Thank you KP, for the trip down memory lane. In the early 70's, when I was first stationed at Norton, the railroad still went down the side of Mill St to the warehouses on Norton Air Force Base and the base had blue AF center cab diesel switchers. The line through the base golf course and across the river to the southern California Edison power plant was abandoned with only that truss bridge remaining. I see from Google Earth that the place where we 'cold warriers' from the U.S. Air Force Ballistic Missile Office played golf, is now a huge Amazon warehouse complex. So in this case swords were beaten into e-commerce.
Grinnell
Fred M Cain Is there any recent news on the fate of the West Phoenix Line? Regards, Fred M. Cain
Is there any recent news on the fate of the West Phoenix Line?
Regards,
Fred M. Cain
Hi Fred,
I wouldn't call this "news," per se, but yesterday on the way to the NASCAR race at Phoenix International Raceway, I saw a unit grain train parked on the Phoenix Sub just west of the Goodyear Airport. There was one unit on the east end of the train, possibly a DPU. We had to turn before I could see what, if any, power was on the west end. Interestingly, the searchlight signal at about mid-train was operating and showing a red indication. The searchlight to the east was also lit, showing a green indication. The fact that they have not scrapped the signals along the route gives me hope that the line may be even more active in the future.
John Timm
desertdog ... snip ... The fact that they have not scrapped the signals along the route gives me hope that the line may be even more active in the future. John Timm
To add some more 'railfan rumor' content from this non-local, I've read posts elsewhere that the sub west to the Palo Verde plant junction has been refurbished recently. The grain was probably bound for an active (and expanding) poultry operation near SR-85. UP may be counting on their business growing in this part of the Phoenix area. West of the nuke plant thieves have stolen pretty much everything except the rails so the line will be 'dark' without unlikely major investment.
Judging from ATCSmon and the scanner, the Yuma area is still pretty plugged up. I've heard HOS crew changes near CP Araz (Sidewinder Rd) and CP Fortuna (Ave 9E); I'm betting that dirt will fly at the very west end of the Gila sub sooner than later. Got my 'dozer runnin' ...
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
Simplified answer: the bridge is at Blue Cut.
A10
Replies
Fred M. Cain (11-10)
Hi Fred!
No, I haven’t heard anything about opening the West Phoenix Line.
It looks like you are relatively new to this forum. Thus, you might be interest in some coverage posted in this thread some time back, and the deplorable situation that line is in now.
LINK: http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/120779.aspx?page=85#2242694
[Well, I thought it was a link. Just copy and paste into your browser.]
That line is not abandoned, just officially out of service. The block signals on the line are gone, but the grade crossing gates and flashers are still up, and presumably work.
It you go to the above link, enjoy!
grinnell (11-10):
Swords into e-commence! Funny …
I remember those little blue center cab switch engines at Norton Air Force Base. I remember too taking bus #4 on a school field trip to Norton and I saw those center cab switch engines relatively close up from the bus windows. It is strange how we remember certain details decades later.
I guess the post was more down Memory Lane for you than I thought it would be.
SP657E44 (11-10):
I disagree about the Cajon Pass bridge photo being taken at Blue Cut, if we are thinking about the same photo.
The photo in question, at least the one I’m thinking of, has a top showing NO background mountains, whereas anybody familiar with Blue Cut will readily agree high mountains are all around it.
Best,
K.P.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Where then was it taken ? Two key elements are the depth of the creek and the location it was photographed from. The photos you posted do not show much above to track to prove otherwise. The only straight cut (pictured in that set)on the pass is the one at Gish but shows a longer bridge, east of the long cut.There are several other Fred Perris pictures in the collection list as Cajon but two are in Arizona. There was no railroad through before the California Southern nor did they name a station after an as-yet unborn future starlet.
Note to MikeF90:
In response to an uninformed speculation that UP would curtail double-tracking on the Sunset route, you suggested (correctly, one believes) that the work would continue. In UP's Investor Day (11/5/2014) presentation (UP website/Investors), UP COO Lantz Fitz unequivocally shows ("Capital Plan -- Next Five Years" Slide 6) that double-tracking work will continue not just on the Yuma and Gila subs, but between El Paso and Sierra Blanca as well. For my money, this validates your suggestion in spades. Interestingly, the slide does not project any work on the proposed yard at Red Rock (or on double-tracking the Fremont-Missouri Valley Line, either), although on reflection, these projects may be listed under operating plan improvements, not bottleneck elimination.
Views from Up On the New Hunts Lane Overpass
San Bernardino-Colton, CA
Part I (of I-VII)
An Initial, Quick Review of the New Overpass
Looking eastbound: CP SP542 LOMA LINDA and the Waterman Ave. overpass
Looking westbound:
A northward view and the difference in the fencing over the tracks:
Looking south, a vast residential area … In the distance, Hunts Lane T intersects into Barton Rd.
From K.P.’s personally having been on the bridge, it can be said that it ‘feels’ higher than the typical bridge.
Continued in Part II
Part II (of I-VII)
At First Arrival
The Main 2 signal was red over green.
The eastbound train showed up almost too fast, with little time to prepare.
Continued in Part III
Part III (of I-VII)
Then another Auto-Rack!
Three in sequence shots of a westbound right after the eastbound:
As seen above, while K.P.’s small camera does NOT fit through the fence, he can shoot telephotos through it, but wider angled shots capture the fence.
Continued in Part IV
Part IV (of I-VII)
A Final East Sidewalk Review and …
An industrial spur is on the lower center-right, off the Ice Deck siding.
K.P. left the area for personal reasons, visited the new truss bridges in the Grand Terrace area, and swung by the Colton Signal Dept., where the six boxes believed to be related to the six switches yet to be installed at CP AL514 HAMILTON in Pomona were rotting away. If one looks to the bottom of the TOP forefront crate the box seems to be coming apart.
In view of the new Colton Flyover, all the laying down signals are still present, and all the spools of signal cable are rotting away too, which is no real problem as they will probably be discarded anyway.
Continued in Part V
Part V (of I-VII)
Before Returning to Hunts Lane
In conjunction with the financing the Colton Flyover, part of the agreement was turning into cul-de-sacs both H and E Streets. The east side of H Street with BNSF’s CP29 GONALES in the background:
Work is creeping along still in finishing the grade crossing elimination.
In an ironic sighting, a trespasser from off the east south sidewalk crossed the tracks, and walked on the background west south sidewalk …
Before returning to Hunts Lane, K.P. saw ANOTHER auto-rack (far background), this one like the others, on the Mt. Vernon Connector, transitioning between the Sunset Route and the BNSF (LA&SL).
Above photo, upper area: I-10 Freeway traffic passes and an eastbound (leftward) Sunset Route train on the Colton Flyover is stopped.
OK, back to Hunts Lane.
Continued in Part VI
Part VI (of I-VII)
The West Side of Hunts Lane
On Hunts Lane again, looking west in lowering sunlight:
Just above, the center foregrounds tracks are, from left to right, Mains 2 and 1. The two background tracks on the left are, from left to right, Ice Deck 2 and Ice Deck 1. Decades and decades ago Pacific Fruit Express reefers were loaded with ice in lieu of today’s gas run generator reefers.
Just above, too, the far background mountain is Cement Mountain, a lowering large cement mountain being chipped away by cement sellers.
The two Ice Deck tracks:
From up high, the east end switch (see above) where Ice Dick 2 and 1 meet, has a traditional frog, NOT UP’s regular spring frog!
A view looking east at the east side we were on earlier.
Just above, note all the wood tied 30 M.P.H. switches on a concrete tied mainlines!
Hmmm. Wood tied switches and a non-traditional frog …Is all this arrangement on borrowed time? Like maybe CP SP542 LOMA LINDA will someday be moved a mile to the east and the Ice Deck siding lengthened?
Continued in Part VII
Part VII (of I-VII)
A telephoto westward view:
The Ice Deck 2 jogs by the I-215 Freeway bridges.
A heavy westward telephoto: The lit, cantilevered signals are the east side westbound signals of CP SP540 MT VERNON, and are for the Ice Deck siding and Main 2
Above, the LOWER heads look traditional (green-yellow-red), but are not. They have yellow, lunar, and red, but NO green! The greatest aspect the signal can display to go unto the Mt. Vernon Connector is red over flashing yellow.
When one approaches the bottom of the south ramp, on the west side that we took the above photos on, one sees a strange pathway that is fenced off with rod iron fencing (lower left) from the street just to the north, but the path is open at the camera location.
Designers must have done that to make railfans scratch their heads and get their mind off taking pictures of trains …
Also, just above, the extension outward (photo center) of the overpass doesn’t seem to have a design purpose.
This will conclude the series. But, the forum now has views never before possible now that an overpass is open.
SP657E44 (11-13):
You stated, “There was no railroad through [Cajon Pass] before the California Southern [Santa Fe].” There may have been NO railroad, but a real, functioning railroad in the 1870’s DID own a land path through Cajon Pass, and it was on a strip of THAT land path that they built (or at least partially built) a bridge.
Most of us think horizontally when it comes to spatial land. But ownership of that spatial land extends upward and downward too. The property I own has a special, legal dimension to it, as the mineral rights to that land are held by Union Pacific, the owner of the Sunset Route. So, while I generally can do what I want with my property, I am prohibited from extracting natural valuables from the land itself, as if somehow I discovered oil on my property.
The 1870’s railroad built or partially built a bridge on THEIR property, but where no train could ever possibly get up to! Is that crazy of what? Earlier this year I was part of an expedition party to the very secluded site, but it didn’t look like we could get to the actual site itself, and had to turn back. A chopper would bring certain success, but nobody of the party had a few thousand dollars to throw towards renting a helicopter, especially in light of the stupidity of the original project, i.e. building a bridge where NO train could every go over the bridge. And that didn’t even account for the pitchfork treatment from our wives if we did spend a few thousand dollars to go aerial …
billio (11-15):
You posted: ‘UP COO Lance Fritz unequivocally shows (“Capital Plan -- Next Five Years” Slide 6) that double-tracking work will continue not just on the Yuma and Gila subs, but between El Paso and Sierra Blanca as well.’ The El Paso to Sierra Blanca (TX) two-tracking was a most unexpected news item!
When I was out that Sierra Blanca way some months ago I saw NO trains whatsoever. UP must fleet the trains there. The trick must be to catch a fleet for a show … or a fleet meeting a fleet! Maybe (“maybe”) next year I’ll spend a few days out that way, as well as the new Santa Teresa, NM complex.
K. P. Harrier Replies SP657E44 (11-13): You stated, “There was no railroad through [Cajon Pass] before the California Southern [Santa Fe].” There may have been NO railroad, but a real, functioning railroad in the 1870’s DID own a land path through Cajon Pass, and it was on a strip of THAT land path that they built (or at least partially built) a bridge. Most of us think horizontally when it comes to spatial land. But ownership of that spatial land extends upward and downward too. The property I own has a special, legal dimension to it, as the mineral rights to that land are held by Union Pacific, the owner of the Sunset Route. So, while I generally can do what I want with my property, I am prohibited from extracting natural valuables from the land itself, as if somehow I discovered oil on my property. The 1870’s railroad built or partially built a bridge on THEIR property, but where no train could ever possibly get up to! Is that crazy of what? Earlier this year I was part of an expedition party to the very secluded site, but it didn’t look like we could get to the actual site itself, and had to turn back. A chopper would bring certain success, but nobody of the party had a few thousand dollars to throw towards renting a helicopter, especially in light of the stupidity of the original project, i.e. building a bridge where NO train could every go over the bridge. And that didn’t even account for the pitchfork treatment from our wives if we did spend a few thousand dollars to go aerial … billio (11-15): You posted: ‘UP COO Lance Fritz unequivocally shows (“Capital Plan -- Next Five Years” Slide 6) that double-tracking work will continue not just on the Yuma and Gila subs, but between El Paso and Sierra Blanca as well.’ The El Paso to Sierra Blanca (TX) two-tracking was a most unexpected news item! When I was out that Sierra Blanca way some months ago I saw NO trains whatsoever. UP must fleet the trains there. The trick must be to catch a fleet for a show … or a fleet meeting a fleet! Maybe (“maybe”) next year I’ll spend a few days out that way, as well as the new Santa Teresa, NM complex. Best, K.P.
K.P.,
We often travel I-10 between Texas and Arizona. Traffic in the Sierra Blanca area can vary from sporadic (or none) to heavy. They don't necessarily fleet the trains--at least from what I have noticed. The last time we were through there, traffic was heavy on the T&P and even heavier once it joined the Sunset at Sierra Blanca. Much of it on the T&P side is containers and autos. The double-track (or second main, if that's the case) west of S.B. may be to eliminate westbound congestion in the El Paso area. Even though UP is moving its yards out to Santa Teresa, N.M, El Paso still requires slow running through town.
All well and good KP but the pictures you posted are from the Perris collection. Onward with current day.
Thank you for the pictures from the completed Hunts Lane overpass -- that's a phrase I didn't anticipate saying!
Super Hunky, Has K.P. Ever Got Good News For YOU!
-- And, Everyone Else Too!
In your November 9, 2014 post, Super Hunky, you mentioned how you had passed by the Yuma, AZ area and saw new grading west of town, in the Algodonnes area, which is timetabled as the “Araz” area. You also informed us the new crew change location in Yuma looked close to ready to open.
Inspired by (1) your report, Super Hunky, and (2) from communications with posts-reader Kevin Gray (who has photos of the Santa Teresa area which I hope to post soon, and are just awaiting his final approval), in which communications Kevin mentioned that in his travels along I-8 in Arizona that ANOTHER area looked like some type of two-tracking activity was taking place, so K.P. decided to go and see for himself what everything was about!
This is what was found: (1) There is about a two mile mountainous section currently being graded (“graded”) in the Araz area, (2) the 10 miles or so of the Colfred to Mohawk section looks to have been graded for the second main, and (3) the new crew change location indeed looks almost ready to open. Nighttime had fallen, but several handheld photos were gotten nevertheless, seeing that the place was ‘all lit up.’ The present CP signals thereat were still standing, so the present track arrangement by the future crew change location might stay.
K.P. took 214 photos altogether on the 14-hour trip, and it will take some time to organize and put a report together for the forum. But, that is what is now in the works …
KP I had a feeling you would get the Bug and head out to AZ to have a look see. I'll have to get the map book out to find that 10 mile section you mentioned out at Mohawk. I assume it's out in Mohawk Valley. Anyway Looking forward to your next post.
A Trip East to Yuma, AZ and Over 60 Miles Beyond
The series has NOT been finalized or scheduled yet, but three Parts have formed, with between seven and nine Section each.
Rollercoaster-like grading between Colfred and Mohawk, AZ in crisp, setting sun evening light
Tentatively, the Parts are:
Part A: The Sunset Ave. underpass construction in Banning, CA
Two-track grading west of Yuma, AZ in the hilly Araz area
Part B: Two-track grading west of Yuma, AZ in the hilly Araz area (Continued)
Two-track grading the Colfred to Mohawk, AZ stretch
Part C: Two-track grading the Colfred to Mohawk, AZ stretch (Continued)
Nighttime at the future crew change in Yuma, AZ
K.P. how many cars does west colton hump on average per day?
Before the Turkeys Awoke
Near 5 A.M. Thanksgiving Day, Thursday, November 27, 2014, way before even the sun came up K.P. dropped the Mrs. off at Ontario International Airport (ONT) in Ontario, CA, an airport between the Sunset Route (SP) and the alternated Sunset Route (LA&SL). It was too irresistible not to see if anything new was in the area.
On the LA&SL, just east of the slightly angled OWLS diamond at CP C038 ONTARIO, a huge pile of ballast was present.
It is unknown what type of activity is taking place in this area, but the ballast pile seemed larger than normal, for all that is worth.
The Schedule for:
Thursday, November 27, 2014
Friday, November 28. 2014:
Part B: Two-track grading west of Yuma, AZ in the hilly Araz area
(Continued)
Two-track grading the Colfred to Mohawk, AZ Stretch
Saturday, November 29, 2014:
Part C: Two-track grading the Colfred to Mohawk, AZ Stretch
Posts should be up by 6:00 P.M. (Pacific Time) on the above designated dates.
To enlarge view, press CTRL and +, to reduce, CTRL and -
Sunday, November 23, 2014
Part “A” (of A-C), Section 1 (of 1-8)
A Quick Stop in Banning, CA
Eastward on I-10, it was remembered that mvs had informed us of an underpass construction at Sunset Ave. and the Sunset Route in Banning, CA. A brief stop there was made.
From the south on Sunset Ave., looking north, the shoofly has been in operation for some time, and the south side of Sunset Ave. has been dug down a bit (photo bottom).
Riverside Construction seems to be the contractor.
Riverside Construction was the same contractor that built the much needed new Ranchero Road AND underpass under the BNSF in Hesperia, CA in 2012-2013.
Another south side view: Where all the water that made the big drainage gully came from in severe drought stricken California doesn’t quite make sense …
OK. Now to the Yuma, AZ area!
Continued in Section 2
Part “A”, Section 2 (of 1-8)
In the Araz (CA) Area West of Yuma, AZ
The new ‘high and wide detector’ is just a little east of CP SP724 ARAZ. Note all the yellow earth moving equipment on the left by that CP.
Rugged terrain to say the least! Note the new culvert-work on the lower right.
A closer view of that culvert-work:
Continued in Section 3
Part “A”, Section 3 (of 1-8)
From the same general area, looking east:
As seen above, the grading is presently a work in progress, and much earth is being moved around.
Continued in Section 4
Part “A”, Section 4 (of 1-8)
As one moves eastward, much culvert-work is in process here and there, some looking offset and not balanced in appearance.
The present track and future second track is close to a little used public road.
Continued in Section 5
Part “A”, Section 5 (of 1-8)
Just east a bit, a higher elevated spot gives an overview. Looking westbound:
Just above, note how the hill (upper right) is being graded way. Note too, the radical area elevation differences of this area..
Also, it is fascinating the approach the contractor is taking in grading certain areas first (as below, upper RIGHT as compared to the upper left edge), and doing other ungraded areas later.
That upper left not graded area as seen above is shown below (the photo center area above the present track).
Continued in Section 6
Part “A”, Section 6 (of 1-8)
Looking west still … another area:
Now, and overview looking eastbound:
Other eastward views:
Continued in Section 7
Part “A”, Section 7 (of 1-8)
The hill (left) once right by the curving track has been graded out of the way.
Moving the camera southward just a bit, by the access road, a few views looking back west:
Continued in Section 8
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