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$24M verdict upheld in railroad burn case Locked

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$24M verdict upheld in railroad burn case
Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 11:48 AM
http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/219163

I really don't know what to say. Except it is a sad day in america.


It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by zardoz on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 12:22 PM

Just because someone is a judge doesn't automatically mean that they have one ounce of 'common' sense.  And juries are usually made up of people not smart enough to figure out how to get out of jury duty.

From the article: "Jurors determined Norfolk Southern and Amtrak could have prevented the accident by placing warning signs alerting people to the electrified catenary wires, which power locomotives, Roda said."  I wonder how close the signs would have to be to each other for these moron jurors to feel that "adequate protection" has been provided.  And of course this assumes that the potential victim can read whichever language the sign is written.

And then there's this: "During the trial, Stengel wrote, the railroad companies' attorneys "demeaned" the two young men "for their lack of intelligence, judgment and common sense in choosing to climb to the top of the boxcar."  Well, yeah, like, DUH!  Should they have been praised for their ability and courage to climb on top of a box car?

But what would you expect from a "justce" system that would have a homeowner responsible for injuries suffered by someone burglarizing their house?

So there you have it.  A sad day, indeed.  I imagine Lady Justice is spinning in her grave.

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Posted by Rustyrex on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 12:43 PM

Quote "The young men's attorney, Joseph F. Roda, of Lancaster, explained after the verdict that the case wasn't about the teenagers' admitted trespassing, but was about the railroad knowing there was a hidden high voltage hazard on the property."

So the railroad had something on THEIR private property that could be dangerous to a non employee trespasser, that the teens admitted to tresspassing on????  What is wrong with this case.

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 1:49 PM
Please tell me this is an April Fools day trick.....Banged Head [banghead]
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Posted by n012944 on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 2:36 PM
 Rustyrex wrote:

Quote "The young men's attorney, Joseph F. Roda, of Lancaster, explained after the verdict that the case wasn't about the teenagers' admitted trespassing, but was about the railroad knowing there was a hidden high voltage hazard on the property."

So the railroad had something on THEIR private property that could be dangerous to a non employee trespasser, that the teens admitted to tresspassing on????  What is wrong with this case.

Are the power lines invisable?

An "expensive model collector"

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Posted by csxengineer98 on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 2:42 PM

i wounder if the judge would feel differntly if someone was tresspassing on his propory and got hurt and then they sued him for a 24 million dollor judgment.... 

csx engineer 

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Posted by TPWRY on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 3:54 PM
this is why i say the US court system is SCREWED UP c'mon the teenagers were at fault so you penalize the INNOCENT PARTY
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Posted by CNW 6000 on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 5:09 PM

 TPWRY wrote:
this is why i say the US court system is SCREWED UP c'mon the teenagers were at fault so you penalize the INNOCENT PARTY

Those kids don't deserve a nickel.  Had they not committed a crime (trespassing) then these injuries wouldn't have happened.  That judge should be disbarred.  Thanks for spitting on the face of the country.

Dan

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Posted by Lord Atmo on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 5:42 PM

oh for the love of....

this is no different than idiotic motorists suing the railroad when a train smashes their car at a crossing because they tried to beat it.

both events can seriously injure or even kill you. and it's always YOUR FAULT!

What does this judge expect amtrak or NS to do? line the whole freaking wire with warning signs?!?

Your friendly neighborhood CNW fan.

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Posted by alphas on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 5:55 PM
This case still has aways to go.   It will be appealed to the federal Appeals Court and, if nothing else, it might be more receptive to the arguement that the damages go beyond what the US Supreme Court has allowed.  It also has a chance to make it to the US Supreme Court--the issue of contibutory negligence by the plantiffs is something the judges could be interested in. 
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 6:03 PM
The fact that these two weren't picked up for trespass should be their only reward, because they deserve absolutly nothing. There's something seriously wrong with the legal system in this country, and there is no justice, not when people that do stupid things are rewarded.
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Posted by trainfan1221 on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 6:10 PM
Lets hope a different court turns the tables on this one, and investigates how such a stupid decision could have been made.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 6:34 PM

It's possible the justice system shorted on all of that jiuce flowing to the trespassers.

They got fried so be it. They should not get a penny, instead should be billed for it all.

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Posted by Ishmael on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 7:05 PM

 trainfan1221 wrote:
Lets hope a different court turns the tables on this one, and investigates how such a stupid decision could have been made.

This is my take on this case. It's five years old already and not a penny has been paid. These trespassers won't see any money either, unless and until a superior court agrees. That may be another five years and it may be never.

Many a big money case has been overturned on appeal on the basis of assumption of risk. So stay cool.

 

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Posted by CTValleyRR on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 7:06 PM

So, did anybody read past the first two paragraphs of the story?

Now, I'm not defending the two yutzes by any means.  Personally, I think you do something like this, and you deserve to spend the rest of your life partially disabled with burns over 75% of your body.  That should give you a lot of time to reflect upon your own lack of common sense and judgement (although 17 year olds are NOT reknowned for either).

However, how such a thing could have happened -- the verdict, that is, not the incident -- is really rather obvious.

Consider (and I have not seen or read the decision):

1) While the average non-railfan does know that trains on some lines are powered by electricity, they don't generally know how much.  An informal survey of my wife and 12 year old came up with 1000 volts and 300 volts, respectively.

2) The average non-railfan may not actually be aware of whether a line is active or not, and whether any catenaries are live, especially if he doesn't live in the area.

3) In the judges words, "The defendants [Amtrak and Norfolk Southern] really presented no evidence."

4) 'During the trial, Stengel wrote, the railroad companies' attorneys "demeaned" the two young men "for their lack of intelligence, judgment and common sense in choosing to climb to the top of the boxcar." '   Good idea, that!  I'm sure that didn't **** off anyone on the jury.

5) "The verdict was against the great weight of the defendants' [the railroads'] bluster," Stengel wrote. "It was not against the great weight of the evidence."  Right.  You have a 17 year old burned and disabled plaintiff sitting in the courtroom.  That's already a huge sympathy vote from any juror who has children, or even knows people who do.

So, although I've only seen the judge's words and the reporters version of events, it sounds to me like the railroads' legal team handled the case badly, probably proceeding from the assumption that everyone would think that "the stupid shall be punished" and that he / they didn't have to work too hard.  If I were the president of Norfolk Southern, my legal team would be looking for work today.

Unfortunately, an appeal based on the defendants not liking the verdict is unlikely.  They would have to show that the verdict violated some precedent or that due process was not followed.  Well, we can hope that the appelate court will hear the case, and that the defendants show up with competent representation.

Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford

"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 7:23 PM

these weren't 8 yr old kids.  They were 17.  I'm sorry, but when I was 17, I didn't climb on stuff right under wires.

Just more loss of personal responsibility. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 7:25 PM

Im pretty firm in my conviction that they were on top of a railcar, unfortunately for them there was wire up there. And they fried for it.

I cannot stand the thought of the railroad being slapped on the wrist and forced to hand over 24 million for nothing.

I say this.... put those two to work in thier local area to present school presentations to grade 6 and under as living examples of the dangers of trespassing onto railroad property.

Have them do one per week, per school.

That way they can work for the railroad in a positive manner and hopefully save it again from another idiot climbing up onto those railcars and getting fried again.

Forget the 24 clams, hand them what they need to get around, a minivan, wheel chair etc... and reasonable consideration for thier disabilities. Then send them out to thier new livelihood working for the railroad.

who knows? they might actually get good at it and go on to productive lives.

By the way, crank up the juice on those wires so they crackle and hum with a potential threat of death as to stike fear into hearts of other little boys.

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 7:34 PM

The one guy that was zapped was in the U.S. Army.. so he wasn't hurt that bad (or that permanently).

 I don't think they should turn up the juice int he wires... that would toast the toasters...

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by CTValleyRR on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 7:47 PM
 zugmann wrote:

these weren't 8 yr old kids.  They were 17.  I'm sorry, but when I was 17, I didn't climb on stuff right under wires.

Just more loss of personal responsibility. 

Since when do 17 year olds exhibit good judgement and common sense?

When I was 17, I didn't climb on stuff right under wires.... but that's probably because I didn't live near any.

I did, however, drink to the point where I could barely stand (yes, at 17), then get in my parents car and speed to the next party.  That's INFINITELY dumber than than anything they did.

Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford

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Posted by CNW 6000 on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 7:49 PM
Based on said "fact" you're lucky you didn't find your "wire".  I was taught that if it's not yours...don't touch it.  That thinking alone would have saved them.  Sue the parents for $24M.

Dan

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 7:52 PM
So if you were driving drunk and crashed into a utility pole - would you support suing the utility company for having the audacity to place that pole there??

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by CNW 6000 on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 8:04 PM

Who is responsible for the upbringing of these youth?  Teaching them right from wrong?  If they're too old to hold that party responsible then they (the "kids") should be held responsible.  Unless the RR CO. invited/told them to climb on the cars, the kids are the ones who screwed up.

I support holding the driver of the car responsible unless it's a minor and then you can bring the parents into the equation.

Dan

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Posted by choochoobuff on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 8:17 PM
The next time someone asks you or me why people are becoming more and more ignorant, just point out this piece.  After all apparently ignorance pays after all.
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Posted by rrnut282 on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 9:05 PM
 CTValleyRR wrote:

5) "The verdict was against the great weight of the defendants' [the railroads'] bluster," Stengel wrote. "It was not against the great weight of the evidence."  Right. 

I'm no legal beagle, but when I read that statement from the judge (supposedly) presiding over the case, I about fell out of my chair.  Isn't it the job of the judge to make sure the jury considers the evidence and not emotions???  That comment alone should make good grist in an appeal.

Would this case have made it to trial if they had climbed a power pole in an industrial park? 

Mike (2-8-2)
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Posted by CSXDixieLine on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 10:24 PM
I agree with CTValleyRR in the assessment that ignorance towards the railroads has a lot to do with this verdict. I woud like also to ask all of the jurors if they feel they would be liable for damages if said teenagers had climbed on the roof of their house to get a "view of the city" and were zapped by high voltage lines.
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Posted by switch7frg on Wednesday, April 2, 2008 10:34 PM
  The only true ( winner) in this fiasco is " Sharky Roda" .  Sheesshhh, nuff said

Y6bs evergreen in my mind

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Posted by MStLfan on Thursday, April 3, 2008 6:16 AM
 Rustyrex wrote:

Quote "The young men's attorney, Joseph F. Roda, of Lancaster, explained after the verdict that the case wasn't about the teenagers' admitted trespassing, but was about the railroad knowing there was a hidden high voltage hazard on the property."

Yea, right, the railroad didn't know there was a hidden high voltage hazard on the property....

greetings,

Marc Immeker

For whom the Bell Tolls John Donne From Devotions upon Emergent Occasions (1623), XVII: Nunc Lento Sonitu Dicunt, Morieris - PERCHANCE he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill, as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that.
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Posted by zardoz on Thursday, April 3, 2008 6:33 AM
 marcimmeker wrote:
 Rustyrex wrote:

Quote "The young men's attorney, Joseph F. Roda, of Lancaster, explained after the verdict that the case wasn't about the teenagers' admitted trespassing, but was about the railroad knowing there was a hidden high voltage hazard on the property."

Yea, right, the railroad didn't know there was a hidden high voltage hazard on the property....

greetings,

Marc Immeker

And your point is...........?

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 3, 2008 6:58 AM

 zugmann wrote:
So if you were driving drunk and crashed into a utility pole - would you support suing the utility company for having the audacity to place that pole there??

It may seem like anyone who trespasses deservers whatever they get, but it is not that simple.  If it were, nobody would have to worry about liability hazards on their property. 

And people do indeed get sued for placing solid obstacles on their own private property that were subsequently struck by drunk drivers.  There are laws in some states where authorities can enter your private property and remove such obstacles or roadway departure hazards as they are called.

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Posted by youngengineer on Thursday, April 3, 2008 7:33 AM
 Rustyrex wrote:

Quote "The young men's attorney, Joseph F. Roda, of Lancaster, explained after the verdict that the case wasn't about the teenagers' admitted trespassing, but was about the railroad knowing there was a hidden high voltage hazard on the property."

HIDDEN? last time I saw a high voltage line, it didnt seem to hidden to me. To put up danger high voltage signs everywhere is like the caution sign on a lawn mower to not put your foot under the lawn mower deck. I've done stupid things in my life, but I was always punished for them, maybe I should sue my parents for not giving me toys when I was bad.

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