K. P. Harrier Railway Man (1-30):
That has to be the widest/ longest span for a signal bridge that I've seen outside of a terminal area - and maybe some of them, too. There's 4 sets of heads on it, plus room for easily 1 more - looks like the equivalent of a 6-track span. thanks for sharing !
- Paul North.
K. P. Harrier Update as of Saturday, January 29, 2011: City of Industry to Colton to Riverside, CA Part A, Section 4 (of 1-4) South Fontana [snipped] Colton The Colton area was visited also, but nothing of obvious interest was spotted. There seemed to be a stack of maybe 3-inch piping there for unknown use, though.
City of Industry to Colton to Riverside, CA
Part A, Section 4 (of 1-4)
South Fontana [snipped]
The Colton area was visited also, but nothing of obvious interest was spotted. There seemed to be a stack of maybe 3-inch piping there for unknown use, though.
Piping of that size - or more commonly, 4-inch - is often used as a conduit for signal wires to get them under/ across the tracks, and/ or under/ across roadways at grade crossings, etc.
Railway Man (1-30):
Great hearing from you!
There are no intermediate signals on the tracks involved, just absolutes to the west and to the east. The present CP boxes on each side of the box in question are probably less than a mile and a half apart.
There are, however, plenty of grade crossings, and the box highlighted might be related to them.
The box in question is not visible on the far right of the photo above. File photos taken adjacent to the above photo are available to K.P., and they indicate the box was NOT present when the above photo was shot, so it is a relatively new box!
One would think the two CP boxes at Colton would have been brought to Pomona by now, but there may be too much track rearranging in the future, especially on the west end of the future CP, and they may be safer where they are at, in Colton.
On the west end of the Diversion, in the Spadra area west of Temple Ave. in Pomona, the four-track CP box WAS put in there, though granted, it does not have as complicated of internal wiring as the future CP AL514 HAMILTON for downtown Pomona has.
Railroad workers have been scarce of late in the Pomona area, so no authoritative word was available to convey to the forum about all this.
You made a very good point though about CP box costs, making complicated spares less likely. If there was a mishap, while the track at the future CP AL514 HAMILTON could be jerry-rigged with nonfunctioning signals turn aside, and turnouts used in hand-throw mode if necessary, with track circuits on each side temporarily continuing through the CP limits, trains could get through at speed. In the meantime, a very complicated replacement CP box could probably be to put together from scratch, taking perhaps a week. But, railroads are incredibly resilient, and could deal with it!
Best,
K.P.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Update as of Saturday, January 29, 2011:
South Fontana
The WEST end of South Fontana has had the east side westbound mainline signal relocated so that it is a left side unit. The siding still does not have a new mast signal. That tells K.P. the trackwork there may be reconfigured. It is also one of those areas where one has to hike in a mile to document what is happening there, and K.P. did not have time to do that on this visit.
At the EAST end of South Fontana, at [CP] AL531 SOUTH FONTANA, the new masts have finally been erected.
The new masts are still headless, though the mast on the left seems to have a lower head.
Note that one of the masts is seen between a wooden pole and just left of the big advertising sign pole.
Colton
The new tri-light signals at Colton Crossing and also by the BNSF B-5 Bridge still have not been activated yet, nor has the cantilever part been attached to the structure on the north end of the BNSF CP (reshown below).
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Part B will show what is happening at LA&SL's Magnolia Ave. underpass construction site in Riverside (like the rail bridging now taking shape). That posting is scheduled for Tuesday morning, February 1, 2011.
Trust me, they are not spares. They're for a future cut-over. Derailments that wipe out an instrument house might happen once or twice a year on the entire system. No one can justify building a $250,000 spare instrument house for that kind of risk level. Instrument houses are also 100% custom for each location.
I can't tell from the photos what the unmarked house is for, or if it's just sitting there or doing something, but some possible uses are:
RWM
Part A, Section 3 (of 1-4)
The Diversion
The second, concerns the area just west of the future CP AL514 HAMILTON's western limit. WHAT do we have here by the present eastern westbound signals at [CP] CO31 OAK?
A GROUP of mystery old tires (above) (not just two) have suddenly showed up!
Do you remember the couple of old tires that were recently photographed at the two-tracking by Sidewinder Road's (M.P. 723.4) near the California-Arizona border?
Are the tires in Pomona a "sign" indicating that something might finally happen in the near future by the future [CP] AL514 HAMILTON? Time will tell.
Continued in Section 3
Part A, Section 2 (of 1-4)
Nothing seemed to be taking place on the Pomona Diversion. The SP line still has not been relocated to the Diversion and continues to block vehicle traffic on Temple Blvd., as well as Pomona Ave., reshown below:
Two thoughts are mentioned though ...
First, there are two Pomona future CP AL514 HAMILTON boxes at the Colton Signal Dept. that seems to be just lingering at the Colton site.
The above front (south) side photo, and below back (north) side view, are reshown.
Is it possible they are backups? It is unknown if the unlabeled box RIGHT BY the east signal bridge for the future CP AL514 HAMILTON is intended to be the east CP box or not (or if it is purely coincidental that a box was right by where a signal bridge was erected). It does look a slight bit smaller though.
But, because of the future CP's complexity, it would seem prudent if the railroad kept a spare, backup set in case a derailment took out one of the new CP boxes.
As of this date, there is NO matching box on the west end of the future CP AL514 HAMILTON, nor new signals.
Part A (of A-B), Section 1 (of 1-4)
Orange Ave.
Regarding the City of Industry's 'Up and Over,' Orange Ave. near the midway point is still NOT open to vehicle traffic yet.
On a photo left to right basis (westbound to eastbound), the 'Up and Over' is still climbing, and actually peaks probably 600 feet to the photo right.
The view above is from the south side. Valley Blvd. (foreground) parallels the tracks. The crossing gates visible are for the industrial lead on the other side of the 'Up and Over,' for those that may have just joined us.
It also can be reported that the many bundles of wooden ties all the way over the 'Up and 'Over' are STILL in place untouched and unbundled right where they previously had been dropped off (below previously shown photo).
Continued in Section 2
tdmidget The proposed yard is not really at Red Rock. Look West of Park Link ( yes I know it is actually North but it is railroad West, and you will see a large area of cultivated land. This is the site. It is also the reason for opposition. The land is state trust land and is leased by Herb Kai, local wheeler dealer of questionable deals ( search Marana Landfill). If UP wants it the state will have to put at auction. Kai has a sweetheart deal here and doesn't want it sold.. He is the leader and pretty much sole opposition.
The proposed yard is not really at Red Rock. Look West of Park Link ( yes I know it is actually North but it is railroad West, and you will see a large area of cultivated land. This is the site. It is also the reason for opposition. The land is state trust land and is leased by Herb Kai, local wheeler dealer of questionable deals ( search Marana Landfill). If UP wants it the state will have to put at auction. Kai has a sweetheart deal here and doesn't want it sold.. He is the leader and pretty much sole opposition.
For a long time there was a large billboard across from the site that basically proclaimed that the railroad yard would spoil the natural beauty of the desert in the area. Although nearby Picacho Peak is a state park, everything surrounding it is tacky to say the least, including the ruins of several abandoned or burned out buildings, neglected signs, run down mobile homes, a couple of tourist traps, a huge RV park and an ostrich farm--not exactly a pristine setting. As far as I am concerned, the railroad yard will be an aesthetic improvement.
John Timm
Paul_D_North_Jr Crossing signals for UP at Scottsdale Rd. in Tempe, Arizona: These photos are only marginally related to the thread - but thedepicted track is 'connected' to it, so: Here's something you don't see every day - the upscale citizens of Scottsdale and students at ASU-Tempe Campus being delayed by a UP 'light engine' move of 4 locomotives eastbound at about 6:00 PM on Friday evening, 07 Jan. 2011: May comment on the crossing signals later. - Paul North.
Crossing signals for UP at Scottsdale Rd. in Tempe, Arizona:
These photos are only marginally related to the thread - but thedepicted track is 'connected' to it, so:
Here's something you don't see every day - the upscale citizens of Scottsdale and students at ASU-Tempe Campus being delayed by a UP 'light engine' move of 4 locomotives eastbound at about 6:00 PM on Friday evening, 07 Jan. 2011:
May comment on the crossing signals later.
"May comment on the crossing signals later." Come on Paul, let us in on the secret.
K.P., thanks for the latest set of photos.
Here is something of interest:
Work on the up-and-over for the Alhambra Subdivision at Milliken Avenue will commence at the end of February, per this newspaper article.
Along the exCNW when they removed the pole lines, they left the poles with the mile post number and hash marks (metal rings around the poles) for the quarter and half mile locations standing.
The first quarter/half mark signs used hash marks instead of numbers.
Jeff
Positive Train Control and More Than Milepost Signs
In very recent posts in this thread, the subject of mileposts had come up in relation to the future use of Positive Train Control (PTC).
At this forum, some outside UP's coverage area may not know that the railroad has erected quarter-mile markers systemwide, at 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 mile points.
Likely this has been helpful to trainmen in identifying where they were at in the ever increasing absence of line-wires and wood telephone poles.
This poster does not envision it happening, but if PTC changed the location of mileposts, more than just milepost signs would need to be relocated!
"Then someone created the steel chain (link version) and we really became accurate."
If it's good enough for the NCAA and NFL, it's good enough for the UP.
We in the west have our own stories about early surveying. The first tells of measuring distance with: "the number of roll your own cigarettes smoked while riding a slow moving burro."
As we became more sophisticated we tied a bandana around the spoke of a buggy wheel ( for which we knew the circumference ) and then counted the revolutions as we rode, presumably in a straight line, between two points.
Then someone created the steel chain (link version) and we really became accurate.
That would be a fast 14-1/2 miles ! Maybe jeff could try his locomotive computer trick there some day and really confuse adn disorient the trainees . . .
We too here in the east have a datum correlation for elevations, but around here it is much smaller - typically 0.5 to 0.7 ft. from the benchmarks set on the 1929 datum - which are mostly along rail lines - to the benchmarks set on the 1988 datum - typically along the highways. It's too big to ignore, but too small to 'jump out' at someone who doesn't know about it, esp. when using a GPS - so there's a lot of questioning and double-checking that goes along with doing that kind of work around here.
No discussion of this is complete without referring to Robert A. LeMassena's excellent essay on the topic:
And when you start to get really, really, accurate and precise, then you have to take into account the tectonic movements of the continental plates - something like 1 centimeter = 3/8" = 0.03' or so a year along the San Andreas Fault, and swelling/ shrinking of the Earth's crust from that and other causes - I saw over the weekend that the Yellowstone Park area is reported to have risen something like 10" over the last 6 years or so . . .
At Skull Valley, Arizona on the BNSF line from Williams Jct. to Phoenix this is the linear equation:
MP 65 + 2669.12 = MP 79 + 5156.12
The level equation is: 4282.1 = 4319.6 which is attributable to USC&GS bench marks being established between the time of initial construction and the main line relocation in 1962.
Thanks for posting that story, jeff ! I was thinking about it as I was typing as a whimsical example of how that could come to be, but didn't have that volume handy. Probably some of the actual reasons are just as off-the-wall . . .
Good one - "MP 82.5 = MP 86.0" is also an "equalization station" or "equals point", but on a grander scale !
Remind me to never play cards with you . . . at least not for serious money ! Again, a good example.
A section foreman was instructed by the roadmaster one day to build a tool house exactly at the half way point between two mile posts. To decide the spot, he had one of his men start walking at the far mile post and he started out at the same time from the near end. The spot where they met was where they built the tool house.
The roadmaster hearing of this, went to the section foreman and informed him it wasn't at the exact halfway spot. The section foreman was short legged, while the other man was long legged and had a longer stride. The foreman said he would take care of it.
A few days later, the roadmaster saw the foreman again and asked if the tool house was now at the exact half way spot. It was, said the foreman. Asked if he had much trouble moving the tool house, the foreman responded, "No trouble, I moved the mile post."
From the Treasury of Railroad Folklore.
Seriously, over the years minor line changes can make miles shorter or longer. If the change is big enough, it will be noted in the time table. Like the Linn County cut off, the freight line the CNW built south of Cedar Rapids. At the east end of Beverly is the miliage change where the cut off rejoins the original main line, MP 82.5 = MP 86.0.
Other places where the line change doesn't affect the miliage as much, they've just used a shorter or longer distance between mile posts. One short (only about 3/4 mile long) mile we have is where I liked to show new hire students how to use the timing function on some of the computer screens to check the speedometer. Then watch their expressions when according to the computer we were going way faster, and over the speed limit, than shown by the speedometer.
The accuracy of the mileposts 'depends' - it varies greatly depending on the antecedent (original) railroad, the factors mentioned by diningcar above, whether line relocations have occurred - even small ones - that would shorten or lengthen the distance, and even how far out from the Survey C/L (centerline) the MP is radially in a curve, among many others . . .
For instance - since I don't have access to either UP's or SP's engineering records for this line - I just pulled up the NS 2008 Track Chart for the "Horse Shoe Curve" area - it's dated 12/03/2008 for the Pittsburgh Division from http://www.multimodalways.org/docs/railroads/companies/NS/NS%20Track%20Charts/NS%20Pgh%20Division%20Track%20Chart%202008.pdf Here are the distances between the MPs from MP PT236 = about ALTO tower at the foot of the grade through MP PT 249 = just past Gallitzin Summit and CP's AR/ UN, on pages 025 - 027 inclusive (Pages 33 - 35 inclusive of 356; the whole file is approx. 11.55 MB in size):
MP: Dist. to Next MP: Diff. from 5,280':
PT 236: 5320' +40'
PT 237: 5187' - 93'
PT 238: 5372' +92'
PT 239: 5274' -06'
PT 240: 5276' -04'
PT 241: 5287' +07'
PT 242: 5282' +02' "HORSESHOE CURVE" (west side)
PT 243: 5270' -10'
PT 244: 5385' +105'
PT 245: 5149' -131'
PT 246: 5311' +31'
PT 247: 5307' +27'
PT 248: 4646' -634'
PT 249: 5238' -42'
Note that there's not an even 5,280 ft. in the bunch ! Now, some of the differences are very - even trivially - small, and some other differences pretty much cancel each other out in one or both of the adjoining 'miles'. See PT 237 and 238, 241 - 243, and 245 - 247, each inclusive - so those are likely where the milepost is just a few feet away from its intended correct position, which affects the lengths of the adjoining miles about equally and in opposite directions. But what's up with PT 248 ? And what makes all of this really weird is that none of this line has ever been substantially relocated - widened and shifted sideways a bit, yes - but never moved !
As a result, NS has in its Employee TimeTables for each division a listing of which MP's are confirmed as accurate enough for testing and checking speedometers and the train length devices on the locomotives, etc. For example, per the 2005 ETT for this Division from - http://www.multimodalways.org/docs/railroads/companies/NS/NS%20ETTs/NS%20ETT%20Pittsburgh%20Division%20%234%2012-15-2005.pdf (140 pages, 9.54 MB), at the top of page 58 = Page 62 of 140, under 3. CHECKING LOCOMOTIVE SPEED INDICATOR, the nearest location of a "Test Mile" and signs for it in this area is from MP PT 243.0 to MP PT 244.0, which as can be seen above is 5,270' or 10 shorter . . .
So us railroad surveying and engineer types usually prefer to use the 'stationing' instead, which can be either the "engineering stations" from the original construction or a later mapping, or the "valuation stations" from that later mapping and inventory effort. Those 'stations' are usually in the format of "123+45.67", which translates to 123 (x 100' 'stations') + 45.67' = 12,345.67 ft. from the "0+00" starting point, wherever that is and however that was determined. Almost all major structures such as bridges, etc. are 'tied' to one or both of those systems, and any inconsistencies or changes in distance along the way are (or at least should be) referenced and noted by an 'equalization station' which in effect 'resets the counter' (kind of like a trip odometer on your car) to a new figure. One example might be like this:
"123+89.00 AHD [going ahead from this point] = 123+45.67 BK" [coming up to this point from behind]
which has the effect of 'skipping over' 43.33' (89.00 - 45.67), and hence making the 'nominal' overall distance or that mile shorter by that amount. (At this point, if you're looking vainly for logic and consistency in all this, see the quote from Alice in Wonderland to the effect of "Words mean exactly what I say they mean, nothing more and nothing less", and replace "Words" with "Numbers" . . . )
But please hope that mudchicken doesn't see this portion of the thread and get started on his standard - and well-justified - 'rant' about the alleged accuracy of GPS . . . It can be useful and has a place, is usually infinitely better than "somewheres over thataways" - and yes, is somewhat better than those MP inaccuracies of the sort that I noted above. But it's not a panacea and can be downright misleading if not carefully calibrated, adjusted, set-up, 'dialed-in' to the local 'ground-truth' coordinates and basis of the mapping or records that are being used or referenced, etc. The 'default' settings aren't good enough, and it takes some intelligence and specialized training to use it properly and know its limitations, where it can and is working properly and validly, and where it won't and isn't. But it's a rare person who wants to know about or discuss the limitations of the expensive new high-tech gadget he just bought . . .
Regarding Mile Post locations on the ground (ROW) we should keep in mind that they have existed accurately on railroad maps since initial construction. However they were and are located approximately correct as we view them on the ground. Some RR's originally posted them on the pole lines located near the ROW fence, which meant that they were placed on the pole nearest to the exact location. When they were placed on their own post nearer to the track they were usually accurate (to the nearest foot perhaps) but not precise. Then as maintenance work was done they were temporarily removed and subsequently replaced by the maintenace workers which had the potential to have them moved a few feet.
RR engineering staff uses the face of a bridge abutment that has been previously accurately established when they were establishing locations for new facilities such as switch points, another bridge or the beginning of a curve that was being modified.
Grade Crossing Signal Box Milepost Number Removals
K.P. stands by his belief that, unofficially, M.P.'s are being removed from grade crossing electrical box placards in order to avoid confusion on the part of a multi-state grade crossing hotline center.
One thing that impresses one that sees official railroad technical maps is that everything seems to have a specific milepost listing. And, as with surveyors back in history, today surveyors repeatedly use certain legally established and accepted points. So, it would seem mileposts are very accurate. Matter of fact, employee timetables often have charts that lists the time it takes to travel between those mileposts, such as at 60 M.P.H. it will take 60 seconds to travel to the next milepost sign.
Global Positioning Satellite (GPS) technology is so often used now in land surveying, and that technology is highly accurate, but what has been "land" surveyed in the past has legal legitimacy, and rightfully so.
Yesterday, I bought lunch for a Bachelor of Science degreed math wizard I know, and he obliterated some theorizing on my part about why there might be milepost discrepancies. So, I'll just go with the traditional mileposts and leave it at that ...
More about Red Rock, AZ
MikeF90 yesterday posted very enlightening information about the future Red Rock Yard, the main part of which will be located WEST of Park Link Drive, which road is just railroad west of the Red Rock siding. Thanks, Mike, for digging the information up.
Two photos dated nearly three years ago shot from Park Link Dr. are reshown below.
An eastbound view: Aerials indicate the second-track grading is now in the area on the photo right,
The westbound view: The future yard should be built somewhere (distance unknown) on the right.
I just thought I would pass these photos along again to the forum.
Stay safe everyone,
K. P. HarrierBut, I wonder if UP plans on building the yard more westward, and the namesake community of Red Rock will be the far eastern edge of the yard.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
K. P. Harrier Replies ... [snip] cacole (1-20): In personal visits to the Red Rock*, AZ area, I found the location rather confining, especially with the Tucson Aqueduct nearby. Three MapQuest links to aerial views are provided below: http://mapq.st/ienUeC http://mapq.st/fL1iH3 http://mapq.st/f7FUoA But, I wonder if UP plans on building the yard more westward, and the namesake community of Red Rock will be the far eastern edge of the yard. I wish I could see diagrams of what UP has in mind there. While the yard will start off as a small classifying facility, I can't imagine the railroad not being able to expand it in that open, rural area, except for the rather confining aqueduct area you, cacole, mentioned, plus the power entity on the east end. * If one does a MapQuest.com search for "Red Rock, AZ," one will likely find another Red Rock in Arizona, near the Utah-Arizona-New Mexico border. If "Wymola, AZ" is typed in instead and one goes to a slightly closer view, one should have no problem seeing the UP Red Rock to the southeast of the Wymola siding.
Replies ...
[snip]
cacole (1-20):
In personal visits to the Red Rock*, AZ area, I found the location rather confining, especially with the Tucson Aqueduct nearby.
Three MapQuest links to aerial views are provided below:
http://mapq.st/ienUeC
http://mapq.st/fL1iH3
http://mapq.st/f7FUoA
But, I wonder if UP plans on building the yard more westward, and the namesake community of Red Rock will be the far eastern edge of the yard. I wish I could see diagrams of what UP has in mind there.
While the yard will start off as a small classifying facility, I can't imagine the railroad not being able to expand it in that open, rural area, except for the rather confining aqueduct area you, cacole, mentioned, plus the power entity on the east end.
* If one does a MapQuest.com search for "Red Rock, AZ," one will likely find another Red Rock in Arizona, near the Utah-Arizona-New Mexico border. If "Wymola, AZ" is typed in instead and one goes to a slightly closer view, one should have no problem seeing the UP Red Rock to the southeast of the Wymola siding.
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet or lately, so at the risk of being repetitive: There's a water tower that sure seems like it would be an ex-SP tank, with the name "Red Rock" painted on its southwestern side facing I-10. The water tower is at the following Lat./ Long. coords. per the "ACME Mapper 2.0" application: N 32.57700 W 111.32461 It's close by the northeastern side of the tracks - main on the southwest, siding on the northeast - about 1,500 ft. = 0.3 mile northwest of the road bridge over I-10 for the MP 226 interchange exit and entrance ramps, and about 2,650 ft. = 0.5 mile northwest of the southeasterly-end turnout for the siding that extends to the northwest there. The northwesterly end of the siding is about 6,300 ft. = 1.2 miles to the northwest of the water tower, about 600 ft. = 0.1 mile after it crosses over a branch from the Tucson Canal /Aqueduct at its closest approach to the tracks.
Two observations/ comments - although please note that I have no first-hand knowledge of this situation, other than having driven past it twice about a year ago, and what I can see from the presently 'on-line' aerial photos and maps, etc.:
1. Do we know on which side of that closest approach of the aqueduct's 'pinch point' will the UP construct its yard ? The "Topo" button on the ACME Mapper 2.0 view does indeed show the "Saguaro Power Plant" and a couple of substations - perhaps for the nearby pumping station for the aqueduct - to be about 11,000 ft. = 2.1 miles southeast of the Red Rock water tank. But Eeven that's a decent distance away, and what's more, there does not seem to be much in the way of adverse terrain or improvements on that northeastern side of I-10 to the northwest of Red Rock for a considerable distance, so perhaps the yard will extend out that way ?
2. Why are we assuming that the adequct and its branch there can't be covered, or moved/ relocated off to the northeast a little ways, so that UP can have the room to do what it wants ? The physical cost of that would be small compared to the cost of the several relocations of road and railroad at the Marsh Station Road interchanges of I-10 about 60 miles further to the east/ southeast. More extensive relocations have been done elsewhere, too. The terrain appears to be fairly flat, and moving the aqueduct to 'cut the corner' should help its hydraulic performance, not worsen it. Keep in mind, too, that the aphorism to the effect of "Water can indeed flow uphill - when it's towards money !" was coined in regard to such canal and aqueduct projects in this arid part of the country (see the book Cadillac Desert, etc.) So unless there are permitting/ approval, environmental, or archeological, etc. issues or similar 'hold-ups' of some kind - which may well be the cause of the delay observed so far - relocating the canal would seem to be a better way to deal with the problem, rather than accepting a severely constrained yard.
Just my . . .
Activity in Imperial and Riverside Counties, CA
Part III, Section C (of A-C)
A Territory of Unusual Things ...
Between CP SP654 (the above west switch) ROGOZA all the way west to SP635 (the east switch of) MORTMAR the intermediate signals (NOT CP absolutes) are newer tri-lights. The previously shown photo below exemplifies those different styled single-box two-poled units. (The newer intermediate tri-light closest to CP SP654 strangely is of the traditional box-less, single pole type.)
While K.P. has been through that area a number of times previously, he is uncertain if the some 20 mile stretch was converted to the above type signals all at once, or is in a subtle, gradual conversion that is progressing westward.
From the west switch of the Mortmar siding (M.P. 632.9) westward to the beginning of two-tracks westward at Thermal (M.P. 620.2), the signals, both absolutes and intermediates, are all of the old target type.
In the twenty or so mile stretch from the Rogoza siding to the Mortmar siding, some new culverts are springing up, especially on the east end. While the main structure of those culverts looks traditional, the TOP soil holding design strikes K.P. as kind of a space age, log cabinish look, and rather unusual.
What especially caught K.P.'s eye on those culverts, though, was the lack of handrails to prevent workers from slipping into a creek bed below. It is unknown if such is yet to be attached or if handrails are not needed with that type design and are a safe, money saving way of bridging creeks, but K.P. questions the latter.
The following photo from January of last year (2010) shot just east of Sidewinder Rd., way before track laying resumed, shows the protective railing (top left) that had been used previously.
In that twenty mile or so northwest-southeast stretch now under discussion, between the Bertram siding (M.P. 646.1, west switch) and the Ferrum siding (M.P. 640.6. east switch), is the east-west Imperial-Riverside County line.
While the November 2007 TRAINS Magazine listed two-tracking from the Indio area planned all the way to Niland, that never materialized, likely because of the then deterioration of the national economy. But, UP's recent announcement of the resumption of Sunset Route two-tracking, and the physical evidence in both Maricopa, AZ and California's Sidewinder Rd. areas that it has, K.P. wonders if grading might be in the near future from CP SP656 ROGOZA westward. K.P. cannot come up with any other explanation for UP erecting a couple of tri-light signal masts 100 to 200 feet west of where the present old target signals are at. But, a future double-crossover there would make sense of that.
Finally, a photo looking eastward towards the east switch of CP SP641 FERRUM: The mainline signal is the one on the left.
Desertdog had recently photo-posted a similar, but not activated short poled target signal at CP SP917 CASA GRANDE. He also reported that it was recently taken back down too. But, the photo above is proof enough that UP occasionally erects suchlike short masts for mainline service, as strange as that may be.
Part III, Section B (of A-C)
A telephoto of the east end of that Rogoza siding: The old target signal on the right looks a little tipsy.
But notice the new CP box ... and new MAST for the mainline in the above photo's background!!!
A new mast had been erected for the siding as well.
But, there is something strange concerning those new masts! While it is not real clear in the photos above, those new headless masts are estimated to be 100 to 200 feet BEYOND the current target signals (including the tipsy one) and further into the siding!
The building structures photo-mentioned in Section "A" earlier belong to California's Border Patrol, and all northbound auto and truck traffic must go through their inspection stop. I went through behind an eighteen wheel that the border patrol talked to ... and talked to, and talked to. Just as that truck started to move forward, it dawned on K.P. to take a few side photos of those new masts and their distance from the old signal masts ... but the traffic was now moving forward and precluded such photography. Sorry guys ...
This is the west switch of that Rogoza siding at CP SP654 ROGOZA, looking eastward.
Continued in Section C
Part III, Section A (of A-C)
Between Glamis and Niland there is no direct paved highway, only the dirt Ted Kept Rd., and related dirt roads, so K.P. went the long way around. When he got to Niland, there was no new signal installation activity observed, all the way west to CP SP656 ROGOZA.
Looking eastbound from Frink Rd. at M.P. 656.2: There is no second-track grading.
Now a westbound view ...
This whole area is called the "Lower Desert," as opposed to the "High Desert" by Cajon Pass, Barstow, and Needles, and the route of the BNSF Transcon.
Make a mental note about the building structures on the upper left of the just above photo.
Another westward view, but showing the CP around the curve: CP SP656 ROGOZA, the east switch of the Rogoza siding. The siding was previous named the Frink siding years ago.
Continued in Section B
Replies (Second Section) ...
Paul D. North, Jr. (1-20):
Thanks for your expertise about tampers, etc. It is great to have someone knowledgeable about those types of equipment.
mvs (1-20):
You said about the Phelan, CA area on the Palmdale Cutoff, "I remember barely getting our Ford truck through along some of the dirt roads in the area."
Imagine what happens when it rains, and the dirt roads get deep gullies in them! And, then it snows ... and the deep gullies get covered up so one cannot see the deep gullies!
blue streak 1 (1-22):
What little that I've seen, the old signals, CP and other electrical boxes are consistently removed quite quickly after cutover, and carted away.
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