desertdogK.P., As to why the single crossover is being installed away from the west switch at Picacho, there may be a need to stop eastbound trains on Main #2 if they are picking up or dropping off cars for Phoenix. Putting the crossover at a distance allows for trains to enter Main #1 and either head up the wye to the Phoenix Sub or continue east on Main #1 around any stopped trains that would be otherwise be fouling Main #2. John Timm
As to why the single crossover is being installed away from the west switch at Picacho, there may be a need to stop eastbound trains on Main #2 if they are picking up or dropping off cars for Phoenix.
Putting the crossover at a distance allows for trains to enter Main #1 and either head up the wye to the Phoenix Sub or continue east on Main #1 around any stopped trains that would be otherwise be fouling Main #2.
John Timm
Another consideration can be seen from the aerial photos. It appears that track realignment is likely just east of the SR-87 overpass, and that would be a bad place for a turnout. If I'm reading K.P.'s photos of the int. signals properly a LH crossover is planned. Perhaps some photos of new intermediates east of CP SP938 would reveal 'the rest of the story'.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
KP,
This looks like relocating Main two to a new alignment with either less curviture or less severe curvature, presumably to emiminate a speed restriction. Is that correct?
Will they use the existing bridge at the west end?
Thank You.
Mac McCulloch
After visiting the UP 844 steam engine in Bloomington yesterday, I had the opportunity to survey areas not visited in person for many months.
The flyover support in the middle of Milliken Ave has the forms removed:
Like the Sunset Ave flyover, an optical illusion makes it look a little short.
Just east along Guasti Road the long length of this structure can be seen:
The 'box' structure currently ends at the Vina Vista switch, but this may be temporary until the siding is cut back:
Disappointingly, no more construction prep was seen proceeding west along the Alhambra sub. Only in Montclair on the LA sub side was anything new seen:
Looking east along State St., a new signal bridge at CP C036 Montclair is in place. The counterpart new colorlight signal for westbounds can be seen at the photo right edge.
-- Mike
MikeF90 desertdog: K.P., As to why the single crossover is being installed away from the west switch at Picacho, there may be a need to stop eastbound trains on Main #2 if they are picking up or dropping off cars for Phoenix. Putting the crossover at a distance allows for trains to enter Main #1 and either head up the wye to the Phoenix Sub or continue east on Main #1 around any stopped trains that would be otherwise be fouling Main #2. John Timm Another consideration can be seen from the aerial photos. It appears that track realignment is likely just east of the SR-87 overpass, and that would be a bad place for a turnout. If I'm reading K.P.'s photos of the int. signals properly a LH crossover is planned. Perhaps some photos of new intermediates east of CP SP938 would reveal 'the rest of the story'.
desertdog: K.P., As to why the single crossover is being installed away from the west switch at Picacho, there may be a need to stop eastbound trains on Main #2 if they are picking up or dropping off cars for Phoenix. Putting the crossover at a distance allows for trains to enter Main #1 and either head up the wye to the Phoenix Sub or continue east on Main #1 around any stopped trains that would be otherwise be fouling Main #2. John Timm
MikeF90,
Along the lines of what you are saying, I wonder if it is a good idea to install a crossover under a bridge (SR- 87), given the derailment potential. That would be yet another reason to move it further west from the junction.
Another Unexpected Trip to Arizona
Part IV (of I-IV), Section A (of A-K)
From Red Rock, AZ to the Junction with the Phoenix Line at Picacho
Between ("Between") Marsh Station Rd. and Red Rock K.P. observed NO two-tracking, outside of the completed grading that was completed a few years ago. However, at the east end of the Red Rock siding (M.P. 952), something was brewing, with a small amount of activity.
About five miles to the west, new color light signals have been erected.
In that vicinity, wires were being unstrung.
Continued in Section B
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Part IV, Section B (of A-K)
Also, a couple of smaller electrical boxes were now at that site, boxes most often associated with intermediate signals. There are no public grade crossings in this area that would need such boxes.
The new intermediate signals instillation is very near, and in sight of, old intermediates.
The incomplete, partial new signal instillations and their limited pattern so far between Red Rock and Wymola had led K.P. to question whether the future Red Rock Yard would ever be built. Especially since whatever is to be built at Santa.Teresa in New Mexico is supposed to be 11 miles long, perhaps Red Rock will be forsaken for Santa Teresa. Time will tell on these things, but the signal pattern in the Red Rock-Wymola area has to make one wonder.
Continued in Section C
Part IV, Section C (of A-K)
Just east of the EAST switch of the Wymola siding at CP SP945 WYMOLA, another set of intermediates have been erected. The view looks eastward. This set has lower east side westbound heads.
Nearby, west of the above, is that current CP.
There seems to be six signal masts by the Wymola siding's staging area.
A side note possibility: If two of those masts were erected between the intermediates in the second photo in Section A and the first photo in that same section, and then four masts installed at a universal crossover CP at the east switch of the present Red Rock siding (first photo of Section A), all signaling from Red Rock to Wymola would be accounted for that is at the staging area.
Oddly, there are two areas of wider grading eastward to Red Rock ... Slide-move the views as needed.
A couple of miles west of Park Link Road
The east switch of the Red Rock siding
Back to the Wymola area, there are still a lot of small bridge parts and ties at the Wymola staging area.
Continued in Section D
Part IV, Section D (of A-K)
Absolute signals for a new double-crossover have been put up just WEST of the present Wymola west end CP.
A look at that new CP
Continued in Section E
Part IV, Section E (of A-K)
As it was getting dark the evening before (Friday, November 4), the new track between CP SP943 WYMOLA (the west Wymola CP) and CP SP938 PICACHO was observed to be about half laid, with not much progress since K.P.'s previous visit a month and a half earlier.
On the revisit the next day, Saturday, November 5, track laying was going full steam westward, which technically is super slow. But much westward progress had been done before K.P. got there. Matter of fact, the effort had almost reached the east switch of the Picacho sidings.
From the SAME camera location as the photo above, a wider angle view to give the forum a feeling of just how much the track laying progress had reached in just one day. The yellow track laying machine is in view-alignment with the two orange vested workers on the lower right, and just a block further east of them.
Continued in Section F
Part IV, Section F (of A-K)
Interstate 10 closely follows the tracks in this area, with Camino Adelante Rd. following between I-10 and the tracks. Such afforded K.P. the opportunity to get a good look at the track laying, and he got some photos, with some shared as follows ...
The track laying machine:
In the above photo, the high yellow item on the far right is not part of the track laying machine in itself, but very much related. More in a few post sections ...
A belted army tank-like machine runs in advance aligning the rails from off the ground.
Then, ties move down a ramp and rested on the ground, and the rails laid on top of them.
Continued in Section G
Part IV, Section G (of A-K)
The tie laying progressive, repetitive process:
The rails lower and then wheels roll over them.
In the last photo above, note how the rails are just above the ties on the left, but bend down to them on the right.
Continued in Section H
Part IV, Section H (of A-K)
In Section F, a yellow machine, a "yellow item on the far right" was mentioned. It is part of a railroad on top of a railroad! Above railcars are tracks and a yellow machine runs back and forth on them bring ties to go down the ramp for tie laying.
The controller gets a view perspective that even locomotive trainmen don't even get: A train moving ON TOP OF a train!
Continued in Section I
Part IV, Section I (of A-K)
Just east of the present CP SP938 PICACHO, beyond the Picacho Blvd grade crossing, will be a new relocated CP, and the box for is on site.
There were workers and equipment going every which way.
Continued in Section J
Part IV, Section J (of A-K)
And a truck and trailer with insulated joint rails showed up.
Continued in Section K
Part IV, Section K (of A-K)
Looking west from Picacho Blvd. at the south siding:
That above siding will likely be torn out with new rails and ties put down on possibly a wider, new alignment for the future Main 2, just like the old Casa Grande siding was in the M.P. 917 area..
In assessing the Picacho area situation, K.P. has gotten the distinct feeling that next both to the west and the east that a new second-track will be put in service. That would allow the very busy dual Picacho sidings to be taken out of service (at least the south one) and the track and switches rebuilt and repositioned.
It should be remembered that a single-crossover is being put in east of Eloy (to the west of but not at Picacho - See Part II, Sections I [as in eye] and J), and track is being laid east of Picacho. So, it will be interesting to find out if K.P.'s assessment of the area activity is as theorized.
Finally, K.P. managed to visit the west end of the Picacho sidings, and two things of significance was seen.
First, those mysterious floodlights: There were FOUR autorack cars parked by the floodlights. The floodlights MAY be there to simply protect transported autos (in small setouts) from the vandalism of determined lawless ones.
Second, in the photo just above, a CP box is visible behind the bushes on the right. The view was blown up and examined, and the white CP nameplate seems to be blank, typical of new, pre-installations. So, the box is probably related to the two-tracking, and because it is at a junction, a new CP box replacement will definitely be needed there.
The above photo was shot on November 4, when sandstorm dust was rampant in the whole area's air! November 5 was clear and wonderful.
This will end the "Another Unexpected Trip to Arizona" post series.
K.P.,
Do you have any idea what that huge box-bodied truck in the third photo of Secton I above, contains? That same truck, or one exactly like it, was at the track realignment project site near Empirita Road east of Tucson, Arizona on Saturday, November 19, where a sizeable crew seemed to be installing another block signal control box.
K. P. Harrier Another Unexpected Trip to Arizona Part IV, Section I (of A-K) From Red Rock, AZ to the Junction with the Phoenix Line at Picacho [snipped] There were workers and equipment going every which way. Continued in Section J
[snipped] There were workers and equipment going every which way.
http://www.hollandco.com/rail-welding-services/mod-services-/mfbw/rail-gang-welding-1 and
http://www.hollandco.com/rail-welding-services/mod-services-/mfbw/crop-weld-1
http://www.progressrail.com/rail-welding.asp and
http://www.progressrail.com/docs/rail-welding.pdf
http://www.deltarr.com/flashbutt/
http://www.railway-technology.com/contractors/engineering/ha-schlatter/ha-schlatter4.html
K.P. - Did anyone hassle you, ask what you were doing, or did they just ignore you ?
- Paul North.
Great photos and descriptions, as always.
I have the same question as Paul North: at any time did you feel hassled? I have always been reluctant to get too close or be too obvious about taking pictures.
Replies:
PNWRMNM (11-19):
Hi Mac!
No, the Marsh Station Rd. area Main 2 relocation has to do with eliminating the low clearance railroad bridge over I-10.
Yes, the old railroad bridge where the old and new Main 2's meet at the west end of the relocation will remain.
MikeF90 (11-19):
That was a very, very enlightening photo report that you posted, Mike. Thanks.
Of special note was the third photo thereof. As you indicated, the east slope of the Milliken Ave. Flyover ends (on the third photo's far right concreting) at a location known as Vina Vista. Your photo of that ending concrete reminded me of the City of Industry's Flyover, previously mentioned in this thread as the 'Up and Over.' (The below reshown photo was shot a few years ago when that flyover was still under construction.)
The below northward looking 'Up and Over' also reshown photo is of the eastern end of that 1.6 mile structure (then still incomplete).
In that above photo, the ballasted track is slantingly elevating BEFORE the flyover begins, and rises up (photo leftward) unto that flyover. Undoubtedly, the Milliken Ave. Flyover will do likewise, or something similar.
But wait, Mike ... Yesterday, by prearrangement, I took a personal friend of nearly 40 years to the Fontana Kaiser medical facility for a needed test (he couldn't drive afterward for a while) , and I was able to have some free time for a couple of hours, so I checked out the Milliken Ave. Flyover site. The end of the flyover is higher than I thought! With all your enlightening posted photos in mind and the groundwork they set, some very key additional photos were taken. The photos also shed light on the related north-south industrial track you had previously inquired about. I should have a report for the forum on all this in a day or two, or three.
Replies continued ...
Replies (Continued) ...
Paul D. North Jr. (11-21):
Thanks for identifying the welding rail vehicle that cacole inquired about (that I also wondered about), and sharing the descriptive links. It broadened my understanding of the track aspect of railroading.
Herein are five photos I took last year of such equipment on the Overland Route, or the Central Corridor, at Kearney, Nebraska, where sometimes 150 trains a day pass on Union Pacific's triple-track line.
So, I guess Paul, the hi-rail 'welding vehicle' does even more, including being equipped for cutting rails!
Paul D. North Jr. and desertdog (11-21):
No, I have not been hassled per se.
After 9-11, all us railfans and interested observers (that are old enough, anyway) went through a transition period. Years ago we use to take liberties, and the railroads didn't mind. But, paranoia set in after 9-11, and a whole different world arose. Railfans learned to stay completely off railroad property, and railroads learned the hard way what happens when they encroach on American's civil liberties.
I've found that railroaders (especially two-trackers) are very, very leery of people with a camera, so I just try to be super friendly and chat with them. They soon realize I'm on their side. They also usually warm up, and we laugh and joke together. They feel better when they know someone's intent is NOT to photo document some error on their part. Their livelihoods are not in jeopardy with me. Sometimes we forget that there are forces and evil intended people out to get railroads and railroaders for whatever reason, unbelievable as that may be.
I had an interesting experience recently near Colton Crossing here in California.
A file photo.
A Union Pacific Special Agent on foot after leaving his police vehicle gradually worked his way over too me, and seemed terribly suspicious of me and my camera. Our talk turned into a friendly discussion. He seemed to have become convinced I was in fact just a railfan documenting events for history's sake of current railroad happenings (and their news value). Both of us laughed and joked, had a good time, and also compared notes on both of our childhoods. Such railroad protectors feel better once they are convinced a person is not out to get the railroad, nor have some other evil intent.
I hope this conveyance of my experiences satisfies both of your inquiries.
Best,
K.P.
An Overview Report on the Milliken Ave. Flyover
Ontario, CA
Part A (of A-K)
MikeF90 in recent times inquired if K.P. had any east-west Milliken Ave. Flyover area (Ontario, CA) photos of the WEST slope, and also of the north-south industrial track west of Millliken Ave. (which track connects to the Sunset Route on the south side). It has taken nearly a month and several passes through the area to investigate and photograph the situation at Milliken Ave. Then, MikeF90 himself visited the site, and contributed some very enlightening photos. His photos were very opportune, and set the groundwork for my further investigation when some rare time finally opened up. Thanks Mike! What follows is an eleven-part series (on an east to west basis) that hopefully will show a more comprehensive picture series than previously on this project area.
The East End
K.P. found the east end of the flyover for the future Main 2 rather bizarre. The far side walling is higher than the near (camera) side walling! In reviewing K.P.'s file photos, it appears that the height difference carries through to Milliken Ave., though it does not seem so pronounced, or obvious, there.
Also, in comparison to the ends of the City of Industry's 'Up and Over,' the Milliken Ave. east end towers much more. The west end of the flyover does NOT appear to be that way (photos in a later Part in this series). So, the east end may not actually be the east end, but may be waiting for the removal of the south side industrial track that is basically in the way. That track and its automatic absolute signal are most likely on borrowed time.
The Eastern Climb
From the north side along Guasti Rd., a southwestward view of the getting higher flyover:
Continued in Part B
Part B (of A-K)
The East Side of Milliken Ave.
Nearing the east side of Milliken Ave., the westward ascent of the the flyover and its internal dirt packing abruptly ends.
The east support, with a higher south side part (left).
A view of both east (left) and center (right) supports.
Continued in Part C
Part C (of A-K)
Looking east from the west side of Milliken Ave: Note the forms on the photo right.
Just one day later, that east support had tarp wrapping all over it!
A south side telephoto looking east. Note the 'entrance signal' (discussed in Part A) just right of the background eastward descending flyover. Note, too, the background cleared land in the photo's center. That land continues farther back toward the distant freeway bridging.
A question: Will the south side industrial track with that automatic absolute signal (above) be relocated to an alignment on that cleared land path?
Continued in Part D
Part D (of A-K)
The West Side of Milliken Ave.
As with the east side tarp now being present in just one day, in one day also the west side flyover future support had much activity pertaining to it.
Then, Milliken Ave. was blocked for a short time ...
... and the equipment picked up something previously staged in the middle of Milliken Ave. and brought it to the west side.
Continued in Part E
Part E (of A-K)
It was eventually laid down on the west side of Milliken Ave., but soon was raised up again ...
... and positioned on the street side of the vertical rebar. The above views were from the south side. As viewed from the north side now, the form was anchored down.
Continued in Part F
Part F (of A-K)
The boom truck's extended arm reaches high up. Notice the initial braces now on the lower left.
Huge, heavy blocks had been brought to the site beforehand so that stabilizing braces could be attached.
An overall view of those initial braces is in the last photo of Part E just before this Part. Undoubtedly, further braces were erected after K.P. left the scene.
NOW, A SUPER IMPORTANT PHOTO: The narrow pathway immediately south of the flyover, looking west with the north-south industrial track plainly seen now (just below the yellow equipment) because there happened to be no construction equipment obstructing the view path.
Continued in Part G
Part G (of A-K)
The Western Slope
Some views from the west's north side ...
The flyover's west side along Guasti Rd. is NOT very high.
But, it ends prematurely with a dirt slope before reaching that north-south industrial track.
The UNSEEN to the camera south side industrial track (that comes towards the camera below mainline track level) curves photo rightward, and the building alongside it curves likewise.
The above photo is very deceptive as to where things are located. The following Google link is provided to put matters into correct perfective, with the derail (above photo far right) in the aerial's middle / sometimes left side:
The Perspective Link
Continued in Part H
Part H (of A-K)
That deceptively located purple disk for the derail that protects the mainline (seen) from the industrial track (unseen). Note the heavy duty vertical I-beams in the ground on the right.
In the above photo, the rails on the photo bottom are ribbon rails that are just lying on the right-of-way.
The old switch stand ... and an old SP style silver 'something' pertaining to the switch ...
The north-south industrial track and its connection to the east-west mainline was put in before the SP-UP merger, hence, the old style switch equipment.
Continued in Part I
Part I (of A-K)
And, then the flyover's westward (rightward) walling begins anew ... with digging equipment partially in front of it.
Note above, on the left, that the walling begins with a straight up end, much as the walling currently does on the flyover walling's EAST end (see Part A) that K.P. feels will need to be extended eastward after the turnout in that area is removed.
The west side walling then continually lowers westward (rightward).
From Milliken Ave. looking west from the north side of the present single-track Main, with the west side's EAST walling on the bottom left, and the west side WEST walling in the lower center. The north-south industrial track is between them. In comparing the west side's EAST walling with the WEST walling's SLANT, much work is yet to be done on the whole west side. A parked eastbound was in the Guasti siding.
So, that is the east-west line's Milliken Ave. Flyover. Now, for the connecting north-south industrial track ...
Continued in Part J
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