What's your favorite pre-Amtrak passenger train?

[Anonymous]

Kozzie--

As to your question, here's an area that hasn't been covered.

In the US southwest (which I understand has a lot in common with parts of Oz), comprising TX, LA, NM, OK, AR, AZ :

Classiest: anything Santa Fe (including the secondary schedules) was a class act right up to the end. Not much else was, until you went north into UP territory.

Worst (by far): SP's Sunset with the Russellburger (vending machine) car and little else, and for this they charged extra fare!

Second worst: anything MP or T&P Jenks-era. A diner lounge serving fried chicken for $8 US in 1967! You could buy it in most restaurants in TX for 98 cents, including salad, potato and drink. Agents weren't allowed to write connecting tickets, because somebody might buy them. I'd mention SP again, but they didn't have anything else.

Best old-timer: Katy/Frisco's Texas Special (St. Louis-San Antonio) before about 1956 when Katy really began to get into financial trouble. Great service, classy train. And possibly the brightest (arguable, of course) paint job between the Coast Daylight and the City of New Orleans: stainless with bright red roofs, ends, and window panels, and maroon side sills. All red lettering. And shadow-striped heavyweights, through sleepers from numerous roads at various times (including Pennsylvania, B&O and GM&O), and a Pullman obs sleeper (rare in our part of the country).

Earliest Rock-n-roll festival on wheels: The FW&D Sam Houston Zephyr ripping along at 90+ on the 90 lb. between North Zulch and Houston. They issued 100 mph slow orders for this train, just like the Twins and the Hiawathas up north. 250 miles in 4 hours flat. Try that, Amtrak.

Best recycling job: FW&D/C&S (Burlington subsidiaries) Texas Zephyr (Dallas-Denver) between 1956 and 1963-4 with the original articulated Denver Zephyr trainsets, E5A/B, train name on the locos and letterboards, and a genuine neon tailsign on the observation car. This was also a class act while it lasted. What they replaced it with was almost as bad as the Sunset, but at least they kept the observation-lounge-diner off the original 1940 version (Silver Bowl or Silver Tray) north of Fort Worth. Great place to see freight cars, converted troop sleepers and baggage and Pullman pool cars from just about anywhere. You knew the streamlined stuff was really bad when the silver-painted heavyweights rode better, sat better, had functioning toilets and HVAC, and were actually clean.

Also generally good while it lasted: KCS Southern Belle-a real effort made to offer good service, but the train went through nowhere with few intermediate markets. Great color scheme--black cars above red and yellow stripes with silver roofs. Came off when they killed the RPOs. And also pre-Jenks MP & T&P.

Most eclectic (OK, so I expanded the area south a little bit): The Aguila Azteca (Aztec Eagle) on the NdeM that my wife and I rode in 1977 from Nuevo Laredo- Mexico City and back, in a Pullman all the way, for $75 US total! Train had everything, including segundas packed to the roofs, primeras also packed to the roofs, an ex C&O "Chessie" divided coach running as a primera especial coach, a Swiss diner (comedor) and several Pullmans (dormitorios) from various sources (all clean with working HVAC and good car attendants), and an in-service caboose on the rear of the northbound.

And for those who never experienced it, here is a description of life on the NdeM in those days:

Clase Segunda (2nd class)--no restrooms
Clase Primera (1st class)--restrooms but no toilet paper therein
Clase Primera Especial (special 1st class)--restrooms but no toilet paper therein, but there is an attendant to dole out toilet paper

Seriously, we had a Pullman compartment in a Swiss sleeper that did have toilet paper, but the restroom light didn't work, so had to do one's business either in the dark or with the door partially open. Food was generally good, edible and cheap, practiced my Spanish w/ the rear brakeman, who wanted to practice his English. Down in the mountains we had a company of Mexican troops riding the vestibules (they were protecting the mail from banditos-the train still had an in-service RPO)-really nice guys. It was considered easy duty and thus assigned as a reward for good work. Went into Buenavista when it was literally filled with trains, including the all Pullman Guadalajara train in 2 sections, if I recall right, and guys dispensing hot coffee out on the high platforms to passengers through the open segunda/primera coach windows from pumped-up air packs worn on their backs, like something from outer space. Generally a great trip. Parts were definitely third-world. All gone now.

[john lea]

Well, I see there's at least one west coast fan around. I agree the "San Joaquin Daylight" which my father was the last conductor to make the final run from Fresno to Oakland on. Of course I'm a bit predgice (sp) because there are 4 generations of SP railroaders in our family . From 1926 to 2004. I love the steam era and early electromotive era. Back then railroading was a romance with trains & engines, people & places, stations & places between stations, sidings.
So, Kozzie, if you need help in getting any rail cars or power or what ever just e-mail me and we will see what we can do for you, O.K.?
there are quite a few beautiful passenger trains, pre Amtrek, which I really don't care for, reason is ovbious (sp),that are very beautiful. The things that make them so are the romance and the beauty of such a large piece of machinery moving at such a speed that it doesn't even look like
it is moving until it is right on top of you. Then BAB it's gone!

Yes, the "Daylight" ran from LA, Los Angles,Ca to Oakland,Ca & return, daily.
There were a few other SP passenger trains around too, "Coast Daylight" "Sunset LImited" etc. Hope I've helped.

[Kozzie]

Hey drephpe and John Lea [:)]

Thanks for all that info - much appreciated.

[:D]

Kozzie

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Kozzie,

Sorry I've taken so long to respond. Regarding SCL passenger trains: Yes, Budd cars were used along with Pullman Standard and ACF passenger cars. It was a mix. These are very nice trains to model. Con-Cor's Budd Slumbercoach, while not exact as the corrugation is reveresed looks pretty decent. These did run on the Champion. I have one slumbercoach that I will be repainting in "metalizer" and decaling in SCL..

Take care and don't forget to visit the Model Railroader Forums. I've posted quite a bit there.

Take care and God Bless, Amigo!

[Anonymous]

The UP / SP "UNITED CITY TRAIN" - CITY OF LOS ANGELES and CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO east of Ogden. with its 4 or 5 UP E-units (E8 and E9).

ATSF´s "SUPER CHIEF" of 1950 to 1953 - with the wonderful warbonnet F7 A-B-B-A set in front!

[BNSFNUT]

My choice is the Phebe Snow. I took it a couple times a summer traveling to my grandmother's house. I rode it when it was the DL&W 's premier train. It;s service when down hill after it became an EL train. I wanted to ride it last run but could not come up with the money at the time.

[coalminer3]

Pan American (Louisville and Nashville)

Pocahontas (Norfolk and Western)

Merchants Limited (NYNH&H)

work safe

[espeefoamer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kozzie

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

My favorite pre Amtrak train was the San Joaquin Daylight.When I rode it in 1961 it still had a diner and a full length dome lounge car.This was my first train ride.[:D]
Kozzie,I rode a twin unit diner on the Broadway in1978.One car was a combination kitchen/dorm,and the other was full table seating.[:)]

Hi espeefoamer

With a name like that, I guess the San Joaquin Daylight was a Californian train...did it run out of LA? Was it a Southern Pacific train?

Hey Sooblue

Where did the Mainstreater run?

I have another Northen Pacific question:
What does the white writing on the sides of the two-tone green NP locos say?
I can never see a photo that is clear enough to read it....?

Thanks

Kozzie
Brisbane, QLD
Oz

Kozzie, The San Joaquin Daylight ran between Los Angeles and Oakland Ca.(across the bay from San Francisco.)It was a Southern Pacific train that ran over the Tehachapi Mountains and over the famous loop.

[Kozzie]

Hi espeefoamer, about the San Joaquin Daylight.

Was that the same route as the Coast Starlight? SP must have run a few atlernative services on this route?

Kozzie

[Anonymous]

Kozzie-

Glad to provide; hope it helps. If you get interested in the southwest, will be happy to respond if I know the answer.

SP San Joaquin Daylight went LA-SF on the inland route--over the Tehachapis (including the famous Tehachapi loop) into Bakersfield, thence Fresno and up the valley to Lathrop, where it cut off LA cars to Sacramento (Sacramento Daylight), and then to SF. They also offered a bus connection to Yosemite at Merced and Fresno. When I rode it in 1967, they were running a 100% coach round end obs on the front, next to the RPO and, wonder of wonders, a genuine 1941 daylight articulated chair car, still with the fluting and still red and orange. The dome was off that day, and they had scrounged up a flat top full lounge car that still had the barber shop (non-functional and used for storage space) with the etched glass on the door that said so. That was the good news. The bad news (other than they kept trying not to sell me a ticket, including telling me that the train was sold out and that the plane would be faster) was that the lounge was right next to (you guessed it) that luxurious acme of epicurean delight--a former 6-6-4 Russellburger car that they were trying to pass off as "food" service. Trying to keep up with the Sunset! By the way, the train was not full either way, but despite the SP the load factors were well above the 60% norm.

The Starlight runs on the coast line. UP/SP will/would not allow psgr trains over the Tehachapis post-1971 due to congestion, although we did a small consulting study for Caltrans about 20 years ago and showed how they could sneak an overnight train over the hill and not mess things up too much. In all fairness, the hill has extremely heavy traffic and a lot of single track with very heavy grades. You can take a San Joaquin down the valley from Oakland to Bakersfield over the parallel BNSF (ex-Santa Fe) line (that actually runs on the old SP line between OAK and Port Chicago on the Carquinez Strait) and then get on a dedicated bus to LAUPT, or you can ride Metrolink on the other side between LAUPT and Lancaster/Palmdale, but you can't ride over the hill unless you hop a freight (not recommended) or hire on with the RR.

I'll sign off and let spfoamer fill in the gaps.

Best wishes.

[Anonymous]

Northern Pacific-North Coast Limited

[mike-65]

WP's 'Zephyrette's' - 2-car Budd RDC trainsets from Oakland, Ca to Salt Lake City, Utah, NOT the hostesses on the Zephyrs, who were also called Zephyrettes.

They weren't very "glamorous", like the California Zephyr, the Royal Gorge, or the SP's Daylight, et al., there's just something kinda quirky and funky about them that I really dig.

(Does 2 cars count as a train?)

[kencompton]

I'd have to say the SP's Del Monte, which ran between San Francisco, and Monterey, CA. It had a little bit of everything. Part commute, part streamliner, pulled by a pair of boiler equipped GP9's, with the wings on both ends. The scenery was, and still is, Heaven on Earth. As a young lad of seven, it was quite an experience walking from the coaches to the snack car, (I can't remember what it was), with my switchman father to get a Coke, Geeps rocketing along at the Coast Route's posted 79. Amtrak took over barely three months later, and the run wasn't included. Only the commute portion from San Jose to the City by the Bay remained. Ken Compton

[Anonymous]

Gotta be the "Black Diamond" of the Lehigh Valley

[douginut]

The Electroliner of the CNS&M, smooth, fast, streamlined and on the hour to Milwaukee.
The 400, to Minneapolis and all of those lakes to have fun on when you are 10.

Doug, in Utah

[Anonymous]

My favorites had to be on the Milwaukee Road which regularly hit 100 MPH on all trains, especially the fleet of Hiawathas. And as for the ride, they had some secret formula that made the cars glide down the track, it was such a smooth ride. As for speed, they got you from the Twin Cities to Chicago in 6 and a half hours (compare that with Amtrak today)

[nkp779]

Well I can't really conment on this on much. I was not around when the passenger trains before Amtrak. From reading and watching videos an so forth. I like all the B&O and C&O, NKP,And Pensy passenger trains. I bet they were all good in their time. Seem to me that some day Trains will be back.
Rick Davis
TLEW Railway
If you are looking for a train ride to bring the memories visit our web site www.tlew.org

[Anonymous]

My favorite is the Missouri Pacific Eagle. I am partial to its paint scheme.

[Anonymous]

My favorite pre-Amtrak passenger train was the Shasta Daylight. I road it in the 50's and 60's as a kid from Oakland to Portland both during winter and summer. The breathtaking scenes throught the mountains past Mt. Shasta and into Oregon I beleive were only rivaled by the Coast Daylight with those beautiful 4-8-4's up the California coast between Los Angeles and San Francisco.

[joebraun]

My favorite passenger train ride (and I have taken many) was aboard the CN SuperContinental back in 1961 from Montreal to Jasper (I returned from Banff on the Canadian). The SuperContinental did not have the glitz of domes or an observation. But its 22+ cars in that regal black, green, and yellow Maple Leaf scheme looked gorgeous stretched out on the CN mainline. There were all conceivable accomodations in that train plus a dining car, snack car, and lounge. Coming from both staff and passengers was a great familial, unpretentious atmosphere. I rode for hours across the wild Ontario lake country -- out on the rear platform in the wonderful fresh air and the drumbeat of smooth but jointed rail. The open Dutch doors were populated as we approached and entered the mountain scenery. On board that train, it was like we were at some favorite aunt or uncle's house and had the run of the big old front porch. It was my greatest train ride ever in terms of overall enjoyment of being out there on the railroad.

[coalminer3]

Ref. Jorbraun's post above: Rear platform/dutch door rides; try and do that today.

Some I recall as being most pleasant were:

1. Pan American:Nashville-Louisville

2. Amtrak's "Cardinal" over Alleghany on a gorgoeus fall afternoon (foliage was spectacular) - back when it had Heritage equipment.

3. Southern Crescent between B'ham and Atlanta

4. California Zephyr (Amtrak) on UP from Denver north to Cheyenne and then west over Sherman Hill en route to Reno.

5. Remnant of the old L&N "Georgian" from Chattanooga to Atlanta on a lovely spring morning.

work safe

[passengerfan]

Favorite EMPIRE BUILDER what other train in its heyday offered not only Budd short domes but a full length dome lounge as well. The Ranch car for coach passengers was su[perb. GN meals were superior to most found on other trains. The crews were excellent and the onboard passenger representatives were well informed.
Second choice CN Super Continental during final years before Via Rail when the cars were painted black and white(gray) and ex Milwaukee full domes opertaed between Winnipeg and Vancouver. For coach passenger they offered day-nite coaches with seats that reclined almost into beds. Better than business class offered on jets today. The Prime Rib of Beef was among the finest offered in the dining car, that later became a bingo parlor each evening for passengers to enjoy. Crews were excellent and the Pullman lounge cars rebuilt from old heavyweights and streamlined were excellent. Variety of sleeping accommodations was great as well. The trains generally ran from eighteen to twenty-two cars as the latter was the max for station platforms at major stops. The red white and blue fares offered at the time kept the trains operating full.
I understand TLC publishing is offering a four volume set of books on North American streamliners with the first in the series due for release this fall on the Southeastern streamliners.

[rixflix]

GN's Western Star.
Rode it when I got out of the Army at Fort Lewis, Washington and went home to Reading, Pennslvania in 1969. Put on my civvies at King Street, stuffed everything Army except my discharge papers in the trash can, and headed for my roomette. We had climbed the Whitefish River valley in the night and I woke up around Kalispell (or Sand Point, I don't have a map handy). Breakfast was in a diner with a ranch sort of motif, and they even favored me by serving fresh whitefish, presumably from the afore-mentioned river along with my bacon and eggs. One of the best things about trains then was how princely (or princessly) the staff made you feel. The rest of that trip was just fine and Viet Nam was behind me, or so Ithought!!!
Prior to that my favorite ride was the Reading's Crusader between Philly and New York. Plain food, but the Grand Entrance via ferry from Jersey City to lower Manhattan, past the Statue of Liberty, never failed to thrill. While the Pennsy Klockers sent you into town via a rathole, glorious Penn Station was also a jaw-dropper. I would always order their Navy Bean Soup!!!

Captain Video aka Rixflix
Blessed be Jean Shepherd in all His works

P.S....rdganthracite, we must converse on Reading Company stuff. Most of my family is still within a couple of miles of "D' dispatch office in Reading and I get up there a too few time a year. E-mail me puuuulease!!!

[Anonymous]

My favorite train would be the Illinois Central's Miss-Lou. This was a little local that ran from Jackson, Ms. to New Orleans,La. This train had several incarnations. For a while it ran with a locomotive and a couple of cars, then it was ran with ex-Green Diamond equipment, and the final configuration was a little motorcar.

[BaltACD]

In 1959 our family took a vacation trip.

The Capitol Limted to Chicago

The Panama Limted - Chicago to New Orleans

The Gulf Wind - New Orleans to Jacksonville

The Silver Meteor - Jacksonville to Washington, DC

The Capitol Limited back to home.

The Panama Limited truly flew down the Illinois Central's raceway south of Chicago through the Southern Illinois flat farm lands. First Class Pullman service all the way.

The Gulf Wind operated by the Louisville & Nashville from New Orleans to Chattachoochie, FL. and the Seaboard Air Line from Chcattachoochie to Jacksonville. Primary memory of this trip was the L&N Diner 'Cross Keys Tavern' which would have been more aptly named 'Square Wheels Tavern' as it was the roughest riding rail car I have ever been on...and that includes some trips on cabooses. The L&N diner got switched out of the train at Flomaton, AL. The SAL diner that was switched into the train at Chattachoochie rode much better for Breakfast coming into Jacksonville.

The Silver Meteor - a symphony of Stainless Steel ripping through the Southern Summer evening behind three SAL 'white' E units....watching the lead engines Mars light sweep from side to side as it oscillated in it's figure 8 pattern through the darkness.

The hustle and bustle of Washington Union Station...trains from the SAL, the Atalntic Coast Line (Stainless with purple trim), The Pennsylvania Railroad (Tuscan Red with the GG-1's in Brunsiwck Green), The Southern (Apple Green and Cream with gold trim), The Baltimore & Ohio (Blue, Gray and Black with Gold trim), The Chesapeake & Ohio (Blue, Federal Yellow and Gray). Throw in cars from other railroads that 'strayed' in from time to time and WUT was a riot of color.

Memories for a lifetime.

[Anonymous]

My favorite is the Union Pacific's City Of Portland. Armor yellow streamliner cars pulled by some sleek E's or a powerful FEF! Nothing beats it. I also like the Daylight Limited, the Super Chief, and the Powathan Arrow.

[Anonymous]

I also liked the Katy/FriscoTexas Special......One classy train......

My favorite steam railroad to model is the Katy (MKT). One of the reasons is that the Katy never bought anything larger than a Mikdado and Pacific.... The black locomotives with white wheels pulling yellow freight cars and the red cabooses.....what a sight.....

Why Katy went green with yellow lettering in the diesel freight era is beyond me.....

[Anonymous]

My favorite would have to be the" Pere Marquette" between Grand Rapids Michigan, and Chicago. There was also a Grand Rapids to Detroit train. These were some of the first postwar streamliners in the country, powered by EMD E-7s. The GR-Detroit trains were placed in service by the Pere Marquette Railroad in 1946, and the C&O placed the Chicago-GR in 1948 or so, after the C&O takeover of the PM. There was also a train to Petoskey, and Bay View , the northernmost part of lower Michigan. Today AMTRAK operates a GR-Chicago" PereMarquette", but it does'nt compare to the originals.

[Anonymous]

The Illinois Central "Hawkeye", a blue-collar early morning arrival in Chicago and a late evening return. Ideal for catching a Cubs game, spending a day shopping in Chicago or doing business. We rode from Freeport, IL but the train originated in Council Bluffs, Iowa. No luxury, but comfortableand more important, on time - a habit Amtrak has yet to adopt.

[JoeUmp]

How can anybody argue against the Super Chief. Consistantly rated best in comfort and service, why else would all the movie stars prefer it to all the other name trains of the era. Besides, the AT&SF had the best color scheme of them all.

Sorry to disappoint all those other fine trains.

Joe