Recently posted on TO: actual construction (subgrade work, some ties and rail) is in progress on a 2nd main from the east end of Ontario to the South Fontana siding.
Any word on actual construction around Gila Bend?
It's been a long time since we heard from KP. If he's OK, it would be good if he would "check in".
Pete
PeteM3 --- K. P. Harrier and a red tailed guy!
K. P. Harrrier is fine in Hemet (CA), though I haven’t talked to him in quite a while. I’m his old boss, and he hasn’t been to the office in some time.
In the absence of K.P., I check that other outfit you mentioned regularly for Sunset Route two-tracking posts, but the information that you mentioned has not been seen, so I cannot verify or comment on it. But, around Christmas, non-subscribers were blocked and what you referred to may have been posted thereat then. However, I seldom see anything about the Sunset Route thereat when the site is unblocked.
Of course, that outfit that you mentioned kicked me off their forums because ‘I was not a very nice person.’ BUT, from the word ‘Go’ I was chronically attacked and attacked and attacked. Personally, I think there was much, much more to that … People don’t like losing money, so I anticipate someone somewhere will present that other outfit with a legal challenge, either as a class action or individually. I would testify in court if called upon to do so. Conversely, Kalmbach is a super top notch company with great integrity and doesn’t allow posters to be attached with impunity, and they are to be commended for such!
Anyway, North Ontario to west South Fontana (CA) was personally checked a few months ago and nothing new was present. If indeed that is being two-tracked now, great! That is a glaring gap in the two-tracking. I’ll see if that area can be revisited soon, but weird health issues have been plaguing me.
While I haven’t seen anything reported on it anywhere, the area between west South Fontana and Sierra (west end of West Colton Yard) was two-tracked I think last year, but it has been heard Main 2 is often blocked by a super long ‘Precision Scheduled Railroad’ train in assembly, which in essence makes the new two-tracks single-track!
About Arizona and Gila (pronounced HE-la) Bend, that other outfit reported something out that way some time ago, but nothing further, at least that I know of. Corralling K.P. and both of us visiting Arizona should be proposed to him, but he is pretty upset at Kalmbach’s restrictive actions in the last several years and isn’t surprised one bit so many sadly have left this forum. Somehow he envisions where he used to post at is associated with a red tailed guy with pointed horns and a pitchfork! At least he can joke and laugh about it! I really don’t think he will ever come back and post things again, at least not with photos he was notorious for. Plus, he is retired now, still doesn’t have a computer, and we have enough staff to avoid calling him in in an emergency!
So, PeteM3, it is hoped the above gives you a picture of K.P. and the future! It seems you mentioned some time ago two-tracking in the Houston-Sugarland, TX area. Do you know if anything else on the Sunset Route in Texas is or was two-tracked?
I hope to visit my son in AZ for the month of February.In eary 2020,before covid,i checked out from Tucson to slab city in CA.It was 100% double track El paso to about halfway between gila bend and maricopa.They were working just west of dateland to a few miles west of where interstate 8 goes over the tracks.This was 90% done and i am sure it must be in operation now.There were posts about them working from gila bend east to where double track ends.This is a good grade where heavy eastbound trains would slow down.The section by interste 8 was at least 5 miles,they may have connected two sidings. steve
I love AZ DOT work on interstate 10 in Tucson area and railroad.They lowered interstate 10 ,level with the adjacent UPRR main line.The new interchange road they built to go over I 10 and over UPRR main line eliminating the grade crossing and adding a 4th lane to I10 each way.They were working on one interchange in 2020 but have started other locations since than.IN MA there has been very little new highway construction since 1970,except the BIG DIG in boston. The SE XWAY has the same bridges from 1954,to go 10 miles on this road can take 45 minutes,forget it in snowstorms.
croteaudd, thanks for your reply. Regarding the TO post, the source of my info was posted, IIRC, on 01/21/24 on the Western Railroads forum, so it is not now viewable (off the first page), except for members and I'm not a member. It was actually sort of a post script at the bottom of a fairly long UP-related (IIRC) post with unrelated info. The title of the post was not indicative.
Regarding Texas, I was there recently and the siding that UP installed in the Rosenburg area a few years ago seems to be "it" for the present. I live on the east coast, so I get there only infrequently. BTW, the Rosenburg Railroad Museum is worth a visit if in the area. It's located on the site of the old Tower 17, where the BNSF crosses the Sunset Route. They have some impressive model train layouts in addition to the 1:1 scale activity outside.
Good to hear that K.P. is OK.
PeteM3:
Please refresh my failing memory! Didn’t something happen not too long ago at or by the Brazos River UP bridge in Richmond, Tex., between Sugarland and Rosenburg?
By the way, in Richmond, I had to laugh at the improvisation of the locals just west of the UP Brazos River bridge, on 2nd Street! Railfans generally like being grade crossing stopped by a train, but I guess the Richmond locals REALLY, REALLY don’t!
https://maps.app.goo.gl/QLy8AKvBjHsS1kgu6
Thanks for the info on the Rosenburg Railroad Museum! Sounds like a great place to visit!
STEVEN DERRICK:
Yes, it is all two-tracks from El Paso, TX to the railroad Estrella, AZ, and has progressed NO further west for over a decade and few years now. The expression ‘railroad Estrella’ was used because there is a community of the same name west of Phoenix and east and south of Buckeye on the in-service portion of Phoenix Line. Forum contributor Fred M. Cain may know more on this if he is tuned in, as he is very familiar with the Phoenix area …
Track equipment and gangs seen in the Mohawk area most likely were related to maintenance, as 10-12 miles of that area was two-tracked a number of years ago. BUT see the next paragraph.
As you may have discerned, Steven, another forum has mentioned grading a number of miles west of Gila Bend, AZ. The constant but far between reports west and east of Gila Bend of at least grading most likely will have to be field checked to confirm that.
croteaudd, IIRC, the Brazos flooded during hurricane Harvey in 2017, damaging the bridge. It was repaired,using the original truss spans. Can't recall the exact nature of the damage (probably some bridge piers) or how long the repair took. Fortunately, I wasn't there at the time.
Estrella is a very rugged, large regional area in southwest Arizona, much of which is un-accessible, except to its west side. The ex-Estrella out of service siding and present half of a universal crossovers has apparently been named after that region.
In the community of Goodyear, AZ, west of Phoenix, there is a gated residential section identified as Estrella.
So, the railroad and gated community (a section of a town that is miles away from the railroad), both tapped the ‘Estrella’ name.
In other thoughts, previously, K.P. said that the visible switch motors (plural) for Main 1 at CP ESTRELLA were for the east and west crossovers. He and I both got tricked years ago! Those two visible switch motos are both for the same Main 1 EAST single SWITCH for the east crossover, the easternmost switch motor is for a movable frog!
Two-Tracking in California: Ontario-Fontana!
Wednesday night, February 6, 2024, a report of two-tracking in the Ontario-Fontana, CA area was checked out and found to be true! In the darkness of evening Loop Road (next to Etiwanda Ave. between Ontario and Fontana was traversed and a two-track wide grading was present, with the present Sunset Route single track right in the middle of the grading, necessitating a future lengthy realignment of the present single-track.
Some quick searching on Google streetview seems to comfirm.
The former end of 2MT at Bon View Ave. has had the single switch replaced with a new crossover.
December 2023
How it looked in May 2023
Yes indeed, UP is moving forward with completing the second main track between the east end of Ontario and the west end of the old South Fontana siding. Most of the subgrade is done or underway. Some concrete ties and rail are in place. This will give UP 2MT on the entire combined UP LA Sub and SP Alhambra Sub between East Yard and West Colton. From the current progress I would say it will be another 5 to 6 months before this project is done (based on the speed they did the West Colton to South Fontana 2MT). Nice to see this long overdue project finally being done.
And in Perris, K.P. - The Swami of The Sunset Route - is smiling.
Ontario-Fontana, Calif. Two-Tracking
and New Erected Signals from
Another Realm!
March 23, 2024
This will confirm what StStephen2nd reported for us back on Thursday, March 14, 2024, that Ontario-Fontana is being two-tracked now.
As he reported, CP NORTH ONTARO now had the west crossover installed. From there east, concrete ties have been offloaded all the way to the west switch Guasti, and ties have been positioned in the west wide area of the siding,
From Loop Road in Ontario just west of Etiwanda Ave. (the border between Ontario and Fontana), the in-service single-track is right in the middle of the new grading, indicating the present single-track will have to be pulled to one side or the other.
Kaiser Yard looks to have had new grading north of the present Main.
Cherry Ave. in Fontana is a major north-south street and goes over the east-west I-10 Freeway AND adjacent Sunset Route. NEW signals have been erected, with the tracks to the WEST there is a north long entrance and switching lead to the Kaiser Yard, then Main 1 and Main 2 (north to south). To the EAST there are Mains 1 and 2, AND A SOUTH SIDE track that has NOT yet been laid!
The NEW lineside (east side) and cantilever (west side) track signaling at Cherry Ave. is BEYOND WEIRD and appears to be something out of the Twilight Zone! To the west, the north side lead and yard entrance has a west eastbound TWO LAMP UNIT over a three lamp head, the top head NOT being a single lamp unit like most such. The same with the future eastside westbound mast signal, and NOT just a red over signal.
In phone discussions with K.P., we’ve both concluded that those mystery lamps likely will give a yellow over yellow! Why? UP has a quirky signaling system, so they don’t have to have THREE heads, as in red over yellow over yellow! The yellow over yellow at Cherry Ave. would be for a west eastbound red over yellow at AL531 SOUTH FONTANA!
Now that you’ve been dizzied by signaling thoughts, hopefully this Ontario-Fontana area two-tracking report has been helpful to the forum.
About Cameras (for Photographing the
Sunset Route Two-Tracking)
For those interested, I’ve CHRONICALLY been returning defective cameras, one after another, and now have given up. I will use my trusty Nikon D3300 instead.
Camera in question: Nikon Z7-II. The Pasadena (CA) store clerk admitted the camera was more-or-less an experimental model, with the Z8 and Z9 being flawless instead.
The Z7 is getting such a bad reputation a new model designation likely will have to be concocted! Maybe Z100?
As for lenses, my original Z7-II was purchased from New York, with a 24-200mm zoom and was absolutely horrible. I would strongly advise against such. My next Z7-II’s were from Pasadena, and the lens was a Nikkor 24-120mm “S” series. BEST LENS I’VE EVER USED! Absolutely incredible!
Happy train watching everyone (and if a crew member, hope your next run is safe and uneventful).
Hopefully the double track will keep trains moving and reduce the number of containers being broken into.
Glad to hear K.P. - The Swami of The Sunset Route - is still in the game!
The last hour was spent diagramming the old and new CP AL529 SOUTH FONTANA track arrangement for the forum. Unfortunately, it malfunctioned and would post incorrectly, so it won’t be posted. Sorry, guys! I tried ...
Thanks for trying K.P., I mean croteaudd
You are welcome, Mr. Hogwash … I mean rdamon …
Signaling Quirks
There are signaling quirks that seemingly go against the norm. At the east end of Yermo in the High Desert of Southern California (on the Los Angeles & Salt Lake, and not on the Sunset Route), on the south side, there is a red over signal for a track that turns into Main 2 (south side). UP many years ago put in another double crossover just a few miles to the east. In theory, that track that turns into Main 2 should have red over yellow over yellow, i.e., three heads. But there are just two, for yellow over yellow when the crossover ahead is in reverse. So, there may be something similar in the South Fontana area by Cherry Ave. on the actual Sunset Route.
At Gibbon, Nebraska there is a very bizarre arrangement. At the Chicago-Kansas City junction, all switches are 40 M.P.H. But westbound probably a half mile west, there are seldom used 60 M.P.H. crossovers between Main 3 and 2, and 2 to 1. Back to the junction switch at Gibbon, the westbound red over signal for turning into the Overland Route has a two-lamp top head over the normal three lamp head, likely to display yellow over flashing green. Such arrangements seem to be at junctions, like at Missouri Junction in Iowa, possibly to handle a speedy runaway situation.
So, there may be an odd quirk or quirks at the CP (or CP’s) by Kaiser Yard and Cherry Ave. in the South Fontana area of Southern California on the Sunset Route. But, we need to be patient, as two-tracking there seems to be going very, very slowly, at a snail’s pace.
As for Arizona, Yuma to Estrella (the end of two-tracks from the east), it is unknown IF this forum contributor can get out that way to confirm sketchy but consistent two-tracking reports.
slightly, off....Maybe NOT??? Reading some recent posts, advancing this thgread. I was really nice to hear that out fellow poster: K.P.Harrier is apoparrently, doing well, in his new digs in Hemet, Cal. His contributions have been missed. I did appreciate the update from his 'former' boss croteaudd. Interesting.
My main interest in following all this is the continuing construction of the Southern Transcon (extention) between Mulvane, Ks and the Gardner,ks. Faciliuty...of course the final destination uin Kansas City is at the Argentinr Yard. Apparently,since the last couple of months, there has been very lkittle activity. The project of the bridge(s?) over four mile creek seems to be functioning, the double trackin, east of Rose Hill to the west side of Augusta, gas been quiet,since the construction compoanies have finished the build up of the ROW for the new tracks. I guyess they are allowing that woirk to settle-in? Thewre has been some CWR sections dropped in that area. Also recentlyt, there have been several loaded cars of new switches past here(?). Traffic seems to be off-somewhat, with large gaps in thre flow east and west(?). The number of long trains ( with multiple mid train power, seem to have increased(?). Not sure where they break them out, going west?
samfp1943 slightly, off....Maybe NOT??? Reading some recent posts, advancing this thgread. I was really nice to hear that out fellow poster: K.P.Harrier is apoparrently, doing well, in his new digs in Hemet, Cal. His contributions have been missed. I did appreciate the update from his 'former' boss croteaudd. Interesting. My main interest in following all this is the continuing construction of the Southern Transcon (extention) between Mulvane, Ks and the Gardner,ks. Faciliuty...of course the final destination uin Kansas City is at the Argentinr Yard. Apparently,since the last couple of months, there has been very lkittle activity. The project of the bridge(s?) over four mile creek seems to be functioning, the double trackin, east of Rose Hill to the west side of Augusta, gas been quiet,since the construction compoanies have finished the build up of the ROW for the new tracks. I guyess they are allowing that woirk to settle-in? Thewre has been some CWR sections dropped in that area. Also recentlyt, there have been several loaded cars of new switches past here(?). Traffic seems to be off-somewhat, with large gaps in thre flow east and west(?). The number of long trains ( with multiple mid train power, seem to have increased(?). Not sure where they break them out, going west?
Did you mean to put the second paragraph in the BNSF Transcons thread?
https://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/256103.aspx?page=16#3467654
To Midland Mike: You're right!! My FAULT!
[ Living here in Mulvane, Ks. (BNSF Main#3 of the Eldorado Sub - abour MP 126/127.... Trafffic is pretty much So. Trans-conish :-) .... It is either flowing west towards the Left Coast. or eastbnd to Gardner, Ks, and then to K,C. Mo. (ARGENTINE YD)..] Volume was somewhere in the 40-50 trains a day when it was 'normal'.....
Samfp1943,
I know that BNSF has been phasing in the "double train" strategy - a version of PSR - between Barstow and KC and or Galesburg.
Do you think that is dropping the train count (fewer but longer) or do you feel it is off besides even the "double train" strategy?
i know BNSF is steadily working on the second bridge at Sibley, MO. Plans are in at the Army Corp of Engineers for review.
I have not been able to ascertain if they are working on the bridge at Alva, OK yet, which would be the only remaining single track section after the 2MT through the Flint Hills and the second Sibley Bridge are completed.
kgbw49 Samfp1943, I know that BNSF has been phasing in the "double train" strategy - a version of PSR - between Barstow and KC and or Galesburg. Do you think that is dropping the train count (fewer but longer) or do you feel it is off besides even the "double train" strategy? i know BNSF is steadily working on the second bridge at Sibley, MO. Plans are in at the Army Corp of Engineers for review. I have not been able to ascertain if they are working on the bridge at Alva, OK yet, which would be the only remaining single track section after the 2MT through the Flint Hills and the second Sibley Bridge are completed.
I really have no observatonal information on the area at Sibey, MO. My experiencesa are based onrthe traffic by my home. Theoccassional trip over to Augusta,Ks and an occassional trip up to KC area. Since the previous published notices of volumn decreases, noted in the Forums a couple of monthls back.
Volumn is down quite a bit through here. There appears to be heavy 'fleeting' of current levels of traffic, in both directiuons. THere appears to be a large effort of 'doubling' of trains, primarily west bound. Signiificantly, mid-train helpers can apper at times, to be in numbers of 2 to 3 or even up to five units.(?) Occasional, power moves can have up to as many as eleven units, on head-end. I have even seen grain shuttles(to Enid,Ok.) Not very often, but itv seems tok happen(?) The empty animal feed supplement trains, doubled, seem to run North through Derby, to Wichita and return(?)
For what it's worth, this Yuma resident hasn't seen any notable sign of double-track progress anywhere between Estrella and Yuma on my occasional trips between Yuma and Phoenix in the past year and a half. Only occasional crews out changing ties and doing other mundane maintenance work. Meanwhile the issues with long consists regularly blocking crossings on the east side of Yuma for a half hour or more continues.
Perhaps the only noteworthy thing to pass along is plans working through Yuma County approvals for an intermodal facility east of Wellton, just past where the Wellton Branch splits off the mainline, and essentially nestled in the crotch between the two between the split and the feedlot.
GreenLED and Invisible Ballast!
At another forum a year or two ago it was reported that two-track grading had taken place between Piedra and Theba west of Gila Bend, AZ. Both K.P. and I were skeptical of such a report and did NOT pursue an investigation, i.e., did not travel to Arizona from California. Now, you, GreenLED, reported NOTHING has taken place out that way! Surely you would have seen grading and ballast if there was such. Our leeriness appears justified.
In your second paragraph, you mentioned an intermodal facility in search of land EAST of Wellton. That tells this forumist intermodal traffic will come from the EAST, and NOT from the west as many at the forum had hoped.
Thanks, GreenLED, for the report! You undoubtedly saved some much travel money on a wild goose chase, and helped others see where not to waste their money!
What a Shame!
Over a half of a decade ago it used to be at the TRAINS forums everyone passing the Sunset Route tracks in Arizona and Southern California was on the lookout for new two-tracking to report! Today, the few that are left here have to be on guard about false reports! What a shame, indeed!
The only known Sunset Route present two-tracking that I’ve personally seen and witnessed firsthand is in the Ontario-Fontana (CA) area, and that seems to be moving at a snail’s pace! When that gap is closed, there won’t be much hoopla to rave about, as Main 2 by West Colton Yard is often used to assemble long, long Precision Scheduled Railroad trains!
Whether the report of surveyors roaming the Arizona Sunset Route scene a year or two ago was true or not, one gets the distinct sense something behind the scenes is brewing! And it may be ugly and not wondrous! Reports are ever mounting about the electorate’s disdain for Precision Scheduled Railroading. UP’s Vena could very well be the last PSR CEO for UP! The Sunset Route two-tracking could very well be finished by the Government desirous of sanity in railroading!
Enlightening and stunning TRAINS two newswire paragraphs
The newswire paragraphs (September 19, 2024, ‘Outlines’) suggest that two-tracking will begin early next year both in Arizona and Texas, with California conspicuously absent!
It was surprising two-tracking will take place in Texas, likely between El Paso and Sierra Blanca.
As an educated guess it is likely Yuma-Blaisdell (East Yard-Fortuna) will be two-tracked first, then working west from Estrella (where two-tracks from the El Paso ends). As a reference, it is 3.2 miles east from the Colorado River to CP SP736 PACIFIC, the new crew change building just east of Pacific Ave. It has to be wondered if Vena will be inspired to replace the OLD Colorado River bridge with a two-track new one.
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