Some great historical photos on another site have us wondering....
Why didn't UP close the ~1/3 mile single track gap between CP Roselawn and CP Oak before? Perhaps long time locals like K.P. have figured out the answer....
Some bing.com map views show the LA sub still single tracked around the diversion site. Presumably this was just before the Spadra siding was absorbed into the current 2MT west to CP Grand.
My timetables show that SP had one mile of a second MT that apparently was reconfigured into the LA sub after the UP acquisition, possibly at the behest of Metrolink. This would have been 'the logical time'....
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
Update as of Friday, February 26, 2010:
A New Switch by Hamilton Blvd.
Pomona, CA
As mentioned yesterday in the reply to MikeF90, an unexpected necessary visit to Pomona, CA was made. Initially, many SP-side workers were found to be assembling a turnout just east of the present [CP] AL514 HAMILTON. In late afternoon, after my person business was taken care of, and the railroad workers had gotten off for the day, it was found that the new turnout's assembly was well along. This view looks northwest from First St. in Pomona.
An eastward view from Hamilton Blvd. showing the new and old east side CP signals. The new switch likely will be cut into the left lower track (our Main C).
Grading equipment had been found parked between the SP and LA&SL (right) sides.
A southeast view of the new turnout. Note the old, present 40 M.P.H. east crossover in the view. It has traditional frogs, as seen in the photo's lower left, and not spring frogs like with the new installations.
As many new turnouts that will be needed for the NEW [CP] AL514 HAMILTON, things are progressing along very slowly, but at least they are progressing now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Update as of Wednesday, March 3, 2010:
That new turnout under construction east of Hamilton Blvd. in Pomona, CA has been completed, and installed. In the below view, the switch is just below photo center.
At photo time, there were no other switches in the area being constructed, and the many turnout construction workers were nowhere in sight. They probably were now off for a week on their unconventional work schedule.
Allot of subtle events have occurred of late in the Colton-Pomona area. It is hoped they can be photo-shared with the forum in the next day or two.
mvs (2-17):
Sorry for the late reply ...
Thanks for your Diversion Project reference material and link.
In 2008 during the Cajon Pass Triple-Tracking, adjacent to the weigh stations on I-10, the new, high, sloping dirt for the additional track had much gully damage to it after a heavy rain. That problem was corrected by repairing the rain damage and spraying a green coating material on the sides of the new landfill grading. There has been no observable problems since.
It is unclear exactly what was rain damaged on the Pomona Diversion, but things looked fine to me on recent visits.
spbed (2-24):
About connecting ... If we cross paths, by all means, say "Hi." My problem, though, is that I never know what I will be doing tomorrow, so it is difficult to plan anything ... When I find I have some free time, I tend to go at the spur of the moment ... rush to a site ... and rush back ...
Concerning what that UP hogger told you (about reducing the importance of the LA&SL line through Riverside) ... I'll believe it when I see it.
The concept does have merit though, as 30 to 60 minutes and costly fuel could be saved Colton-Pomona by not having to take the long way around. But, the proliferation of new spring frog switches in Pomona argues against that. And, UP would be hard pressed to lay a third main track at West Colton Yard. It is very possible, on the other hand, that the "corridor manager" will send more trains via West Colton Yard to save time, but I think the line through Riverside is here to stay.
Of course, another perspective could be that selling it -- while retained trackage rights -- would generate cash for two-tracking and make it more difficult for Uncle Sam to ever attempt to undo the UP-SP merger.
MikeF90 (3-1):
Yes, those were "great historical photos." The SD24 and DD35B's brought back memories, for sure.
The 1/3 mile single-track "gap" between the present [CP] ROSELAWN and [CP] OAK is not really a gap at all, but only appears to be such.
I think the idea is ... well, picture a double-crossover all under one CP ... Now, stretch the tracks out a bit, divide the one CP into three CP's, and presto ...
What is confusing is that LA&SL Main 1, in essence, continues eastward past [CP] ROSELAWN to the SP-side, crosses over at [CP] HAMILTON, and proceeds east on what was once the east siding of POMONA, crosses back over at [CP] RESERVOIR / [CP] WO TOWER and merges with Main 2 and proceeds east as single-track.
For the record, old SP timetables show POMONA was once a south side siding, consisting of a west part of 5773 feet (the current far west one is only 3168-foot long), a double-crossover at Hamilton Blvd. (then listed as "Ave."), and an 8362 feet east part). On the far east end, there was a branching off to the Chino Branch with a rather crude, freakish, angled, semi-street running arrangement after crossing over the LA&SL main that had signaled power switches. The SP side switch was only manual.
K.P.
What's Happening Colton to Pomona, CA
Part A (of A-E)
Unless otherwise specific, the photos herein were shot Wednesday, March 3, 2010.
The revamping of the signal department module in Colton appears compete, and now sports a bland but spiffy sign.
It still is unknown if the module on the left is a future command post for the upcoming Colton Flyover (or whatever concept will be built). The new CP AL514 HAMILTON control boxes are still in Colton, as seen in the background between the two modules.
For those not having access to the TRAINS Newswire (February 19, 2010 / "TIGER grant completes funding for California flyover") and may not have heard ... The announcement was made that the final funding for the project had been obtained. No construction schedule was given, however. The San Bernardino Sun newspaper also carried the story.
Continued in Part B
Part B (of A-E)
The West Colton Yard tote boards at Pepper Ave. are now active. The photo below is on Pepper Avenue's east side, and displayed "926" for a switching move and does not flash, unlike the old ones of years ago that did flash.
At [CP] SP535 PEPPER, the two-headed signal controlling from the yard to Main 2 ... Last week it was observed at night while constantly ON with NO trains in the vicinity. But, it was also observed this past Wednesday again in the ON mode too. NO trains again were in the vicinity. (Something bright green had previously been spilled onto a few of the tracks.)
At photo time, the switch to Main 2 was in reverse. It is unknown if the switch position is the controlling factor, or if it is manually turned on remotely by someone. The view shows a bunch of birds that apparently were attracted by grain that was on the tracks that had dropped from a grain leaking freight car.
Continued in Part C
Part C (of A-E)
Those unexplained 85-foot flats that WERE stored in the Receiving Yard for awhile ...
... have been moved to the Departure Yard for further storage. From Pepper Ave. they go all the way to Riverside Ave. in the background.
The first photo in this Part C was shot back on December 28, 2009. It still has not been determined if the loads are specifically two-tracking related or not, but it is doubtful that they are.
Continued in Part D
Part D (of A-E)
In Pomona, a modest amount of concrete ties are now by the east signal bridge of the future CP AL514 HAMILTON.
As pointed out yesterday, the new switch on the east side of Hamilton Blvd. is now in straight-track service.
Also, just east of Hamilton Blvd., a ditch under the LA&SL had been dug.
In the photo above, note the "MCI" spray-markings on the pavement.
Looking west on the LA&SL side February 26, 2010. Our Main A designation is the track on the left. The future Main B will likely pass just right of the manhole (on the center bottom). In comparing the above photo's MCI markings in the street, apparently the manhole is related to an MCI telecommunications line that follows the right-of-way.
Laying an additional track(s) is more than simply clearing the "right-of-way." So much under or by the tracks is involved, most of which us railfans or railroaders don't normally think about.
Continued in Part E
Part E (of A-E)
Many concrete ties were found to be by [CP] ROSELAWN. The signals in the view are the CP's west side eastbound absolute signals. You may recall the CP will be eliminated when the future new [CP] AL514 HAMILTON is finally up and running.
As a location reference ... The above photo's signals are the same ones seen in the following previously shown 2009 dawn view from Highway 71 that looks eastbound.
You may recall the manholes present in last year's October 31, 2009 view from Humane Way, looking eastbound toward the Highway 71 overpass.
On inspection Wednesday, the manholes were still present, and probably are part of the same MCI line that was pointed out back in Part D concerning Hamilton Blvd.
The future CP area west of Temple Ave. was very briefly checked out also, but no observable activity was noted. Some track equipment, though, was parked on the out-of-service FUTURE Main A (our term) thereat.
This will end the "What's Happening Colton to Pomona" post series.
K.P., thank you again for the great picture updates!
You probably heard about the landslide on the freeway transition ramp from I-10 to SR-57. The excess dirt is being used on the Mission Boulevard "grade separation" from SR-71 which is very close to the photos in your last post.
Update as of Saturday, March 6, 2010:
That Equipment West of Temple Ave.
This poster was unexpectedly 'dispatched' back to Pomona. Naturally, thereat, a very QUICK perusal of the area was made. Little construction activity was present, most notably with a few yellow striped white UP trucks by the signal bridge in downtown Pomona.
In the last report, some equipment was mentioned as being on our future Main A west of Temple Ave. It is unknown if the below equipment is the same equipment or not, but this is what was found Saturday.
That dug ditch under the LA&SL on the east side of Hamilton Blvd. was filled in, and trains were going over it.
Signaling From the Twilight Zone?
You may remember the new, not-in-service-yet signal bridge on the west side of Humane Way, and how the southernmost signal (below photo's left) is different from the rest in that it has two FULL heads. The previously shown photo is dated May 13, 2009.
This poster has been able to conjecture only one likelihood for that arrangement. Would you believe it might be related to a dual-control switch semi-INTERLOCKING with ONLY ONE SIGNAL? That is NOT as illogical as it first may sound ... Details should be composed and ready for posting the afternoon of Tuesday, March 9, 2010.
Back on January 11, I posted this shot of the material staging yard at Maricopa. At the time, it was jammed with company equipment as well as private employee vehicles. K.P. posted a similar photo from his Arizona journey report in February.
Yesterday, my railfan friend Chris from Chicago was in town, and despite heavy rain and the threat of flooding, we made it down to the Gila Sub to watch a few trains and to show him the construction. We could not get any decent pictures, but the staging yard was essentially empty except for a couple of high railers and semi trailers. The same is true over at Bon Siding where all that remains is a small pile of wooden ties and a string of empty MOW gondolas. At least in the immediate area, the tie replacement appears to be complete.
At Eloy, the pre-cast concete bridge sections are still sitting where K.P. had photographed them earlier, along with the bulkhead flats that brought them in.
The finished product in front of the Amtrak depot looks great. We caught a westbound stacker at full track speed and there was no evidence of pumping or water ponding in front of the platform as there has been in the past.
John Timm
desertdog Once we got to Maricopa, the material yard there was buzzing with activity as crews returned from Shawmut at day's end. Besides a lot of machinery and trucks, there were several private vehicles with out-of-state license plates. The small trailer to the right reads "Tie North" which I imagine is / was a similar project in the frozen North. We only took one shot as we were being observed closely by a couple of UP supervisory employees who no doubt wondered why anyone would want to take pictures of a parking lot. John Timm
Once we got to Maricopa, the material yard there was buzzing with activity as crews returned from Shawmut at day's end. Besides a lot of machinery and trucks, there were several private vehicles with out-of-state license plates. The small trailer to the right reads "Tie North" which I imagine is / was a similar project in the frozen North. We only took one shot as we were being observed closely by a couple of UP supervisory employees who no doubt wondered why anyone would want to take pictures of a parking lot.
A Live Dual-Control Switch With Only One Signal?
Part I (of I-II plus)
This forumist now believes such a beast is not only possible, but very likely will come to Pomona, CA! There is a precedent for such a thing, but more on that later ...
Between the future [CP] AL514 HAMILTON and not-to-be-changed LA&SL [CP] C035 MONTCLAIR, there is presently [CP] C033 WO TOWER.
PHOTO #1:
The west end of the number-of-street-blocks-long WO TOWER is the present switch and transition track to the SP side. View looks east. That transition track (left) between the SP and LA&SL sides likely will be removed shortly after all the new trackwork in Pomona is up and running.
PHOTO #2:
The east end of WO TOWER is where the Chino Industrial Lead junctions off. The below view looks northwest at the LA&SL Main, with the SP Main in the background. Los Angeles is to the left. The branch is obviously the grade crossing curved track.
UP seems to be eliminating CP points. As an example, [CP] C030 ROSELAWN, [CP] C031 OAK, [CP] AL513 POMONA, the old [CP] AL514 HAMILTON, [CP] AL515 RESERVOIR, and [CP] C033 WO TOWER will ALL seemingly be combined into one comprehensive, centrally located, new [CP] AL514 HAMILTON that will have TWO control boxes.
PHOTO #3:
Looking east on the LA&SL, the west switch of the MONCLAIR siding. Photo date: August 24, 2009.
The above LA&SL siding should NOT be confused with the SP-side NORTH MONCLAIR siding in close proximity.
So, by only having one signal (PHOTO #2) off the Chino Industrial Lead protecting the LA&SL single-track Main, and BOTH the WEST side eastbound signals at the new [CP] AL514 HAMILTON (not yet installed) AND the EAST side westbound signals at [CP] C035 MONCLAIR protecting the Chino Industrial Lead switch in between, NO other signals or CP's are needed!
Such arrangements are very uncommon, but DO exist. This forum contributor has personally seen on UP's Central Corridor through Nebraska a west end siding switch (WITH a dual control motor) off Main 1 that follows the mains eastward on the NORTH side of Main 1. ONLY the siding has a protective signal facing east for westbound traffic on the SIDING. There is NO west side eastbound Main 1 signal, nor an east side westbound Main 1 signal. The dual-control switch is protected, though, by absolute CP signals probably about a mile on each side of the switch!
Such a very, very low use arrangement is cheap for sure. This forumist now believes such an arrangement will be used for the Chino Industrial Lead. One thing that qualifies the Pomona site is that NO intermediate signals are involved.
Continued in Part II
Part II (of I-II plus)
PHOTOS #4 & #5
Such an arrangement would partially explain the new, southernmost, not-in-service-yet west side eastbound full double-headed signal at Humane Way (photo left).
Conjecturally, then, an eastbound train on LA&SL Main 2 (our Main A) by Temple Ave. and destined and lined for the Chino Industrial Lead could get a yellow over LUNAR at Humane Way (Photo #4, the left two-headed full signal), then a red over flashing red at the new [CP] AL514 HAMILTON, and then continue eastward on straight track at reduced speed to the reverse positioned switch at the Chino Industrial Lead, and traverse it. When the rear of the train cleared the protective red over red signal ON AND FACING THE BRANCH (Photo #2), the dispatcher would be electronically free to line the switch back to normal for mainline traffic.
Continued in "More Thoughts on Signaling at Humane Way."
A continuation from "A Live Dual-Control Switch With Only One Signal?":
More Thoughts on Signaling at Humane Way
The signals on the signal bridges by Humane Way are now believed to be, when finally in service, intermediates. Other Union Pacific intermediate signal bridges are very difficult to find so as to make a comparison.
PHOTO #6:
When the BNSF was triple-tracking Cajon Pass, they put up a proliferation of both absolute and intermediate based signals on cantilever bridges, such as with the following intermediate bridge at Blue Cut (M.P. 65) railroad west of [CP] CAJON.
That bridging has number plates right below the cantilever part. Because of the heavy 2.2% uphill grade, there are "G" plates for grade, allowing a train that encounters a red signal to continue its eastbound moving momentum by not having to stop as required for non G-plated signals (but, being on the lookout, of course, for a potentially stopped train ahead in the block).
PHOTOS #7 & #8:
In going through the K.P. photo files, however, the below UP cantilever signal bridge in Bowie, AZ was rediscovered. The two photos had been previously posted in May-June 2009.
The back facing signal on the left is an absolute, whereas the signals on the right are intermediates, as shown by the right side signal's VERTICAL number plate (BNSF's have horizontal ones).
We will better know the situation at Humane Way in Pomona when the signals thereat are in service, whether they are absolutes or number plated intermediates ... or possibly both as with the above Bowie, AZ photos. But, as noted above, this poster is now inclined to believe they will ALL be intermediates. On the Humane Way two-head signal in question with two FULL heads of three bulbs each, it is believed the highest head will have a normal green-yellow-red arrangement. The lower head likely will have green-yellow-lunar, with NO red. A yellow over GREEN (if it is that way) would let trains know that a clear MONTCLAIR siding routing (see photo #3) is lined ahead.
PHOTO #9:
Such a 60 M.P.H. signal would be reminiscent of the theorized 15 M.P.H. signals at the south end of SLOVER siding, for the East and West Legs of the Wye to the Sunset Route. The June 6, 2009 photo below was shot during old and new signal transition.
With the above pictured SLOVER absolute lower head on each mast, FOUR bulbs each are present. An "over green" aspect (possibly yellow over green, or at least red over green) would be nonconforming, as the next signal on either the West or East Legs of the Wye is of the "red over" type. But, this poster knows of no other logical reason to have a lower green there.
A big factor surrounding SLOVER may be signals that DON'T exist. What? We don't know how the Sunset Route trackage for the Colton Flyover (or whatever it will be) will look like, nor what the signal layout thereat will be. That unknown starts LESS THAN A MILE to the east of SLOVER!
In the Pomona-Colton area, then, because of their rarity, please, if anyone at the forum ever sees a something over green at either Humane Way or one of the ends of SLOVER, by all means share that with us, and if possible, the route that the train that knocked the signal down ended up taking ... With confirmed facts in hand, sort of speaking, the rest should be able to be figured out relatively quickly ...
With all that conjecturing said ... This poster will return to plain non-speculative updates, though things newsworthy seem to be moving painfully slowly now in Pomona, Colton, and I guess even in Arizona.
That 'double head' on the Humane Way signal bridge is a real head scratcher; usage related to the Chino branch switch three miles east sounds like an operational headache to me.
BTW I've been listening to railroadradio.net for the last few days and have heard a lot of slow orders and 'track and time' given near the mileposts for CP Hamilton, Reservoir, Roselawn, Oak and WO Tower. Hmmm .....
K. P. HarrierA yellow over GREEN (if it is that way) would let trains know that a clear MONTCLAIR siding routing (see photo #3) is lined ahead.
A yellow over GREEN (if it is that way) would let trains know that a clear MONTCLAIR siding routing (see photo #3) is lined ahead.
Great pictures, KP.
Curious, why would trains get a Yellow over Green leading up to a Montclair siding routing?
Also, just to clear up some confusion on my part, are you saying there are no Eastbound signals for C033 WO Tower?
Thanks for the updates,
--Robert
Beaumont Hill?
On Wednesday, March 10, 2010, Colton, CA was briefly visited. At the Signal Department yard, a good length flat highway trailer was observed with what looked like new signal equipment on it.
Included was a single-bulb head over a three-bulb head mast.
It was thought that the equipment was maybe for the Pomona Diversion project; however, a number marking was on one of the boxes that suggests otherwise.
If M.P. 568.2 is to be interpreted from that number stenciled on the box, then perhaps a new siding is being added on Beaumont Hill. Timetables list the BANNING double-crossover as at M.P. 568.4. This poster has long felt that that particular area would be ideal for a controlled siding. Maybe UP thinks so too.
If anyone will be out on Beaumont Hill in the Lower Desert of Southern California anytime soon, a field check would be appreciated.
---------
"Rather Definitive" will follow this post.
Rather Definitive
You may remember there was some question as to exactly what causes the West Colton Yard, CA signal below to light.
K.P. found the signal lit with no trains around on Wednesday, March 10, 2010, and BOTH interlocking switches by it were in straight mode.
So, definitively, it obviously is NOT track circuits that causes the signal to light. It must, therefore, be manually turned on from somewhere.
----------
The breaking news nature of the above and the previous post has delayed reply memos to mvs, desertdog, MikeF90, and cabcar. Hang in there guys. I should have something for you in the next day or two.
mvs (3-5):
I often traverse that transition freeway road that you mentioned was closed by the landslide in Pomona, CA, but I was not affected in recent past travels through the area because my travels did not bring me to that transition road.
The Caltrans website indicates that the closed road is now open. When traversing the vacinity very recently, a giant, football field size plastic covering was over the affected steep hillside.
From a railfan's perspective, the landslide caused a great detour, as traffic was diverted south over the SP and LA&SL mains, then one would go over the freeway, and head back over the SP and LA&SL mains again. If a railfan has to detour, that type is of the best kind!
desertdog (3-8):
You gave an excellent report about Arizona in your travels with your friend. I wish there was more going on for you to report.
Here in California, in addition to those signal boxes in Colton, CA that were reported on, there were three large, dark blue containers that had been brought to the site. What is inside them is unknown, but it might be Colton Flyover related. Though things are moving slowly, more and more things seem to be being brought to the Signal Department yard.
MikeF90 (3-9):
"Head scratcher" about that Humane Way signal ... That sure was excellent choice of words on your part!
One thing I've found with multiple-bulb heads is that they are so often based on possibilities. If a route is possible, even though very unlikely, there has be an aspect for it.
Thanks for making us aware of the railroadradio.net website. Where I'm at, radio transmissions from Pomona can't be received. So, the website adds another dimension to my being a railfan.
cabcar (3-9):
You asked, "Why would trains get a Yellow over Green leading up to a Montclair siding routing?"
Without knowing the exact final signal locations for sure, the conjectured premise is that an eastbound would pass THREE signals: (1) Humane Way intermediates, (2) Hamilton Blvd absolutes (AL514), and finally (3) the west end of MONTCLAIR, with an absolute thereat (C035).
To have a Humane Way LOWER lunar-yellow-red absolute head on the LA&SL Main 2 for eastbound trains seems increasingly unlikely, especially since its counterpart for westbound trains only has a lower single-bulb head. That would seem to leave only an intermediate green-yellow-lunar likelihood.
Hypothetically, say a train is lined into the siding at the west end of MONTCLAIR with a red over yellow. At HAMILTON, it would get a yellow over yellow. Standard practice is that at Humane Way it would get a flashing yellow. But, at some locations, instead of a flashing yellow, a yellow over yellow is repeated, for two yellow over yellows in a row. But, a train receiving such an advance yellow over yellow at Humane Way could be confusing to the train crew. Will the train crossover at HAMILTON, or go straight a few more miles and enter the MONCLAIR siding? But, if a yellow over green was received at Humane Way, a crew would know with certainty that they will NOT be crossing over at the 50 M.P.H. switches at HAMILTON, but should continue at 60 M.P.H., and prepare to enter the MONCLAIR siding at 30 M.P.H.
Anyway, that is only my opinion. We will have to wait until all the signals are operational and visually eye-witnessed to know for sure.
(If someone else can find another or better possibility, this poster would love to hear it.)
You, cabcar, also inquired, "Are you saying there are no eastbound signals for C033 WO Tower?"
I have conjectured that there won't even be a [CP] C033 WO TOWER at all, but only ONE signal facing the Chino Industrial Lead, probably wired into [CP] AL514 HAMILTON.
It is hoped that the above clarifies my conjectured opinions.
More on Transported Signal Boxes
Besides that flat trailer at Colton, CA reported on yesterday, there was another flat trailer with what appeared to be older, used electrical boxes, with various markings. One was yellow X'd, another said, "UPRR 005."
That should give the forum even more to ponder ...
Take care all.
Wild Goose Chase
A few days ago, because of stenciling on a signal box on a trailer flat at the Colton, CA signal facility, it was thought MAYBE the track at Banning was being modified. This poster had some unexpected free time Saturday, so the situation was checked out ... NOTHING is taking place in Banning, nor does it appear that anything will.
Here's what the place looks like, though ...
The east side of [CP] SP568 BANNING, looking WEST (from Hargrave Street).
The west side, looking EAST (from San Gorgonio Avenue). Viewers can get a sense of just how steep the east side of Beaumont Hill is by comparing the downward line to the big, low-level building in the center background. The grade crossing where the above photo was shot from is in the below photo's background.
Banning was in the second stage of the modern two-tracking or upgrading of Beaumont Hill in the last decade.
In the second photo above, the track on the right is the alignment of the old Banning siding, and is now Main 2.
This poster felt even more dumb when he stumbled across a facility in Beaumont that he had totally forgotten about, namely, a signal yard!
A surprise find therein, however, was an old CP box far from its old home on the LA&SL (near Los Angeles). It is now stored on the SP Sunset Route, way out on Beaumont Hill. Perhaps UP has plans for it, as it looks like it is of the newer two-door design.
All the signal boxes and the signal reported in Colton as being on truck flats were found to have been offloaded and in storage at the Colton Signal Department. What looked like a NEW CP box in that group had been placed right alongside the stored future two [CP] AL514 HAMILTON boxes.
(This is the first of two posts.)
A Memo to mvs:
From Saturday's Beaumont to Pomona research travels ...
Though previously the Caltrans website did not list the I-10 to Highway 57 transition road as still closed, it nevertheless IS still closed!
The following Pomona Diversion photo from the east side of Temple Ave. looking northward was taken Saturday, March 13, 2010 to give forum followers an idea of just how massive the landslide was and its area proximity to the future four-track Diversion.
(For those unfamiliar ... The worked-on landslide is the clear, dirt area on the hillside toward the photo top left.)
In San Timoteo Canyon ...
Remember those different, newer signals by the Salton Sea that was posted about last month?
For those outside the area ... There is a detector signal set like them at M.P. 558. It is the only location in the Canyon with that type. Highway 60 is in the background. Los Angeles is to the photo right.
Exactly what the logic in having two masts on a box is unknown.
-------------
Coming the afternoon of Tuesday, March 16, 2010: Some definitive, "horse's mouth" type information about when the Pomona Diversion will be up and running.
For the afternoon of Thursday, March 18, 2010: A few photos about all the signs surrounding moveable point frogs on the new Sunset Route.
Another Pomona Switch ... and from the Horse's Mouth
Part I (of I-II)
On Saturday, March 13, 2010, this forumist was in Pomona, CA, and found a new switch under construction, this time on the LA&SL side, by the signal bridge on the east side of the future [CP] AL514 HAMILTON.
This switch was being assembled with all concrete ties. Ties were being gathered and being rested on top of a makeshift track.
The switch-points end. The temporary track underneath is more clearly seen in this view. Also, this photo perspective shows just how close the switch is to the EAST signal bridge (top right).
If you look closely in the photo center, the frog is being hoisted up.
Part II (of I-II)
A UP source indicated that four turnouts are involved in this effort. The first was installed back in November of LAST YEAR, just east of [CP] OAK. If you have been following this thread, you may remember that switch in the below re-shown photo and the five-foot alignment shift at that particular time. The new switch is just below the distant, center track equipment.
Then, in February, a switch was assembled for the SP-side and put in straight-mode service on the WEST side of Hamilton Blvd.
Thereafter, a few weeks ago another turnout was assembled on the EAST side of Hamilton Blvd. and put in straight-mode service also (photo center). All the new switches will be part of the future, big [CP] AL514 HAMILTON, the east signal bridge of which is in the photo background.
In the photo above, old timers will recognize the track in the center as the old SP POMONA siding. Technically, it is now LA&SL (Los Angeles Sub) Main 1. Main 2 is out of view on the right.
And, finally, the fourth switch was under construction this past Saturday as pictured in Part I.
The source indicated that not only the rest of the new turnouts at [CP] AL514 HAMILTON will continue to be assembled in the weeks ahead, but those already assembled west of Temple Ave. will finally be installed.
The source said that the signal people will then come in and probably take a month to wire up everything both west of Temple Ave. and by Hamilton Blvd., and, of course, anything in between, such as at Humane Way.
July this year was spoken of as the projected completion time. So, by August, everything should be done and trains operating over the Diversion.
-----------
This poster has just gotten back from Pomona ... and a BRIEF report will be photo filed tomorrow.
Thank you K.P. for that picture update. I have not been out there in a while. Now that the landslide is more or less cleaned up, and the rain is probably over for the year, we can see the magnitude of it.
Also of note, the minutes from the February 2010 Alameda Corridor East board meeting have been posted under the March 2010 agenda as a PDF file. Not much is said about the Temple Avenue train diversion project, so your information is even more correct.
Update as of Tuesday, March 16, 2010:
The Future [CP] AL514 HAMILTON
The new switch at the east end of the future control point in downtown Pomona seemed complete, but had NOT been inserted into the present LA&SL Main 2.
A closeup of the makeshift support: Rails on widely spaced ties form the supporting structure holding up the new concrete tied turnout.
Since this poster's last update visit, concrete ties had been offloaded west of the above uninstalled switch. The amount of ties seems a bit much for only one switch, so more than one turnout may soon be in the works.
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Thursday, March 18, 2010: A few closeups of those signs around movable point turnouts.
K.P. The signal bridge in the distance has future signals for three tracks on the left then a space then signals for one more track. What is the space for or are you unable to speculate for lack of information?
K. P. Harriercabcar (3-9):But, if a yellow over green was received at Humane Way, a crew would know with certainty that they will NOT be crossing over at the 50 M.P.H. switches at HAMILTON, but should continue at 60 M.P.H., and prepare to enter the MONCLAIR siding at 30 M.P.H. Anyway, that is only my opinion. We will have to wait until all the signals are operational and visually eye-witnessed to know for sure. (If someone else can find another or better possibility, this poster would love to hear it.)
Thanks for the reply, KP.
The reason I asked why there would be a Yellow over Green (Approach Clear Fifty) at Humane Way leading up to the Montclair siding routing, is because a Yellow over Green tells crews to be prepared to cross over when the Yellow-Green is in advance of a 50MPH turnout (Like 50MPH Hamilton, not 30MPH Montclair).
For the Montclair routing, I agree with your other version (Flashing Yellow at Humane, Double Yellow @ Hamilton) leading up to the Montclair siding.
Movable Point Frogs and Warning Signs
There has been some previous discussion herein about movable point frogs and the warning signs that invariably are associated with them on the Sunset Route.
The message to train crew members is very clear.
So, why MUST the switch points be in agreement with the moveable point frog? Simply put, if they are not, a derailment will INVARIABLY result! The violence will be immediate and dramatic. No wonder the signs glaringly remind trainmen that BOTH the switch points and the frog must be in agreement!
The November 2007 TRAINS noted that such turnouts cost somewhere around $200,000 each. So, if a crew member is blind to one of those glaring signs, a few times his annual paycheck could go up in smoke in one whack!
That may be why UP is using spring frogs in Pomona, which MAY (or may not) be an indicator of things to come elsewhere on the Sunset Route.
The photos in this post were shot Saturday, March 13, 2010 on the west side of [CP] SP562 BEAUMONT, in Beaumont, CA, about a mile west of the apex of Beaumont Hill.
K.P., great pics of the warning signs. More proof of too many lawyers involved with the work environment.
blue streak 1K.P. The signal bridge in the distance has future signals for three tracks on the left then a space then signals for one more track. What is the space for or are you unable to speculate for lack of information?
I have no idea why they need four (instead of three) heads on this new signal bridge at this time. Perhaps there were more ambitious plans made before the economic slowdown. In fact, it seems possible that the new CP Hamilton configuration will let UP take the 1.5 mile stretch of middle track just east out of service to enable removal of CP Reservoir. Budget permitting, the 2MT project will bridge the gap east to the North Montclair siding.
Questions for K.P.:
- Are the existing crossovers at CP Hamilton (ex-SP side) fixed frog type? If so, I would expect these to be replaced sooner than later. Of course, we'll see ...
- Have you seen any sign of new signals east near Montclair? You've said that intermediate signals on the UP are rare, but ...
- (EDIT) Does your 'deep source' have any clues about new signalling at CP Hamilton for eastbound traffic? I can't see how UP would recycle much of the existing plant.
TIA, Mike
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