Replies
blue streak 1 (1-21):
That is an interesting situation in La Grange, GA. Whatever the technicalities there, undoubted the railroads (plural) have become very adept in protecting their interests with grade separations.
diningcar (1-21):
Well said, diningcar!
In that light, I have to wonder if there was any agreement, though, for the 1936-build Barton Road overpass in Colton, CA (near Grand Terrace). That bridge over the BNSF (which rail route the alternate Sunset Route uses also) is in the way of BNSF triple-tracking there, and the situation just lingers and lingers on …
ccltrains (1-21):
Using the Dallas-Fort Worth (TX) policy (if one wants a new grade crossing two others have to be close), BNSF made out like a bandit with the Sunset Route Colton Flyover (CA) agreement, as two grade crossing were closed but NO new ones were added!
mvs (1-27):
That San Gabriel Trench switch appears to be only a construction switch. As far as two-tracking through the San Gabriel Trench, I don’t think UP (“UP”) will ever two-track that section. However, I unofficially believe the western part of the Alhambra Sub will someday be sold to Metrolink (with UP retaining trackage rights) with the money UP receives used to triple-track the Los Angeles Sub (LA&SL) Pomona to Los Angeles.
rdamon (1-31):
That derailment was on one of the two branching off tracks technically not on the Sunset Route but so related to it that inclusion herein is valuable.
MikeF90 (2-1):
The San Gabriel Trench is so short I thought ties for it would be trucked in and a track laying machine would not be used. But, your photos, Mike, clearly show that a track laying machine is now onsite.
In 2008 the second track at West Colton Yard west of Cedar Ave. had ties trucked in, the below view showing a truck backing in just east of Cedar Ave.
mvs (2-1):
The San Gabriel Blvd. Bridge that doesn’t ‘feel’ so ‘complete’ for you, to me has something missing about it that baffles me. All the other project bridges make sense, but the San Gabriel Blvd. one doesn’t.
The permanent fencing there implies a future sky high sidewalk. As time goes on it will probably all make sense, but now it doesn’t, at least to me and apparently you too.
blue streak 1 (2-4):
The article you linked mentioned Hackelberg Road (linked map’s lower right) off of MacDona Lacoste [Road]. There is a bridge just west of there (on the below link’s left).
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hamilton+Wolfe+Rd,+San+Antonio,+TX/@29.3276599,-98.7311639,419m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x865c675a21adc531:0x77eca4aae3d03f96!8m2!3d29.5210565!4d-98.5853134
Presumably, that view’s bridge is the bridge that partially burned. It is a single-track bridge on a line unlikely to need a second-track for decades to come, the lower of THREE lines that fork off the Los Angeles-El Paso section that is being two-tracked, though that two-tracking is presently on hold.
K.P. is of the understanding that between San Antonio EAST to Houston that line is in need of two-tracking because of the proliferation of trackage rights trains on it, which I don’t think is the case WEST of San Antonio. (Can anyone input of that?)
The news clip ironically indicated the bridge was scheduled to be replaced in a couple of months. At this time it is unclear if the bridge will be rebuilt in part or the whole thing will. Accounting-wise, if only partially rebuilt, I don’t know how that is handled as it would be an overlapping accounting situation.
Not too long ago in Colton, CA, off the western part of the Sunset Route, the old wooden Riverside Industrial Lead (RIL) bridge over the Santa Ana Riverbed partially burned, and was repaired quickly with a cheap steel and concrete structure.
That bridge (new and old parts) is now not used because of the rerouting of the RIL because of the Colton Flyover agreement. See below background right track branching off on the right vs. the near that curve background bridge for the track that used to go straight.
Take care all,
K.P.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
San Gabriel Trench update
The track laying is almost complete; the rails and ballasted ties are in place just short of Walnut Grove Ave.
That signal pole is not long for this world. A traffic sign warns that the crossing will be closed for four weeks soon:
At that time it is likely that the new track will be laid through the reconfigured grade crossing and cut in.
UPDATE FROM ACE WEBSITE: "Alameda Corridor-East Construction Authority (ACE) contractor will close the Walnut Grove Avenue railroad crossing to lower the roadway, relocate and rewire railroad signals, install new mainline track and road panels, and perform related paving work."
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
Super Rare Opportunity!
A very, very rare opportunity presented itself very recently to be at and photograph the LA&SL grade crossing just east of the 57 Freeway in Pomona, CA (the below photo’s far side, center, with one of the crossing gate mechanisms thereat seen through the left opening. That photo was shot from the Temple Ave. overpass bridge.)
While at the grade crossing, K.P. saw TWO black and whites! The first a sheriff officer curious as to what was going on. We had a nice, friendly chat. The second was a UP special agent, apparently there for something unrelated to the first officer’s presence, and he went east following the presently trackless Main “D” roadbed like a bat out of you know where in a huge cloud of dust!
Probably sometime next week a posting series for the forum will show that kind of secret grade crossing up close, and the presently trackless Main “D” route thereat too.
Exclusive Diversion Photos
Pomona, CA
Part I (of I-VI)
As shown in the teaser post of Friday, February 17, 2017 at 9:06 P.M. Pacific Time, just EAST of the 57 Freeway is a LA&SL grade crossing that the general public doesn’t have access to. There are flashers and crossing gates there. View looks south.
Ever since the 57 Freeway was built years ago the UP (LA&SL) here was single-track with a siding. Thus two tracks went through the three-tracks wide opening (left). With the advent of the never completed Diversion started about 10 years ago that overpass was modified so that there was a fourth-track opening (right)
A telephoto of that trackless fourth-track’s opening under the 57 Freeway, our “D” Track, with the Temple Ave. overpass in the background, where many Diversion update photos have been taken from over the last decade.
Through the opening of that background Temple Ave. overpass the two four-track signal bridges are seen, of which only the “A” Track’s signals are presently operative (above, left, south side).
Continued in Part II
Exclusive “Diversion” Photos
Part II (of I-VI)
From the south side, a view looking westbound with an eighteen wheeling passing above on the 57 Freeway:
A close-up of that three-track opening (plus the north side single-track opening) and the grade crossing box, the size of that box appears to be the size of a CP box:
As secluded as this gated spot is, graffitists attack the location often, it seems.
A northward view from the south side of the grade crossing:
On the second to last eastbound UP “City of Los Angeles” No. 104 (led by E-8 UP 938) out of Los Angeles K.P. rode through here in the last coach, passing at slow speed on the siding. He saw this grade crossing, then only with bells and flashers on masts, and NO gates. After 45 years, K.P. finely got to that grade crossing! K.P. back then, then stopped in the siding, soon saw the westbound No. 103 zoom by on the Main with E-8 No. 932 on the point.
Continued in Part III
Part III (of I-VI)
Looking eastbound, from the north side, on the presently trackless Main “D” alignment:
Looking south, that nice sheriff’s officer’s car (mentioned in the teaser announcing for this series):
And, that zooming Special Agent’s car (also mentioned in the teaser)!
Look at those dirt road tracks he is leaving as he hotrods it! As he got farther away the dust being kicked up almost hid his vehicle!
Did you notice that that last black and white had NO license plates? The vehicle must be so new the plates hadn’t arrived yet.
Just a tidbit about ‘cops,’ a tidbit that may surprise most here at the forum … That sheriff’s legal authority is limited depending upon where he is at. However, the Special Agent’s legal authority is in force in ANY state the railroad operates in! So, a UP Special Agent could arrest someone in Omaha, NE in the morning, then catch a plane to Los Angeles, CA, and finally in the afternoon arrest a trespasser here in Pomona!
Continued in Part IV
Part IV (of I-VI)
No visit is complete without a train, and UP accommodated that this visit.
That above last unit was No. 2715, not to be confused with the new C45H of that number, but the switcher had the UPY reporting marks!
And, that train was long!
Oh, wow! In a high blow-up of the last photo, it looks like the nice sheriff officer nabbed a trespasser!
Believe it or not, but K.P. even saw a person walking his bike on the 45 degree angled sloping dirt elevating the 57 Freeway. The person had a basket too and was having considerable difficulty with everything he had!
Continued in Part V
Part V (of I-VI)
Public access to the grade crossing is via a normally padlocked gate.
How those police normally get in is a mystery. Maybe they hocus pocus and levitate over the fence …Outside of something exotic like that, K.P. is baffled!
Continued in Part VI
Part VI (of I-VI)
Before K.P. got to that secluded grade crossing, he visited the east side of the Temple Ave. overpass. A westbound soon came on the new “A” Track alignment and went over that secluded grade crossing.
Above, on the third photo down, note that train on the same track coming at the camera! (Also shown in the fourth photo down) It had stopped at CP C026 GRAND (M.P. 26.2). Why the forefront train didn’t have a yellow over green at the forefront signal bridge is unknown, but that train had only a yellow. That stopped train facing the camera is the same one later that was shown in Part IV, the one with the UPY unit.
For one with a micro eye, in that fourth photo is a mast signal barely visible way over at CP C026 GRAND. It is underneath the forefront SECOND signal bridge back, visible right mast thereon top left facing head, and just left of the bottom head. It is a right positioned mast signal.
This will conclude the series.
K.P. Fascinating posts. On Google Maps, I found the crossing and the Spada Cemetery. On the map North of the crossing in the tree canopy is a triangular structure which I presume is the big billboard that shows in your photograph. I also found the following tale about the cemetery. As your visit documents, (note bold sentence) vandals are not detured by the gate nor the law enforcement.
Originally part of the sprawling Rancho San Jose land grant, the area was settled by lower class families escaping poverty and war in the American South. The town of Spadra was officially founded in 1866. According to the blog Avoiding Regret, settlers in the surrounding Pomona Valley referred to Spadra by the horrific name “Monkeytown.”
Despite the insulting prejudice, the village was soon thriving and lively, boasting many “firsts,” including the first school district in east Los Angeles County. By 1870, Spadra had three stores, warehouses, blacksmiths, a school, and a post office. It was an important stage coach stop between Los Angeles and Yuma, Arizona. But the town had its share of drama, which included many mysterious deaths, suicides, and murders, which no doubt helped necessitate a community graveyard to service the town.
In 1873, Spadra pioneer rancher and developer Louis Phillips signed a contract with the Southern Pacific to build a railway line to Spadra. In 1875, Phillips built a grand mansion in the village, which still exists today. But the great town Phillips envisioned was not to be. Shortly after it reached Spadra, the railroad line was extended again. Now it ran all the way to the city of Colton in the Inland Empire. It was no longer prudent to stop in Spadra, and the town soon began to shrink. As it shrunk, the graveyard continued to fill up with residents, including Louis Phillips himself, who was buried there in the year 1900.
Spadra’s other claim to fame was as the site of the Pacific Colony, a California state hospital for the “feeble-minded” established in 1920. Locals unkindly referred to those they considered of diminished capacity as Spads.
Eventually, Spadra was annexed by the neighboring town of Pomona in 1964. Today, industrial buildings stand in the place of the town’s original structures. Other than the Phillips Mansion, the cemetery is all that remains of Spadra. It sits behind a locked gate, down a dirt road and across well-worn train tracks. Many of the graves have had their headstones broken by vandals. Some graves have been cemented over to prevent further vandalism. Even Louis Phillips’ grave has been toppled and vandalized. The cemetery serves as a poignant reminder that “the best laid plans of mice and men/go oft awry.”
Electroliner 1935 (2-19):
Nice find on the Spadra information (Pomona, CA).
The historical group that is now in charge of the cemetery seems very protective of their charge, but vandals have caused considerable damage over the years nevertheless. They also don’t want photography thereat to keep awareness of the spot out of the limelight. The historical group did grant permission to photograph the tracks and trains from THEIR roadway. The group, however, will accommodate professional photography for, I think, a fee of $200. I’ll let the forum surprise what they want on that.
You identified items in the area aerial correctly.
There were probably 15 in the tour that was waiting at the gate off of Pomona Ave. when I arrived. Later, I took a few parting shots. We all had parked nearby and under the 57 Freeway.
I regret not bringing the camera back to the car and then going back and walking through the cemetery itself and looking around. Maybe next time a special tour is arranged.
Memo to Electroliner 1935 continued
Electroliner 1935 (2-19) continued:
I couldn’t help think, in this reply to you, Electroliner 1935, that San Diego, Ca has large cemetery, and the commuter tracks from old go right through it!
In the below aerial of that Mt. Hope Cemetery Area on the right shows the trolley line having a wild routing on the left.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/San+Diego,+CA/@32.7075621,-117.1201558,808m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x80d9530fad921e4b:0xd3a21fdfd15df79!8m2!3d32.715738!4d-117.1610838
That San Diego Trolley Orange Line has industrial switching on it.
Those industries must be switched at night, as very frequent trolley cars certainly wouldn’t mess well with a “local” freight.
Maybe someone at the forum can fill in everything, but K.P. is somewhat confused of the history of that cemetery line, and if it was part of the San Diego & Arizona Eastern and the line through Carrizo Gorge to Plaster City and up to the connection to the Sunset Route at Niland.
Anyway, that was a reply more than you might have expected, Electroliner 1935. The material you posted is somewhat at odds with other material, but that probably should be expected as people try to comprehend how things were two or three centuries ago.
Take care,
K. P. HarrierI couldn’t help think, in this reply to you, Electroliner 1935, that San Diego, Ca has large cemetery, and the commuter tracks from old go right through it!
Well, that's two - although what was probably the first hasn't had rails through it in 30-40 years. That would be in Brownville, NY, (N 44 0' 7" W 75 59' 30")where the rails did, indeed run right through the cemetary.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
K. P. HarrierAnyway, that was a reply more than you might have expected, Electroliner 1935.
You are a master of the understatement sir. But I grew up in Cincinnati and it had Spring Grove Cemetery that had the B&O RR (former C.H.&D) run through the middle of it. After I left Cincy, in '61, the B&O abandoned that track and no longer runs through it.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Spring+Grove+Cemetery/@39.1689157,-84.5297635,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x8841b4a1f5fa9487:0xfdc7e1db79a92d63!8m2!3d39.1743388!4d-84.5250106
If you see the street one block N of Spring Grove Ave that runs on a slight slant and ends at Winton Rd, that is on the former ROW. The B&O also built a new connection from its main line to the East to the Toledo line and installed three highway underpasses (Clifton Ave, Mitchell Ave, and Spring Grove Ave.) Where the Cincinnati - Detroit trains used to make a backup move to get across Spring Grove, Amtrak's Cardinal has an easy route. The Winton Place Station was a favorite place to hang out in the mid 50's as it had 46 trains a day of four railroads use it enroute to & from Cincinnati Union Station. PRR had 7 each way (3-Chicago & 4 Pittsburg) NYC had 6 each way (2- Detroit, & 4- Cleveland), B&O had 7 each way (3- Detroit, !- Pittsburg, & 3-Washington) N&W had 3 each way to Portsmouth. If you follow the existing tracks that are S of Spring Grove Ave to the East to where they cross over Mill Creek you can see a shell of the former NA tower that controlled the Ivorydale interlocking. This was where the NYC (CCC&StL) and the B&O split and where the original connection between the CH&D & B&O was made.
tree68That would be in Brownville, NY, (
Tree68, Looking at Google Maps, I first had to convert the coordinates to decimal (44.001944, -75.991666) and I found the Cemetery, and it looks like the former ROW maybe ran parallel to Highway 126 There is a row of trees with no visible graves and then the Clover Valley Pizza with an open area between it and some graves. Would that be the ROW of the former line to Cape Vincent?
Electroliner 1935Would that be the ROW of the former line to Cape Vincent?
That's NYS Route 12E, and yes, that's the original ROW of the Rome and Watertown (later Rome, Watertown & Ogdensburg, then NYC). You can see the ROW from 12E as far as Chaumont, after which the two took different paths.
The CapeVincent (2nd edition) and Brownville stations still stand. Brownville's is next to the fire station. Cape Vincent's is on the waterfront (N 44 7' 51" W 76 19' 48"). The piers for the swing bridge over the Chaumont River are still there as well.
The ROW now has a regional water line buried under it.
Heading to the Sunset Route?
After an assignment, K.P. checked out the Highway 138 rerouting at Summit in Cajon Pass in Southern California in behalf of the “Cajon Pass Triple-Tracking updates” thread. To his surprise, TWO westbound ballast trains were there, one with Herzog cars, the other with UP M of W cars.
Undoubtedly, those ballast trains are destined to somewhere on or associated with the Sunset Route. Anyone know where?
By the way, as somewhat seen in the above first two photos, Summit in Cajon Pass is presently having radical earthwork take place, involving the highway known as State Route 138. By early April, we all won’t recognize the place. The changes are that radical.
About a week ago, I drove up Walnut Grove Avenue before its temporary closure. (It's closed for a month or so, related to the San Gabriel Trench project.)
It looked like track has been laid, climbing out of the Trench, on the southern side of the right-of-way.
A Number of Places Checked …
K.P. had a free day Friday, March 3, 2017, and used it to check out the San Gabriel Trench (Alhambra, San Gabriel, and Rosemead, CA), the PHIMF status (City of Industry), and the Diversion (Pomona).
The San Gabriel Trench activity at Walnut Grove Ave. is progressing much, much slower than was expected.
The PHIMF area was checked, but nothing seems to be happening there.
K.P. was finally able to get over to the Valley Blvd. and Puente Ave. / Workman Mill Road in the vicinity of the Bassett siding in the Bassett area. He had to hike in a ways to get enlightening photos.
Nothing seemed to be happening in Pomona with the Diversion. However, the SP-LA&SL grade crossing at Hamilton Blvd. was closed bigtime account of a fatality there.
By Ontario International Airport, on Airport Drive, a westbound Herzog train set was seen. At the angle K.P. couldn’t tell if the ballast cars were full or empty.
Memo to mvs (3-3):
I think while you were posting your post I was actually at Walnut Grove Ave. on the east side of the San Gabriel Trench. Things are going much slower than I had envisioned.
Photos were taken at San Gabriel Blvd. and a couple of places on the west end too.
The Cajon Pass photos will be worked on next, and then the Sunset Route photos. Watch for posts on all this.
Concerning Cemeteries …
Some here have brought up various thoughts about cemeteries after the recent cemetery posting about Pomona (CA). It is hoped to reply to those posts in due time, but right now priority is being given developments in Cajon Pass and on the Sunset Route. Hang in there, guys.
Best,
The What’s Happening Roundup Series
Part “A” (of A-N)
Friday, March 3, 2017
The San Gabriel Trench
Alhambra-San Gabriel-Rosemead, CA
As previously announced, the Walnut Grove Ave. grade crossing was indeed closed, and pavement was being tore out where the trench track will be laid in.
The street is closed north of the single-track line.
It is closed for comparable distance on the south (far) side too.
Continued in Part B
Part “B” (of A-N)
The local business on the northwest side of the grade crossing has to deal with the road and sidewalk all tore up.
It has been K.P.’s experience when visiting this area in the past that there were sometimes almost always two or three cars parked in from of this store, sometimes five cars.
It was Day 5 of the road closure, and it appeared that things were going much slower than expected.
Continued in Part C
Part “C” (of A-N)
At San Gabriel Blvd. the sidewalks were initially focused on. It looks like a sidewalk of the standard height would work. With the present mainline (as a shoofly) still in place, it is difficult to visualize curbing and swidewalks.
The track in the trench: On the cement of the trench, a light ballasting is down, but on the dirt no ballast was seen.
That jog is odd. It might just be temporary so vehicles still can be driven in the trench, and the track might be realigned later once the sloping dirt for the shoofly on the left is removed. How the track alignment will be at Walnut Grove Ave. (background) might be an indicator of how things will be.
Continued in Part D
Part “D” (of A-N)
There is sloping dirt on the left that will have to be removed.
The south fencing gives the trench a secluded atmosphere.
Looking west, the deep trench is seen in the background just right of center
A wider view looking east:
Continued in Part E
Part “E” (of A-N)
By the Alhambra wash on the west side of the trench construction, the track is slightly uneven and much ballast is in place.
A wider eastward view:
The wash walling:
Continued in Part F
Part “F” (of A-N)
That narrow road that MikeF90 and K.P. have come down to get by the Alhambra Wash:
The fencing is wired poles and mesh fencing.
Continued in Part G
Part “G” (of A-N)
Looking down at the ballasted track (just west of the wash):
Looking eastbound:
Now, by Chapel Ave. looking eastbound at the far west end of the trench:
Note the panel track on the left.
We now head elsewhere.
Continued in Part H
Part “H” (of A-N)
The Workman Hill Road Grade Crossing
City of Industry, CA
The Workman Mill Road grade crossing in the City of Industry was visited, but NOTHING seems to have taken placed in conjunction with the Puente Hills Intermodal Facility (PHIMF). K.P. had thought track would be laid here by now, but no track had been laid.
The Puente Ave. / Workman Mill Road …
… Grade Separation
The Bassett, CA Area
K.P. finally got to the non-construction grade crossing a bit to the west, at Vineland Ave. Valley Blvd parallels the tracks just to the south. A view to the WEST: The center jointed rail is the Bassett siding, the mast signaled track is the Sunset Route mainline, and the cantilever structure’s left signal is for the Metrolink mainline, and the right signal is for the Metrolink siding.
Looking east, and the underpass construction shoofly:
Above, note the City of Industry ‘Up and Over’ on the background right.
Continued in Part I
Part “I” (of A-N)
More views both ways:
West:
East:
K.P. had parked a considerable distance to the west on Valley Blvd., so walking both ways consumed a considerable amount of time.
In the just above photo, if you look real good, the east end of the Basset siding had to be relocated, as with the mast signals.
Finally at the Workman Mill Road grade separation itself, the camera found much to document.
The SOUTH half of the Valley Blvd. bridge at ground level over the underpass was found to be complete. Looking west:
That crossroad on the above photos’ bottoms is a two-way street. At first looking, it appears to be a northbound (rightward) one way street.
Continued in Part J
Part “J” (of A-N)
From the same general area, the shoofly signals and turned aside trackless old signal that will be reused when the shoofly is taken up.
Views northwardish:
The ground underneath that photo bottom concrete was NOT dug down, so the north side Valley Blvd. bridging likely won’t be dug down either (for a while). That way the shoofly won’t need vertical I-beans and wood cross ties horizontally spanning those I-beams. Interesting construction technique!
Continued in Part K
Part “K” (of A-N)
While we are at the New Underpass …
… Do you Remember the ‘Up and Over’?
The some years old ‘Up and Over’ just down the street (east of) from the new underpass just highlighted was visited also. It is quickly becoming unseen, with trees hiding much of it.
Those signals still haven't been activated, nor has a second-track been laid over the ‘Up and Over.’
Looking westbound, with the Orange Ave. railroad bridge in the photo center:
Looking eastbound with the Sunset Ave. bridge barely seen on the right:
Continued in Part L
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