Turbo Anyone??

[EightNSand]

ROHR TURBOLINERS FOR SALE

Amtrak has available for sale seven (7) trainsets of Rohr Turboliners (Direct Drive Gas Turbines) and associated spare parts inventory. Each trainset consists of a combination power and coach at each end and three intermediate coaches, one with a food service facility. Three (3) trainsets have been overhauled and are stored in Delaware; four (4) trainsets are in various stages of overhaul and are stored in New York. Contact information provided below for interested parties:
B. A. Hastings, Officer Asset Recovery, Telephone Number: 215-349-1192 E-mail: [e-mail]

From Progressive Railroading

[al-in-chgo]

ROHR TURBOLINERS FOR SALE

Amtrak has available for sale seven (7) trainsets of Rohr Turboliners (Direct Drive Gas Turbines) and associated spare parts inventory. Each trainset consists of a combination power and coach at each end and three intermediate coaches, one with a food service facility. Three (3) trainsets have been overhauled and are stored in Delaware; four (4) trainsets are in various stages of overhaul and are stored in New York. Contact information provided below for interested parties:
B. A. Hastings, Officer Asset Recovery, Telephone Number: 215-349-1192 E-mail: [e-mail]

From Progressive Railroading

 

This has got to be one of the happiest RR news events of 1988 -- pity that it's 2008. 

Even CN/VIA, which got real, prolonged service out of its units, has moved on. 

If they don't sell, I wonder if Amtrak would consider donating a unit to the Illinois Railway Museum?  They act just like a private corporation, aren't they entitled to the same kind of tax write-off? 

Actually I do hope Amtrak can raise some money off these things.  Especially if they use the money to buy new rolling stock!  California cars, Hiawatha cars, even those dang Amshells -- as long as they can be added to the stock, since it seems in those three corridors Amtrak would love to add extra cars or even extra service. 

Perhaps someone who has ridden Talgos and Turbos both would care to compare the ride -- I am not implying the equipment is interchangeable, but they both use a low-slung carriage and lowered center of gravity to do their thing. 

Whether or not they are technologically obsolescent, I have a feeling that any quaint little tourist pike will emphatically NOT want to add turbos to their steam/diesel fleet.  I am sorry to say I have only seen, not ridden, the American model, in Grand Central Station in the late Sixties.  But I can tell you that (I think it was) eleven years later I heard a test of a French Turbo.  If that was one of theirs, Rohr should be spelled ROAR!!  It was terribly noisy.

 

[M636C]

I guess I've travelled on all the trains being considered here.

I travelled on the French RTG turbines in France in 1974, on the VIA UA Turbotrains and the Amtrak French RTGs in 1977 and on Spanish Talgo trains both in France and Spain in 1974.

While you might expect the single axle cars on Spanish Talgo trains and the VIA Turbo to ride similarly, the Spanish cars had a fairly hard but smooth ride while the VIA trains had a much softer suspension and passengers were advised not to try to walk about while the train was leaving Toronto for Montreal but to remain in their seats. A similar announcement might have been made in Montreal, but we never reached Montreal. At Dorval airport the train stopped with an engine fire in the leading power car and we all changed over to a Rapido hauled by an FPA4 which we had overtaken on the journey.

The French Turbo RTGs are conventional cars, although very light weight by US standards. They rode fine in France but on my trip from Chicago to Detroit on what I guess was Conrail track it was pretty rough. The Rohr cars may have had better springing adapted to US track conditions.

I guess this means the state of New York has finally given up on running these cars on the Empire Corridor service, and the units in Delaware (probably Wilmington, I guess) were spares held for the New York.

These cars are thirty years too late, not ten and their fuel consumption became a problem in the 1970s fuel shocks. I'd guess there would be no need to guess why they have finally fallen from favour again.

M636C

[martin.knoepfel]

In France, the RTGs have been retired too. While in service, they were very popular with passengers. The offered fast intercity-service on corridors where loco-hauled trains were not justified.

Amtrak never used the full potential for these trainsets. The French RTGs were rated at 100 or 110 mph (on a test-run, IIRC, one trainsetz ran even 135 mph, but I do not know whether this was a shortened train). This would have given the opportunity of a very competitive trip-time between Chicago and St. Louis

[oltmannd]

ROHR TURBOLINERS FOR SALE

Amtrak has available for sale seven (7) trainsets of Rohr Turboliners (Direct Drive Gas Turbines) and associated spare parts inventory. Each trainset consists of a combination power and coach at each end and three intermediate coaches, one with a food service facility. Three (3) trainsets have been overhauled and are stored in Delaware; four (4) trainsets are in various stages of overhaul and are stored in New York. Contact information provided below for interested parties:
B. A. Hastings, Officer Asset Recovery, Telephone Number: 215-349-1192 E-mail: [e-mail]

From Progressive Railroading

I rode the Rohr turboliners many times.  These were the ones delivered in 1977 and 1978 for service in New York state.  They ran > 90 mph between Pougheepsie and CP169 (west of Schenectady) with good stretches of 100-110 between Hudson, NY and CP169.  NY also used them west to Buffalo and north to Montreal for a period, too.

Here's a picture: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=8020

And another: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=27698

 They were very nice - a huge upgrade from the ex-NYC PS "steel fleet" coaches they replaced.  They were very smooth riding and sufficiently fast.  The Rohr version had the carbodies widened out to 10 ft from 9' for the French imports.  They had big windows that were great for the scenic trip along the Hudson.

The scuttlebutt was that the carbon steel carbodies were found to be pretty much shot when Super Steel started their work.  The three rebuilt sets should be in good condition, but I'd be wary of trying to use the other 4 for anything.

I wonder if the coaches couldn't be converted for use with HEP equipped diesels. Might be suitable for a cheap commuter rail start up.  (Atanta, Charlotte, Jacksonville, Orlando anyone?)

[Expresslane]

    I'm not sure how many train set Amtrak had in the beginning but I have seen one set in a junk yard in southern Indiana.

  Why are they for sale and who would buy them? I rode them a number of times in the 70's and really liked the large windows. From a passenger standpoint they are a much better train to ride that what Amtrak has now for the short haul market.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunetly, probably a scrapper. I don't think there are many short lines or tourist railroads that would want one. I would hope maybe a commuter railroad would buy them, they seem right for high speed commuter service, although that may be just me, as I don't really know much about their acceleration/decceleration speeds, nor the seating inside.

[Dakguy201]

 

If they don't sell, I wonder if Amtrak would consider donating a unit to the Illinois Railway Museum?  They act just like a private corporation, aren't they entitled to the same kind of tax write-off? 

Sorry, Al, you can't have a tax write-off unless you have some net income to write it off against.  A good tax lawyer might be able to find a way to introduce a third party into the transaction who could actually use the loss, but it will not be of any use to Amtrak directly.  The other factor here is that the equipment may be fully written off already, and so be "worth" nothing as a donation.

[mudchicken]

Turboscrap anyone?

[csmith9474]

Turboscrap anyone?

Front Range passenger service, since we should see the construction beginning on the new ROW around the Springs for freight service any day now.

[oltmannd]

    I'm not sure how many train set Amtrak had in the beginning but I have seen one set in a junk yard in southern Indiana.

  Why are they for sale and who would buy them? I rode them a number of times in the 70's and really liked the large windows. From a passenger standpoint they are a much better train to ride that what Amtrak has now for the short haul market.

The ones you rode were the French imports.  They were 9' wide.  These are the Americanized cousins built for New York State in 1978-79.  They are 10' wide and have an "Americanized" nose. 

NY had Super Steel in Schenectady strart to overhaul them in the 1990s.  One was completed and tested and almost accepted for service.  Two others were finished up when NY and Amtrak had a falling out and Amtrak moved the finished ones to Wilmington, leaving the other 4 at Super Steel.

One of the original French imports received the "Americanized" nose and was in in service in NY for a while.  You could always tell it from the Rohr-built ones because the carbodie's weren't bumped out to 10' width.  It think it was retired.

The problem with using them elsewhere in the US is that there's few places to let them do their 110 mph and they are great fuel pigs at part throttle.  Perhaps the AC casinos should buy them.  The are 3rd rail equipped and could get under the Hudson that way (if the 3rd rail is still there....)  110 mph down the corridor - change ends at Frankfort Jct - the 80-90 mph to AC.  Much smoother operation than what's been proposed (and should have been running for some time, now)

[yippinyahoo]

I have a very fond memory of these things, thanks to an Amtrak crew who knew how to make a 12 year old's day by letting him drive one almost the whole way from Albany to Buffalo. Imagine something like that happening now....

[mudchicken]

Turboscrap anyone?

Front Range passenger service, since we should see the construction beginning on the new ROW around the Springs for freight service any day now.

The Front Range (joke) Bypass or the one the El Paso County / Colorado Springs urban planners (morons, must be smoking weed with the local artist clans) said should be built around the Springs with a tunnel under Black Forrest so that they could expand their arts and entertainment district.?????

[csmith9474]

Turboscrap anyone?

Front Range passenger service, since we should see the construction beginning on the new ROW around the Springs for freight service any day now.

The Front Range (joke) Bypass or the one the El Paso County / Colorado Springs urban planners (morons, must be smoking weed with the local artist clans) said should be built around the Springs with a tunnel under Black Forrest so that they could expand their arts and entertainment district.?????

I saw a segment on the local news here last week, and that is when I learned exactly how out of touch with reality these folks are. Get a clue (maybe they would if they sold clues at Wal Mart)!!!!!!

[RudyRockvilleMD]

I also rode the RTG Turboliners, but in France in 1990. The Turboliners were used in a coordinated ship (Hovercraft) rail service between London and Paris. I am not sure when French Rail removed its Turboliners from service, but the Hovercraft were removed from the cross-channel service in 1991. The Turboliners averaged over 60 mph between Boulogne, where they connected with the Hovercraft, and Paris. I thought their ride was comfortable, certainly more so than the Hovercraft. In my opinion the Hovercraft had some drawbacks. They were noisy they shook, and they couldn't run when the English Channel got rough.

If I recall correctly the Turboliners were used on the Adirondack between New york and Montreal, and they were also used between Milwaukee, Chicago, and St Louis for a while.

[al-in-chgo]

 

If they don't sell, I wonder if Amtrak would consider donating a unit to the Illinois Railway Museum?  They act just like a private corporation, aren't they entitled to the same kind of tax write-off? 

Sorry, Al, you can't have a tax write-off unless you have some net income to write it off against.  A good tax lawyer might be able to find a way to introduce a third party into the transaction who could actually use the loss, but it will not be of any use to Amtrak directly.  The other factor here is that the equipment may be fully written off already, and so be "worth" nothing as a donation.

 

Yup.  No profit no money.  I got ahead of myself again.   

I hope Amtrak does news follow-ups on this story.  Maybe someone somewhere will come up with a way to use the stuff that has not yet here been contemplated.   -  a. s.

[SALfan]

My understanding is that Amtrak is a corporation wholly owned by the Federal gov't, so no Federal tax liability.  As a Federal entity, they are immune from state corporate taxes.  The Federal corporations are a different breed of cat (and in no way do I pretend to understand the nuances), which would probably make the creative transactions for deriving benefit from a donation either illegal or not worth the trouble.

[trainfan1221]

I rode a turbo to the Lake George area once to meet up with people.  Gave me a great reason to take the ride.  Unfortunately I wasn't impressed with the train at all, and we had to stop for a problem with a brake.  But looking back I am glad I got to ride one either way.