On the Way and From the …
… Thermal-Mecca, CA Area
Part VI (of I-XIV)
How Slow is Slow?
As K.P. recalls, grading was slow (“slow” as in months and months) along Salton Sea, such as this previously posted photo from March 12, 2011, just over five years ago …
… which grading apparently was on BOTH sides of the then single-track line initially in this area before a focus on the other side was made and track actually laid on that other side, so the Thermal-Mecca area might be following that same pattern.
Continued in Part VII
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Part VII (of I-XIV)
We now head east to the Mecca area, to the 4th Street grade crossing at M.P. 623.94, right near Highway 111 (background cross street).
This grade crossing has the second track laid through it, though the grade crossing panels took as though they have been there awhile.
View looking westbound:
Continued in Part VIII
Part VIII (of I-XIV)
An eastward view:
Just to the east of 4th Street is a wash that will need to be wider bridged for the second main.
That future bridging goes over an active creek.
There are small yellow flags in the south side of the right-of-way, but that may be reference the telecommunications line that follows the tracks east-west.
Continued in Part IX
Part IX (of I-XIV)
Westbound views:
Eastward, toward the Mecca siding, the west end of which has that silver painted cantilever signal structure.
Continued in Part X
Part X (of I-XIV)
At the old “silver” cantilever signals bridging, and the east westbound signals.
The west eastbound signal:
A westbound zips by with a gleaming, freshly repainted unit on the point.
Continued in Part XI
Part XI (of I-XIV)
Both east (left) and west side signals.
A roadway is on each side of the tracks.
Continued in Part XII
Part XII (of I-XIV)
The east switch area of the Mecca siding, at CP SP626 MECCA.
Look at that center photo and the Positive Train Control wires still hanging unconnected!
A bit east is Thobe Road, near M.P. 627.
Spacing-wise, picture this area as all two-tracks, the way it will be in the future. There will be CP SP615 COACHELLA, another CP possibly identified as CP SP626 MECCA (in this area), and CP SP637 SALTON, all somewhere about 10-11 miles apart, all on high speed running territory.
Continued in Part XIII
Part XIII (of I-XIV)
The first signal east of the Mecca siding is a relatively new one on different spacing than in target signal days.
What appeared to be some type old signal equipment bases are laying trackside on the north side.
The location is in an agricultural setting.
Continued in Part XIV
Part XIV (of I-XIV)
Now we reach the last CP of this travel session, CP SP633 MORTMAR (M.P. 632.9), the entrance to the north side Mortmar siding, before heading back.
Above, the PTC wires have still not been hooked up. And, there is a signal base on the lower right of center.
A wider view:
K.P.’s assessment is that the Mecca to Salton stretch will remain single-track, just the absolute target signals will be converted to color lights; and the Thermal to Mecca stretch will be two-tracked, if nothing else to avoid turnout routed train at Thermal from having to negotiated that slow switch at 30 M.P.H. But, the slowness of the recent grading Thermal to west of Mecca (in the Highway 86 area) makes one wonder if UP is dragging its feet or if we misinterpreted mere grading for whatever reason as two-tracking. But, in light of previous slow grading, K.P. believes this is actually a two-tracking project. The next time K.P. is out that way maybe (“maybe”) something more definitive can be reported
-----------
On the way back to K.P.’s base, towards evening, he re-stopped by the new Sunset Ave. underpass in Banning (CA), and took more in depth photos. That posting is pending.
kp NOTICE THAT all the lineside wires are now gone. Just a WAG but maybe there is a shortage of final signal equipment ? Maybe the dual bungaloes are set up to have new ones supply power to older ones ? Maybe signal heads, PTC equipment, aspect display detection equipment, Radio licenses and / or radio equipment, etc is in short supply ?
Maybe a conversation with some signal persons will clarify ?
With traffic off in the double digits and revenues in the tank for all the large railroads, capital projects have been cut way back. I know BNSF is only double tracking the Fort Sumner area and a short stretch in Nebraska, plus finishing a short stretch in Minnesota this year. UP also greatly reduced their capital budget for 2016. So I am thinking with traffic and revenues down, the double tracking of the Sunset Route is likely to proceed at a relatively slow pace going forward. If they end up doing, say, 8-10 miles per year, it could take another 15 years or so to complete, depending on traffic levels.
One can recall that the former Santa Fe moved an awful lot of trains each day on the Southern Transcon with much less of a percentage double tracked than the Sunset Route has at 75%-80% double tracked so far.
So UP probably has the capacity in place to run many dozens of trains with the capacity of the Sunset Route as it currently stands.
It would be interesting to hear the thoughts of other forum members on theoretical daily capacity of the Sunset Route as it is configured to date.
kgbw49 With traffic off in the double digits and revenues in the tank for all the large railroads, capital projects have been cut way back. I know BNSF is only double tracking the Fort Sumner area and a short stretch in Nebraska, plus finishing a short stretch in Minnesota this year. UP also greatly reduced their capital budget for 2016. So I am thinking with traffic and revenues down, the double tracking of the Sunset Route is likely to proceed at a relatively slow pace going forward. If they end up doing, say, 8-10 miles per year, it could take another 15 years or so to complete, depending on traffic levels. One can recall that the former Santa Fe moved an awful lot of trains each day on the Southern Transcon with much less of a percentage double tracked than the Sunset Route has at 75%-80% double tracked so far. So UP probably has the capacity in place to run many dozens of trains with the capacity of the Sunset Route as it currently stands. It would be interesting to hear the thoughts of other forum members on theoretical daily capacity of the Sunset Route as it is configured to date.
This part of the BNSF (Fort Sumner, NM - Pecos River) requires a very, very large (expensive) bridge. The 1 mile single-track bridge at Sibley, MO will also be very expensive but by the end of 2016 99% of BNSF's Transcon will be double (and triple) tracked. At the beginning of 2016 BNSF had just 7 miles of single track on the southern Transcon. As to the number of trains, today's trains are longer than Santa Fe's.
The widened right-of-way on UP from east Banning to west of Highland Springs road in Beaumont does have enough width for a third track but west of there down San Timoteo is a pricey problem of finding space. IF ... and when they finish doubling between West Colton and City of Industry they will have in essence triple and quadruple track from LA to C.P. Mount Vernon in Colton. Since Metrolink does not nor will have the equipment or capital to expand its system to expand onto the Sunset Route that dream is a non-starter. Whether UP pursues the second phase west of Ontario airport remains to be seen (but the signals are in the right locations if they do), since auto trains enter from the west there;d be no reason to stage them east of Pedley (and not a very secure idea either).
A10
When I was living in the Chicago area (1997-2001), the railfan rumor mill claimed that BNSF would shut down one track of the Mendota Subdivision during slack periods to save wear and tear. I was never able to verify this, but on the surface it makes sense.
John Timm
Noted on the Progressive Railroad news that Metrolink will start service on the Perris line on June 6. Tried to cut and paste the article but the site would not permit copying.
How's about a link? Of course we can google it but that wouldn't be any fun.
RickH
BarstowRick.com Model Railroading How To's
ccltrains Noted on the Progressive Railroad news that Metrolink will start service on the Perris line on June 6. Tried to cut and paste the article but the site would not permit copying.
Part XV (of XV-XVI, Overall I-XVI)
The New Sunset Ave. Underpass
Banning, CA
The new Sunset Ave. underpass (with the Sunset Route tracks over it): Photos in this posting series, May 1, 2016.
The sidewalking is exceptionally circuitous because of the differences in elevations at the site.
Boulders are present.
And other decorations:
Continued in Part XVI
Part XVI (of XV-XVI, Overall I-XVI)
A westbound passes, lugging up the east slope of Beaumont Hill:
Looking north, Sunset Ave. now lowers under the freeway bridging.
The sidewalk doesn’t here lower as the roadway does. Note the sidewalk on both side of Sunset Ave.
Just during this short walking session it got a lot darker.
Darkness was almost upon us. It was time to head west to base, and hit the pillow …
A resolve, though, was made that sometime in the future a return here will be made, under better lighting conditions, to photograph the railroad bridging in depth, especially how wide it is.
This will conclude the series.
K.P.
The February 2016 Google Earth image of the bridge shows it to be approximately 80 feet wide. Should be adequate for four tracks. Two are already in place and seem to take about half the width of the bridge.
Norm
K. P. Harrier On the Way and From the … … Thermal-Mecca, CA Area Part XVI (of XV-XVI, Overall I-XVI) The New Sunset Ave. Underpass Banning, CA A westbound passes, lugging up the east slope of Beaumont Hill: Looking north, Sunset Ave. now lowers under the freeway bridging. The sidewalk doesn’t here lower as the roadway does. Note the sidewalk on both side of Sunset Ave. Just during this short walking session it got a lot darker. Darkness was almost upon us. It was time to head west to base, and hit the pillow … A resolve, though, was made that sometime in the future a return here will be made, under better lighting conditions, to photograph the railroad bridging in depth, especially how wide it is. This will conclude the series.
I actually like the low evening light KP. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.
blue streak 1 ccltrains Noted on the Progressive Railroad news that Metrolink will start service on the Perris line on June 6. Tried to cut and paste the article but the site would not permit copying. Here is the link http://www.progressiverailroading.com/passenger_rail/news/Metrolink-to-begin-91Perris-Valley-Line-service-in-June--48228
ccltrains
Thanks that did the trick and I was able to share that with the local BVMR's.
K.P. I love those night shots. Hope to see more as you continue such fine reporting.
12 Hours and a Lot of Ground Covered
On Saturday, May 21, 2016 K.P. covered a lot of ground. On the Sunset Route, (1) the San Gabriel Trench (San Gabriel, CA), (2) the Puente Ave. grade separation east of El Monte, (3) the Diversion situation at Humane Way in Pomona, and (4) revisiting the Sunset Ave. grade separation in Banning was pursued. The findings will be shared with the forum in the days ahead on the following schedule:
Wednesday, May 25, 2016: The Puente Ave. Grade Separating in the Bassett, CA area
Thursday, May 26, 2016: The Humane Way area of the Diversion in Pomona
Friday, May 27, 2016: The San Gabriel Trench, San Gabriel
Monday, May 30, 2016: The New Sunset Ave. Underpass in Banning
Posts should be up by (“by”) 3:00 P.M. (Pacific Daylight Time), but could be posted up to six hours early.
(As for other areas, the Gold Line Foothill Extension and the Perris Valley Line -- the latter already posted -- were also visited.)
First, since it can quickly be presented …
Update as of Saturday, May 21, 2016
Part “A” (of A-C, Overall A-T)
The Workman Mill Road / Puente Avenue …
… Grade Separation
Bassett, CA
In the M.P. 498 area of the western Sunset Route, the preliminary onsite work on the grade separation is well along. A north side shoofly has been put in, and is in service. View from the north side looking southish.
Above, the two RIGHT signals are for that shoofly; the left signal is the old Main’s signal, and the old siding signal is gone. Above, too, on the lower left, the old original tracks can be seen severed.
From that north side looking westbound: At least one building had to be demolished for the underpass.
Northish from the south side McDonald’s fast food parking lot:
Looking eastbound, towards the ‘Up and Over’ that is somewhere about five years old now.
Previously, K.P. had surmised the paralleling Valley Blvd. would have the shoofly laid on it, but the powers that be probably thought destroying a building on the north side would be better.
The shoofly is very, very difficult to photograph. The first grade crossing to the west affords a great eastward view of the shoofly, but parking is a nightmare, and K.P. did not have the time to hike in. He might try 6 A.M. on a Sunday sometime …
That McDonald’s fast food place, from being by and at, seems to have taken a major blow to its customer base with this construction, as little cars were in the parking lot, a major change from last visit, where one could get run over in the parking lot if one wasn’t paying attention in walking to or from the restaurant.
Continued in Part B
Part “B” (of A-C, Overall A-T)
A few old, previously shown views looking eastbound from the west side of Puente Ave., and the track and signals that are no longer in service. (All photos from January 3, 2013)
The building below is probably the one gone now, as it was close to Puente Ave. (See Part A, second photo)
Continued in Part C
Part “C” (of A-C, Overall A-T)
Remember, on the east slope of that ‘Up and Over’ are TWO not activated yet signals, so this area is slated to be two-tracked sometime in the future. Photo from March 12, 2011.
In the current post series effort, more Sunset Ave. underpass photos in Banning will be posted. However, there happens to be ANOTHER Sunset Ave. by the ‘Up and Over’ in this post series from the Bassett / City of Industry area. Photos dated November 23, 2010.
Now that issues related to the Diversion in Pomona have been settled, and that area might see two-tracking before the end of the year, this Workman Mill Rd. / Puente Ave. new underpass construction area might see two-tracking also, but K.P. thinks that is a coin flip situation and who knows what will happen, especially with the reduction of coal and other traffic system wide.
This will conclude this three part posting.
---------
The Humane Way material is scheduled for posting Thursday 26, 2016 by 3:00 P.M. PDT.
Part “D” (of D-E, Overall A-T)
The Question at Humane Way
Pomona, CA
There is, as K.P. understands it, supposed to be some drainage issue with the water drainage by Humane Way. Exactly what is unclear, nor why it wasn’t taken care of in the initial Diversion construction in the last decade.
Maybe (“maybe”) the south walling (left side of the north side flood control) is too thin and doesn’t meet the weight of freight train standards.
The tracks looking westbound, with the future, unlade fourth-track on the cleared strip on the right :
Eastbound, and future track is on the left.
Continued in Part E
Part “E” (of D-E, Overall A-T)
The west eastbound signal bridge is close to the Humane Way overpass.
The flood control channeling is close to the tracks.
On our (“our”) track identifications (left to right, south to north), the “A” track is newest, the “B” track is the original, single-track LA&SL alignment, the “C” Track is the old LA&SL siding alignment (future SP side Main 2), and the unlaid right alignment is for the future SP Main 1. At this point in time, and maybe some forum contributor might know, but K.P. is unsure of where the old LA&SL Spadra SIDING ended, if it was before or after (behind) the overpass.
(For the passenger train nostalgia clan, K.P. was on the second to last UP City of Los Angeles eastbound train April 29, 1971, led by E-8 UP 938, and it went into the Spadra siding (the “C” Track), and met the westbound (away from the camera) City of Los Angeles on the then Main (our “B” Track) that had E-8 UP 932. K.P. was in the last car of the eastbound train, and saw UP 932 zip by on that curve in the distance. Back in 1971 the whole atmosphere landscape of the area was different, with just a single-track LA&SL mainline and the Spadra siding. What a change took place, to three- and four-tracks!)
This will conclude the “The Question of Humane Way” segment.
The segment on the San Gabriel Trench construction (9 Parts) is scheduled for posting by 3:00 P.M. (Pacific Daylight Time) on Friday, May 27, 2016.
The east siding switch of Spadra use to be just west of the Humane Wy overpass. In your last three photos, the westbound home signal was basically right were the signal bridge is today. The west siding switch was just west of the Temple Ave overpass.
Note, that Temple Ave was constructed in this area between 1966 and 1972. There was no Temple Ave prior to current road on an overpass was built. Humane Way was a grade crossing prior to the current overpass being constructed in the early 1970's. Humane Wy might have had a different name back then, but I am not sure.
Part “F” (of F-N, Overall A-T)
The San Gabriel Trench
San Gabriel, CA
For location perspective, there is eastward Los Angeles, Alhambra, and San Gabriel.
MikeF90 last traveled the narrow road to the Alhambra flood control area and posted for us some excellent photos. This past trip K.P. first started his San Gabriel Trench exploration by that same flood control area.
As seen above, the east wash walling is presently being crewed away.
Continued in Part G
Part “G” (of F-N, Overall A-T)
Some Alhambra Wash area closing views:
K.P. talked with a friendly worker in the area, who said the powers that be were looking for workers to work on the trench THIS Memorial Day weekend! Sounds like the trench construction effort is desperate to move things along! Supposedly, the schedule calls for only another year of construction, and they still have to lay track in the trench and have trains running through it to be able to finished certain parts of the trench.
We next go to Del Mar Ave., an easy access location, and see the now closed pedestrian pathway across the tracks.
At Del Mar Ave., west side, looking south: The roadway bridge, while open now, is still having parts of it finished.
Continued in Part H
Part “H” (of F-N, Overall A-T)
The trench walling west of Del Mar Ave. now has the final trench walling covering the crude trench vertical sides.
Looking east, the walling is likewise rather smooth finished now.
Continued in Part I
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