Sunset Route Two-Tracking Updates

[K. P. Harrier]

desertdog (6-15):

desertdog

... brings to mind something I observed at Maricopa last week: when a train occupies a block in two-track territory, the signal behind and facing away from the direction of the train's movement displays green until that train has moved into the next block further away from it ...

Regarding the green signal that would normally be red, was the location by Anderson Rd. or at Hartman Rd., and involve Main 2 by any chance?

K.P.

 

[desertdog]

K. P. Harrier

desertdog (6-15):

 

desertdog:

 

... brings to mind something I observed at Maricopa last week: when a train occupies a block in two-track territory, the signal behind and facing away from the direction of the train's movement displays green until that train has moved into the next block further away from it ...

 

 

Regarding the green signal that would normally be red, was the location by Anderson Rd. or at Hartman Rd., and involve Main 2 by any chance?

K.P.

 

 

K.P.,

It was at Porter Rd. on Main 1.

 

John Timm

 

[K. P. Harrier]

desertdog (6-15a):

Hmmm.

OK, John, was the train that was on Main 1 at Porter Rd. in Maricopa, AZ a westbound or an eastbound?  And, from what location did you see the green signal at Porter Rd.?

K.P.

 

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

To clarify: This would be the signal that you would see if you were looking backwards from the rear car of the train ? 

A guess is that the single track's signalling was designed and installed to select a 'designated direction' in the direction the train was heading.  As one result of that, all other possible conflicting moves in the opposite direction would see Red.  That would preclude reverse moves without contacting the DS to change the direction or authorize passing the red signal, etc. 

But the double-track's signalling system may be bi-directional all the time, and so not care which direction the train is heading - it will report and display track occupancy conditions in each direction all the time, so a reverse move could be safely performed without contacting the DS.

More briefly, it seems the entire signal system was changed and upgraded at the same time the line was expanded to 2 Main Tracks. 

Perhaps someone better versed in signals can furnish a better and more detailed explanantion. 

- Paul North.

[jeffhergert]

Up here on UP's two track lines the signals facing away also usuall show red in the situation discussed.  One that dosen't, goes yellow, also governs the approach  to a control point.

The non-controlled absolute leaving signals are approach lit, but on the track they are located, not the main track.  Where KP is they may light up when the derail is off, but all the ones that I can think of don't light up until you get within the track circuit, no matter how the switch or derail is lined.  The length of which varies, some places you have to get really close, others not so much.  Look for insulated joints, or at least bonded joints somewhere before the leaving signal. 

Jeff  

[desertdog]

K. P. Harrier

desertdog (6-15a):

Hmmm.

OK, John, was the train that was on Main 1 at Porter Rd. in Maricopa, AZ a westbound or an eastbound?  And, from what location did you see the green signal at Porter Rd.?

K.P.

 

 

K.P., Paul,

The train was westbound, heading away from the signal in question.  I was standing next to the new set out track at Porter Rd., about across from Wal-Mart.

John Timm

[K. P. Harrier]

desertdog (6-17b):

Thanks for the clarification, John.

Because of your last posted and clear description - a signal displaying an aspect contrary to UP's traditional current of traffic policy on Main 1 at Porter Rd. in Maricopa, AZ -- it sound like the signal system is in a temporary, jerry-rigged settling awaiting the completion of the two-tracking east of CP SP906 BON.

Signal systems generally have various settings, including both direction of travel (always a red in one direct) and without a direction of travel (can be clear in either direction).  I've seen both types over the years, but little of the latter in the southwest.

A year or two ago, John, I posted about a change to a none-directional arrangement between CP SP598 RIMLON and CP SPSP605 MYOMA near Indio, CA.  The non-directional signals remained on constantly and no longer were approach lit.

After a few months of that, the situation reverted back to the traditional arrangement.  I theorized UP had been waiting for parts.  Whether that was the case or not is unknown.

Anyway, John, the temporary, jerry-rigged idea is my best offering.  I guess we'll have to wait a few months or more to see whether the temporary idea plays out.

Stay cool, if you can.

K.P.

[BNSF6400]

The recently removed searchlight signal 5270-5271 (two single aspects back-to-back on the same mast) that was located on the Alhambra Sub just west of Kaiser Yard and the Etiwanda Avenue overpass that was replaced a couple of weeks ago with modern tri-lights as reappeared just north of Mojave next to the classic signal bridge located there (along with another unidentified mast)...it appears they may be used to temporary replace that classic signal bridge.

[K. P. Harrier]

Hello!

Sorry, guys.  My computer is a mess right now.

[K. P. Harrier]

This series is posted from a non-K.P. owned computer …


Update as of Sunday, June 19, 2011:

Part A (of A-D)

The Milliken Ave. Flyover

Ontario, CA

K.P. offers no explanation for what is being built on the right-of-way south of the mainline and west of Milliken Ave.





A closer look:



An even closer view:



Perhaps someone knowledgeable about construction here at the forum will know what is going on.

Continued in Part B

[K. P. Harrier]

Update as of Sunday, June 19, 2011:

Part B (of A-D)

The Milliken Ave. Flyover

Ontario, CA

For the previous update as of April 15, 2011, the following photo was presented.  Note the normal very near location of the crossing gate in relation to the track.



However, on this visit, the south crossing gates were found to have been moved southward, away from the track.





Continued in Part C

[K. P. Harrier]

Update as of Sunday, June 19, 2011:

Part C (of A-D)

The Milliken Ave. Flyover

Ontario, CA

By comparison:  The current view with the crossing gate and traffic lights both relocated and now side-by-side.
 


A previously posted view:



Continued in Part D

[K. P. Harrier]

Update as of Sunday, June 19, 2011:

Part D (of A-D)

The Colton Signal Dept.

Colton, CA

Earlier this month the following Guasti-South Fontana area number plated intermediate signals were reported as being at Colton.



A week later they were reported as having been moved slightly.  That was based on a very casual passing by.  On Sunday’s visit, what was previously felt were those intermediates were actually at least four old absolutes from the Guasti-South Fontana area.



BNSF6400 just a few days ago reported masts number plated from the M.P. 527 area as now being by the rather well known signal bridge on the east slope of the Tehachapi grade, at M.P. 377, about four miles north of Mojave.

K.P. has known for several weeks (from his grapevine sources) that the signals between CP SP381 SOUTH MOJAVE (M.P. 381.3) and CP SP370 CAMERON (M.P. 370.3) are currently being replaced with color lights, and the present arrangement (Main 1 bi-directional, Main  2 with only northbound ABS) is being converted to full “two-track” status with each track signaled bi-directionally.  Likely, that includes the trackage between Cameron and CP SP361 TEHACHAPI (M.P. 360.6) as well.

The slow speed single crossover CP SP370 CAMERON was rebuilt several years ago to a high-speed, two-crossover length, but only had a single-crossover in it.  Likely, that single-crossover will be upgraded to a full universal crossover location now.  The rebuilt CP SP370 CAMERON has had color light signals since its rebuilding. 

The above non-Sunset Route information is given as a follow-up to BNSF6400’s recent post that some Sunset Route signals from the Guasti-South Fontana area are now on the Tehachapi grade, at M.P. 377.  Old searchlight signals positioned for decades at the same location on the Sunset Route have found an interesting temporary home in a famous area.

Lastly, is a million dollars in $1,000 bills hidden in this lone pole that was brought to the Colton site?



Seriously, it is unknown why this old rotting pole is on site.  Perhaps it has something very new on it that can be recycled …

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

K. P. Harrier

  This series is posted from a non-K.P. owned computer …

Update as of Sunday, June 19, 2011:

Part A (of A-D)

The Milliken Ave. Flyover

Ontario, CA

K.P. offers no explanation for what is being built on the right-of-way south of the mainline and west of Milliken Ave.  [snipped] 

An even closer view:



Perhaps someone knowledgeable about construction here at the forum will know what is going on.

Continued in Part B 

  Most likely - certainly - a pre-cast concrete retaining wall system.  With the benefit of this close-up, it's easy to make out the US Concrete name and logo.   They make a lot of pre-cast things at several plants in California, but I can't find any reference to this product - see: 

http://www.us-concreteprecast.com/perris/ 

http://www.us-concreteprecast.com/perris/railroadStructures.php 

See this photo from the Neel T-WALL Retaining Wall System's webpage - similar to your photo above:

http://www.neelco.com/gallery.php4?a=Railroads&i=TW2209_DSCN0634.jpg 

And this depiction and description of it: http://www.neelco.com/tw.php4?p=rrdsgn&f=descr 

Anyway, the idea is that the contractor fills in all those 'cells' with earth - when placed and compacted around and above the vertical pieces that are running from left to right with the 'keys' or 'tabs' on the top, it serves to hold the vertical wall on the left in place. 

There's an acronym for these that I can't find right now.  If I think of it or find it, I'll get back here with the info.  OK here it is: "MSE" for "Mechanically Stabilized Earth" walls - see:

http://www.solutions.precast.org/precast-concrete-retaining-walls 

Thanks once again for entertaining and informing us with your photos.

- Paul North.       

P.S. -    Your computer didn't happen to have come out of the now-defunct Toyota, did it ?  

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

K. P. Harrier

  Update as of Sunday, June 19, 2011:

Part D (of A-D)

The Colton Signal Dept.

Colton, CA

Lastly, is a million dollars in $1,000 bills hidden in this lone pole that was brought to the Colton site?



Seriously, it is unknown why this old rotting pole is on site.  Perhaps it has something very new on it that can be recycled … 

  Maybe for a museum ?  The metal straps connecting the insulators or terminals are a pretty unusual configuration - someone better versed in this could tell us their precise use and significance.  They would seem to be a good item to complete a display of how one of the C&S pole lines and/ or telegraph lines were built and arranged, and why, etc.

- Paul North.

[MikeF90]

@Paul, thank you for the probably definitive explanation of that new concrete. It's not clear yet whether the new temp MT will run on top of or just on the north side of that. BTW Google Maps street view shows there was a white colored 'candy cane' marker in that area possibly indicating an underground pipeline; don't know if that concrete will interfere with any future maintenance or replacement.

@K.P., that explanation of the powered 'stub switch' at the west end of Montclair yard was enlightening since I didn't remember that runaway was the reason for it. It did get me thinking about future possibilities for LA sub 2MT in that area.

[K. P. Harrier]

What an Expensive Train Watching Spot!

Part I (of I-II)

Very recently, the old target signals on the single-track line between Ontario and Fontana, CA was modernized to color lights, and new CP boxes installed.  Apparently, that was a first step to the line eventually being two-tracked in the future. 

The highlighted location:  The area in the vicinity of the CP AL523 GUASTI (M.P. 523.5).

The east signals of the WEST switch.  The left mast is for the mainline.

The west signal (right) and CP box (left).

The box placard says CP GUASTI 523.80 instead of the contemporary CP AL523 GUASTI.

With that background, now about the expensive train watching spot ...

Continued in Part II

[K. P. Harrier]

What an Expensive Train Watching Spot!

Part II (of I-II)

Part I's photos were shot in the very busy Archibald Ave. area, which road is bisected by Guasti Rd.  Archibald Ave. goes under TWO bridges, the south one the railroad bridge, the north one being a pedestrian bridge.

In the above photo, the railroad is visible on the upper left.

The pedestrian bridge has a strange architectural design.  From the east side looking west:

At a nearly 90 degree turn on each side of the bridge, the walkway lowers to Guasti Rd.  Archibald Ave. is on the left and goes over the I-10 Freeway near the photo background center.

There are NO crosswalks for crossing Archibald Ave., accounting for the need for a pedestrian bridge.  K.P. has never seen anyone walking over the bridge ... So, it must be for railfans!  Thanks, taxpayers.  Seriously, the area is growing business-wise, like hotels, restaurants, etc., and is the key entrance to Ontario International Airport (OIA).  So, from a long range perspective, the pedestrian bridge might make sense.

A Mapper link is provided to get an overview of the area of the pedestrian bridge.  On the lower right, the wide track centered west portion of the Guasti siding is visible.

Pedestrian Bridge

In the aerial view linked above, the railroad bridge seems to have been built in recent times for two-tracks and an access maintenance road.

A Nearby Tidbit

In K.P.'s review of the area with aerials, it was noted that the WEST switch of the North Ontario siding (the next siding west of the Guasti siding), at CP AL520 NORTH ONTARIO, has a slow-speed switch with concrete ties! 

The switch at CP AL520 NORTH ONTARIO

Few sidings have concrete ties for low-speed switches.  The east switch of North Ontario has wood ties.

[MikeF90]

Ahh, so much for 'progress'. I remember when it was Much cheaper to watch trains from the adjacent Brookside winery .

BTW Google Maps managed to catch a signal crew using their trenching machine under the main and Guasti west switch. Very impressive how precise they can be with that device.

 

[ccltrains]

Ah yes.  I remember the Brookside winery.  Many an enjoyable day there sampling their products.  When I lived in that area (35 years ago) all wineries had free tasting.  A recent trip to Napa cost $10-20 per winery.  Times have changed.  Besides that the train watching was great at Brookside.

[Anonymous]

The posts and pictures on the Sunset Route update have been very informative.    

The expanded Panama Canal will be ready for larger ships in the not too distant future.  This means that the big container ships that now call at west coast ports will be able to sail through the canal and dock at ports along the Gulf of Mexico or along the east coast of the United States.  Some of the east coast ports, i.e. Charleston, Philadelphia, are expanding their docking facilities to service the larger ships that they expect to call on their facilities.

If a significant number of container ships bypass the west coast ports as per above, what will it mean for traffic on the Sunset Route?  Has anyone seen whether UP has factored this potential diversion of traffic into its investment in the expansion of the route?

 

[cacole]

The toll charges to pass through the Panama Canal will probably keep a lot of the ships unloading on the West Coast.

[samfp1943]

Sam1

The posts and pictures on the Sunset Route update have been very informative.    

The expanded Panama Canal will be ready for larger ships in the not too distant future.  This means that the big container ships that now call at west coast ports will be able to sail through the canal and dock at ports along the Gulf of Mexico or along the east coast of the United States.  Some of the east coast ports, i.e. Charleston, Philadelphia, are expanding their docking facilities to service the larger ships that they expect to call on their facilities.

If a significant number of container ships bypass the west coast ports as per above, what will it mean for traffic on the Sunset Route?  Has anyone seen whether UP has factored this potential diversion of traffic into its investment in the expansion of the route?

[quote user="Sam1"]

"The posts and pictures on the Sunset Route update have been very informative..."   

The linked site of the Guasti Winery was very interesting and gave some new interest and life to that area.  This Thread has been of interst from the start and the Posters have really added to the appeal of the area and subject.

Thanks to all who contributed to the information i this Thread!                           Looking forward to more of the same!

Sam, Too!

 

 

[K. P. Harrier]

Off Topic ... But, Very Related

Part A (of A-D)

On June 18, 2011 forum contributor BNSF6400 informed us that the signals previously in the Guasti-Kaiser area (M.P. 525-528) were now way over near Mojave, on the eastern slope of the Tehachapi Mountains.

BNSF6400

The recently removed searchlight signal 5270-5271 (two single aspects back-to-back on the same mast) that was located on the Alhambra Sub just west of Kaiser Yard and the Etiwanda Avenue overpass that was replaced a couple of weeks ago with modern tri-lights as reappeared just north of Mojave next to the classic signal bridge located there (along with another unidentified mast)...it appears they may be used to temporary replace that classic signal bridge.

Yesterday, Monday June 27, 2011, K.P. had personal business in the Palmdale area.  Afterward, over 25 miles northward was driven to take photos of the signals BNSF6400 had reported.

PHOTO #1:

Sure enough, there they were!  (North is to the right.)

(Photos shot Monday, June 27, 2011 are photo-numbered herein with RED.) 

PHOTO #2:

Previously, the following photo of signals at the Colton Signal Dept. was posted:

Note that the lower signal placarded 5281 has an old ladder without protective caging nor a platform, unlike 5271's mast.

Continued in Part B

[K. P. Harrier]

Off Topic ... But, Very Related

Part B (of A-D)

PHOTO #3:

Conspicuously missing from Photo #1 was the signal number plate 5258.

PHOTO #4:

That signal was the first intermediate east of CP AL525 GUASTI, the east CP of the Guasti siding, and east of Milliken Ave. (where the photo was shot from)  Of the two masts on the below photo's far left, it is the shorter of the two.

PHOTO #5:

While at this point it cannot be proved, but the left lying down mast without a number plate in Photo #1 may be that mast (Photos #3 and #4).

It does have two red "X" markings on it.

Continued in Part C

[K. P. Harrier]

Off Topic ... But, Very Related

Part C (of A-D)

PHOTO #6:

The right laying down signal in Photo #1 (at M.P. 377) is number plated 5271, which was previously documented in Photo #2 at Colton.  A closer M.P. 377 view is below.

PHOTO #7:

That was the short mast signal that was west of Etiwanda Ave.

Continued in Part D

[K. P. Harrier]

Off Topic ... But, Very Related

Part D (of A-D)

PHOTO #8:

By default, then, the signal number plated 5281 in Photo #2 must have been by Kaiser Yard.  From Etiwanda Ave. looking east, with the mentioned signal just above photo center:

While heads facing each direct on single temporary masts in this area have been on the north side of the single-track main, signal 5281's single-mast was on the south side.  Previously, however, a K.P. diagram incorrectly showed two masts as was utilized years ago.  The below is a corrected diagram. 

The old target locations in recent times:

• 
  
• 
  
•         < >        < >
• 
  
• ________  _________  _________  _________
• 
  
• 
  
•                               < >
• 
  
• 
  

The new color light masts:

• 
  
• 
  
•         < >        < >  
• 
  
• ________  _________  ____________________
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  

 

PHOTO #9:

For those unfamiliar with Tehachapi Pass, another view of M.P. 377 is presented:  The terrain here is mildly slanted.

Reports indicate the semi- "double-track" line will be converted to "two-track" status.  The laying down signals at M.P. 377 is for that effort.  But, in K.P.'s review of the area, NO other work was obvious.

PHOTO #10:

Previously, it was reported that tall, new color light signals were replacing the short ones from West Colton Yard, and over Cajon Pass on the way to Mojave and Tehachapi.  The last one northward is at Baldy Mesa Rd. on the Palmdale Cutoff.

From Baldy Mesa Rd. northbound the new, replacement signals are nonexistent. 

Old target signals are still at South Mojave and Mojave.  So, the effort seems to be moving at a snail's pace.

As stated in the title of this post series, all this Mojave and Tehachapi stuff is totally off topic.  But, mast signals previously in the Guasti area now being by the Tehachapi grade make for a fascinating connection to the Sunset Route.

[cacole]

K.P.,

As always, thanks for your photo essay and explanations/analysis of what's going on.

In photo #8, above, there appear to be large billboards in the distance that are directed only to rail traffic, as there are no major roads visible on either side of the rail line.  Any explanation as to why those billboards are where they are?

On a side note, I visited the Marsh Station Road project site east of Tucson, Arizona on June 21st, and there is still no sign of any activity at all on part of the Union Pacific to prepare for track laying.  As I speculated earier, they may be waiting until the summer Monsoon rains to see if the new roadbed has been properly constructed or if there will be washouts (if the summer rains ever arrive).

[billio]

cacole

....On a side note, I visited the Marsh Station Road project site east of Tucson, Arizona on June 21st, and there is still no sign of any activity at all on part of the Union Pacific to prepare for track laying.  As I speculated earier, they may be waiting until the summer Monsoon rains to see if the new roadbed has been properly constructed or if there will be washouts (if the summer rains ever arrive).

For what it's worth, checked out this project in the Arizona DOT website, which may shed light on the inactivity observed in the laying of tracks in the vicinity of Marsh Station Road.  [If anyone wishes to check for himself, go to ADOT/Highways/Active project Information/Schedules/Program Management Report dated June 10, 2011/Highways/Page 19, Item Number 15209, Cienega Creek -- Marsh Station Phas (New Railroad Tracks).]  Under the report heading labelled "Bid Date," the entry for this project reads ""TBD FY11"  translation: To be Determined in Fiscal Year 11.

What does this bureaucratic jargon mean?  We've all assumed that with the ROW grading completed, UP would simply come in, lay its tracks, cut in the new line segment, and that would be that.  Not so fast:  Apparently, since ADOT is footing the bill, they have to bid this aspect of the project (along and in common with all others) , and complete the bidding process.  Presumably UP -- if it chooses to tender a bid -- could end up bidding against, say, Ames Construction (one of its own contractors for Sunset Route work 100 miles west) or who knows whom else.  At any rate, nobody lays so much as a tie until ADOT gives the work its official blessing (signoff).

That, at least, is why nothing has been done in the track laying here.  Having once served in a roughly analagous position, that's my interpretation from faraway Florida.  Other more knowledgeable or better informed interpretations cordially invited.  Maybe next month's ADOT report will have more up to date info.

 

[K. P. Harrier]

MikeF90 (6-22/24):

Laying a second LA&SL track (if and when they ever do such) through Montclair will alter the Yard for sure.  The present siding doubles as a switching lead, so another switching lead will need to be laid, if they even keep the yard.

As far as that June 20, 2003 runaway out of LA&SL's Montclair Yard and subsequent downhill pileup 28 miles later in the City of Commerce, the NTSB public report is most fascinating, but unfortunately, cannot be linked as the NTSB accident reports website is currently being rebuilt.

That was something that Google managed to satellite photograph the transition to color light signals at the west switch Guasti!

And, oh yes, Mike!  I remember the ONE old grade crossing that is now grade separated at the west end of the Guasti siding.  That west end of the siding was with regular track-centers back then, unlike the widely separated centers as today.  Archibald Ave. was then not a through street.  That was a time when a person could stop and park anywhere.  Now, there are "No Stopping" and "No Parking" signs everywhere!

Truly, we live in a very different world today!

cacole (6-28):

Thanks for the kind comments.

The big advertising signs in Fontana, CA that you inquired about target motorists on I-10.

Photo #8 looked east from Etiwanda Ave.  The Cherry Ave. overpass is in the far background of that Photo #8, reshown below:

The below photo, on the other hand, looks west from that Cherry Ave. overpass, and the freeway is clearly seen on the right of that photo.

In the Kaiser Yard area I-10 (between Etiwanda Ave. and Cherry Ave.) alignment shifts away from the tracks as it heads west.  But, since I-10 happens to be right alongside the tracks east of the Kaiser Yard, the railroad has found an opportunity of bring in extra revenue with advertising signs.

About the Marsh Station Rd. area (east of Tucson, AZ), previous mention was made that the new grading does not align with the old railroad bridge.

To avoid building a new bridge, the reports previously were that the grading would be realigned.  Do you know, cacole, if that realignment has taken place yet?

Take care,

K.P.