Thanks for the info. I had forgotten that the Douglas segment of the line was not included in the sale. Would still like to know what UP is up to. It's sort of like the west end of the Phoenix Sub--tantalizing.
John Timm
Update as of Monday, January 26, 2015
The Colton Area
Colton, CA
Due to an unexpected matter, K.P. was in San Bernardino the evening of the above date. And, of course, he did a little snooping in the nearby Colton area.
The barbed-wire, fenced Colton Signal Dept. still had the six rotting away boxes on site, which are possibly parts for the remaining six of eleven switches to be installed at the future CP AL514 HAMILTON in Pomona.
A sole, rather pristine, wood parts crate by the back fence was on site, for an unknown installation location.
The Colton Signal Dept. area was visited at dusk, with lowering light, but the place was well lit up.
Also visited was the Highgrove area on the BNSF, but that big pile of ballast between BNSF Main 3 and the branch to San Jacinto seemed untouched. It was too dark with insufficient lighting for photographs. A previous photograph of that pile of ballast:
A visit after Highgrove was made to the nearby Departure Yard area of West Colton Yard. A northwest view of that Departure Yard area with a bunch of ballast on site:
This will end the update, but some possibilities are pending reference Red Rock and West Colton yards. Some replies are also pending, including material on the Mesquite landfill site.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
This reply post was held up because the TRAINS Magazine forum posting program seemingly has TWO incompatible functions (linking and diagramming), which either one apparently cannot be in the same post as the other function. Thus, to get around that problem, three separate, appendix-type posts (A-C) are below this one.
Electroliner 1935 (1-25 / 1-28):
It is questionable whether anyone here at the forum would have an authoritative answer to your inquiry, but in view of the out in the boonies nature of the area, my guess is that water is well-pumped.
In the below July 12, 2011 telephoto, the facility’s trackage goes over a two-waterway cement canaling:
The left canal opens to the desert the camera side of the two-track bridge, and that canal seems to act as a general runoff steering mechanism. The right canaling seems to be for the facility. Undoubtedly, that water would be treated to neutralize contaminants. The treated water from hosing down of the trash cars would run down the canal to a location this side of the bridge (above photo), where it would likely seep back into the earth or simply evaporate and disappear. (See the Appendix Item A post after one)
Now, about the railroad part of your inquiry, the track from the landfill site that connects to the Sunset Route … That connection, from the best that I can determine, HAS BEEN (past tense) the EAST future crossover switch on the southern Main 2 side. If I understood Clyde Acolita’s January 19, 2015 post correctly, the north side Main 1 switch is now in place so there is a complete universal crossover arrangement. The track from the landfill site curve-connects onto the EAST side of the CP, to Main 1. Thus, when two-tracking sometime in the future continues east, a left handed switch would have to be inserted into that curving to the landfill site. (See diagram in Appendix Item B)
As far as when the Mesquite landfill site will open, there have been delays supposedly because of the economy and the reduction of trash generated in the Los Angeles Basin. I guess a mass amount of people in the Los Angeles Basic have gone to Mars for an extended out of this world vacation, and until they get back, there will be insufficient trash to warrant operating the Mesquite landfill site. Seriously, the whole thing sounds strange to me. (See Appendix Item C)
Anyway, Electroliner 1935, it is hoped the above (and appendixes below) is correct (I have not been to the area to verify the diagram, which area is probably inaccessible to non-railroaders and non-landfill employees), and that this post (and its appendixes) sufficiently answers your inquiries.
Take care,
K.P.
Appendix Item “A” to Above Post to Electroliner 1935
LINK: Aerial of site
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Glamis,+California+92227/@33.0271319,-115.0179865,403m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x80d723418c9e1ffd:0x3362ed95a1f6c505
Appendix Item “B” to Above Post to Electroliner 1935
Diagram of trackage:
.
CP SP697 MESQUITE
Landfill Track -------- / / /Main 1 / Future Main 1---------------------- - - - - - - \ /Main 2 \ / Main---------------------------------------- \ \ Siding -------------
Appendix Item “C” to Above Post to Electroliner 1935
LINK: Comment from landfill site owner
http://www.mrlf.org/index.php?build=view&idr=205&page2=&pid=32
http://www.mrlf.org/Media/Const.pic4website-007a.jpg
November 2006The roof was installed on the 2 million-gallon water storage tank for the Mesquite Regional Landfill. The water is pumped from wells the landfill shares with the Mesquite Mine and is used primarily for dust control at the site.
In Lieu of Building Red Rock Yard, Could the Land-Locked West Colton Yard Be Made Twice as Productive?
If (“if”) UP decided NOT to build a classification yard at Red Rock, AZ, which was planned as an eastbound counterpart to the future westbound arrangement at West Colton Yard, Colton, CA, is it possible West Colton Yard could be revamped again and be twice as productive?
In the past, K.P. has heard that West Colton Yard humps about 1800 cars a day. He has also heard that the plan was to have the future Red Rock Yard hump 900 eastbound cars, and West Colton Yard 900 westbound cars. So, to not build a yard at Red Rock will NOT be a problem per se, because West Colton Yard is doing the planned output already.
In K.P.’s opinion five key aspects modified would do the trick.
(1) Use 209 (the southernmost receiving yard track) as the humping push track.
(2) Modify the Sierra Ave. bridge for laying an additional track (for hump pushing)
(3) Extend westward a switchless Track 209 to at least Sierra Ave., likely farther.
(4) Build a cheap flyover over the hump track west of Cedar Ave. in order to get Receiving Yard power to the roundhouse instead of via 209. Hump yards commonly have such, sometimes over or under the hump tracks. Bailey Yard in North Plate, NE has one. (See Appendix #1, next post)
(5) Add a few more departure tracks.
In the last item above (5), the arrangement is very different from when the yard was first opened in 1973. There are only four departure tracks now …
… whose west lead dead-ends! (See Appendix #2) In Southern Pacific days, most of the Departure Tracks extended west into the bowl. But, UP changed that after the merger!
Related … On the surprise outing the evening of Monday, January 26, 2015, just a few days ago, photos were taken of what is generally understood to be the Departure Yard, in a rather wet environment. From Pepper Ave., looking east:
Just above, rain started to come down on an already very wet yard. Was K.P. crazy trying to shoot photos in the rain?
Looking west, now from inside a vehicle’s dry interior:
With Red Rock Yard’s / West Colton Yard’s future happenings unknown, like desertdog said so well in his post earlier today, all this is ‘food for thought.’
But, the relatively new two-track CP SP952 RED ROCK (M.P. 952.0) …
… that has slower 30 crossovers (between Mains 1 and 2, as well as to the Red Rock siding) shows UP’s intentions long term, i.e., the master plan is for a Red Rock Yard. But, if (“if”) the crossovers are ever taken out or 50 M.P.H. turnouts someday replace the 30 M.P.H. ones, in K.P.’s opinion, that would be a sure sign that Red Rock Yard will never happen.
Appendix #1
LINK OF: The rail underpass at Bailey Yard in North Plate, NE
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.1484282,-100.8467007,362m/data=!3m1!1e3
Appendix #2
LINK OF: The western dead-end of West Colton Yard’s Departure Tracks: The four-tracks (lower right, light gray ballasted) all come together and single-track stub-end (upper left)
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0653181,-117.3871275,199m/data=!3m1!1e3
desertdog The Red Rock Yard project in AZ is conspicuous by its absence.
The Red Rock Yard project in AZ is conspicuous by its absence.
I thought the same, but then noticed that the new yard at Santa Theresa was also missing. Granted, ST's open already, but there's no red star west of El Paso to show it as a terminal.
Maybe it's just the audience -- if they're mostly contractors from the Midwest, they don't really care about anything west of the Rio Grande.
E
K.P.:
Please forgive this unrelated question: is "Concrete Mountain" at West Colton quickly disappearing?
Your night shot of the balloon track shows a profile of the mountain. It seems to have been shaved-down quite a bit since you posted some photos of it last year. Is there increased demand for concrete in the Inland Empire these days. I have seen the extensive trackage around the concrete plant on Google Earth; does it rate as a good customer for UP?
John
John Simpkins-Camp K.P.: Please forgive this unrelated question: is "Concrete Mountain" at West Colton quickly disappearing? Your night shot of the balloon track shows a profile of the mountain. It seems to have been shaved-down quite a bit since you posted some photos of it last year. Is there increased demand for concrete in the Inland Empire these days. I have seen the extensive trackage around the concrete plant on Google Earth; does it rate as a good customer for UP? John
Yes, Concretia the dwindling mountain that can be seen at the east end of the former SP Colton yard is disappearing, slowly but surely. The plant hasn't been as busy as it has in the past. There's no shortage of need for concrete in the Inland Empire. Of course there's no shortage of cement plants either. Three of them in the High Desert and the one in Colton, Ca..
I remember when it looked like a large Hershey's Chocolate Drop. Now how about a small wedding cake. It won't be to many years in the future and the mountain will most likely become a open pit quarry. That should shake up the green minded ones.
So, K.P. what's up with the pictures. I keep getting a box with some sort of invitation to PhotoBucket. Click on it and you have to download a repair of some sort. Think someone if not both of us are being hijacked. Just curious and thought you might want to know.
RickH
BarstowRick.com Model Railroading How To's
Rick:
Thanks for your observations! It seems that the shape and size of the mountain corresponds to the type of UP diesels in Colton photos over the years.
Your comments about cement-making plants in San Bernardino Co are apprecciated-- I have included one on my N-Scale High Desert layout.
There's already an open pit on the east side of Slover mountain. I'll take a pic next time I'm out there - from Pepper I compare the top with the power line poles and thus far haven't noted any dramatic changes. I was under the impression that the Colton plant wasn't producing powdered cement any more and wouldn't after the public bought the Prop. 32 sales pitch. Riverside ave. : I didn't see any bridge saddles on the north side (dodging mixers and driving on the sidewalk). Metrolink Connector: filled in along SB sub mainlines, cut still dammed to prevent run-off from flowing onto BNSF tracks.
A10
A Quick Few Out of Order Replies
BarstowRick (1-31):
You may not believe this but because so many view this thread the ‘bandwidth’ of my photobucket.com account gets exceeded. Arrangements were made in the past so that a very modest photobucket.com fee was taken care of each month. On January 1, 2015 that arrangement expired. It was felt that the trainsmag.com website had been so screwy of late that a lot of viewers went elsewhere; thus, the monthly photobucket.com fee was not renewed, and it resorted back to the free account. But, to my surprise, the free account bandwidth WAS exceeded, so you saw those little boxes instead of photos. But, anyway, that fee has been taken care of again, and YOU get to see the photos again.
John Simpkins-Camp (1-30):
You surprised me with your inquiry about the ‘Cement Mountain’ in Colton (CA), but you had a valid point that got my curiosity!
Necessity brought me to both the Perris and San Diego areas, and on the way back I stopped in Colton in darkening light to check on that ‘Cement Mountain.’ In person the mountain looked very different than that posted photo made it look like. Nevertheless, a number of photos were taken of that mountain, and it is hoped a post in a few days with some of those photos will convey to you what is actually there.
To All:
On that trip to and from San Diego, the San Diego Trolley and the Perris Valley Line was photographed a bit. In Perris, north of Nuevo Ave., tie parts for a future dual-control switch is present now. Those switch parts seem as those UP uses on the Sunset Route, concrete ties, with a stenciled number on each tie. It is unknown if it was just a fluke, a new trend, or something else, but one of those ties’ stenciled number was “0” (zero).
Just thought you would like to know!
In the next week the San Diego Trolley and Perris Valley Line threads will be worked on for new presentations, as well as that ‘Cement Mountain’ material for John Simpkins-Camp. It so happened that an eastbound train that was going by that ‘Cement Mountain’ on the Sunset Route was a military train movement! It made for a different view than normally seen by that ‘Cement Mountain.’
Best,
K.P. I wasn't aware you had to pay a fee for PhotoBucket. They advertise free use but like you said for a limited number of pictures. Anyway the older posts still have the small square in place of the pictures and the new ones you posted are coming through. Modern technology can be so frustrating. Seems to me you should be able to post pictures directly from your photo library in your computer. I do that all the time on another Train Website. Although it leaves a little to be desired. Still you can click on them and up comes a pretty decent picture. Just my two cents.
John, With regard to the disappearing mountain. I haven't seen any action of late but that doesn't mean they aren't working on it from the blind side.
RickH.
Good news as it pertains to the UP Alhambra Sub in El Monte -- the Baldwin Avenue underpass has been completed:
http://www.sgvtribune.com/general-news/20150124/underpass-railroad-bridge-completed-at-baldwin-avenue-in-el-monte
All:
My sincere thanks to you for all your info on Concrete Mountain, or Concretia. It is pleasant to know that my odd curiosities can lead to meaningful discussion and sharing of info!! As there are lots of photos from this location (KP's and others), I have noticed the mountain's profile change over time, but it looked REALLY different in those recent pics.
K.P., I too did not know that your efforts included having to pay a fee to Photobucket. Count me in for a contribution-- your work is so enjoyable!
On your Perris Valley Line Update, K.P., you had a cool link for a drone flyover video of some of the progress there. I jokingly said there that we should pitch in and get you a drone for your documentiation-- any consideration?
Thank you!
‘Cement Mountain’ and Illusions
The below eastward looking photo of a rain soaked West Colton Yard Departure Yard area (Colton, CA) was posted a few days ago. Some thought that the background mountain on the right looked much lower than it had been in years past.
Locals call it ‘Cement Mountain.” K.P. returned to check Cement Mountain out Saturday, January 31, 2015, and concluded its lowness was only an illusion.
In the above photo, a military unit train of sorts passes eastbound (leftward).
Certain views and angles do have a lower mountain look.
In that second from the top photo, the foreground portion of the mountain has been chipped down considerably. When on site, that lower mountain area looks quite prominent.
It is difficult for K.P. to be objective about the mountain’s height, as he has lived with it virtually all his life and the gradual changes aren’t really perceived. Someone that hasn’t seen it for fifty years, however, would be shocked at its lowness now, and is more likely to be objective.
When K.P. was in elementary school fifty years ago a male teacher told the class that “Cement Mountain” had five times the mountain’s height in cement below ground level. So, the mountain, a future pit, could produce cement for centuries.
Aerials of the site show trackage kind of semi-covered with rain runoff mud. But yet those aerials show cement hauling railcars on site. So, it is difficult to make an assessment of the mountain’s current status, if it is active or not railroad-wise. But, much activity on the mountain has been seen over the years. It just may be that the railroads aren’t used anymore for transporting the cement production.
Years ago the Santa Fe’s east side connection to “Cement Mountain” was pulled up, so the shipment of cement by rail does not seem to be prominent anymore, if it even exists now.
“Cement Mountain” is also known as “Slover Mountain.” Officially, it is Slover Mountain, but locals often just call it Cement Mountain.
The next post’s Appendix link is a Cal-Portland article about the retirement of the giant ‘Old Glory’ flag that flew atop the mountain for years
Slover Ave. used to extend from the mountain, now only from east of Riverside Ave., all the way west to Etiwanda Ave. in the Fontana-Ontario area.
Appendix Post link about Cement (Slover) Mountain and Old Glory:
http://www.calportland.com/news.aspx?news=56&page=1
Wow. Thanks for your reply(s). A very comprehensive reponse and very appreciated. You have the good fortune to be in an area where rail use is growing and constuctuon of new facilities is underway. So different than when the old interurban lines were being removed and double track rail lines being reduce to single track.
As Confucius allegedly said, May you live in interesting times" I think we are.
Again, Thanks.
Wow. Thanks for your reply(s). A very comprehensive reponse and very appreciated. You have the good fortune to be in an area where rail use is growing and constuctuon of new facilities is underway. So different than when the old interurban lines were being removed and double track rail lines being reduced to single track.
Current status of the Colton cement plant remains as stated in K.P.'s link above: "The extended economic downturn has required the company to mothball the cement plant operations and continue to only operate the facility as a cement terminal and aggregate facility". Carload cement is brought in, shipped out in trucks. Non-cement material is crushed for various construction uses. It appears from one of the latest pictures posted that aggregate mining has moved around to the west side of the top. The pit on the east side has been partially refilled to create a deck for the gravel crushing and screening plant, the pit on the south side of the mountain being deepest now. Elevations for comparison: RR tracks at Rancho overpass 1004', Top of mountain where the flag pole was 1162', south pit 854', unloading track at unloading point 944', Pepper overpass at south end of bridge 1046'.
K.P. and Friends:
Thanks for all your input on Colton's "Cement Mountain"!!
I enjoyed the link to the CalPortland release about the ritiring of the flag due to "costs". There was one interesting photo of the ceremony attop the hill looking SW over an undeveloped area south of West Colton Yard. It got me looking for a photo on the web that might show the yard from that high vantage point.
I have yet to find such a photo and would welcome any leads from members of the forum.
There are links to a dozen or so articles about the mountain, but one of the most interesting (VERY!) is from the Los Angeles Times:
http://articles.latimes.com/2002/may/09/news/surround-09
I hope someone out there in Sunset Route Two-Tracking Land finds it enjoyable.
Thanks!
Found an interesting planning summary that addresses proposed improvements along the Sunset Route in the El Paso area. In particular, note page 12 of 14 that suggests a schedule for double tracking of the El Paso to Sierra Blanca stretch:
http://www.elpasompo.org/TPB%20Items/2014/12-05-14/Item10.pdf
Replies
MikeF90 (1-28):
That was interesting news that the Cherry Ave. overpass construction in Fontana (CA) is finished. Unfortunately, one has to park a half a mile to a mile away to hike up on it! One of these days I might brave the hike …
When one looks at the Alhambra Sub as a whole, there sure is a lot of two-tracking on hold! The ‘Up and Over’ in the Puente area …
Above view from November 6, 2010 … Note the ties up the ‘Up and Over’ before they were shipped elsewhere.
March 17, 2011
… the Diversion in Pomona, and between Ontario and Fontana come to mind I guess UP feels NO pressure because another track is available via the LA&SL through Riverside. And, of course, there is that Montclair facility that additional tracks need to be laid in.
I wonder if part of the seemingly eternal delays for the two-tracking on the Alhambra Sub in California is because of land purchase issues in Red Rock, AZ for the projected Red Rock Yard. If UP had to, they could just pull off a few tricks at West Colton Yard, and Arizona would be left saying, “We shouldn’t have waited so long!” It is possible (“possible”) that the CP’s and crossover locations would be different on the Alhambra Sub depending on whether or not Red Rock Yard is built. It would be expensive to modify the relatively new CP SP952 RED ROCK that currently has slow 30 M.P.H. crossovers, and maybe UP does not want to have to modify anything else, so is making sure of things in Red Rock before doing much on the Alhambra Sub in California, hence (conjecturally), the delays. Delay, delay, delays. What’s new?
desertdog (1-28):
I can’t imagine an industrial complex by the border would inspire UP to purchase back the old Southern Pacific EP&SW right-of-way for miles and miles and miles. It is possible, but I find the idea somewhat farfetched. I wonder if coal fields have been found or great oil reserves uncovered, and everything is being kept under taps for now. What about shale? Something has to be so lucrative that a railroad would look into getting in on the action!
Replies continued.
Replies Continued …
rdamon (1-29):
Great find about the Mesquite landfill facility down by Glamis, CA, and the well pumping of water into a large storage tank.
mvs (2-1):
About that Baldwin Ave. underpass in El Monte (CA) now being open for vehicle traffic … Man, time flies!
Currently, aerials show the shoofly, and a bridging being constructed for two-tracks, i.e., the Main and the El Monte north side siding:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Baldwin+Ave,+El+Monte,+CA/@34.0836192,-118.0521518,199m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x80c2d09d2ae3e84f:0x43207127c2fc10ae
How that arrangement will mesh with the San Gabriel Trench construction’s end product just a few miles to the west is yet to be seen, and one I’m anxious to see.
John Simpkins-Camp (2-4):
Over 45 years ago a thesis on the history of Colton was stumbled upon in a library, which thesis I read avidly seeing that an integral part of the town’s history involved the Sunset Route. I learned back then from that thesis that the community of Colton was named after David Douty Colton who was a Vice President of the Southern Pacific
I don’t recall much from that thesis about Slover (or Cement) Mountain, but I do remember Mr. Colton’s mention often. There were other prominent persons of the 1870’s that that thesis covered in depth, and once years ago while walking around Hermosa Cemetery on the west side of Colton, I saw a few of the grave markers (more like edifices) of those prominent ones that I had read about in that thesis!
Back then Southern Pacific was a small railroad compared to today’s mega-railroads. So, to name a new town after a railroad official was quite likely. Such is very unlikely today, and naming new classification yards after CEO’s or vice presents is possible. If Red Rock Yard ever comes to fruition, I wonder if it will be named after someone or if UP will just go with Red Rock.
Take care all,
Cherry avenue overpass as in Milliken ? Both RRs that cross Cherry go under ...
SP657E44 (2-7):
You stated:
SP657E44 Cherry avenue overpass as in Milliken ? Both RRs that cross Cherry go under ... A10
At both grade separations at Cherry Ave. in Fontana. CA (UP Sunset Route and Metrolink commuter line) the vehicle roadways go over the tracks that remain at ground level. The Flyover at Milliken Ave. in Ontario (commonly referred to as the ‘north Milliken Ave.’ grade separation by SANBAG) the present single-track mainline (future two-tracks) elevates over Milliken Ave. Outside of that, it was not clear (at least to me) what you were inquiring about or trying to say.
About Upcoming Posting Reports Next Week
In response of recent forum discussion at this thread, after an assignment in San Bernardino (CA) Friday, February 6, 2015, K.P. more thoroughly checked out ‘Cement Mountain’ in Colton, which mountain is also known as Slover Mountain. It was found that the California Portland complex there is more humongous and massive than K.P. ever thought it was (if it is all under one company). Broader views of the complex were photo-obtained, including railcars on site and the old Santa Fe spur line to it. In light of Cement Mountain’s proximity to the Sunset Route and its historic relevance to it as a shipping customer in the past, a photo report will be forthcoming next week as time permits. Also visited that day was the Laurel Ave. underpass construction in Colton, on the BNSF that the LA&SL has trackage rights on and is in close proximity to the Sunset Route. A narrow (“narrow”) shoofly was finally started and was being worked on when K.P. shot some photos onsite.
The next day, Saturday, February 7, just for fun this time, K.P. traveled to the Los Angeles area and checked out the San Gabriel Trench construction. Not a whole lot was different, but the future (“future”) side walling had much cement filled rebar vertical columns buried! The San Gabriel Trench too will be posted about next week.
Stay safe,
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