K.P., from your latest excellent photos it seems that there is room for a future 'team track' between the Milliken Ave flyover and the ROW south edge, if needed.
This earlier photo didn't reveal the scale that the truck and large cargo in the latest photo did! Mr. North may elaborate, but I think we're seeing precast 'blocks' that will be filled in with compacted earth or light concrete.
As for a future control point, the top of the flyover would be a good place for any signals, otherwise line of sight to them might be blocked with possible bad consequences. The current Vina Vista is MP 526.0, west of those recently replaced searchlight signals (5270) near Etiwanda Ave.
On an unrelated subject, using Google Maps I just discovered some 'disguised main track' on the Alhambra sub - the New, Industry and Marne sidings are all directly connected to each other! Also noticed that proposed grade separations on the Al sub between Fairway Drive and Brea Canyon Road are going to be challenging and especially expensive due to the proximity of the flood control channel.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
Update as of Friday, August 5, 2011:
Two Grade Separations
Part VI (of I-VI)
The Milliken Ave. Flyover
Ontario, CA
K.P. finds it difficult to believe the structure is two-tracks wide.
More assumedly concrete is being poured. The structure being built looks wide enough for two-tracks in this view, so the being built flyover is full of illusions. The flyover is right next to the present rail line.
So, there we have it. With a little construction worker input and visual views, we can discern how the flyover will be.
Finally, a side thought: Since the flyover will block the view of signals on each side for oncoming trains, K.P. wonders if railroad signals will be erected on top of the flyover ...
... as was done on the 'Up and Over" in the City of Industry.
When two-tracking come to the Milliken Ave. area, there is supposed to be a double-crossover arrangement a few miles to the east called CP VINA VISTA. So, any such signals (not that there will be) high above Milliken Ave. might fit in with the master two-tracking plan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Part V (of I-VI)
Apparently, concrete square rods are what are being driven into the ground by Milliken Ave.
One of the prolific area 18-wheelers on Guasti Rd. stops at the Milliken Ave. stoplights. The intersection is almost the truck capital of the world! Note the I-beams and metal-work that were driven into the ground by the railroad track on the west side of Milliken Ave.
Another 18-wheeler shows up with flyover parts.
The walling on the lower left of the above photo belongs to an eating establishment ... in case there might be any hungry forum visitors to the site!
That 18-wheel goes by assumedly concrete being poured into the flyover structure.
Continued in Part VI
Part IV (of I-VI)
An eastward wide angle view showing equipment driving rods deep into the ground:
A worker advised K.P. that all the concrete frame structure we are now seeing is for the flyover itself. So, there will NO shoefly, just the flyover structure being built to the south of the present single-track mainline.
In the above photo, the right-of-way is sloping downward towards the camera accounting for the structure's lowering construction.
Continued in Part V
Part III (of I-VI)
The Magnolia Ave. Underpass
Riverside, CA
The path of the east lanes will be dug out once the present Magnolia Ave. in the way (upper right) is finally closed.
Only one obstacle to documenting the location:
Continued in Part IV
Part II (of I-VI)
The underpass has had the west side lanes paved.
A construction worker said that part of the underpass should see vehicle traffic in a week. With the Magnolia Ave. grade crossing closed (see the two white autos), they will be able dig down the east lanes of the underpass.
The cross Merrill Ave. has been dug down and partially paved. The small white line of barricades (upper right) shows just how far the foreground area had to be dug down.
"Partially paved" because there is so much more to pave:
Continued in Part III
Part I (of I-VI)
The single-track shoefly (top) is almost all gone.
The track at CP C055 STREETER is now at track speed and all smoothed out and properly aligned.
In the above photo, note the Quiet Zone elevated flashing neon "X" on the upper right.
An eastward view from Brockton Ave. a block west of the underpass with the railroad bridge sides on each side of the photo.:
Continued in Part II
cacole K. P. Harrier: Now that the grading 'goof' is taken care of by Marsh Station Road in Arizona ... Didn't you report UP will lay reroute track.in November? I wonder if it will take till summer to get trains actually on the reroute. It is still unknown exactly when tracklaying is likely to commence, but the latest news on the Arizona Department of Transportation web site, which is the agency that is actually in charge of the project, indicates that the Union Pacific Railroad has submitted a bid of $4.6 million to lay the track, and that it is still scheduled for completion in FY 11. The initial plan was that the old railroad bridge over I-10 must be removed no later than December 2011, so that date seems to be still hanging over their heads. Another interesting item on the AZ DOT web site is that the Cienega Creek Project Phase III plans have been put out for bid. Phase III will involve rebuilding I-10 between the Empirita Road interchange westward toward Tucson to eliminate the constricted Cienega Creek bridge area and move the westbound lanes northward so a median can be added. That project is scheduled for completion in FY 12. Why the Empirita Road Interchange is indicated as the end point for Phase III seems strange, since approximately two miles of I-10 between Empirita Road and the old Marsh Station Road Interchange has already been completely rebuilt as part of Phase II.
K. P. Harrier: Now that the grading 'goof' is taken care of by Marsh Station Road in Arizona ... Didn't you report UP will lay reroute track.in November? I wonder if it will take till summer to get trains actually on the reroute.
Now that the grading 'goof' is taken care of by Marsh Station Road in Arizona ... Didn't you report UP will lay reroute track.in November? I wonder if it will take till summer to get trains actually on the reroute.
It is still unknown exactly when tracklaying is likely to commence, but the latest news on the Arizona Department of Transportation web site, which is the agency that is actually in charge of the project, indicates that the Union Pacific Railroad has submitted a bid of $4.6 million to lay the track, and that it is still scheduled for completion in FY 11.
The initial plan was that the old railroad bridge over I-10 must be removed no later than December 2011, so that date seems to be still hanging over their heads.
Another interesting item on the AZ DOT web site is that the Cienega Creek Project Phase III plans have been put out for bid. Phase III will involve rebuilding I-10 between the Empirita Road interchange westward toward Tucson to eliminate the constricted Cienega Creek bridge area and move the westbound lanes northward so a median can be added. That project is scheduled for completion in FY 12. Why the Empirita Road Interchange is indicated as the end point for Phase III seems strange, since approximately two miles of I-10 between Empirita Road and the old Marsh Station Road Interchange has already been completely rebuilt as part of Phase II.
I suppose that as Arizona taxpayers we should be happy that ADOT is following the rules and solicited competitive bids on the track laying. On the other hand, I can't think that anyone else would bid on it or could compete with the UP. It would be interesting to find out if there were other bids.John Timm
K. P. Harrier Now that the grading 'goof' is taken care of by Marsh Station Road in Arizona ... Didn't you report UP will lay reroute track.in November? I wonder if it will take till summer to get trains actually on the reroute.
Some Odds and Ends
Part E (of A-E)
Replies
cacole (7-23):
No. Toltec seems too far from Red Rock. I agree with you, though, that crossovers for the future Red Rock Yard might be installed with the two-tracking of the Sunset Route.
I think the area to watch is around Picacho, where the line to Phoenix branches off, and Highway 84 junctions into I-10. A post on that area is hoped to be put together soon. Obvious, it will be conjectural, but the physical evidence speaks for itself.
MikeF90 (7-27):
About Glamis, an eastward view of CP SP699 GLAMIS (M.P. 698.7) from Highway 78 taken January 30, 2010:
However, things were changed around for the new color light signals, likely for expediency.
From another angle:
The west switch Glamis (CP SP597 GLAMIS, M.P. 697.1), as you implied, is a mystery. I just wish there were public roads without fees to get close to what is out there. (See also the 8-2 reply.)
Thanks for the link for the landfill video.
cacole (7-30):
MikeF90 (8-2):
Yes, Mike, we "need a local Off Highway Vehicle enthusiast to cover some of the upcoming Yuma sub construction." I use to know someone forty years ago that was such a person, and he rented space to park two dune buggies in the Glamis area, but he is long gone. Hmmm. The lady that does my wife and I's hair goes out to Glamis ... I wonder if her husband would dune buggy me around the tracks ...
As for a long line of signals at night in Arizona ... In California, that Glamis to be exact, I've been ponder such a night photo!
In the reshown January 30, 2010 photo above (before color light signals came along), the setting sun glistens off the rails as they go west for miles and miles. A nice full moon, time lapse night shot from this location showing lit signals progressive in the background would be most stunning!
Take care, all.
K.P.
--------------
On Friday, August 5, 2011, K.P. visited both the Milliken Ave flyover construction site in Ontario, CA and the Magnolia Ave underpass site in Riverside. From worker inputs, K.P. now knows what is going on at Milliken Ave., and the physical evidence dramatically substantiates that. A photo report to the forum on both sites will be forthcoming in a few days.
Part D (of A-E)
MikeF90 (7-8/12):
Great compilation of the completed mileage of Sunset Route two-tracking! It helps us put things into perspective.
Concerning the single-track Metrolink line down the middle of I-10 Los Angeles to El Monte, yes, single-track can make do. However, if the powers that be add additional extensions (like for a line to downtown Pomona on a flyover in or near Pomona), there is no cheap way to increase capacity on a bidirectional basis down the middle of I-10.
desertdog (7-19):
No, John, I didn't check the height of any automatic absolute signal for the spur at Abbot Laboratories in Casa Grande, AZ. As it was, I was scrambling around the whole time trying to get in everything on the list.. You've got my curiosity, though, and maybe next time I'll check that out.
MikeF90 (7-21):
I think the 'south' trackage (left) WEST of Thornton Rd. (in Casa Grande) ...
... is being served only via the new track (lower center track in above photo) by Thornton Rd., an eastward view of which is below. The turnout route rails look semi-shiny, so that routing may be the answer to your question, Mike.
The big problem is that those movable frogs currently are unmarked and don't have all the customary loud warning signs yet. Trainmen must carry bulletins (in no uncertain terms!) advising them of that.
It presently might be a little bit weird to access that trackage, but it is only temporary.
The three-track railroad bridge over Highway 84 (Gila Bend Highway) is a very interesting situation, and one to watch. Thanks for pointing that one out.
Continued in Part E
Part C (of A-E)
"Unofficial" Thoughts on the "Diversion"
Pomona, CA
While the line's "entrance" signal and the below intermediate signals may be on borrowed time ...
... the long future "spur" to reach a present "spur" is not on borrowed time.
The above previously shown October 17, 2009 photo of the SP line looked eastbound towards downtown Pomona from Humane Way.
The controversy between the railroad and a pipeline outfit is ongoing and has reportedly not been settled yet, so the Diversion cannot be finished, thus the Temple Ave. and Pomona Ave. grade crossings cannot be eliminated yet
The above previously shown October 10, 2010 photo of the LA&SL / Diversion line looks westbound from Humane Way.
When the controversy is finally settled, and the Diversion is in effect and the rail line over Temple Ave. and Pomona Ave. is eliminated, it is unknown if the fourth-track will be laid then. Nor is it known how long before the second-track will be laid westward to the east switch of the Walnut siding. When everything is done UP will have a nice, multi-mile section of two-tracks on the Alhambra Sub.
Continued in Part D
Part B (of A-E)
About two-thirds of the present SP line that the Pomona Diversion will eliminate will have to remain intact to serve present freight customers. That may or may not mean a bumper post so Temple Ave. (lower part of below photo) could not be crossed unintentionally.
A short distance in the middle background of the above May 31, 2008 photo is spur trackage for shipper customers! Presently, one of those "exit" [the spur] signals (photo right), now officially called an "entrance" [to the mainline] signal, is located not too far railroad east of Temple Ave.
That area IS shipper active.
Continued in Part C
Part A (of A-E)
The Colton Signal Dept.
Colton, CA
Recently, when checking on the Colton Signal Dept. at dawn to see if anything new had presented itself, allot of 'old' signal equipment was now at the site. The big surprise, though, was the old CP box from CP AL503 MARNE X-OVER!
Months ago that CP was upgraded to color lights and the control box replaced. Why it took so long for it, and a bunch of related rubble presumably from that area, to get to Colton is unknown.
An Azusa Ave.overpasss view of when the old box (left) was operative and working in the City of Industry on June 7, 2010:
Continued in Part B
After some trip planning research, I've concluded that we need a local Off Highway Vehicle enthusiast to cover some of the upcoming Yuma sub construction. Due to drastically increased popularity of the Imperial Dunes area, the BLM requires a significant fee (link here) to enter the area; it extends from just east of Ogilby Road west to about MP 678.
Another thought - the Gila sub between CP Bon and Picacho Jct seems to have been surveyed with a long chalk line. When all of these new LED equipped signals are operational and lit up in that flat terrain, it could be a unique night photographic opportunity.
doghouse (8-2):
Interesting point!
It is known that cement was often poured in layers in that era. The fact, though, that underneath the arches are even cement spacing of the strips gives evidence of the correctness of your post.
Thanks for the input ... Excellent observation!
K. P. Harrier The Jewel of the LA&SL! Part D (of A-E) Up close, the bridge construction looks crude, showing cement poured in layers. The Viaduct looks rather ancient, though impressive. A south side ground view looking westbound.
The Jewel of the LA&SL!
Up close, the bridge construction looks crude, showing cement poured in layers. The Viaduct looks rather ancient, though impressive.
A south side ground view looking westbound.
That 'layered' look is from the wooden forms used when the bridge was constructed.
Visiting the Viaduct
The Viaduct is broadly located in the midst of a large semi-triangle of I-15, Highway 91, and Highway 60.
A link to a MapQuest aerial of the Viaduct is below. It can be moved around to see the area.
http://mapq.st/ofqL4H
There is free public parking for hikers and bicyclists (and visitors like railfans) east of the Viaduct all along kind of a path to the structure. Access to that parking is off Jurupa Ave. in Riverside (slide-move the aerial southeastward to see Jurupa Ave.)
Walking down to underneath the Viaduct is only a quarter to half a mile.
It is a great place to visit and something the whole family can enjoy (especially a traveling family that likely has no interest in trains but has been cooped up in an auto for hours). A little hike and exercise to limber up may be welcome by such a family. And, of course, the railfan(s) among the family would have the extra treat of an active railroad over a huge, visually stunning viaduct structure to marvel at.
Whether you are a local or from out of town, the Viaduct is well worth taking the time to visit.
Safe areas for anyone (like maintenance-of-way) on the Viaduct when a train passes ...
Under an arching:
The Viaduct is single-track, and building another structure for a second-track is highly unlikely. The whopping amount of money needed for a second bridge would probably be put into triple-tracking the SP Alhambra Sub instead from Pomona to West Colton Yard, but, that is a personal opinion.
So, there you have it, one of the most impressive railroad bridges in Southern California. For almost a century the bridge was host to only LA&SL (UP) trains. With the SP-UP merger 90 plus years after the Viaduct's building, Sunset Route trains started traversing it. Now, the structure is approaching 108 years old!
If you see a Sunset Route train passing by in Arizona or New Mexico (or Texas, etc.), it MAY have gone over or MAY be on its way to go over that viaduct. Ultimately, the Corridor Manager decides the routing of trains, whether they will go via West Colton Yard (SP) or over the Viaduct (LA&SL), so nothing is definite. But there is a medium change the Viaduct has or will be involved with any particular train.
The location trackage (from east to west) ...
Two Los Angeles & Salt Lake (LA&SL, now UP) mains from Riverside end at CP C053 ARLINGTON, the east signals of which are on a cantilever structure.
The west signal of CP ARLINGTON:
Then, immediately west, is the Viaduct. The below westward view is from the northeast side. The track curves (freight cars visible on left background) and follows the river briefly ...
... then, crosses Clay Street a few miles to the west...
... before arriving at the beginning of two-tracks westward at Limonite Ave. and the Metrolink stop, at CP C050 LIMONITE.
The eastern end of the Viaduct is in a dramatic setting of huge boulders and rocks.
In all of Southern California there is nothing quite like it, a bridging that for years K.P. has simply called "The Viaduct." There is plenty of reference material that substantiates the use of that expression.
The bridge itself was at one time easily accessible from the southeast, but Union Pacific built a facility in that segment, and for a number of years now the Viaduct has been rather inaccessible. However, in recent times, public interest groups created the "Santa Ana River Trail" for bicycling and hiking. It is a work in progress, and eventually will encompass a 110-mile path from Big Bear (high up in the San Bernardino Mountains) to the Pacific Ocean (with the river mouth between Huntington and Newport Beaches). In the above photo, the trail is visible on lower part.
The trail goes under the viaduct on the eastern end of the huge structure. A northeastward view:
At This Point ...
It looks like "The Jewel of the LA&SL" series will be posted Monday morning, August 1, 2011.
If you did not know that you can legally walk underneath the above structure, but happen to like impressive railroad bridges, the series may be for you.
Off Topic but Semi-Connected ...
From Roseville in Northern California a particular train was headed southward towards the West Colton Yard in Southern California. The below photo shows the slow, downhill route (upper track on upper left) for getting onto the Sunset Route for the last several miles till the train ties up in the Receiving Yard.
Unfortunate, the train mentioned above tied up many hours late. "The train" was NOT the complete train, as it had derailed and piled up east (south) of Palmdale, in Littlerock, CA, on the Palmdale Cutoff.
If any would like to see photos of that accident that were posted about in another thread, the below TRAINS link is provided, but because it is an internal Kalmbach post link (which types don't seem to work anymore), you will have to highlight it, copy, paste in the http line, and hit 'Enter.'
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/194839.aspx
A Quick Reply
desertdog (7-29):
Thanks, John. I got the picture very well with your Ferrum comparison.
It seemed strange at photo time that an SP branch track would be right alongside the Sunset Route. The information that it was a completely separate railroad made sense of that. (I also feel kind of dumb!)
Thanks, too, for the Tucson tie plant posts. We always see concrete ties in place along the Sunset Route and don't think much about where they came from. Your visuals added life to the 'concrete ties' that we see so often.
To Others:
Again, a backlog of replies is pending. Now that the "Out of the Blue" series is over, some time for replies should be available soon ...
Take care all,
John, "HEE-lah" is closer to the original Spanish pronunciation. "Hee-lah Monster" for example.
The Spanish language rarely begins words with a hard "G"; it's mostly just those followed by a "u" -- "Guera" (female blonde) is pronounced "GWER-ah" but not the word for person -- Gente -- ("HEN-tay").
Keep up the good work! Love those photos. -- al
K. P. Harrier Out of the Blue: From California to Arizona and Back Part VI, Section H (of A-G) Gila Bend, AZ Gila Bend (oddly pronounced HEE-lah Bend) is an old fashion, archaic town, and except for modern autos and trucks, and occasional C45AC's and SD70M's, one would swear they had been transported back in time with a time machine! There is a water tower, and old target signals with horizontal number plates. Also, an old very nearby branch line yard-like trackage is being overgrown with weeds ... ... and which line at the grade crossing the rails were recently paved over, but no one removed warning crossbucks ... Fencing is crude. It is unknown if these flasher heads fell through the fence or were merely conveniently laid on the ground. When two-tracking comes to Gila Bend, the townspeople with little to entertain themselves with may not know how to react, and come out to watch. Trackside may then have MORE than an occasional railfan with a camera in the sweltering heat! But, after a few moments, well, they may return to the shelter of an air conditions living room ... In talking with a few two-tracking workers in a less laid back Casa Grande where two-tracking WAS a progress, they said the heat didn't bother them. They were probably just happy to have a job, and being able to pocket a small portion of the $2 billion needed to two-track the Sunset Route between El Paso and Los Angeles! With that said, this will end the "Out of the Blue" series.
Out of the Blue: From California to Arizona and Back
Part VI, Section H (of A-G)
Gila Bend, AZ
Gila Bend (oddly pronounced HEE-lah Bend) is an old fashion, archaic town, and except for modern autos and trucks, and occasional C45AC's and SD70M's, one would swear they had been transported back in time with a time machine!
There is a water tower, and old target signals with horizontal number plates.
Also, an old very nearby branch line yard-like trackage is being overgrown with weeds ...
... and which line at the grade crossing the rails were recently paved over, but no one removed warning crossbucks ...
Fencing is crude. It is unknown if these flasher heads fell through the fence or were merely conveniently laid on the ground.
When two-tracking comes to Gila Bend, the townspeople with little to entertain themselves with may not know how to react, and come out to watch. Trackside may then have MORE than an occasional railfan with a camera in the sweltering heat! But, after a few moments, well, they may return to the shelter of an air conditions living room ...
In talking with a few two-tracking workers in a less laid back Casa Grande where two-tracking WAS a progress, they said the heat didn't bother them. They were probably just happy to have a job, and being able to pocket a small portion of the $2 billion needed to two-track the Sunset Route between El Paso and Los Angeles!
With that said, this will end the "Out of the Blue" series.
K.P.,
You were looking at the lead to the Tucson, Cornelia and Gila Bend Railroad that was built to serve the once-extensive copper mining industry in Cornelia, about 40 miles to the south. It has been dormant since the mid 1980's, awaiting the possible re-opening of the mines at some future date. In that respect it is not unlike the Eagle Mountain Railroad railroad that ran from the Kaiser iron mines at Eagle Mountain and joined the Sunset at Ferrum, CA. It is also largely intact but went dormant at about the same time as the T.C. & G.B.
John Timm
Part VI, Section G (of A-H)
Dateland, AZ
Along I-8 is the small area known as Dateland. It is kind of one of those oasis areas in the middle of nowhere. It has an interesting look and atmosphere about it, with a bunch of grouped trees.
In the last photo above, the Sunset Route is where the far background poles are at on the left. The trees on the right are conspicuous as there is little grouped greenery along the Sunset Route.
The main point related to our theme, though, is that intermediate signals in Arizona generally have old, horizontal number plates ...
... whereas in California such old signals are having the horizontal plates converted to vertical ones, as the new color light signal installations have. (See the first photo in Part IV, Section E)
Continued in Section H
Part VI, Section F (of A-H)
The Araz, CA Area
West of the new CP SP723 ARAZ, by Sidewinder Rd., is a fenced signal dept. yard. Last year, the whole facility area had materials, numerous containers, and truck trailers parked thereat. There were even buses to transport workers (photo unseen).
But, now that the section of two-tracking west of CP SP723 ARAZ has been completed, the facility was thinned out considerably and lacked all the containers and truck trailers. A few, yes. But, there was not the overwhelming presence of them as before.
Continued in Section G
Part VI, Section E (of A-H)
To the west of CP SP723 ARAZ is a new two-track section, and to the east of CP SP725 renamed ARAZ JCT (formally ARAZ) is an old two-track section eastwardly. Between the new CP SP723 ARAZ and the old CP SP725 ARAZ JCT is a very short stretch of single-track. Likely, because of the mountainous nature of the section, it may ("may") be one of the last sections to be two-tracked.
Reportedly the entire remaining 40% of the Sunset Route will be two-tracked in the next couple of years. (K.P. will believe that when he sees it!) So, in theory, the pictured area above could see two-tracks in the next few years.
On a humorous note, the first picture of the three above shows a lead GE locomotive approaching. K.P. just about had a heart attack at what happened seconds later. The engineer's darkly tinted window was open, and instead of brandishing some bazooka, the engineer simply gave a nice friendly wave to K.P.! Wow! Was that an exception, or are trainmen starting to see railfans as friends like they did many years ago?
Continued in Section F
Part VI, Section D (of A-H)
The Main 2 Rerouted Reroute by Marsh Station Road in Arizona
In 2008 BNSF in Cajon Pass of California had new grading done for adding a third Main. But, that grading deteriorated mildly, but contractors fixed it (and used mulch or other green soil spraying after redoing embankments), and no further problems have been seen by K.P. A July 21, 2011 Cajon Pass view:
Another view: UP Palmdale Cutoff (Main and siding) is the top trackage, BNSF Mains 1 and 2 underneath that, and on the bottom BNSF Main 3.
The Arizona Marsh Station Rd. area grading looks worse than whatever K.P. observed in Cajon Pass a few years ago. Contractors should be able to work miracles like what was done in Cajon Pass.
Continued in Section E
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.