Not sure if this has been posted already, but it sounds as though a grade separation may finally come to the Rosecrans/Marquardt intersection in Santa Fe Springs:
http://www.whittierdailynews.com/general-news/20150918/californias-most-dangerous-railroad-crossing-in-santa-fe-springs-is-finally-getting-changed
K-rail. (barriers).
A10
Update as of Saturday, October 3, 2015
A Brief Visit to the San Gabriel Trench
San Gabriel, CA and Nearby
Part II (of I-II)
A wide angle, overview type photo:
A local resident that K.P. talked with said construction hours have greatly expanded, and a rush is on to complete the railroad / Rubio Wash area.
Over to the west, at the far western side of the San Gabriel Trench construction, an eastward telephoto from Chapel Ave. of the current status of things:
The whitish thing just above and right of center is the new Ramona Street overpass over the trench, which trench is still filled with dirt.
This will conclude the brief post series.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Part I (of I-II)
On the above date the Rubio Wash area was revisited. Things have changed a bit. By comparison, note the below PREVIOUSLY posted photo, and the large cross-pipe angling downward.
Saturday, that pipe was no longer present, and the lower pipe (above photo) had I-beam bracing now helping hold it up (below photo, left of center).
Besides the lower cross-bracing, a top cross-bracing seems to have been built too.
Above, note the makeshift flood control horizontal boarding, or are they concrete barricades to keep any water from flowing at the construction site?
K.P. saw clouds where he resides, in the Cajon Pass area, so he checked www.weather.com, typed in San Gabriel, CA, and it said there was a 60% chance of rain tonight. That should thrill the trench’s construction management!
Some flood control cement-work walling has been put in place, but other walling is just in the rebar stage at this point in time.
Continued in Part II
I talked directly to the San Bernardino Flood Control District and asked not only about the West Cucamonga Channel but the Main Cucamonga Channel as well. Their ownership is shown on this link:
http://sbcountydpw.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=1555d49212b44eb3ac8a6e6309d1d8e0
And they have an Easement under the SPTCo/UP Right of Way. I incorrectly thought the District was part of the county but it is not. The county and the watercourse are older than the R-O-W grant to SPTCo but in granting said Right, the District retained an easementunder the railroad for flodd control purposes. Union Pacific will pay for their bridge, the District will not. They have the right to refuse any construction over their channel IF it would impede the District's operation though in the cases of both channels the planned bridges do not impede operation so no denial of permit will be filed.
A10 (edited)
Re the flood-control channel:
That makes sense, K.P. There was probably some creek or small stream there (dry most of the time?) for countless centuries, but that S.P. rail line comfortably pre-dates the Los Angeles County Flood Control District, founded in 1915.
What is Official Can’t be argued with!
SP357E44 (9-24): There seems to be some question about the right-of-way ownership and who has an easement reference this Sunset Route flood control bridging east of CP AL521 NORTH ONTARIO in Ontario, CA, the bridge being east of Grove Ave. and south of Holt Ave.
Reshown photo, all others are new
A government office was visited Friday, September 25, 2015, concerning that flood control channel and the Sunset Route bridging over it, and who owns what was readily made clear.
So, the long east-west, unbroken property belongs to Union Pacific, officially listed as the Southern Pacific Transportation Company (SPTC).
With the south border, the above photo’s bottom light turquoise line, the property line is oddly right down the center of the Sunset Route single-track! Thus, south of the center of the track is another, even longer parcel owned by the same owner, the SPTC.
So, the railroad owns the land on each side (north and south) of the track, which land is unbroken, and continuous, at least the lower parcel is. The additional top parcel east (rightward) of the top one mentioned is owned by the same owner, SPTC.
Besides the parcel diagrams, the governmental office has other documents, one type listing leases. The railroad was listed as the ‘leaser’ (the owner of the property), and the flood control channel as the ‘lessee,’ the entity that uses the railroad’s land by agreement.
Just above, on the lower left, a LIST of entities is given that have registered lease agreements with the railroad, and that flood control owner is listed as one of the lessees, NOT the owner.
So, the statements I made relative to the Sunset Route right-of-way ownership was accurate, with the flood control channel’s owner only leasing the right to go under UP’s track.
Best,
K.P.
Grey "rods" - steel I-beams. You have your flood control easement backward - the county owns the channel and UP (formerly SP) had an easement over it. As long as construction of a crossing does not impact the channel the RR can build over it the same way they did farther west in Montclair (off the end of Oak Glen ave.)
Update as of Saturday, September 19, 2015
Part “H” (of A-H)
The Diversion
Pomona, CA
In a heavily blown up view of the last photo in Part G, piping and movable machines seem to be present (below).
Both above referenced views were taken from Myrtle Ave., a north of the tracks north-south street a couple of blocks west of Hamilton Blvd.
At the unimproved south end of Myrtle Ave., is the WEST box of the never put in service two-box future CP AL514 HAMILTON.
In the above photo, the right top head and left lower head on the signals only have two-light heads. Now that the Ontario to Pomona stretch has been two-tracked, the above mention heads should have three lights instead of two. Why UP is delaying upgrading those two-lights to three-light heads is not clear. It possibly could be because the old CP AL514 HAMILTON with be upgraded to the super large CP AL514 HAMILTON.
Ontario, CA
EAST of CP AL521 NORTH ONTARIO (the present end of two-tracks eastward), is a flood control wash type channel. Reportedly, two-tracking this section will be around the new year (2016). The owner of the flood control channel, with a land easement for going under the Sunset Route, likely said owner has already paid UP for the future bridge, explaining why there are just a limited amount of ties on site.
This will end the current status of this report from San Gabriel to Ontario, CA.
Part “G” (of A-H)
The San Gabriel Trench Western Half
K.P. was wondering what the construction people were going to do about the track lowering into the Alhambra trench. Light grayish possibly square-like vertical rods of some sort have been erected (upper right).
It looks like the present trench construction here is one track’s width. Note the slopping dirt on the lower right.
In theory, then, when the trench first has trains operating through it, the presently used shoofly track can be taken up, the north side dirt dug out, and north walling (and flooring) put in, so that the far western end of the San Gabriel Trench has a two-track width.
We now head east to Pomona.
West of the Hamilton Blvd. grade crossing of the SP and LA&SL tracks, is the site that the UP, ACE, and Kinder-Morgan were embroiled in a controversy. There appears to be some kind of preliminary construction with the erection of orange construction fences in the distance in the below view (lower right quadrant), within CP AL513 POMONA.
Continued in Part H
Part “F” (of A-H)
Looking north alongside Ramona Street, RIGHT of that left side barricaded sidewalk the bridging is now taking on more width in its construction.
Looking westbound, the south walling has sections, some just rebar, and others filled with cement.
Continued in Part G
Part “E” (of A-H)
Looking westbound, the new bridge has much to be finished.
The south walling presently is in the rebar stage.
Looking eastbound, there is a rather huge pile of rebar cylinders.
Continued in Part F
Part “D” (of A-H)
Further west, Ramona Street has an unfenced sidewalk with barricades. An eastward view shows much scattered material.
The new bridge’s sidewalk is in …
… so the temporary sidewalk, while still present is not used. The crossing flashers have been removed.
Continued in Part E
Part “C” (of A-H)
Westward again, the south wall: It too has those square holes cement-filled.
Above, the white and blue building in the background, previously used by the San Gabriel Trench contractor, seemed to have another leaser now, a non-construction outfit. It may be K.P.’s imagination, but it is almost like a different contractor has taken over the trench project. Can anyone here at the forum confirm that, and / or give details?
As it was back in July, the new Mission Rd. bridge is open, but still needs to be finished.
The Mission Rd. sidewalks still are not in yet, and the fenced ‘shoofly sidewalk’ (camera position) is still being used.
A final eastward view:
Continued in Part D
Part “B” (of A-H)
Things have changed on the walling WEST of Del Mar Ave. Two previously shown July 3, 2015 views of the steel cables coming out of the walling by Del Mar Ave.:
Now, however, whatever process is used, the cables have been stretched, cut, and anchored, so that cement now fills the holes.
Looking east again, a more closer-up view of the Del Mar Ave. rebar in the bridging.
Continued in Part C
Part “A” (of A-H)
Previously posted about under the same date was the Rubio Wash situation, and photos from Walnut Grove Ave. San Gabriel Ave. was not stopped at, but it is believed the situation there is similar to Del Mar Ave., which is covered below.
The long shoofly is north of the trench under construction, and Del Mar Ave. is closed. A pedestrian crosswalk area allows pedestrians to get through the area.
Looking east from the Del Mar Ave. pedestrian walkway: Rebar seems pretty much in place, and cement should not be far behind.
Looking west, the scene looks similar to before.
Of special note, the dirt that presently fills the trench is still as it was last visit, and it will probably remain there for some time to come. Likely, when things are well along and bridges finished, a massive dirt removal effort will be made from one end of the trench to the other end. What will be done with all that dirt is not known.
Continued in Part B
Well yes, when somebody's house is hanging over your jobsite and you don't want to pay for another one you work OT and get it shored up.
A Visit to the Rubio Wash Area
Saturday, September 19, 2015
Near San Gabriel, CA
Part IV (of I-IV)
Across the track now, about a half mile to the southeast, looking northward, activity could be seen through the opening, with a giant red-like mold for cement. That white building that goes over the wash is seen too.
In the two photos above, did you see the curved, big piping on the lower right?
All that previous construction south of that white building was for an unrelated construction project:
So, the wash flooding incident was just at the Sunset Route shoofly crossing of the Rubio Wash. Repair seems to be moving super quickly. Maybe they will do in a week or two what was planned to take months. Getting bit by the ‘channel’ dog (rain) may have changed their perspective on time …
This will conclude this series.
------
In two or three days other areas of the San Gabriel Trench construction will be update-posted about.
Part III (of I-IV)
From Walnut Grove Ave. (M.P. 491.67) looking westbound. The shoofly seems unaffected by the flooding.
San Gabriel Blvd. is at the newly constructed bridge about photo center.
Another westward view: The white building (left) is that building that goes over Rubio Wash, on the south side. Those new apartments are seen on the upper left.
Just above, the concrete rubble on the left is from the wash.
Continued in Part IV
Part II (of I-IV)
Since the best view was cordoned off, K.P. went to a few blocks away, to the northwest, at Charlotte Ave. and Frandsen St., where a southeast view could be had.
Giant pipes are now across the top of Rubio Wash.
It has been about two and a half months since K.P. was last in the area, so at this point in time he cannot say if the large piping was put in before or after the rain and flooding of the wash.
Another view:
Continued in Part III
Part I (of I-IV)
On the north side of the Sunset Route’s passing over Rubio Wash in California’s San Gabriel area, Pondosa Road (where the tan house on the left, middle photo, almost tumbled into the wash) is barricaded off.
Above, second photo, the Sunset Route shoofly bridging is visible in the photo center.
That nearby big housing project that has been under construction:
K.P. hasn’t heard anything about that new complex being in danger, but it sure is close to the San Gabriel Trench.
The Rubio Wash Problem
The San Gabriel, CA Area
K.P. on Site! (Nearly)
On Saturday, September 19, 2015, the Rubio Wash / San Gabriel Trench flooding nightmare site was visited, or at least gone around. The site was in a confining, massive beehive-like, concentrated area. Truck after truck after truck after truck was backing down Commercial Ave., an old public road (with industrial type businesses on it) east of San Gabriel Blvd., and just north of the Sunset Route single-track shoofly.
Previously posted July 3, 2015 view:
A September 19 view about 200-300 feet back from the above view, with construction equipment and workers everywhere … and on a Saturday!
Alongside (and right of) the camera position (hence, out of view) was a cement truck waiting its turn. The Sunset Route track (and shoofly bridging) is hidden because of and behind all the equipment on site in the above view.
Being onsite yesterday (Saturday), it was confusing where the problem really was at, as walls and trees appeared to be as previously. Either things were restored real fast, or the trouble site is behind what visually had been seen in the past. There were, however, a couple of large pipes that go over the flood control channel, which looks very jerry-rigged.
In a few days (to prepare them) a selection of the photos taken will be posted so the forum can see for itself what is there. After that, a day or two more, a selection of other San Gabriel Trench construction photos will be posted.
A Memo to BNSF6400 (9-19):
The LA&SL Field siding has had a default (“default”) timetable speed limit of 30 M.P.H., as well as default 30 M.P.H. dual control turnouts leading into that siding. Consistent with the timetable speed, in the past, the east end’s east westbound CTC signal has displayed red over yellow for entering that siding. If it was occupied, the signal would be red over lunar, though I’ve never seen red over lunar there, but I have seen red over yellow several times over the decades. THUS, the siding must be “bonded” rather than unbonded!
(When first installed, it was red over green and red over yellow respectively.)
Additionally, I’m told (and I’ve actually seen it myself) that UP timetables list all the sidings between Yermo and Las Vegas (thus including Field), as well as the remaining single-track sidings on the Sunset Route, with an exclamation mark (“!”), which has reference to NON-restricted speed sidings (15 M.P.H.). If trains have been authorized to move at 30 M.P.H. going into and traveling through the Field siding (as well as others) it must not be a dark siding, but rather a bonded, CTC one.
With the new color light signals being installed to conform to Positive Train Control requirements of the government, those 30 M.P.H. sidings that are beginning to use red over flashing red to enter them may lose that “!“ symbol. On the other hand, since the siding itself can be operated though at 30 M.P.H., the “!” may be retained, for when a train EXITS the siding on a yellow, flashing yellow, or green color. The situation in K.P.’s territory is too new to presently say for sure.
Sometimes odd coincidences bring people together. I once had dealings with this older lady, a neighbor. In our conversations my interest in railroads came up. She said her husband used to work for the UP railroad. Thus, I came to know her husband on a first name basis. He had worked for UP out of Las Vegas, NV. He covered east all the way to Milford, UT, and made relief a Moapa often. Westward, he went all the way to Yermo, with relief often at Kelso. He said CTC was installed Kelso to Cima in 1942. He also mentioned about 10 steam engines were stationed at Kelso back then as helpers on Cima Hill. On his territories he said there were so many trains at the time (during World War II) that many trains went to the law, which was 16 hours on duty back then, and the territories were half the distance of what they are today.
You seemed to know something historically about Cima Hill, so I thought this information about my once neighbor might interest you.
Take care.
K. P. HarrierBNSF6400 (9-7): Oh, yes, the Field siding (on the LA&SL about midway between Yermo, CA and Las Vegas, NV) is a controlled siding, and has been such for years and years. A track occupancy for the siding has always shown up on the dispatcher’s screen (or board in years past), and will continue to do so. The difference with the new signals is that the SIGNAL circuitry is skeleton-like, hence, el cheapo. Since the government is forcing the railroads to spend money, the railroads will cut corners wherever they can. But, the government surely has no idea what it has gotten itself into. I’ll bet my boots, BNSF6400, that in a few years the public outcry will be overwhelming and angry at all the slow moving trains at grade crossings involving sidings. The public will shake their fists at the railroads, and the railroads will say in return that their congressperson is the culprit. Should be captivating to see what a public outcry will result in …
The siding at FIELD has been unbonded since the line got Centralized Traffic Control many decades ago. Unbonded sidings only show occupancy on UP dispatcher screens because the computer system is smart enough to know a train has been lined into the siding, not because of any occupancy information from the signalling system. The original siding system was "El Cheapo" to begin with (unbonded signals were the easy and cheap way to install CTC). Union Pacific, in this particular situation is simply replacing signal "in-kind" with what was already in the field (bonding the siding would require additional expense that isn't really needed). I don't see any sign of UP (or other railroads) going cheaper on there signal installations because they seem to go with the cheapest option in the first place.
Also as far as old "new signals" getting replaced after a few years, they go back to either the manufacturer or a contractor who gives them a complete checkout, repainting and they re-enter the inventory. It is possible "new" signals on the Sunset Route were old, new signals reused from elsewhere after a refurbishment.
Here is a link to PIR website. Their plan is to rebuild the line over to Ocotillo first and build an Intermodal Ramp to load containers from Mexico and probably the Imperial Valley and Yuma as well. Ultimately the line gets rebuilt all the way to the border to service the Maquiladoras. When it's all up and running transfer trains would shuttle containers single stack over the line to Mexico and top containers would be added or removed at Ocotillo before handing the cars over to UP. Sounds like they are getting ready to start construction soon.
http://pacificimperialrailroad.com/
While I'm not seeing the "Y" arrangement KP speaks of, what is happening is the box culvert is an integral unit with the rebar of the floor tied into the walls (permanent walls). The previous construction had an angled ramp that was removed so the floor of the wash could be lowered and the ramp moved further upstream. In the process the walls were also removed as they were in the way of the reconstructed and lowered RR r-o-w. Temporary tied-back walls were installed outside of the channel designed with expected flow amounts through the channel in mind. Said flow of course exceeded expectations this week. The box structure will be rebuilt to the new design with the access ramp on the west side, the insurance bond will either buy-out the homeowner or rebuild the house once the walls are finished on that side (depending on how much damage the structure incurred).
I see further east that another narrow spot over a storm drain was bridged and double-tracked (viewed via updated satelite image) since last mentioned many months ago.
A Few Thoughts on the Rubio Wash Incident
Back on July 3, 2015 this southward view was shot, and subsequently posted. It was taken because of the tree photo-framing on the photo left. Link news photos show that tree being cut down because of the damage from the flooding incident.
In another posted view from that date, but blown up for clarification, the channel seems to be having another route put in (left), so that there will be sort of a “Y” arrangement, likely so the original route can be closed and rebuilt.
The above is posted for the forums evaluation and assessment.
ccltrains (9-17):
I hope this works this time …
Wikipedia shows that old SD&AE now is run under two names, the desert line as the Pacific Imperial Railroad, and the San Diego area trackage as the San Diego and Imperial Valley Railroad.
LINK:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_and_Arizona_Eastern_Railway
I personally, ccltrains, don’t see a future for the line. If it had a future, UP surely would buy it back, and rather quickly too!
Thanks for your delayed post patience,
K. P. HarrierWhy are all these new posters coming from the United Kingdom?Is TRAINS Magazine advertising heavily in England now?
K. P. Harrier… Oh, welcome aboard! It’s great to have you join us.
Thanks :)
K. P. HarrierI think your post’s emphasis is on single light diodes that can show multiple aspects. Because accidents happen, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) here in the United States often investigates them. A single signal light that could display multiple colors is fascinating, but that would add another layer to accident investigations, thus complicating matters and prolonging costly investigations.
Because accidents happen, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) here in the United States often investigates them. A single signal light that could display multiple colors is fascinating, but that would add another layer to accident investigations, thus complicating matters and prolonging costly investigations.
Replies
jeffhergert (9-2):
Your authoritative post was a mouthful, and puts things into perspective for the forum.
jeffhergert ... searchlight type signals aren't compatible (at least legally) for PTC. The requirement is for signals without moving parts. The searchlight types have a colored vane that moves in front of the single bulb to give the desired aspect ...
... searchlight type signals aren't compatible (at least legally) for PTC. The requirement is for signals without moving parts. The searchlight types have a colored vane that moves in front of the single bulb to give the desired aspect ...
Key was that movable signal parts were outlawed (as in the searchlight type that utilizes a movable “colored vane”).
It has well been said that a picture is worth a thousand words. But, I say your post gave us a picture of what the reality is, and that is worth more than a thousand words.
Thanks, Jeff!
SP357E44 (9-2):
On the Perris Valley Line between Riverside and Perris (CA), I didn’t see a post contribution by you on the “Perris Valley Line Updates” thread on what you found out on the PVL. I take it you didn’t find much, like I haven’t found much either of late.
What is left of the CURRENT two-tracking of the Sunset Route (like in the Mohawk, AZ area) seems to have slowed down too. In my last trip to Arizona, in that Mohawk area last month, in the cutover of that area old target signals were left standing, though the heads obviously were turned aside. In the past UP personnel seemed to be in a hurry to take down such old signals. But, now, it is like a skeleton crew will get to them when they can.
Pete-M3 (9-5):
Great hearing from you, Pete, and what you’ve seen in the Houston area!
Addressing your last post …
Yes, there are a number of grade separations in process (and planned) between Los Angeles and Banning.
The in process San Gabriel Trench construction is an eastward extension of the Alhambra Trench.
What has been heard is that the CP AL521 NORTH ONTARIO to CP AL533 SIERRA (Ontario-Fontana, CA) stretch is scheduled to be two-tracked around the first of the year (and will probably last for a year).
The two-tracking between Colfred and a few miles east of the old Mohawk, in Arizona, is nearing, if not already at, completion.
It is unknown if any other two-tracking has started or is in preparation. Sometime in the next couple of months I hope to get back to Arizona and check westward from Estrella (the end of two-tracks from El Paso) and westward into California.
As mentioned recently, UP faces a decision on that Estrella to Yuma stretch, and a few gaps in California, whether they will two-track that whole stretch, or just convert the signals to conform to Positive Train Control legislation. My gut tells me UP will forgo the two-tracking and just re-signal the remaining parts of the Sunset Route, delaying the two-tracking for years.
traisessive1 (9-7):
Up in Canada, how does a dispatcher stop a train if a signal can’t be a stop signal? I don’t think the Sunset Route will ever get that bizarre …
BNSF6400 (9-7):
Oh, yes, the Field siding (on the LA&SL about midway between Yermo, CA and Las Vegas, NV) is a controlled siding, and has been such for years and years. A track occupancy for the siding has always shown up on the dispatcher’s screen (or board in years past), and will continue to do so. The difference with the new signals is that the SIGNAL circuitry is skeleton-like, hence, el cheapo. Since the government is forcing the railroads to spend money, the railroads will cut corners wherever they can.
But, the government surely has no idea what it has gotten itself into. I’ll bet my boots, BNSF6400, that in a few years the public outcry will be overwhelming and angry at all the slow moving trains at grade crossings involving sidings. The public will shake their fists at the railroads, and the railroads will say in return that their congressperson is the culprit. Should be captivating to see what a public outcry will result in …
John Simpkins-Camp (9-11):
That cool photo that looks like a painting looks like a painting because it IS a painting! It took me two hours to hang that huge canvas up across the road …
Just kidding … That cool photo looked cool because the area is a cool place. Twenty-five to thirty years ago I was all stressed out, and in the morning my wife (the same one as today, by the way) suggested I go train watching for the day way out in that area. That I did. When I got home that evening, my wife exclaimed, “What happened? You look so good!” That cool place is good for the soul … and my wife will attest to that too!
SP357E44 (9-16):
I don’t know if my eyes are playing tricks on me or not, but aerials of that Rubio Wash and the Sunset Route area (satellite view shot some time ago) show just a basic THROUGH-wash, but my photo files show a wye type wash arrangement. Next time I’m out that way I’m going to look for another leg to that wash.
blue streak 1 (9-16):
Having in the past visually seen that Rubio Wash at the UP track in person, I was under the impression the canal walling would be relocated so things there could be rearranged, with the falloff south of the track moved to the north side, then the route of the water flow restored. I apparently put too much faith that the highly educated project planners had common sense. They, however, must have flunked or passed over the Southern California rain class in their college days, and the project is now paying the price. They are probably from New York, and truly believe it never rains in Southern California. I’ve lived in Southern California all my life, and it does NOT rain often. But, when it does, look out!
In attempting to reply to YOU with a link, the TRAINS website malfunctioned again and screwed-up my computer!
I’ll try later …
(I wonder if Kalmbach gives out FREE TRAINS Magazine subscriptions as a compensation for screwing up people’s computers.)
BrushKestrel (9-18):
Why are all these new posters coming from the United Kingdom? Is TRAINS Magazine advertising heavily in England now? … Oh, welcome aboard! It’s great to have you join us.
I think your post’s emphasis is on single light diodes that can show multiple aspects.
Here in Southern California, some 25-30 years ago, one of the cities had a traffic light (for autos) that had a right turn arrow light that could display both green and yellow. It was a cool signal to watch, and every time I saw it I thought of railroad target signals. But, eventually it was taken down, and a traditional head replaced it. Such a multi-aspect head never caught on. It must have been a nightmare for colorblind people. And, in America, I question whether such an application among Class 1 railroads would ever result.
The current color light fad is just too simple and trustworthy for the railroads to test something more complicated.
Take care all,
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