Thanks Quentin and deepspire for that information. I do vaguely recall reading somewhere that there were two rail lines leading off of the curve.
Here is an interesting photo I found showing a train on the curve in the days of innocence:
http://www.docheritage.state.pa.us/pics/view.asp?id=16
Is that dark spot on the hill beyond the curve in the right side of the photograph just a tree? It almost looks like a tunnel opening with something leading to it.
....I believe the "dark spot" to the right side of the curve is a small pond of water. There might be a water tank there too. My second thought is it might be the shadow of the water tank....??
If you go back left about 2" from the dark spot....look and you can see a signal bridge across the tracks, and right there is a bit of a wide spot in the row {on the inside of the tracks}, and that is the location where the depot was located.
Quentin
If you'd like to try Google Earth on an abandoned route in the California desert, consider the Tonopah & Tidewater, which was all taken up by the early 1940s.
Start in Ludlow, Calif. (along I-40), on the BNSF main. The T&T had a yard and balloon track there, and headed pretty much due north. You can track the route almost completely for easily over a hundred miles, crossing the UP (old LA&SL) main at Crucero (now population zero), through a huge not-always-dry-lake area, across I-15 (Las Vegas-to-L.A. highway) at Baker (easy to trace through town), past the former Tecopa RR interchange, to Death Valley Jct. (former interchange with the NG Death Valley RR), and on into the Beatty, Nevada, area with other former interchanges. The abandoned connecting lines left a lot of evidence, too.
Easy and fun!
Bucyrus wrote: I have always been intrigued by abandoned railroad beds, especially if they retain a lot of character such as cuts and fills, remains of trestles, bridges, tunnels, etc. Here is a beauty presented in lots of photos including some reference photos of the trains during the time of operation: http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,108977
I have always been intrigued by abandoned railroad beds, especially if they retain a lot of character such as cuts and fills, remains of trestles, bridges, tunnels, etc. Here is a beauty presented in lots of photos including some reference photos of the trains during the time of operation: http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,108977
From the link, the first picture that pops up, there is a portion of a trestle still intact. That trestle is constructed in a particular mannor and it has a name. Can someone tell me what it is? I would offer a reward but i'm too cheep.
.....Bridge design: How about "deck truss"......
Modelcar wrote: .....Bridge design: How about "deck truss"......
Yes, but the unique way the truss is put together is refered to as a "__________________" type truss.
.....Ok, how about a Bollman deck truss bridge......
It's a pin-connected Warren truss.
This is what a Bollman truss looks like:
http://en.structurae.de/files/photos/2765/bollman_87.jpg
Here's a simplified guide to truss types:
http://www.brickwiki.org/index.php?title=Truss_bridges
.....We have a pin connected thru trust bridge here in Muncie.
A railroad bridge no longer used. Abandoned in the 70's. It's a double truss structure in length. I'd have to consult my photos to ID which type of thru truss it is. It sure looks strong to me. It carried big heavy steam engines back when...PRR. It has had no maintenance since the 70's and if the footings stand up, it looks to me it will stand another 100 years.
Bucyrus wrote: I perceive old railroad grades to be historical artifacts that help me feel or visualize the long gone era where they operated. I think of the beehive of activity during the original grading and track laying and all the trains that puffed and clanked over them day and night, in all the seasons, as they outlasted the memories of generations of the people who worked them. How many stories could those silent cuts and fills tell?The old roadbeds do seem to endure relatively long in the west where population is sparser and there is little need to reclaim the land. In the agricultural country of the Midwest, many railroad grades are gone without a trace. Underground though, the artifacts are still there. Railroad grades are littered with old iron; spikes, angle bars, track bolts, nuts, brake shoes, journal box lids, pieces of rail, brake beam hangers, brake rods and pins, couplers, coupler links and pins, draft gear parts, cast iron washers, pieces of firebox grates, etc. Some still lie visible on the surface after a century or more. Some of these generic parts from the 1800s can be quite different from their counterparts from the more recent era. Nineteenth century journal box lids, for example, can be solid cast iron with the manufacturer's name or logo cast into the surface. Many were not hinged, but rather, dropped into a tapered opening like a wedge.Occasionally, one finds evidence of a wreck as a particularly dense profusion of iron parts, sometimes right on the surface or sticking out of the ground. It is possible for these wreck sites to hold any fragment or part imaginable from rolling stock, locomotives, or track-work. Never were all the pieces picked up when a wreck was cleared. Out west, there are wrecks where rolling stock was simply left where it landed, and lies there today.
I perceive old railroad grades to be historical artifacts that help me feel or visualize the long gone era where they operated. I think of the beehive of activity during the original grading and track laying and all the trains that puffed and clanked over them day and night, in all the seasons, as they outlasted the memories of generations of the people who worked them. How many stories could those silent cuts and fills tell?
The old roadbeds do seem to endure relatively long in the west where population is sparser and there is little need to reclaim the land. In the agricultural country of the Midwest, many railroad grades are gone without a trace. Underground though, the artifacts are still there. Railroad grades are littered with old iron; spikes, angle bars, track bolts, nuts, brake shoes, journal box lids, pieces of rail, brake beam hangers, brake rods and pins, couplers, coupler links and pins, draft gear parts, cast iron washers, pieces of firebox grates, etc. Some still lie visible on the surface after a century or more. Some of these generic parts from the 1800s can be quite different from their counterparts from the more recent era. Nineteenth century journal box lids, for example, can be solid cast iron with the manufacturer's name or logo cast into the surface. Many were not hinged, but rather, dropped into a tapered opening like a wedge.
Occasionally, one finds evidence of a wreck as a particularly dense profusion of iron parts, sometimes right on the surface or sticking out of the ground. It is possible for these wreck sites to hold any fragment or part imaginable from rolling stock, locomotives, or track-work. Never were all the pieces picked up when a wreck was cleared. Out west, there are wrecks where rolling stock was simply left where it landed, and lies there today.
I understand your point of view. The area I live in is filled with abandoned roadbeds from trolley lines, interurban lines and the remnants of once great railroad empires. These fill me with with the utmost sense of sadness and irretrievable loss. It also is a testament to what we have foolishly thrown away as a society. This country once had the most efficient, beneficial transportation network in the history of man and we've destroyed most of it. The transport system once paid into the economy and supported it. Now except for the railroads that are left, the transport system can not function without the support of the taxpayer. We are forced to support it and it is now very wasteful as it consumes government subsidies and billions in oil fuel. How far have we fallen!!!
The CRI&P's High Line from McFarland to Belleville, Kansas, via Manhattan (The Little Apple) was once an important bridge between the heavily trafficked Golden State Line and the Denver Line. It was abandoned in the early 80's, though it had been out of service for quite some time before that. Some impressive grades had to be overcome in crossing the Flint Hills. The ROW is not easy to pick out on satellite pictures, because the high definition zoom is garbled (I think that's because there are some military installations nearby), but it is easy to find when your out by foot or car.
Another partially abandoned line is the NS C&F Secondary west of Allentown, PA. The line still sees 2 to 3 switching jobs a day out of Alburtis to the Iron Run Industrial Park and Chapmann Yard, but if you follow the line to the northeast, it just disappears out near Seiple in Whitehall Township. The line used to run all the way to Catasauqua, where it interchanged with the LV, CNJ and L&NE. The former ROW is still easily visible on Google Earth.
...100% agreement of how we have abandoned transportation routes and networks. Engineered transportation lanes destroyed. Not possible to create anything like it now. Land has been saturated with building providing no space to do anything as such without causing all kinds of problems and expense.
The ex-CGW main can still be picked out, especially if one follows the "Illinois Prairie Path" that path is the ex-Chicago Aurora & Elgin interurban, as well as the Chicago and Great Western. It is most visible west of Wolf Rd in Hillside, and then just follow it west. The CGW then diverges in the town of Villa Park. that section is now known as the "Great Western Trail". In Wheaton, the old CA&E bridge over the UP's Geneva Sub is still in use by the Prairie Path.
To find the rough beginnings of the trail Go to "Google Earth" or "Flash Earth" and type in 605 Hillside Ave, Hillside, IL, it's a grade school (the one I attended) zoom in to see detail, and then look about a block north of the school is the Prairie Path as it runs along Electric Ave., from there just scroll west, the path is easy to pick out. The ex CGW can be picked up just north of the Ovaltine Factory (now converted to apartments) on Ardmore Ave, and that trail can be followed all the way out to Route 59, after that, the ROW is still visible, but it's no longer a trail.
In Elmhurst where the ex-IC/ICG would have crossed both lines, there are still some concrete pedestals, covered now by brush, and trees, that probably held signals or something for the crossing. Also, in Elmhurst, they have preserved and old CGW freight depot, it is just east of the water fountain on York Road.
I grew up about a 2 block south of where the CA&E and CGW ran through Hillside. I have very vague recollections of the tracks being torn up (The line was removed in 1972 or so, which would have made me 6 years old at the time). I seem to remember going up there with my mom and two older brothers to watch the track gangs at work.
Take a look at Google Earth or Flash Earth and have fun with it. I don't know how far you can trace either ROW, I only went as far west as Route 59.
There is another one, right off of the EJE near Crest Hill, IL. It's the old connector to the ex-Rock Island. It begins east of Weber Rd, and then curves west and south.(To find it, look south of Caton Farm Rd) It too has been converted to a trail (West of Weber Rd) and is easy to follow. East of Weber Rd, the rails are still in place, as the EJE stores coil cars there. I know around Chicago, there are lots more abandoned lines, but the ones I described above are the ones I am most familiar with.
TimChgo9, the CGW ROW is very visible west of St. St. Charles to the old Jct. with BN(CB&Q) near E. Dubuque. It follows right along Rt. 64 till just past Sycamore than jogs north. Then runs somewhat parellel to Rt. 20 a few miles west of Freeport to Elizabeth, then disapperes into the hills for the descent to the river outside Elizabeth. The route and the tunnel can be seen on any Google map type program, I've got MSN and can see it clearly in most spots.
Edit: after thought. Much of it is so intct you could hike most of the route, though i've heard the tunnel's been filled in. Iit seems much of it around the Elizabeth area is used as an unofficial ATV, horse, and hiking trail.
snagletooth wrote: TimChgo9, the CGW ROW is very visible west of St. St. Charles to the old Jct. with BN(CB&Q) near E. Dubuque. It follows right along Rt. 64 till just past Sycamore than jogs north. Then runs somewhat parellel to Rt. 20 a few miles west of Freeport to Elizabeth, then disapperes into the hills for the descent to the river outside Elizabeth. The route and the tunnel can be seen on any Google map type program, I've got MSN and can see it clearly in most spots.Edit: after thought. Much of it is so intct you could hike most of the route, though i've heard the tunnel's been filled in. Iit seems much of it around the Elizabeth area is used as an unofficial ATV, horse, and hiking trail.
I did take a further look on Google Earth just before reading this, and I was surprised at the distance I was able to follow the ROW.
Another one up around here that's easy to see from the air or ground is the original IC line from Freeport to LaSalle. It's hit or miss south of there. The MLWK line from Davis Jct. south thru Rochelle and DeKalb to LaSalle is mostly reclaimed and hard to spot, though. The CB&Q branch thru Amboy to Rock Falls is still visible in many areas. The M&StL is somewhat visible, mostly around Monmouth, otherwise mostly reclaimed. Rock Island and Southern is nearly invisible from the ground, but much of it can be seen from the air.
It's amazing how many of those old lines that, on the ground are impossible to see because farmers have reclaimed the land, can still be seen on MSN or Google, looking like a ghost, or an X-rayed image from beneath the fields. Kinda erie when you go there and there's nothing but corn growing over with absolutly no signs of ANYTHING else ever having been there.
I have two examples on this topic, one from the past and one from the present.
The present is the remnants of the Southern Branch from Gadsden, AL to Rome, GA, abandoned in the early 50's. The roadbed is visible heading out of North Gadsden on the right side of HW 411. Further out you can see timbers of an old trestle (left side of HW 411) on the bank of a creek. Recently, to the surprise of many, the old depot at Cedar Bluff, AL was found hidden in trees on private property.
The one from the past, years ago when I was growing up in Oklahoma, I was hunting in the vacinity of Indianola, OK. I was tramping in the woods (way out in the boondocks, a long way from any farm or ranch) and came upon an old roadbed, a fill across a low area. I knew it had to be an old road or railroad ROW. This was around 1948 and I was 13 or 14 years of age. I ask my father about it and he said it must have been the old Ft Smith & Western, which was abandoned about 1938 or so. I never was in the area again and probably could not find it today, was so long ago.
Northtowne
....Northtowne:
Why not try to find the image you describe on one of the satellite programs....If you know about where it was you just might be able to bring it up on the satellite image.
It very well might be one of those instances where nothing much is visible on site but might be from the perspective of up in the air.
garyla wrote: If you'd like to try Google Earth on an abandoned route in the California desert, consider the Tonopah & Tidewater, which was all taken up by the early 1940s. Start in Ludlow, Calif. (along I-40), on the BNSF main. The T&T had a yard and balloon track there, and headed pretty much due north. You can track the route almost completely for easily over a hundred miles, crossing the UP (old LA&SL) main at Crucero (now population zero), through a huge not-always-dry-lake area, across I-15 (Las Vegas-to-L.A. highway) at Baker (easy to trace through town), past the former Tecopa RR interchange, to Death Valley Jct. (former interchange with the NG Death Valley RR), and on into the Beatty, Nevada, area with other former interchanges. The abandoned connecting lines left a lot of evidence, too.Easy and fun!
Railway Man wrote: It's a pin-connected Warren truss.This is what a Bollman truss looks like:http://en.structurae.de/files/photos/2765/bollman_87.jpg Here's a simplified guide to truss types:http://www.brickwiki.org/index.php?title=Truss_bridges
The bridge pictured and the two bridges that span the Rio Grande in El Paso are constructed of box girders with bands of metal rivited in a triangular fashion. Would this type of bridge fall under the 'Bollman' category?
ps: I'll have to wait till 4-26 to get the answer. Going on detail.
That should have been a fun ride! Some adjacent areas are now either designated "wilderness" or are under National Park Service control, but I think that it's still possible to do most or all of that route itself without too much hassle. (Maybe no side trips.) It's good to have a current Auto Club map of San Bernardino County, or some sort of guide map from the NPS. Of course, the scenery and old ROW are almost frozen in time. Beware of washout damage on the road south of Crucero.
Google the words "Tonopah" and "Tidewater", and one of the first listings is a site with a detailed and well-photographed Range Rover expedition over a long stretch of the T&T route.
If you find Crucero interesting at all, get a copy of the Union Pacific Historical Society's magazine Streamliner, vol. 13, #3, circa 1999. It had a long and very thorough article on that lonely outpost. The UPHS site lists that edition as still in print.
There are few in my neck of the woods.
The Erie ran from Youngstown to Marion then to Chicago, there are only bits and peices left of it. I remember going through Sterling, Oh. crossing both the B&O (CSX) Main and EL and seeing signals glowing red, and always wished we would get stoped by a train on the Erie, it never happen. Now that Im older I no why we didn't see any trains then. West of Sterling over in Lodi, Oh. the B&O had a Branch that went down to Wooster (my home town) and then continoued to Millersburg it was pulled in 1971, 2 yrs after the great 69 flood. The only piece left of this line is about 3 miles worth in wooster, the rest is lost in time. Over in Smuckerland (Orrville, Oh.) the old CA&C (PRR) ran from Akron through Orrville to Columbus, it was pulled sometime just after Conrail was formed, from Orrville to Columbus. Orrville to Akron remain to service up into the early 90's I think, Chessie used it to get to Wooster twice a week from Akron, until the lease ran out. I think that is also the reason why CSX pulled #2 from Warwick (Clinton) to Akron.
About a year ago I bot a book about a railroad that I didn't even know of, that ran close to home, The Lorain Ashland & Southern ran from Custouga Jct. ( between Lakeville and Big Prairre, OH.) through Ashland to Lorain, it was abandoned in 1927, there are only 2 little segment left. one in Ashalnd and the other in Lorain.
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