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Bad day on the Green Lines

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Bad day on the Green Lines
Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 9:29 PM

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
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There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by CShaveRR on Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:43 AM

It's not easy being green...

Both of them, at this point, seem to be human error.  Those latter-day trolleys in Boston don't seem to afford much collision protection to the motorman.

I just read something today about slowdowns in Washington, D.C. to permit track repairs because of a previous derailment on--you guessed it--their Green Line.

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 29, 2008 9:09 AM

That Boston colision really hit home for me, I've traveled on that line several times, from Riverside into Boston. Rail colisions always seem so far away, and don't really seem real. Then when one happens near you, it's hard to beleive it actually happened.

My condolances to the victims of this horrible and preventable wreck. 

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Posted by DMUinCT on Thursday, May 29, 2008 9:09 AM

   The Boston "Green Lines" are severial lines, they run in a subway downtown and then fan out on the surface when in the suburbs. The Green Line is the oldest Subway in the United States. THIS Green Line is a High Speed Line using LRVs on a former Boston & Albany double track commuter line, on which the MBTA strung overhead wires, and using the "old" original B&A Stations.   It connects a commuter parking lot on I-95 to downtown Boston (by way of Fenway Park).

   Automatic Signals "should" have prevented this.  The 24 year old woman "Operator" was killed making this an NTSB case.

   While the Green Line is run with LRV Trolleys, Boston also has 3 other true Subway Lines, the Orange Line, the Blue Line, and the Red Line.  

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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Posted by ndbprr on Thursday, May 29, 2008 11:41 AM
Apparently the experienced "motorwoman" here in Chicago ran a red signal and went through a switch alligned for a different route,  A CTA spokesman said more training was needed.  More training for a woman who has been doing this for some time and probably makes $60-75k a year.  Remind me to stay off the els if I ever get the urge to ride one.
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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Thursday, May 29, 2008 11:44 AM
Another link to the Boston MBTA crash stories from WHDH-TV.
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Posted by mustanggt on Thursday, May 29, 2008 6:04 PM

 

I read about the MBTA incident a bit after it happened. The ends of those cars were obliterated. Makes me wonder just how safe these cars are.... The Kinki Sharyo cars are the most common on the system....

Dave 

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Posted by CShaveRR on Thursday, May 29, 2008 6:05 PM

 ndbprr wrote:
Apparently the experienced "motorwoman" here in Chicago ran a red signal and went through a switch alligned for a different route,  A CTA spokesman said more training was needed.  More training for a woman who has been doing this for some time and probably makes $60-75k a year.  Remind me to stay off the els if I ever get the urge to ride one.

Small point:  the operator was male.  I don't think "retraining" is a countermeasure for running a stop signal, followed by willfully overriding a safety feature that had stopped the train.

Having said that, though, I'd say that it's probably safer to ride the L than it is to take a bus, ride in a cab, or even (or should that be "especially") drive in the city.

Carl

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CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by locoi1sa on Thursday, May 29, 2008 6:17 PM

  The 24 year old operator may have been talking or texting on her cell phone. Just heard that on the news. You cant train someone to pay attention to thier job.

   Pete
 

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by DMUinCT on Friday, May 30, 2008 9:49 AM

       And she paid with her life!!!

  It took 7 hours to get the body out of the cab.

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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Posted by locoi1sa on Friday, May 30, 2008 5:10 PM
  The NTSB just announced that the brakes were not applied on the following trolly. The operator was schooled for 3 days and had 2 days with another operator before given her own trolly. 5 days of training to be an engineere and in charge of hundreds of lives every trip seems kind of lax to me. What ever happened to the apprentice programs? Can I run a freight train with only 5 days of training?

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, May 31, 2008 7:03 AM

 locoi1sa wrote:
  The NTSB just announced that the brakes were not applied on the following trolly. The operator was schooled for 3 days and had 2 days with another operator before given her own trolly. 5 days of training to be an engineere and in charge of hundreds of lives every trip seems kind of lax to me. What ever happened to the apprentice programs? Can I run a freight train with only 5 days of training?

Without knowing all of the facts, I seriously doubt that the operator was a new hire with just five days of training.  Did she transfer from bus operations, did she work in the shops and move equipment as part of her job, etc, etc, etc.  These are all factors that the NTSB will investigate before they issue their final report. 

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by DMUinCT on Saturday, May 31, 2008 9:13 AM

 Compiled from various reports:   2 car LRV Trains

  The woman who died in the crash was 24 years old, was hired from a waiting list last summer, went through training (including supervised operation), and was given certification to operate last October.

   No failure was found in Track (by chance, the Geometry Car had run the day before the accident and has been run now after the crash) or Trolleys (brakes good, no defects) , speed limit on that stretch is 40 mph, forward speed of the first train moving out was 4 mph, ramming speed of the second train was 37-38 mph, no signs of brake application (sand drops when Emergency is triggered).  Cell phone records of the Operator has been requested. 

   Service resumed yesterday but will be stopped this afternoon to run simulated speed tests.

 

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, May 31, 2008 12:17 PM
What about the signals? Were they working?
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Posted by DMUinCT on Sunday, June 1, 2008 8:07 AM

 Per WHDH Channel 7 on-line news.

  All signals working, the raming train stopped a Waban Station with a RED signal.  It then COULD move forward on Restricted Approach, not to exceed 10 mph.  It left the Station and accelerated to nearly track speed, 38 mph.

  In New England, NESN (New England Sports Network, the Red Sox owned cable station) has been showing details and interviews.  A Red Sox Office Inturn was on the train, minor injuries, and helped with the rescues.

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, June 1, 2008 10:28 AM
Okay, thanks. Looks like the operator started on restricted speed, then forgot it was restricted speed and accelerated. Classic case of talking/texting on the phone and not paying attention....Banged Head [banghead]
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Posted by DMUinCT on Monday, June 2, 2008 8:11 AM
  They ran vision tests Sunday to see if the signals would be visable as the Trolleys were running west into the sun at 6PM.   NTSB stated the full report would take 12-18 months.

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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Posted by ArtOfRuin on Monday, June 2, 2008 12:57 PM
The T has has a rough go (or at least rougher than usual) lately. The Green Line also had a fire, then there was the flatcar smashing into the Commuter Rail train. And wouldn't you know it: The MBTA, MBCR, CSX, and the lumberyard are all being cited in a lawsuit by three of the flatcar accident victims. It's disconcerting to read the newspaper editorial asking people if they think it's safe to use the T in light of all the problems it's had recently.
-Jonathan Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, Is just a freight train coming your way - "No Leaf Clover," Metallica
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 2, 2008 2:30 PM

 ArtOfRuin wrote:
It's disconcerting to read the newspaper editorial asking people if they think it's safe to use the T in light of all the problems it's had recently.

Yeah, especially as the alternative is Boston traffic....Whistling [:-^]

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 2, 2008 3:28 PM
Amen to that Train Man. I do the commute 5 days a week from RI to Boston for the last 10 years, but I have to say I feel more comfortable (safer) on the drive than the MBTA. I took it the first month I started work there, and more often than not I would be waiting for an hour for the next train south. Many inconviences, and unfortunately, crime. It does scare me to look in the rear view mirror and see someone talking on the phone, drinking their latte, but I figure I can always duck off the road if it gets to bad. Of the many bad things I have seen on the road was a motorcyclists either texting or trying to enter a phone number while driving at 70mph. Dumb.
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Posted by DMUinCT on Tuesday, June 3, 2008 9:16 AM
  NTSB, As reported by WHDHtv,  After Sunday's test run, vision of Signals, Track and the Train that was struck was not a problem in the accident.

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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Posted by garyla on Tuesday, June 3, 2008 4:34 PM

What is the minimum age for operators now?  Does some aspect of today's employment law prevent a higher number than, say, 21?  As we know, different aspects of maturity kick in at different ages (if ever!) and of course each individual is unique, but maybe the employers are now limited in their discretion.

When my late father got hired by Los Angeles Railway in 1939, he was just 22, but he could only get on as a conductor (not a motorman) as he was under 25. 

Translation of this company rule:  They'd trust him with the money, they'd trust him with the records, they'd trust him to be courteous to the customers, and they'd trust him with the timekeeping, but they would NOT trust him to drive the thing until he was older.  Reasonable.  

If I ever met a train I didn't like, I can't remember when it happened!
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Posted by DMUinCT on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:58 AM

  Latest from Boston, 6/11/08

 The Green Line Operator was NOT on her Cell Phone at the time of the accident.

 She tested NEGATIVE for Alcohol and Drugs.

 Reason for the wreck????????    NTSB has a year to find out.   Just in case, new rule, MBTA will suspend any operator using a Cell Phone on duty.  (that's why they have radios)

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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