"Charter Members and longtimers"

[trainfan1221]

Been a member for several years now, hard to believe, but wasn't quite here at the start.  Still, my 1000 plus posts are pretty good for somebody who has never owned his own computer!

[Limitedclear]

Been here a while, on and off. Don't really remember when I started. Left for a time and came back.

Interesting to see how few of us "Old Heads" are left...

LC

[miketx]

  Do you then go over to political forums, and try to *recruit* people who are "on the fence" about railroads, to come over to this forum?

     Rather than admonish you about the politics thing, I'd simply suggest the following.  Right now, nasty,nasty politics is embedded in just about everything around us.  Just about everything that involves 2 or more voters turns into an ugly us verses them political battle.  Why is it asking too much, to keep this forum focused on trains?  Statistically speaking, I probably disagree with 50% of the posters, on any given political issue.  That doesn't mean that I can't enjoy discussing trains with them.  Can't we leave it at that?

Actually, I do spend a fair amount of time butting heads at politically oriented forums which makes the assertions of fear  somehow being an inhibiting factor, laughable. I guess that certain types just like to imply fear as a motive of their chosen opponents, as a means to stroke themselves.

Exactly!! that pretty much is the alpha and the omega of it all, since politics is an inseperable part of just about any meaningful event, why play the ostrich gambit forcing head in the sand?

But, it shouldn't have to, there are many clever people an this forum, and surely they are sophisticated enough to realize that differences of opinion are not only natural, but they are healthy. And merely because someone else feels differently is no absolute deteminant that one party is necessarily right, while the other is necessarily wrong. I think perhaps the failing is the obsession in seeing everything in a "good guys " vs "bad guys" frame of reference, where everyone who believes as (editorially) I do are necessarily "good guys" while all those opposed are necessarily the "bad guys", and that is simply saturday afternoon matinee type thinking.

I frequently see discussion here which I would rather not participate in, so guess what I do? I close the thread and ignore it.  I fail to see why not everyone can be likewise tolerant.

This business of 'hey, I disagree with what is being said, so I'm going to provoke the moderators to close the door to free thinking" sucks .  (profanity, vulgarity, threats, personally targeted attacks,  comments of an explicit sexual nature, or solicitations to commit illegal acts, of course, being the welcome exception)

I guess there will always be that element that runs to an automobile accident to gawk, only to immediately turn and complain about how horrible it all was...but you don't see them outlawing automobiles simply as an appeasement to that minority

  All good points, although the colors make it about impossible to read.   The forums I follow about trains, dirt track car racing, and local/national news have all turned into political hissing matches.  I've given up on several already, that have turned into political sewers, where a comment on the weather can turn into the nuclear war equivilent of a political hissing match.

     I'd hate to see this forum stoop to that level.  For that reason, I try to leave my political views out of it.

     As an example, some time back, a long time poster left after a political firefight.  Later, said poster reappeared under a new name(s).  I PM'd the guy, and asked if he'd consider coming back to the forum, as he is/was an interesting poster to interact with.  What did I get for my troubles?  I got blasted with both barrels for I don't know what reason.  Do we really need any more animosity among posters, for no reason at all?

     Bottom line is this, as this is my hobby, I'd prefer it to be a good get-away place from politics, and other earth-shattering debates like light beer verses dark beer.

     Anybody want to talk about trains?

     ( Apologies to the poster who started this thread.  I've come to appreciate all the posters on this forum, especially those *old timers* who have been around here since long before I came. )

Let me get the off-topic out of the way first, Murphy...What dirt car site do you post on?  I can't find many good ones.  Send me an e-mail if you want to keep us from getting flamed for not talking trains.  But there are parallels.  They both make a lot of noise, shake the ground and stink!

 

I won't claim to be one of the charter members, but I'm an old timer who got mad at some people (some are still here), would quit, come back, get mad and quit, come back...you get the picture.  I've always appreciated most of the people who have answered this thread and who have been here a long time...ed, mookie, tree 68, eloafan, modelcar, murphy siding and the rest of you who know who you are. 

 But it's just not as fun as it used to be.  They say sites like this (in general, not just this one, don't start...) aren't as active.  There must be something others are going to for their fun on the computer. 

But I still log on every day, answer occasionally, and see what those of you who know a heck of a lot more than me have to say. 

 I wonder what happened to that kid who got on here for a while. The guy who wrote in caps and finally said something like shut the h*** up. 

 

m

[Murphy Siding]

I don't know if my start date qualifies me as a charter member, but here goes:

Murphy, As long as they remain civil and go point and counter point without the oh,yeah, what about... stuff it can be very interesting and informative. 

Count me in on that observation.  As yet, I haven't seen any of the threads that drifted into political threads remain civil, interesting, or informative for very long.

     I'm a big fan of all those on this forum that allow me to learn more about my hobby.  Nothing beats getting a lesson from someone who understands the subject well enough to explain it to another interested party.  The flipside of that, is the guy who can only say "That's the right answer, because I say so!".  While it may certainly be the right answer, if the guy is that sure of himself, he ought to be able to at least defend his opinion.  Either way, it's all good.

[adrianspeeder]

Dang, I have been here awhiles.

 

Somewhere I have a screen shot of the old style board where ya clicked on each post to read it.  and we walked to school uphill bothways in the snow 4times a day every day all year .....

 

Adrianspeeder 

[rrnut282]

I don't know if my start date qualifies me as a charter member, but here goes:

Murphy, As long as they remain civil and go point and counter point without the oh,yeah, what about... stuff it can be very interesting and informative.  One thing that bugs me is after 25 + pages of facts, examples, and hard numbers, "Can steam come back?", there are still individuals who refuse to listen to reason or acknowledge any points.  Mr. Sol has WAY more patience and good information than I do.  He convinced me after about 5 pages      I think that has a lot to do with people who no longer post here like Overmod who could explain the physics of the wheel/rail interface.  Even former editor Mark Hemphill had his detractors on this forum.  His lucid and rea-life examples are missed.

Pay attention to what you see in here, you just might see the same subject later in the magazine.

As far as changes over time, I remember the tree version of threads.  It was a pain as someone could reply to a specific post and "start another branch".  You had to find your way back to follow the original line of thought.  So the continuous list is a vast improvement.

Irregardless of my thin skin, I eventually come back here because I know it is one of the best sources of information on railroading out there.

 

One last thing.  CAN WE GET a SPELCHEKER button on the edit box?, Pleze?

[Murphy Siding]

Murph, just highlight it as if you were going to copy and paste.

  Due to poor eyesight, that's what I had to do to read the first one!

Mr. TheAntiGates:  Once again, you make some excellent points.  But, rather than belabor the issue, I'll just summarize my point, and move on.  If this forum becomes nothing more than political hash, it becomes......nothing special.

[nanaimo73]

Murph, just highlight it as if you were going to copy and paste.

[Convicted One]

All good points, although the colors make it about impossible to read.   The forums I follow about trains, dirt track car racing, and local/national news have all turned into political hissing matches.  I've given up on several already, that have turned into political sewers, where a comment on the weather can turn into the nuclear war equivilent of a political hissing match.

For that reason, I try to leave my political views out of it.

 

Gee Murph, so you don't like colored fonts?  I never knew you to be biased, but ce la vie. Here you go, all in a nice lillly white font, just for you.

As far as claims of trying to make this a "politics free" environment, well, that's either got to be a joke, or quite a pantload.  One of the core recreations ongoing here has been the spew of  derisive crackpot  insults against NIMBYs, BANANAs, and environmentalists...ALL OF WHICH ARE MADE WITH "political" ambition.   so if it's fair game for one, then it should be fair game for all.

If I thought politically based commentary was totally and equitably prohibited against ALL  sources, then I'd have much less of a problem with it all.  But obviously it isn't. The narrow minded types simply object to exposure to points of view running contrary to their reserved outlook, perhaps they simply cannot stomach the WHOLE truth 

[Convicted One]

 I've often thought that it's too bad that these forums don't include what's called a "lounge" area where freewheeling, off topic discussions can be had as many other forums do.....having said that am I to understand that one of your hobbies is posting on web forums for the purpose of "recruiting" people to whatever your ideological cause(s) may be?...My, and to think folks find railfanning an odd pastime....

 

You and I both agree on this. It's too bad that the forum doesn't contain a restricted access folder, where users who enjoy debating the finer points of conflict, can go into to partake. It could be one of those things like where you have to have a certain number of posts AND  you agree that certain topics under discussion might be deemed offensive, but you agree to not hold Kalmbach et al accountable for the outrage, etc

That way the mods could just instruct the hot heads among us to "take it to the woodshed" or some such..

Singling it out as a "hobby" might be a bit overboard, I tend to think of it as an additional service that I include with the bundle, at no added cost

[erikem]

I have been a member since....well, it's a while now.

I wasn't here for the  old "tree type" interface. 

I've been a member for only a couple of years or so (but read my first issue of Trains in 1967). I've also been a member of CompuServe's TrainNet forum (joined late 1990 - dropped out in 1997 when CIS migrated away from the ASCII interface) and grew to like the threading interface on CompuServe - made it a lot easier to read replies in context. 

[ChuckCobleigh]

Thank you Matt for this GREAT website !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I joined in December of 2001 and mostly lurk. You learn who posts interesting commentary, usually those in or very close to the industry, though a few camera freaks like Chris and Chad, for instance, have provided much entertainment as well.  The long-timers in the forum who have stayed around and kept discussions on a level course have made this a daily enjoyment.  The trolls who come and go are usually pretty obvious and easy to avoid.

[chad thomas]

Thank you Matt for this GREAT website !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Matt Van Hattem]

I guess I could be considered a charter member. I was hired at Kalmbach in the fall of 2000 to help launch the new trains.com web site. We had a lot of late nights here populating the site before its launch in early 2001. A year later I moved over to the magazine, but still continued with some Web duties. We've evolved since then. One of the best changes I've seen, and you can thank Erik Bergstrom for this, is the redesign of the forum section to make it more user-friendly.

It's been a great run so far. I got my first subscription to Trains Magazine as a birthday present when I was 15 years old, and feel very lucky that I get to work on a magazine I grew up with and a Web site I enjoyed long before I worked here.

The variety and depth of the conversations on the forum is thrilling.

I've been privileged to meet a few of you at various events over the years (such as Rochelle Railroad Days) and look forward to saying hello to a lot more of you.

--Matt Van Hattem, Senior Editor

[chad thomas]

I don't know about "charter member" but I have been on here about 5 years, although I didn't post for a while. All the rif-raf aside this site has been quite enjoyable. And because of this site I have met some really great people, both here and in person. Before that i never really met many people that were into trains like myself. Thanks for the site Trains

[CShaveRR]

Since 03-2002...back when it was a fun place to be.

  It's his fault!  He got me started!

Almost as long as my "little sister".  My wife says that a lot of the people here are really our peers; we've met a great circle of friends, of all ages.

Carnej1, don't the Flat Wheel Cafe or the Trackside Lounge meet your needs for an occasional off-topic diversion?  (Actually the Lounge doesn't go too far off topic, but very little is off limits, and trains and railroading are what we all have in common.)

[carnej1]

Looking back at forum content as an historical timeline, I'd say that the level of moderation that we all currently "enjoy"  is the biggest change.

In days of old when knights were bold, and the ladies not so particular...it was often fun to  contemplate political obscurities here with other members we all knew and loved.  And before anyone trot's out the  stale old admonishments beckoning "if you want to talk politics, then go to a political forum, blah blah, blah... coward...yada yada..." I'd just like to point out what should be obvious to all other than complete mental midgets.  For those hoping to recruit mindset, the (quote)political (unquote) forums are generally pretty slim pickings. Most of the regulars at political forums are pretty set in their ways, they don't want to learn anything new, and so there is very little to recruit.   In contrast, a  forum such as this is  often teaming with fence sitters who might not have all the facts on a particular issue, and may even be grateful for access to  all the information that will allow them to make truly informed decisions

 I've often thought that it's too bad that these forums don't include what's called a "lounge" area where freewheeling, off topic discussions can be had as many other forums do.....having said that am I to understand that one of your hobbies is posting on web forums for the purpose of "recruiting" people to whatever your ideological cause(s) may be?...My, and to think folks find railfanning an odd pastime....

[eolafan]

I've been a forum participant since December of 2001 and have been participating in and/or creating controversy ever since. Regardless, I continue to enjoy all of my hours involved with each and every one of you on this forum and hope we all can continue to do so for many years to come.

[Mookie]

Since 03-2002...back when it was a fun place to be.

  It's his fault!  He got me started!

[Murphy Siding]

  Do you then go over to political forums, and try to *recruit* people who are "on the fence" about railroads, to come over to this forum?

     Rather than admonish you about the politics thing, I'd simply suggest the following.  Right now, nasty,nasty politics is embedded in just about everything around us.  Just about everything that involves 2 or more voters turns into an ugly us verses them political battle.  Why is it asking too much, to keep this forum focused on trains?  Statistically speaking, I probably disagree with 50% of the posters, on any given political issue.  That doesn't mean that I can't enjoy discussing trains with them.  Can't we leave it at that?

 

Actually, I do spend a fair amount of time butting heads at politically oriented forums which makes the assertions of fear  somehow being an inhibiting factor, laughable. I guess that certain types just like to imply fear as a motive of their chosen opponents, as a means to stroke themselves.

Exactly!! that pretty much is the alpha and the omega of it all, since politics is an inseperable part of just about any meaningful event, why play the ostrich gambit forcing head in the sand?

But, it shouldn't have to, there are many clever people an this forum, and surely they are sophisticated enough to realize that differences of opinion are not only natural, but they are healthy. And merely because someone else feels differently is no absolute deteminant that one party is necessarily right, while the other is necessarily wrong. I think perhaps the failing is the obsession in seeing everything in a "good guys " vs "bad guys" frame of reference, where everyone who believes as (editorially) I do are necessarily "good guys" while all those opposed are necessarily the "bad guys", and that is simply saturday afternoon matinee type thinking.

I frequently see discussion here which I would rather not participate in, so guess what I do? I close the thread and ignore it.  I fail to see why not everyone can be likewise tolerant.

This business of 'hey, I disagree with what is being said, so I'm going to provoke the moderators to close the door to free thinking" sucks .  (profanity, vulgarity, threats, personally targeted attacks,  comments of an explicit sexual nature, or solicitations to commit illegal acts, of course, being the welcome exception)

I guess there will always be that element that runs to an automobile accident to gawk, only to immediately turn and complain about how horrible it all was...but you don't see them outlawing automobiles simply as an appeasement to that minority

  All good points, although the colors make it about impossible to read.   The forums I follow about trains, dirt track car racing, and local/national news have all turned into political hissing matches.  I've given up on several already, that have turned into political sewers, where a comment on the weather can turn into the nuclear war equivilent of a political hissing match.

     I'd hate to see this forum stoop to that level.  For that reason, I try to leave my political views out of it.

     As an example, some time back, a long time poster left after a political firefight.  Later, said poster reappeared under a new name(s).  I PM'd the guy, and asked if he'd consider coming back to the forum, as he is/was an interesting poster to interact with.  What did I get for my troubles?  I got blasted with both barrels for I don't know what reason.  Do we really need any more animosity among posters, for no reason at all?

     Bottom line is this, as this is my hobby, I'd prefer it to be a good get-away place from politics, and other earth-shattering debates like light beer verses dark beer.

     Anybody want to talk about trains?

     ( Apologies to the poster who started this thread.  I've come to appreciate all the posters on this forum, especially those *old timers* who have been around here since long before I came. )

[tree68]

I joined Christmas Day, 2001, and I really don't recall what prompted me to do so.  I don't think I posted for quite a while after that though.  Once I did....

[edblysard]

Since 03-2002...back when it was a fun place to be.

[Modelcar]

...P Z:

I was around before Al Gore....

[vsmith]

My profile says I joined Dec 2001, Wow thats along time!

Use to be much....livelier so to say

In the days before the registration was required any idiot or troll with an axe to grind just post something ugly and it was off to the races. Kept Eric really on his toes as he was the one and only Moderator. We had a long running issue in the early days regarding one midwest state named knucklehead I knicknamed "Misery" here who constantly posted inflamitory topics all but accusing RRs of jumping off the tracks and chasing people across the fields to kill them, I think he was the first member to be permanently BANNED from the site. Thiers a milestone!

Alot of long time posters have faded away or post significantly less these days, myself included, different crowd today, but thats the nature of things old members go fade away, new ones fill there spaces.

[TimChgo9]

I have been a member since....well, it's a while now.

I wasn't here for the  old "tree type" interface. 

I don't think this is the place for politics, but unfortunately, the railroads are tied to politics, and bureacracy.  It is politicians that decide on things like CREATE, the Stagger's Act, and other things. Keeping the discussion within the realm of "railroad politics" if you will.   I generally stay out of the political discussions, only because I get tired of it quickly, and if I don't think I have anything to add, I don't bother with it.

Beyond that, this is a great forum, full of information, and it's interesting to get everyone's views, stories, opinions, and experiences..... 

 

[Convicted One]

 

This section of the TRAINS Magazine Forum now has 908 pages of posts.  I wonder, how many of you original members are still active and posting?  Also, what kind of changes have you seen this forum go through?  

 

I too remember the old "tree" architecture used here before, and the change to the current format (superior in my estimation) was roundly criticized by many who expected things to never change.

 

There have been settings issues that came along with changes, which the staff here listened to attentively and (to their credit) eventually corrected

[Convicted One]

  Do you then go over to political forums, and try to *recruit* people who are "on the fence" about railroads, to come over to this forum?

     Rather than admonish you about the politics thing, I'd simply suggest the following.  Right now, nasty,nasty politics is embedded in just about everything around us.  Just about everything that involves 2 or more voters turns into an ugly us verses them political battle.  Why is it asking too much, to keep this forum focused on trains?  Statistically speaking, I probably disagree with 50% of the posters, on any given political issue.  That doesn't mean that I can't enjoy discussing trains with them.  Can't we leave it at that?

 

Actually, I do spend a fair amount of time butting heads at politically oriented forums which makes the assertions of fear  somehow being an inhibiting factor, laughable. I guess that certain types just like to imply fear as a motive of their chosen opponents, as a means to stroke themselves.

Exactly!! that pretty much is the alpha and the omega of it all, since politics is an inseperable part of just about any meaningful event, why play the ostrich gambit forcing head in the sand?

But, it shouldn't have to, there are many clever people an this forum, and surely they are sophisticated enough to realize that differences of opinion are not only natural, but they are healthy. And merely because someone else feels differently is no absolute deteminant that one party is necessarily right, while the other is necessarily wrong. I think perhaps the failing is the obsession in seeing everything in a "good guys " vs "bad guys" frame of reference, where everyone who believes as (editorially) I do are necessarily "good guys" while all those opposed are necessarily the "bad guys", and that is simply saturday afternoon matinee type thinking.

I frequently see discussion here which I would rather not participate in, so guess what I do? I close the thread and ignore it.  I fail to see why not everyone can be likewise tolerant.

This business of 'hey, I disagree with what is being said, so I'm going to provoke the moderators to close the door to free thinking" sucks .  (profanity, vulgarity, threats, personally targeted attacks,  comments of an explicit sexual nature, or solicitations to commit illegal acts, of course, being the welcome exception)

I guess there will always be that element that runs to an automobile accident to gawk, only to immediately turn and complain about how horrible it all was...but you don't see them outlawing automobiles simply as an appeasement to that minority

[Poppa_Zit]

....I've been around for a while but don't know when this forum really did originate.  Anybody on now know...?

I think it was invented in the 1970s by Al Gore...

[Murphy Siding]

Looking back at forum content as an historical timeline, I'd say that the level of moderation that we all currently "enjoy"  is the biggest change.

In days of old when knights were bold, and the ladies not so particular...it was often fun to  contemplate political obscurities here with other members we all knew and loved.  And before anyone trot's out the  stale old admonishments beckoning "if you want to talk politics, then go to a political forum, blah blah, blah... coward...yada yada..." I'd just like to point out what should be obvious to all other than complete mental midgets.  For those hoping to recruit mindset, the (quote)political (unquote) forums are generally pretty slim pickings. Most of the regulars at political forums are pretty set in their ways, they don't want to learn anything new, and so there is very little to recruit.   In contrast, a  forum such as this is  often teaming with fence sitters who might not have all the facts on a particular issue, and may even be grateful for access to  all the information that will allow them to make truly informed decisions

?  Do you then go over to political forums, and try to *recruit* people who are "on the fence" about railroads, to come over to this forum?

     Rather than admonish you about the politics thing, I'd simply suggest the following.  Right now, nasty,nasty politics is embedded in just about everything around us.  Just about everything that involves 2 or more voters turns into an ugly us verses them political battle.  Why is it asking too much, to keep this forum focused on trains?  Statistically speaking, I probably disagree with 50% of the posters, on any given political issue.  That doesn't mean that I can't enjoy discussing trains with them.  Can't we leave it at that?

[nanaimo73]

....I've been around for a while but don't know when this forum really did originate.  Anybody on now know...?

I believe the Forum opened to the public in the first week of January 2001. There was a member named Chief who joined 3 months before that, but he was probably just setting it up.