A Catchall Post ...
Billio (8-17/20):
Thank for you kind thoughts about that ‘mood' photo shot you liked. It was taken from the Highway 71 overpass, a semi-freeway bridge where zillions of cars normally zoom by. But, I had deliberately gone to the scene on an early Sunday morning when there was no- to little traffic. And, the overpass was found to have a sidewalk, so I was relatively comfortable being there.
No, there is no awareness on my part of any two-tracking scheduled outside of the Pomona area. Everything seems to be in a state of ‘do nothing while the economy is bad.' One would think UP would take advantage of this economic slowdown to get plenty of two-tracking accomplished with less interference by trains, but that is obviously not the case. BNSF is going gun-ho with two-tracking Abo Canyon in New Mexico for just such a reason.
Dinningcar (8-20):
Your request was being pondered when it was noted that MikeF90 had posted such information to help us forumites! His approach was excellent, and I hope it satisfies your desire. It used a source that is not frequented much by me, so it took awhile to figure it out. But, once it was mastered, it was fantastic!
MikeF90 (8-16/18):
Thanks for the mapping you posted in response to dinningcar's post. (See above.)
Much of my reasoning about the Pomona area is based on what was personally observed and photographed therein. That reasoning may or may not be correct. But, check out "For What It Is Worth" below.
Your thoughts about the Hamilton Blvd. to the North Montclair siding makes sense. Time will tell what actually takes place there. Interestingly, from reviewing aerials of that area, virtually all the street underpasses have wide, total bridging BETWEEN the SP and LA&SL sides!
For What It Is Worth
As previously noted somewhere back in this thread, a not-in-service yet EAST end signal bridge for the future [CP] AL514 HAMILTON is standing in downtown Pomona, CA. At the WEST end of that future CP, in the absence of a signal bridge, FOUR future mast signals would be needed. Also, in the speculative "Solving the Pomona Mystery May Be Directly Connected to the Chino Industrial Lead (Chino Branch)!" info posted Tuesday, August 18, mention was made of a possible extension of [CP] WO TOWER farther west to hook up with the "mystery track." Doing so would require two additional signal masts, for a combined total of SIX new masts.
Interestingly, at the signal facility south of downtown Colton, some twenty-five to thirty miles to the east, in addition to the two new control boxes present there with "CP SP514 HAMILTON" on them, SIX burial signal stands just happen to be present also, as well as various heads, poles, and other signal paraphernalia. It is unknown if such is new or used, nor if they are the ones to be used in Pomona
Cable
Also at the Colton signal facility, is tons and tons and tons of new electrical cable, presumably for new signal installations for the Sunset Route two-tracking project
Presumably, too, UP had gotten a good deal in buying such cable in bulk. The below photo was flipped upside down, so the 2007 cable date is easily read
The Odds and Ends Department
Also at the Colton signal facility are two old track movement authorization indicators and stands lying on the ground. They previously were at West Colton Yard, and date from 1973 when the yard was opened. In two-tracking the Sunset Route and upgrading West Colton Yard and planning for Red Rock Yard in Arizona, apparently UP has no need for such SP era large equipment. But, don't they have a sinister Star Wars AT-AT Walker like look, as for marching over to and laser zapping railfans that have cameras?
So, if you ever see them standing upright again and moving around by themselves ... run!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
diningcarI have both Google and Map Quest but would like an overall diagram or schematic which eliminates all of the City streets. Just a diagram of the two RR's (actually three with BNSF) to show where the double, or triple, track will be, and any new connections or substantial line overs.
I have both Google and Map Quest but would like an overall diagram or schematic which eliminates all of the City streets. Just a diagram of the two RR's (actually three with BNSF) to show where the double, or triple, track will be, and any new connections or substantial line overs.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
HarveyK400aking a diagram would be nice; but save the guy some time and just go to Google Maps - Aerials and you can get the picture. Some areas have low-level street views which can be awesome.
HarveyK400i
If I am asking too much then just say so as it was not my intent to overload K. P. who has already contributed so much detail, both on the Sunset and at Cajon.
I've been using Bing's new map features called, "Bird's Eye".
http://www.bing.com/maps/?FORM=Z9LH12
Its a nice alternative to Google Earth, however its not available everywhere.
Mike A.
Making a diagram would be nice; but save the guy some time and just go to Google Maps - Aerials and you can get the picture. Some areas have low-level street views which can be awesome.
diningcar K.P. or others, Could you create a map (schematic if you choose) which would provide those of us who have limited knowledge the potential to visualize everything that is planned from the LA & SL deviation eastward to both Riverside Jct. and to the Colton crossing with BNSF.
K.P. or others,
Could you create a map (schematic if you choose) which would provide those of us who have limited knowledge the potential to visualize everything that is planned from the LA & SL deviation eastward to both Riverside Jct. and to the Colton crossing with BNSF.
Perhaps small blowups at Riverside and Colton if in your judgement they would help explain.
Those of us who have not been there for a while or maybe never would appreciate that additional info.
K. P. Harrier Two-Tracking What Is Already Two Tracks! The purpose in this post is twofold: (1) Awareness that some Sunset Route trains often divert away from the Sunset Route. That happens between Colton, CA and Pomona. Southern California locals are undoubtedly aware of that, but those from outside the area may be unaware that such occurs. It is understood that the "Corridor Manager" decides which trains will go which way under any particular condition. (2) Awareness also that when the construction of the second main begins on the less than 20-mile section of Sunset Route between the west side of West Colton Yard and Pomona, that construction will be a very different logistical beast than anywhere else on the Sunset Route. UP will be able to completely close that section of the Sunset Route for hours and hours and hours, even for days if it had to. And the trains would still be able to get to destination via the LA&SL! That line could easily support 80 movements a day! Sunset Route two-tracking logistics planners will never have had it so good! ...From Pomona west to Los Angeles, BOTH the two-tracked LA&SL and single-track SP line are now considered the Sunset Route, though on separate right-of-ways.
Two-Tracking What Is Already Two Tracks!
The purpose in this post is twofold:
(1) Awareness that some Sunset Route trains often divert away from the Sunset Route. That happens between Colton, CA and Pomona. Southern California locals are undoubtedly aware of that, but those from outside the area may be unaware that such occurs.
It is understood that the "Corridor Manager" decides which trains will go which way under any particular condition.
(2) Awareness also that when the construction of the second main begins on the less than 20-mile section of Sunset Route between the west side of West Colton Yard and Pomona, that construction will be a very different logistical beast than anywhere else on the Sunset Route. UP will be able to completely close that section of the Sunset Route for hours and hours and hours, even for days if it had to. And the trains would still be able to get to destination via the LA&SL! That line could easily support 80 movements a day! Sunset Route two-tracking logistics planners will never have had it so good!
K.P., as a resident Southern Californian, are you aware of any additional Sunset Route double- or even triple-tracking scheduled for Sunset Route -- either LA&SL or ex-SP Sunset -- this year?
Thanks in advance.
A brief overview of that LA&SL ‘round about way' is herewith given on an east to west basis ...
At [CP] MT. VERNON in Colton some Sunset Route trains take the below transition track ...
... And make a 90 degree turn and heads almost directly south to junction in with the BNSF "Transcon" in less than a mile away from the camera position, down at BNSF's double-crossovers ironically called [CP] WEST COLTON.
At BNSF's [CP] WEST RIVERSIDE, UP trains from the BNSF branch off onto LA&SL rails (the below photo curved right track) and goes over the 91 Freeway. The photo looks westbound at the beginning of the LA&SL section highlighted herein. The far right track continues rightward and dead ends at the Metrolink Riverside commuter station stop.
At Pochappa, just west of the above, the LA&SL line goes through a partially solid rock cut
Then, about a three-mile two-track section exists. When one thinks of the two-track mains up by West Colton Yard, combined with two-tracks on the LA&SL line, Sunset Route trains really have a FOUR -track routing possibility!
After that section, the line become single-track again, and goes over a spectacular, multi-arched filled concrete edifice, an increasing difficult to photograph bridge. It is unknown what the bridge is officially called, but from childhood this poster has always referred to the bridge simply as "The Viaduct."
In the community of Pedley, a couple of miles to the west, the line becomes two-tracks again for about eleven and a half miles. In this view, the tracks pass Metrolink's East Ontario station stop near Ontario Airport.
The line from [CP] BON VIEW west is single-track to Pomona, where trains can currently rejoin the official Sunset Route at [CP] WO TOWER (shown below, and previously in other posts), or continue westward.
From Pomona west to Los Angeles, BOTH the two-tracked LA&SL and single-track SP line are now considered the Sunset Route, though on separate right-of-ways.
K. P. Harrier While it seems that someone previously alluded to it without specifics, this forum contributor’s opinion now is that the Metrolink center north platform will be torn out, and the mystery track will be laid in its place.
Heading east afterward, that new track undoubtedly would turn southward slightly, and junction into the present single-track LA&SL main somewhere BEFORE the next highway underpass.
Solving the Pomona Mystery May Be Directly Connected to the Chino Industrial Lead (Chino Branch)!
While it seems that someone previously alluded to it without specifics, this forum contributor’s opinion now is that the Metrolink center north platform will be torn out, and the mystery track will be laid in its place.
The future, new CP AL514 HAMILTON (named for Hamilton Ave. several blocks to the west) will probably be the only eventual new CP. You will recall the control boxes for such are presently resting some twenty-five to thirty miles away at a signal maintenance facility in Colton, to the east.
The present CP AL515 RESEVOIR (on the SP side) likely will eventually go bye-bye, but likely not until the gap in two-tracking between Pomona and Fontana is filled. There is presently a transition track from CP AL515 RESEVOIR to the LA&SL side, connecting at CP C033 WO TOWER, which CP is shown below. It should be noted that, because of the telephoto effect, the parallel grade crossing in the distance toward the right looks closer than it actually is
WO TOWER is a somewhat unusually control point in that it extends several blocks toward the east to a connection with the Chino Industrial Lead, known previously as the Chino Branch.
Without the connection to CP AL515 RESEVOIR, will CP WO TOWER then be shortened in length, to cover just the junction area? In my opinion, no; but likely the opposite will occur. The CP could then be extended even farther west, to where the mystery track will end and turn into the single-track LA&SL main to head east.
All this is just my unofficial opinion. But, does anyone else have a better or different idea about the mystery track?
K. P. Harrier Photo Edited to Make Super Telephotos The below four photos were taken August 15, 2008: INDIO, CA. to WEST GARNET: Looking westward from the Monroe Street overpass in Indio ... The new bridge over the river/wash is clearly seen. The track alignment relative to that bridge will look better after ballasting and final aligning takes place. The new track on the foreground LEFT (south side) stops in the far background. The new track resumes in the out of view far background RIGHT (north) behind the bushy tree right center. Just this side of the far background overpass, the tracks will alignment shift West of Washington Street is a new, not-in-service yet double-crossover control point CP GARNET is fully operational now. From left to right: Tracks are 1 and 2, and the Garnet siding CP WEST GARNET: The old signal bridge that spanned the three tracks was removed, and this cantilevered signal structure was erected in its place
Photo Edited to Make Super Telephotos
The below four photos were taken August 15, 2008:
INDIO, CA. to WEST GARNET:
Looking westward from the Monroe Street overpass in Indio ... The new bridge over the river/wash is clearly seen. The track alignment relative to that bridge will look better after ballasting and final aligning takes place. The new track on the foreground LEFT (south side) stops in the far background. The new track resumes in the out of view far background RIGHT (north) behind the bushy tree right center. Just this side of the far background overpass, the tracks will alignment shift
West of Washington Street is a new, not-in-service yet double-crossover control point
CP GARNET is fully operational now. From left to right: Tracks are 1 and 2, and the Garnet siding
CP WEST GARNET: The old signal bridge that spanned the three tracks was removed, and this cantilevered signal structure was erected in its place
What I hope they fix side of the tracks.
K. P. Harrier The below previously shown eastward dawn photo shows [CP] ROSELAWN in the distance from the Highway 71 overpass, taken a few months ago. As stated previously, the CP probably is on borrowed time, as it would not fall within the limits suggested one paragraph above. The rightmost, not-in-service yet, new track appears to go past [CP] ROSELAWN and curve around to the right in the distance. Take care, K.P.
Take care,
K.P.
K.P., I was going through the whole 24 pages of this thread, reviewing the progress on the Sunset Route, and my eye suddenly fell on this picture, posted two pages previously. I think it is a thing of beauty. It simultaneously recalls photographic work by Alfred Stieglitz (artist Georgia O'Keeffe's husband) of Central Park at dusk and the railroad-rich industrial artistry of American modernist painter Charles Sheeler (1930s and '40's, I think) and Russian-born lithographer louis Lozowick, with elements of cubism in it. Holy smokes, look at the colors and the lighting. A breathtaking composition.
I know this comment may be a tad off topic, and suspect that you weren't consciously trying to produce a work of art when you snapped the photo, but I sure like it. Enter it in an art exposition. Submit it to Trains Magazine -- I'm sure they'd be delighted to accept it in their railroad art issue (and if they don't, their art directors should be hit over the head with a hammer). I'm not kidding! And thanks for posting.
A Solution to the Theorized ‘Locking-Horns' Colton Crossing Dilemma!
This poster previously noted that there is a controversy between BNSF and UP concerning the badly needed Colton Crossing grade separation. It was theorized that because of previous agreements, BNSF probably wanted to pay a third of both railroads' share toward the project, whereas UP might insist on contributing, NOT two-thirds, but only a half, since only two railroads were now involved. Interestingly, the TRAINS Newswire of November 12, 2008 associated some type of disagreement with "cost-sharing."
We had cursorily, and for simplicity's sake, previously understood that there would be a combined $50 million contribution between the two railroads. A thirds premise would mean a $16.3 million contribution by BNSF and $32.7 million by UP. A halves premise would mean $25 million apiece. There is a nearly $9 million difference. BNSF would logically reason: Why should we have to pay $9 million more just because the two OTHER railroads (UP and SP) decided to merge?
So, how could both railroads come to an equitable agreement where everyone is happy? This forumist believes BNSF foresaw how that could be accomplished several years ago, and the evidence, in my opinion, is right in Cajon Pass, just a half hour's drive from the Colton Crossing!
More on the above photo will be discussed toward the end of this post.
Currently, there is some competition between the two railroads on the so called I-5 Corridor between Southern California and Northern California, and also points north through Oregon and the State of Washington. BNSF is handicapped on the southern end of such by a more circuitous route. Southward between Mojave (by Tehachapi Pass) and Cajon Pass, BNSF must first go east to Barstow, then south to Cajon Pass. That roundabout way is about 40 miles longer than the UP.
In the second photo just above, the BNSF ‘long way around' transition track between the Northern and Southern California routes is the leftmost track that curves around. The east-west Transcon is the two-tracks on the right. All tracks are at the western edge of BNSF's Barstow Classification Yard.
By BNSF going ahead and paying half instead of only a third, UP would be pacified and save face. But, as part of the deal, BNSF could gain eternal FREE trackage rights on UP's more direct route between Mojave and Cajon Pass, which includes part of the Palmdale Cutoff. It is unknown what a mile of trackage rights is worth to the railroads, so more or less of such an agreement may be necessary. But, that is the general gist of the theorized solution concept.
The first photo above was featured last year in the thread "Cajon Pass Triple-Tracking Updates (Plus Barstow-Daggett)."* It was conjectured back then that UP might someday build a transition track between the Palmdale Cutoff and the BNSF mains. Back then, too, things were kind of up in the air and mysterious without any real logic for UP building such a track, except unneeded greater flexibility. But, the above theory sounds the most logical, and makes last year's odd BNSF installation of a three-track "used" signal bridge on a "new" two-track portion make perfect sense.
Anybody else have a better idea on how to solve the Colton Crossing controversy?
Coming Tuesday morning, August 18: Solving the Pomona Mystery May Be Directly Connected to the Chino Industrial Lead (Chino Branch)!
________
* The following link is to the above mentioned "Cajon Pass Triple-Tracking Updates (Plus Barstow-Daggett)" topic, if anyone wants the reference ...
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/102777.aspx?PageIndex=8
Scroll down to the 3-21-2008 post, and see the post's second photo and the caption above it, plus the first of "Two notes about the LOWER photo."
Thanks for keeping the updates!!
K.P.'s Bait!
Some recent questions have had possible answers uncovered!
Thus ... Coming Sunday morning, August 16: One Solution to the Theorized ‘Locked-Horns' Colton Crossing Dilemma! (Figuring it out may be as simple as traveling 30-minutes up to Cajon Pass!)
Coming soon: Solving the Pomona Mystery May Be Directly Connected to the Chino Industrial Lead (Chino Branch)!
Coming soon also: Two-Tracking What Is Already Two-Tracks!
MikeF90 (8-12):
[NOTE: The following is a corrected, reposting of this reply.]
Concerning the last photo on my 8-12 post that puzzled you ...
In the telephoto shot immediately above the one you questioned, the grading for the LA&SL second main is on the picture's left. The future left track cannot continue going straight eastward because of the underpass opening and guard railings in the way. So, the track has to swing to the left.
That is where the last photo comes in. It WAS taken on the north (SP) side of the Hamilton Ave. grade crossing, and looks east also. The same underpass guard railings are on the photo far right. So, the future south side track should swing to the north side, and head east on the SP side.
Another option was co-opted by the SP - unlike most locations, the station and its north platform encroach severely on the ROW (look at the fence line to the west). Major OOPS.
Your last picture is puzzling, perhaps you meant to include the view from Main St or Park Ave of the now disconnected set out track. Here's a view of the ROW at Park Ave, looking west. Why it was disconnected is still mysterious :-) . Perhaps part of the new signaling and CP reconfiguration?
Ooh, Spooky! Below the Tracks in Pomona, CA
You may recall these two previously posted photos.
The first showed the Pomona Amtrak station in the top background, the Metrolink center platform and wheelchair ramp, and on the bottom left the main, south side Metrolink stop on the LA&SL
The second showed the overhead walkway bridging and room for a possible additional LA&SL main or Metrolink overnight track
A return to the site was made recently for further investigation ...
Hmmm. What is this? ... Ooh, Spooky! Do I Really Want to Go Below Track Level?
Oh, why not!
So, down I went.
My, my. So this is what is down here!
The east-west roadway above ground by the Metrolink stop is narrow with many parked cars on the side. The many times the roadway has been traversed, I always felt it prudent to watch the road, not sightsee. So, the underpass was missed, believe it or not ...
I quickly thought to myself, "Ah, what does the bridgework down here reveal as to how many new tracks can be laid above?"
The LA&SL right-of-way only has ONE rail bridge. So, a second track CANNOT be laid on the apparent room for it on the LA&SL side (compare to second from top photo).
The SP side has bridging for THREE tracks! (Upper third of photo)
But, as seen in the first photo at the top of this post, that platform and wheelchair ramp blocks and is in the way of a third track!
And, remember, the present bridgework by [CP] RESEVOIR, both on the SP side and the LA&SL side, won't allow for another track, unless expensive bridging was added.
So, at this point, no viable explanation can be found for the mystery track in Pomona that ultimately can't seem to go anywhere.
As a memory refresher: West of the Metrolink station stop both below photos look east from Hamilton Ave. The second LA&SL track will apparently straddle the current LA&SL main, but because of the bridge railings in the way the track in question will swing north over to the SP side, but can't go anywhere only a few blocks further!
You don't suppose that the mystery track might be used in the future for some Star Trek type purpose, do you? "OK, the Pomona locomotives are in position. Beam them over to the Jenks Shop in North Little Rock, Scotty!"
K.P., thank you as always for your recent pictures.
Regarding the Hunts Lane grade crossing in Colton: Here is the project page on the SANBAG website. It appears that Hunts Lane will be bridged over the railroad tracks, and perhaps the utility poles will be undergrounded.
Some Loose Ends ...
Signals
You may recall this photo from the Jackson Street Bridge in Indio, CA back in July. There was some uncertainty of what the lower heads display when lit, and what it meant
I was back in the Lower Desert recently, and shot the below photo at Thousand Palms, several miles west of Indio. The photo shows the SWITCHLESS two-track line between intermediate signals. Both the foreground and background masts have lower signal heads. When the background signals display a yellow over yellow indication, a crossover at [CP] RIMLON is in reverse mode and the signal thereat displays red over green, red over flashing yellow, or red over yellow for a movement from one main to the other. At photo time, both foreground signals displayed flashing yellow over dark. The photo was taken from the Cook St. overpass, looking westbound. The overpass by the next signals in the distance is Monterey Ave. The windmills in the far background are about 14 miles away, and just west of Amtrak's Palm Springs station stop.
The hope was to observe what the foreground lower heads could display, but they were never lit during the over two hours I was there. And again, it was just getting too hot temperature-wise to stay ... Maybe winter would be a better time to attempt such.
Has anyone ever seen what the first of two advance lower heads displays?
Locomatt63 (8-7):
Thanks for your Arizona update. And, welcome back to the Forum!
Billio (7-19):
An additional follow-up to your July thoughts: On the way home from shooting the above second photo, I noticed the same equipment as in July was parked and being worked on in a north setout type track in Cabazon (in the vicinity of M.P. 574). So, apparently, the equipment observed in July was just for routine track maintenance, and not directly related to the two-tracking. In hard economic times it is good to see that Union Pacific is still keeping their good track in good shape!
In the first photo just above, the numerous, never removed foreground support blocks were for the long gone Cabazon water tower during the now seemingly ancient steam era
Coming Wednesday ...
Coming Wednesday morning, August 12: "Ooh, Spooky! Below the Tracks in Pomona, CA." A further investigation of the mystery track has made it more mysterious than ever!
A Short Gap Where Old Target Signals Strangely Remain – Part II
Just west of [CP] LOMA LINDA (shown in Part I) is the Hunts Lane grade crossing. Hunts Lane will be elaborated on shortly
A telephoto looking west FROM the Hunts Lane grade crossing, toward the City of Colton in the distance
The 5740-foot siding is called the “Ice Desk Siding” because years and years ago ice was made and put into Pacific Fruit Express reefers here. The “rock train” is in the track next to the siding in this view
The west end of the siding is at [CP] ICE DECK, and goes around the signal bridge, not under it. Photo looks westward
From the west side of the Santa Ana River: Looking east at [CP] ICE DECK. In the background, notice how the grade steepens for going up San Timoteo Canyon and over Beaumont Hill. The bridge on the lower right is the lowest spot from the east (Beaumont Hill) and from the west (West Colton Yard, which is only a few miles further west). Water traditionally finds the lowest route, and so it has here with the Santa Ana River that heads to the Pacific Ocean (rightward).
[CP] MT. VERNON: Looking eastward. Since this is a relatively new interlocking (for Main 2 only), it has tri-lights. The turnout route is used to transfer trains over to or from the BNSF
Right after going under the Mt. Vernon Ave. overpass, the Sunset Route would go up and over the BNSF about a mile further west, IF a flyover design is finally selected and agreed upon by the railroads. The signals seen in this view are at the west end of [CP] MT. VERNON. The reason this location has never been the site of a double-crossover is because eastbound trains stopped by a red signal here may extend westward and sit on the Colton diamonds, and thus block BNSF trains
From the Rancho Ave, overpass, looking east Note [CP] MT. VERNON by the overpass in the far, top background. That CP is actually within a shift in track alignment. The Colton Crossing itself presently has all target signals, both on the BNSF and UP. In this June 6 heavily cropped telephoto, the foreground [CP] RANCHO was in transition between target and tri-light signals. As implied by the current popular “Colton Flyover” designation, if such is built, from below the camera the tracks would elevate, go over the BNSF, and then lower for a mile eastward so the tracks would go under the Mt. Vernon overpass
West of the diamonds, from [CP] RANCHO new tri-lights now continue westward through West Colton Yard to [CP] SIERRA in Fontana, where thereafter target heads again are in place to Los Angeles, except for a few newer CP’s in the Pomona area. Of course, on the LA&SL side from Pomona west, basically all signals are now newer tri-lights and the line fully two-tracked.
So, why is there about a four and a half mile gap in tri-light signal heads in favor of old target heads, and never replaced old crossovers and turnouts?
This forumist believes two apparently undecided issues are in play here that need resolution:
(1) Whether or not the flyover will be built. The outcome will decide whether [CP] MT. VERNON or [CP] RANCHO will be the primary crossover location east of West Colton Yard. It seems the [CP] MT. VERNON option is the most desirable, because starting stopped trains on a downward grade would mean astronomical fuel savings in the long run. It would also make crossovers at [CP] BYRN MAWR more likely.
(2) Whether or not an overpass or underpass is built at the Hunts Lane grade crossing location. If a grade separation is decided upon, the Ice Deck Siding could be extended in length eastward. If the grade separation is NOT built, then it would seem that the configuration of a new [CP] LOMA LINDA will depend on the outcome of the Colton Flyover issue.
So, once conflicts and questions are resolved about Hunts Lane and the BNSF crossing, the present target signals in the Bryn Mawr to Colton area should quickly give way to tri-lights.
It is true, double tracking is mostly complete on the sunset route from CP Estrella to CP Maricopa. Crews this week (8/1/09 -8/6/09) have been removing all of the old SP culverts/mini bridges over a few washes west of Maricopa, requiring crews to take 50-75ft chunks out of the northside main track, remove the former bridge (due to deteriation/settling?) then crews replace chunks with made up panel track, reballast, and re-taper the ballast. For those that may not know, CP Enid (former passing siding) has been disconnected from the main and moved 2-3miles west and changed into double crossovers with power switch/high speed turnouts. Further west a new CP Mobile was established near 91st ave/SR 238 with MOW sidings on both north and south side of mains. I believe it is only a matter of time when the former passing siding rails at CP Enid will be torn up and removed forever.
A Short Gap Where Old Target Signals Strangely Remain – Part I
First, two photos to get the setting …
[CP] ORDWAY, looking westbound from Alessandro Road in Redlands: Presently, when traveling west, this is the LAST newer high-speed crossovers before West Colton Yard, which is about eleven miles further west. This is by the sometimes beautiful western edge of San Timoteo Canyon, where the Sunset Route goes through orange groves. The absolute signals at this location are tri-lights.
View looks eastward: Presently, the signals are the LAST NEW, tri-light intermediates in our short journey west. This is in the vicinity of Whittier Ave. in the Bryn Mawr section of the City of Loma Linda.
Now that we have the area setting: The target signals …
The present [CP] BRYN MAWR holding signals: The signal bridge and target signals thereon date to circa 1976 when this part of the Sunset Route was two-tracked. Conjecturally, this is a logical place to put in new high-speed double-crossovers (not that the railroad would). Note the distant south helper track visually left of the left track just below the bridge’s framework.
Another view
The current [CP] LOMA LINDA, looking east. The slow speed crossovers are probably on borrowed time. They likely date from the mid-twentieth century. East out of Colton, helpers were often put on here for the eastward western assault of Beaumont Hill. Distributed Power Units on the rear end of trains are so often used today instead
Another view of [CP] LOMA LINDA looking eastwardly: The non-main track angling toward the camera is for the 5740-foot south side Ice Deck Siding. While the City of Loma Linda is in the distance, ironically, [CP] LOMA LINDA is technically within the limits of the City of San Bernardino. Just before the overpass, and left of the mains, is a short spur used in putting on helpers. The south side helper siding (referred to in a photo above) is visually seen between the short mast signal lower head and the [CP] LOMA LINDA control box
This forum contributor believes the target signals and slow speed crossovers have NOT been replaced because of debates over the Colton Flyover and what will finally result. Additionally, there is a grade crossing matter just west of [CP] LOMA LINDA that needs to be resolved. More on these will be in Part II.
Part II will be posted Saturday morning, August 8
....Enjoyed the night photos.....Very nice.
Quentin
New Signal Boxes
These two new control point boxes were observed yesterday in Colton, CA. So, now we know what one new interlocking location in Pomona will be called: [CP] HAMILTON.
Apparently, the new CP will be so extensive and encompassing that TWO location placarded boxes will be needed.
The New CP PEPPER at Night!
As those that have been following this topic’s progress know, [CP] PEPPER at West Colton Yard, CA has been revamped. Main 1 now goes on the north side of and apart from the Balloon, and a realigned Main 2 is still on the south side. The following documents new changes thereat, one of such is not obvious during the daytime …
The most noticeable (even from a distance) are new night floodlights that brilliantly light up the yard’s departure routes. In this view, a train is in preparation for departure, and another train swings into view on Main 1 in the upper left. Note the multidirectional, radical shadowing caused by the new floodlights: Both the shadows of the signal mast on the left, and the overpass itself across the bottom of the photo
The westbound on the left is swiftly moving west toward the camera and to Los Angeles. Note the brilliant switch indicator lights. Green is for straight, yellow is for a switch in reverse
A southeasterly view: The facility in the upper right is not part of the yard, but a private tank railcar repair and maintenance facility
The train in the first photo above then goes off and into the darkness of the Palmdale Cutoff and heads to Bakersfield
Another swift (leftward) train uses Main 1 as the previous Bakersfield bound train continues to roll rightward in the foreground
The last northbound railcar easily and safely negotiates through the new turnouts. The old arrangement saw one too many derailments, so that thereafter trains coming off the Palmdale Cutoff were prohibited from any routing other than using the Main. But all that has change with this new trackage …
The last double-stack car of the westbound spoken of above passes the Departure Yard and is heading to Los Angeles. The west side of Pepper Ave. is likewise brilliantly lit up. One almost has to see it in person to appreciate its nighttime brilliance!
Both mains now sport slab-work for easy yard-vehicle crossings of the tracks. Note, too, the track-centered extra rails designed to halfway realign derailed wheels to help prevent the overpass supports from ever being struck
The Pepper Ave. overpass is not used very much by the motoring public. Nor does it sport fencing to obstruct photography. It is a longtime favorite of railfans, and has a good view of the recent new two-tracking alterations.
(Coming the morning of Friday, August 7: A Short Gap Where Old Target Signals Strangely Remain – Part I)
K. P. Harrier Replacement Diamonds at Colton, CA On July 31, spbed alerted us to new crossings being assembled at Colton Crossing. The following is a visual follow-up to spbed’s report, as viewed from the northeast corner of the diamonds area Both lines are on a grade. As a reference, use the signal mast on the top center. The top tracks are the Sunset Route, with Los Angeles (and West Colton Yard) to the right; El Paso is to the left. On the lower BNSF tracks, Los Angeles is to the left, Chicago is to the right A westbound (physically southward) Saturday Metrolink commuter train, with the cab car leading, passes on the BNSF tracks With new, uninstalled crossings present, this poster has to wonder if it is simply a prudent time for replacement (as with the present old crossings simply wearing out), or if the future Colton Flyover project has been abandoned because of disagreements among the railroads. To refresh your memory, the following previously posted photo from only last year is re-shown. It is of a tie replacement program on the Sunset Route in Pomona, CA at Temple Ave. on the SP side of two parallel UP lines. As mentioned before in this topic, by the end of this year, this track should be abandoned in favor of a rerouting alongside the LA&SL line. So, keeping Colton Crossing track-worthy is not a definitive sign in itself … Coming Wednesday morning, August 5: The New CP PEPPER at Night!
Replacement Diamonds at Colton, CA
On July 31, spbed alerted us to new crossings being assembled at Colton Crossing.
The following is a visual follow-up to spbed’s report, as viewed from the northeast corner of the diamonds area
Both lines are on a grade. As a reference, use the signal mast on the top center. The top tracks are the Sunset Route, with Los Angeles (and West Colton Yard) to the right; El Paso is to the left. On the lower BNSF tracks, Los Angeles is to the left, Chicago is to the right
A westbound (physically southward) Saturday Metrolink commuter train, with the cab car leading, passes on the BNSF tracks
With new, uninstalled crossings present, this poster has to wonder if it is simply a prudent time for replacement (as with the present old crossings simply wearing out), or if the future Colton Flyover project has been abandoned because of disagreements among the railroads.
To refresh your memory, the following previously posted photo from only last year is re-shown. It is of a tie replacement program on the Sunset Route in Pomona, CA at Temple Ave. on the SP side of two parallel UP lines. As mentioned before in this topic, by the end of this year, this track should be abandoned in favor of a rerouting alongside the LA&SL line.
So, keeping Colton Crossing track-worthy is not a definitive sign in itself …
Coming Wednesday morning, August 5: The New CP PEPPER at Night!
Yep those are the pieces we saw. Some of it had been constructed before I reached there but when I was last there on 07/29 they were not working on the project.
We also by the hump track & they are rebuilding the track & adding crossovers on the east side of that track also & there they were working when I was there on 07/26
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
I just returned from a rail fanning tirip to SoCal. I was in Ontario CA & drove as far west as Mountain Ave & between there Vineyard St (Ontario Airport) there was no evidence of any double tracking to be done. There was no grading going on nor did I see any survey stacks showing where the grading should be done. In driving from Ontario to Colton where ever you can see the tracks from I10 I also saw no double tracking taking place
BTW they are rebuilding the double diamond @ Colton. They are erecting it from scratch as there are pieces of the new diamond waiting to be put together on the Valley Blvd side.
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