amen!
Willy
Have you ever heard of the broken window theory? It goes something like this: a broken window in a neighborhood left unrepaired leads to the thought that the area is run-down. It isn't long before people stop painting their picket fences or their business. Soon graffiti, gangs, prostitution, and drug dealers show up, because "if no-one cares about that window, no-one will care what else goes on, too."
Perception is reality. If the managers in charge of CSX don't care about the appearance of their locomotives, what else don't they care about? This is thought process is followed by shippers, lowly railfans, and eventually stockholders.
Cant we just all get Along!rk
Actually I saw 4 very dirty off colored NS units today , and they looked mighty fine!
TimChgo9 wrote: Yeah, I heard that noise too, as soon as I saw the thread title. "Such mighty conflicts that arise from trivial issues"... or something like that. I see CSX come through my area on the BNSF and on the IHB, and I have noted the color disparity......and didn't care.... It's one thing to ask about it, and another to whine. If it's a problem, I would think that CSX management would have addressed it. I spend alot of time photographing trains, and I notice alot of things, but, since I am not totally into the "technical" side of ralifanning as it were I really don't care about them enough to want to post something here. What I don't understand is the whining that goes on about why railroads do, or don't do some trivial thing that some modeler is freaking out about. What difference does it make to you? Really... what is the big deal? The paralell to me is back in the day when I was a firefighter, and some apparatus geek would come by station and want to take some pictures, and then complain about the fact that we had the low mount preconnects on the engine as opposed to the high mount preconnects, or that we stopped using hard suction hoses, or something similar. Frankly, it doesn't matter to me if the color is a shade off, and any time I have seen it, I wrote it off to sun fading, or something else. I didn't sit around wondering why EMD "couldn't get it right".
Yeah, I heard that noise too, as soon as I saw the thread title. "Such mighty conflicts that arise from trivial issues"... or something like that. I see CSX come through my area on the BNSF and on the IHB, and I have noted the color disparity......and didn't care....
It's one thing to ask about it, and another to whine. If it's a problem, I would think that CSX management would have addressed it. I spend alot of time photographing trains, and I notice alot of things, but, since I am not totally into the "technical" side of ralifanning as it were I really don't care about them enough to want to post something here. What I don't understand is the whining that goes on about why railroads do, or don't do some trivial thing that some modeler is freaking out about. What difference does it make to you? Really... what is the big deal?
The paralell to me is back in the day when I was a firefighter, and some apparatus geek would come by station and want to take some pictures, and then complain about the fact that we had the low mount preconnects on the engine as opposed to the high mount preconnects, or that we stopped using hard suction hoses, or something similar.
Frankly, it doesn't matter to me if the color is a shade off, and any time I have seen it, I wrote it off to sun fading, or something else. I didn't sit around wondering why EMD "couldn't get it right".
I guess the original issue can't be so trivial after all if trivialising it warrants four pragraphs?
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zugmann wrote: CRRRRRAAAASSSSSSHHHHHH That is the sound of the chasm between rails and fans on here widening...
CRRRRRAAAASSSSSSHHHHHH
That is the sound of the chasm between rails and fans on here widening...
Pasadena Sub wrote: Are there really two different colors? Seems like the manufacturers would be painting to eaxct CSX specs. Regardless of aesthetics, these are multi-million dollar pieces of equipment, and I am sure the railroad would be pretty grumpy if their equipment did not show up in the color ordered. Here are some pics of SD70ACe locos lashed up to a GE, both in YN3. The blues look pretty darn close to me. Of course I am assuming all of the SD70ACes out there are wearing factory paint, and I realize not all of these units are factory fresh:Jamie
Are there really two different colors? Seems like the manufacturers would be painting to eaxct CSX specs. Regardless of aesthetics, these are multi-million dollar pieces of equipment, and I am sure the railroad would be pretty grumpy if their equipment did not show up in the color ordered. Here are some pics of SD70ACe locos lashed up to a GE, both in YN3. The blues look pretty darn close to me. Of course I am assuming all of the SD70ACes out there are wearing factory paint, and I realize not all of these units are factory fresh:
Jamie
On the Nose of the first ACe pic it says junk, lol
magicman710 wrote: Let me make this clear; I am not a foamer. I am a railfan. I do not foam at the mouth when a train goes by. However, just because I am not a foamer does not mean I can't complain about a paint scheme. It is a known fact that the paint EMD uses on their CSX locomotives is different than the paint GE uses. EMD's is lighter. And no, I do not believe it has anything to do with lighting. It is nearly impossible for at least 95% of all photos of SD70ACe's I have scene to be in the lighting conditions for it to look light light paint. It IS light paint.I am glad some later posters got my actual intention of this thread. After all this is a TRAINS forum. It is a forum to discuss anything and everything about trains, within the allowable limits set forth of course. And I believe a discussion on how 2 different manufactors use different paint, which in the end makes the locomotives of one manufactor look lighter than the other is actually a legitimate discussion.And I also dont believe that certain people on this forum have the right to say what topics are "fit" for them. If you dont like the discussion, all you have to do is hit the back button. Thats all I have to say.
Let me make this clear; I am not a foamer. I am a railfan. I do not foam at the mouth when a train goes by. However, just because I am not a foamer does not mean I can't complain about a paint scheme.
It is a known fact that the paint EMD uses on their CSX locomotives is different than the paint GE uses. EMD's is lighter. And no, I do not believe it has anything to do with lighting. It is nearly impossible for at least 95% of all photos of SD70ACe's I have scene to be in the lighting conditions for it to look light light paint. It IS light paint.
I am glad some later posters got my actual intention of this thread. After all this is a TRAINS forum. It is a forum to discuss anything and everything about trains, within the allowable limits set forth of course. And I believe a discussion on how 2 different manufactors use different paint, which in the end makes the locomotives of one manufactor look lighter than the other is actually a legitimate discussion.
And I also dont believe that certain people on this forum have the right to say what topics are "fit" for them. If you dont like the discussion, all you have to do is hit the back button.
Thats all I have to say.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
The problem here, is that you are starting to sound like you are running for office. In a previous post, you said that this was 'railfan forums'. Now you acknowledge that it is indeed 'Trains.com' forums.
If it is a "KNOWN" fact that the two manufacturers use a different color paint, where is your proof? No one from GE or EMD seem to be on this thread, and you are guessing.
You also say that you don't believe that "certain people" should don't have the right to say what is fit for them to discuss on this website...well you have just opened up a new can of worms with that statement. First of all, that is EXACTLY what you are doing. Telling the rest of us that we have no right to comment on your little whine session about paint color. Secondly, who are "certain people"??? That sounds very much like discrimination! You don't even know the background of the people you are complaining about. Let's assume you are talking about me. Maybe I don't have the right to chime in on this little discussion. After all, I only work for a class I railroad...in fact the same one you are writing about. I am also a professional photographer who owns his own photography business. I would bet the equipment I use to photograph trains is a little different than yours. And lastly, among other things, I like trains. I must not be qualified.
Before you start to bash the people around you, maybe you should step back and see if 'you' are qualified to write about the topic you picked. Opinions are one thing, we all have them and we don't always like what the other guy has to say. Trying to throw in so called facts with an opinion will get you into trouble quick.
I personally don't like the new Burger King commercials. I understand that some people do like them. The last thing I would do, would be on a forum where fast food workers look and post too, and whine about the commercial. I understand that their jobs suck and that is the LAST thing on their minds when they go to work over a deep fryer. That's just me. You do what you want...I like all of the posts here. Some are just worthy of replying to, some are not.
"Lionel trains are the standard of the world" - Jousha Lionel Cowen
Andrew Falconer wrote: The EMD SD70ACes painted in the CSX colors look great. That is Bright Blue, not Light Blue.Andrew
The EMD SD70ACes painted in the CSX colors look great. That is Bright Blue, not Light Blue.
Andrew
Taste is taste - personally, I think that the yellow nose doesn't help the SD70ACe out at all and that a paint scheme that takes attention from its nose would better suit it (I'm sure that EMD's nose design serves a functional purpose, anything that ungainly and ugly has to).
I think that the CSX GEVOs look fantastic - that scheme and design just works together.
traisessive1 wrote: I work for a railroad who doesn't wash their locomotives. CN will only was a locomotive if it is going to be used on a special train.Even then, when CN uses an engine on the Orient Express, they usually use an old ratty GP40-2W geared for higher speeds.So don't tell me that railroads care. They are not going to pull an engine out of service to wash it when they don't even have enough engines to run all the trains they have every day anyway.
I work for a railroad who doesn't wash their locomotives. CN will only was a locomotive if it is going to be used on a special train.
Even then, when CN uses an engine on the Orient Express, they usually use an old ratty GP40-2W geared for higher speeds.
So don't tell me that railroads care. They are not going to pull an engine out of service to wash it when they don't even have enough engines to run all the trains they have every day anyway.
But that's the other half of what I said. An engine being washed is not hauling freight.
-Morgan
Another factor might be the primer, etc. I know I've painted stuff where the color of the primer affected the appearance of the final paint. This could be a factor even if GE and EMD are using paint from the same manufacturer.
In the end, though, just like I care about the appearance of old cars at a car show, I care about the appearance of the locomotives I see. I do realize, however, that the two are apples and oranges - the cars are for show, the locomotives are working.
As for how the locomotive is actually working - I've cleaned up after our ALCO more than a few times. It's not running right and "ALCO snot" (unburned fuel) is everywhere. I can sympathize with the crews working a locomotive that's not right, for whatever reason. Very few of us would want to work in a facility in which the environmental controls or the sanitary facilities were out of whack.
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
I'm loving the llines about railroads not caring. Yes they do. But they're realists. Do you wash your car each time a bird poops on it? Most likely not. If you have to drive through a dusty lane, do you wash every day? Not usually. It;s the same process. You wash the car often, but not every 5 miles. The simple fact is that to clean a locomotive often enough to keep it shiny would mean it never went anywhere. Conrail eventually ave up painting their exxhaust stacks because before they even left the shops the stacks were dirty. Andy work done to clean engines or cars means time they aren't working, earning money either.
Operating conditions: I admit I don't think of it much, but I do feel sorry for yas
Primered engines: They do exist, but because UP and NS needed horsepower THEN. And many had the dubious issue of being invisible at night. Especially UP, where everyone was used to yellow.
Why is the paint blue?> probably the lighting hitting a different mix of paint. GE is not EMD, so it;s likely they won;t get the exact sa,e blue. But I can't sauy as I notice to big a difference.
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