'Reference Photos' for This Reply Post
From this poster's files ...
From S.R. 347 in Maricopa, AZ, looking west.
Looking east. The graded alignment shift is easily seen from the background left to the foreground right.
Looking south. The second main should cross somewhere in the area of the crossing gate (which will have to be moved back farther) and the ambulance.
Now, the Replies ...
desertdog (11-9):
The newspaper item you linked was very helpful. Thanks.
One thing in the material that caught my attention was UP rep Zoe Richmond's statement that the second main would be put in service this Spring. So, apparently, just a grade crossing panel track will be installed into Highway 347, and obviously the crossing gates moved accordingly. Why three or four days of road closure would be consumed for that kind of simple task baffles me. It is assumed that the unconnected track will be laid at UP's leisure thereafter to the future CP a few thousand feet east of Highway 347, and remain unconnected and unused until Spring.
So, if I understand matters correctly, half the trains will still be traveling slowly across Highway 347 because of the slow speed turnout just west of that highway, at least until Spring.
Desertdog, does all this sound right?
Locomatt63 (11-8):
Between yours and desertdog's reports from being on-site, the forum is getting a better mental picture of what is going on (and will go on) in the Maricopa, AZ area.
As seen in the east facing photo above, the alignment shift should leave the Amtrak Station stop unaffected; thus, I doubt there will be an Amtrak siding. New track laying toward the camera will merely alignment shift from the north side (left) of the present main to the south side (right).
About digital photography ... Exactly why you've had sizing problems is unclear. There does not appear to be a uniform standard that companies and host outfits adhere to, so mismatched settings may be part of the problem you've reported having. Without the digital photos in hand, so to speak, it is difficult to trace your problems for a possible successful resolution.
I've owned some of the best FILM based cameras, such as Nikon and Hasselblad. The Hasselblad brought surprisingly disappointing sharpness results, though. At this time I have no experience with high end digital cameras. The nonprofessional digital cameras of my wife that I've used at this forum have given surprisingly clear and rather sharp results.
If you cannot end produce clear and sharp photos of standard sizes and contrast, you may want to look into investing in a new digital camera. My wife's two cameras cost $100 and $150 (on sale) respectively, so they were relatively inexpensive. You can buy a nice digital Nikon or Canon for $600-$1000. If you have a spare pricy car to sacrifice, you can fork it over to a camera shop for a new digital Hasselblad. But, I know I sure don't ...
A word of caution, though, about low end purchases. I've gotten away with using unprofessional cameras here at the forum because documenting 'still' scenes is what unprofessional digital cameras are all about. When I press the shutter button, a DELAY up to a second of shutter response has occurred before, but not always. Such is NOT conducive to fast moving railroad photography. A pricy Nikon Coolpix is of a very unprofessional camera line, and I recommend staying away from them. On the other hand, Nikons and Canons, and what ever else there is out there, that are CAPABLE of taking fast, MULTIPLE PHOTOS PER SECOND mesh well with normal fast action railroad photography.
It is hoped all this helps in some way.
A Photo Word to Everyone Interested ...
I tend to carry TWO digital cameras in my documenting travels. One has a somewhat normal, traditional size lens. The other has a very physically small design. That latter one comes in handy for overpasses with the newer petite wire fence messing. The traditional size lens cannot fit though such meshing to obtain unobstructed photo views!
The above photo taken in Tucson, AZ was such an occurrence. With a physically small lens of a second camera, I was able to stick the lens through a super small mesh opening in the long bridge's long fencing, and presto, documenting the Tucson view was accomplished!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
K.P. Harrier wrote:
"One thing in the material that caught my attention was UP rep Zoe Richmond's statement that the second main would be put in service this Spring. So, apparently, just a grade crossing panel track will be installed into Highway 347, and obviously the crossing gates moved accordingly. Why three or four days of road closure would be consumed for that kind of simple task baffles me. It is assumed that the unconnected track will be laid at UP's leisure thereafter to the future CP a few thousand feet east of Highway 347, and remain unconnected and unused until Spring.
Desertdog, does all this sound right?"
K.P.,
Apparently it will be spring, and in some ways I can see why. As you have noted in the past, there are two sets of crossovers and a relatively large amount of signalling needed that has to be wired in, tested and cut over. Another thing to keep in mind is that spring arrives in Arizona a lot earlier than most other places. They will want to get things pretty much done by the end of March because you can get 95-100 degree days in April.As to why the SR347 crossing takes four days to accomplish, all I can say is that Arizona takes its good natured time when it comes to road projects. Unlike the north where they rush to get roads done while they can between the spring thaw and the fall freeze, here they seem to have no such sense of urgency.
I found the mention of a "derailment" rather curious. I don't know why that location would be any more prone to a derailment than any other given the current configuration. My guess is that they played the derailment "card" with the State in order to get things moving faster. Again, just a guess.
If I can't see what is going on when I head to Tucson Sunday evening, I'll pass through again on the way back Monday.
John Timm
desertdog (11-12):
Thanks for confirming that I was on the right track ... or, rather, understood the matter as you did.
In some ways UP may have played the derailment card in that news article you linked. I think, though, the PR person was trying to show the tracks were deteriorating to the point that there could be a derailment, and such could be devastating if it occurred at S.R. 347.
Of course, the UP definition of bad track probably varies considerably from mine ... To me, bad track is what Milwaukee Road had in its last days ...
What I'm curious about now is whether or not UP will at least continue laying the second track eastward past Cowtown to the next double-crossover somewhere in the east. If they don't, laying a second track over S.R. 347 will hardly relieve public irritation.
Take care.
K.P.
Hey John, thanks for the photo tips, I have not been in Maricopa proper in 2 weeks, hoping to drop in there this weekend and check on how much more progress has happened. I was there on Tuesday the 3rd, and crews were still setting up more concrete ties going west from the new switch towards the Amtrak station. Today I was coming from a customer near the airport (Sky Harbor) and the UP Phoenix Sub (and yard) are right close to this customer, anyway, after leaving, took the SR143 to get back to I 10, and on the siding was a LONG MOW train sitting in the siding, trucks, busses, tractors, heavy equpment etc. Not sure where this is going to go, but I hope it is still there this weekend and get some pics and hopefully some info on where all this equipment is going.
locomatt63 Hey John, thanks for the photo tips, I have not been in Maricopa proper in 2 weeks, hoping to drop in there this weekend and check on how much more progress has happened. I was there on Tuesday the 3rd, and crews were still setting up more concrete ties going west from the new switch towards the Amtrak station. Today I was coming from a customer near the airport (Sky Harbor) and the UP Phoenix Sub (and yard) are right close to this customer, anyway, after leaving, took the SR143 to get back to I 10, and on the siding was a LONG MOW train sitting in the siding, trucks, busses, tractors, heavy equpment etc. Not sure where this is going to go, but I hope it is still there this weekend and get some pics and hopefully some info on where all this equipment is going.
Again, I posted a while back that there is a long line of ribbon rail next to the Phoenix Line proper through Tempe and Mesa up to the Mesa siding @ Extension road. This track is currently laid with stick rail that dates back to 1953.
Well then it sounds like it could be an Arizona area wide "Blitz", to upgrade/replace the Phoenix line, and maybe move out onto the Gila Sub and start double tracking east from Maricopa while the weather is nice...will keep railfanning the area and see what happens
Update as of Friday, November 13, 2009:
Pomona, CA
Part I, Section A (of A-D)
Last weekend LA&SL work forces converge upon the CP OAK area, installed a switch, and realigned the track. The following documents what the site looks like a week later.
From Hamilton Ave. looking west, the five-foot realignment's warped track has all been returned to a well manicured shape, and track speed restored.
In the above photo, note the background signal on the upper left, and how it aligns with the parked cars on the road. To install a future signal just beyond the new switch, whether it be of a mast or bridge design, it is clear now the track had to swing to the right briefly to go around whatever will be installed there.
Note, too, the alignment of that new switch above. The background track and the foreground track obviously aligns, but note how the straight part of the switch slightly angles to the right.
A west side view, looking east. Because of the alignment shift, theoretically, there should be less ballast falling unto the street (lower right).
New markings on the southwest side of the Hamilton Blvd. grade crossing.
Not photographable were many UP (?) workers that were working between [CP] OAK and [CP] ROSELAWN, and maybe further west too. They had parked their autos alongside the tracks just west of [CP] OAK
Continued in Section B
Part I, Section B (of A-D)
The walling by Humane Way is coming along well. Note the newly poured, wet cement in the extra temporary framing.
Continued in Section C
Part I, Section C (of A-D)
A west view from Humane Way. At times, there were a constant stream to trucks ...
... hauling thinly ground sub layer.
The thinly ground sub laying was being put on the new grading EAST of Humane Way and eastward toward [CP] ROSELAWN.
Continued in Section D
Part I, Section D (of A-D)
The grading under Highway 57 and several hundred feet west has started to progress well.
Fill-in dirt is being poured east of Temple Ave. now.
It appears a serious effort is now being made just east of Temple Ave. Staking and fill dirt is present.
Watering trucks periodically pass. This forum contributor could look down into the hole on the tank top and see a full tank of water swishing around ...
Part II is scheduled for Monday afternoon, November 16, 2009. We will finish off on what is occurring west of Temple Ave. Also, other items of interest in the Pomona area will be looked at.
Great pics K.B, looks like they are really moving along and getting things set for more trackwork. Sorry I gave credit for the info on photos to John, but again to you I say thanks for the pic information. Here in AZ, things are happening at Maricopa again. UP is setting up trackwork to cross SR347 next weekend grabbed some "before" pics, and when they are done, I will show the "after" pics...
Ok, cant get pics to post, so lets try this link and see if that works to post pics....
http://westcoastrailforums.com/view_topic.php?id=3238&forum_id=73
locomatt63Ok, cant get pics to post, so lets try this link and see if that works to post pics.... http://westcoastrailforums.com/view_topic.php?id=3238&forum_id=73
these were taken on Saturday 11/14/09, they photo 1 shows the cleared area leading where the new second (south) main will cross SR347 next weekend, panel tracks with concrete ties are nearby and ready to be dragged/lifted into place.
The 2nd photo shows the new switch coming off the north (old) main on the north side of the main and proceeds towards the amtrak station, but stops approx 1000ft from the platform. I looked around the platform and at the west end of platform there are marking for utilities or where they will cut the asphalt of 347.
The 3rd photo shows the switch stand of the new switch, I just believe that it makes sense to have a siding for amtrack and get them off the mains while loading/unloading, now that 2 gons and the flat with concrete switch materiel sitting at CP Mobile, could be brought towards Maricopa and placed west of the 347 crossing near the old SP water tank. So will they "triple" track 347? Next week will tell the story.
Picture link http://westcoastrailforums.com/view_topic.php?id=3242&forum_id=73
Passengerfan (11-11):
Thanks for relating your firsthand "trucking business" experience about the likely costs for tire replacements for that tire that blew. Such clarifying knowledge broadens our awareness that things in the railroad business and things to keep it running are not cheep by any means.
Part II, Section A (of A-E)
The spacer rails have been installed between the two newly laid turnouts. This forum contributor had figured the wood tied turnout (of the crossover left) had been installed in error, and would be replaced by a concrete tied one. But, apparently, they are going with the wood tied switch anyway ... unless they have NOT yet figured out the possible boo-boo ...
That old track that had been lying on top of the new, unused track has been moved to the side.
The new, unused track has had something rolled over it, for the rail tops are now semi-shiny. Likely, that "something" was the equipment parked in the above first photo's background left top.
Part II, Section B (of A-E)
Now, for some misc. Pomona area issues and photo documentation ...
The construction on the new Ramona Ave. overpass east of Pomona is coming along fine. You may recall this overpass is part of the Alameda Corridor East grade separation project. The absolute signal on the left is part of the west end of the SP side's NORTH MONCLAIR siding. The track in the foreground is the LA&SL.
Below is the trackage over Reservoir Street, as seen FROM the southwest. The track in the foreground is the LA&SL, the SP Sunset Route is in the background. Note there is NO bridging gap between the LA&SL and SP. It is all one wide bridge.
The Reservoir Street underpass as seen from underneath on the southeast side. Note the sidewalks on both sides are safely above roadway level.
The bridge width could support a number of tracks without modification.
Part II, Section C (of A-E)
This forum contributor has previously brought to the forum's attention a "mystery track" in Pomona that seemingly can't go anywhere, and suggested that it eventually may simply connect to a west extension of [CP] WO TOWER on the LA&SL side. Perhaps, though, a mystery track extension eastward on the SP side to near the west switch of NORTH MONTCLAIR would work. So, with that particular scenario there would be THREE main tracks then on the SP side for exceptional transitioning flexibility between the SP and LA&SL sides. The majority of trains now transition between the two sides. All that would be needed is new bridging at Towne Ave. Just a thought ...
The above previously shown photo illustrates the gap that would need to be bridged over at Towne Ave. The SP side is in the background.
Part II, Section D (of A-E)
In downtown Pomona there is an EAST signal bridge in place for the future [CP] AL514 HAMILTON. But, what will be installed on the WEST side of the new [CP] HAMILTON? MikeF90 suggested in the bottom of his November 9 reply post that it might be a signal bridge. Interestingly, whatever signaling structure(s) is erected there, last year a retaining wall was built right where the new switch was put in two Saturday's ago, and where the west signals likely will be placed.
A signal bridge (NOT a cantilever structure) there with NARROW supports would fit between the retaining wall and the track. It would be high out of harms way from errant motorists. The EAST bridge's curb level south leg support, on the other hand, has a number of blocks around it for protection against wayward autos.
If UP installs mast signals on the west side of the new CP AL514 HAMILTON, it will have a hard time avoiding confusion IF they use any LEFT handed signals, like the one they put in on the west side of [CP] RANCHO in Colton, east of Pomona.
Continued in Section E
Colton, CA
Part II, Section E (of A-E)
Lastly, you may recall that orange wire protective material in Arizona east of Maricopa earlier this year.
Friday night, this forumist stopped by the signal facility in Colton on the way home from Pomona. A couple of large reals of the orange material was on hand.
A considerable amount of black cabling was gone also, but there was plenty left. UP is SLOWLY doing its upgrading and installing new arrangements as time slowly marches on ...
KP, Thanks for these updates. If I ever get out your way I'll feel that I've been there before due to your work here on the forum. Speaking of which, "Trains" owes you as I renewed my subscription just so I can continue to read your posts.
John
After many months delay, This forumist visited the Pomona area last Saturday. While K.P. has a sixth sense or inside knowledge to show up when work happens, I managed to drive it away. Sorry, no pictures, major auto work took precedence over a new camera.
K. P. HarrierAll that would be needed is new bridging at Towne Ave.
The middle Metrolink platform at downtown Pomona is now marked 'Emergency Use Only'. Hmmm, I guess they figured out it wasn't safe for regular use. After viewing the 'SP' side bridge at Garey Ave from below, I believe it is four tracks wide (assuming 16' spacing). Not that they will ever need that many tracks there.... Maybe the SP station used to have its own siding?
To make my previous post clearer, the track shifting makes it easier/safer to put in new signals for EBs just west of Oak Ave (and to fit into the rest of their design, of course). Or UP could surprise us and put signals even further west where the ROWs diverge, making them more visible from west of the curve. Putting signals real close to the new (high speed?) turnout doesn't sound like a good idea. /speculation
It may be an optical illusion, but 'in person' the signal heads on the new Humane Way bridges don't look quite aligned with the existing tracks. Also, K.P.'s pictures show how astoundingly tight the clearance will be for the fourth track next to the bridge support - a shifted load will be disastrous here!
Regarding the odd turnouts installed at 'West Temple',
K. P. HarrierThis forum contributor had figured the wood tied turnout (of the crossover left) had been installed in error, and would be replaced by a concrete tied one.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
After seeing the situation in daylight yesterday, I have a better idea of what is going on with the construction at Maricopa and what the eventual outcome will be.
Construction begins with a vengeance just west of Porter Rd. and just to the east of the eventual site of the CP East Maricopa crossovers (CP 899). There were several crews at work with front end loaders and track laying equipment, and a ballast train had dumped twelve carloads just before I got there.
As Matthew reported previously, there is a pre-fabricated panel switch on the ground east of CP Maricopa. It is left-hand, which tells me it will mark the temporary east end of the double track. The second main has been laid westward from about that point along the north side of the existing main to a point approaching the Amtrak depot as shown in Matthew’s recent photos. This section has been ballasted most of the way to the end. However, the westernmost 400’ or so at the transition / conversion point is resting on the sub-roadbed, which suggests it will be swung over to the south to meet the existing main.
The eastward extension of the present Maricopa siding will likewise be swung over to meet with the current main at the same point.
Put another way, the track leading from the Maricopa siding (Main #2) will shift to the left (north) at the transition / conversion point to join up with the existing main. It will continue east to just past the future CP Maricopa where there will be the above-mentioned switch. At that point, Main #2 will end for now.
The track that is presently being laid and ballasted to the north of the existing main will be connected at the same switch and become Main #1 from there west.
All this seems to rule out both the extension of the westward main through the depot platform or a dedicated third track for passenger trains.
To me, it also means that trains on Main #2 will be able to travel somewhat faster across SR 347 than they do now since they still have close to a mile to travel before main #2 ends.
MikeF90 (11-16):
You mentioned a closed gate and sign at the Metrolink stop in downtown Pomona, CA. In October, I was walking around that very Metrolink stop and saw the sign you mentioned. At the time, I just had a whim to photograph that sign, but never really thought I would ever have a use for the photos. Then, your post came along ... Two of the photos are below for the benefit of the rest of the forum.
If the "mystery track" previously mentioned in this topic heads east (when finally laid) the concrete platform in the first photo above would need to be torn out. The concrete platform currently extends OVER the Garey Ave. bridge you mentioned having had walked underneath. When I previously walked underneath that same bridging, I saw a width for THREE tracks on the SP side, and for ONE track on the LA&SL side. While there is total bridging from the north side to the south, it would seem only the FOUR widths mentioned above are structurally capable of supporting multiple 200-ton locomotives. Just south of and separate from the LA&SL track is an additional strong bridge for the track-straddling First Street.
About that west of Temple Ave. questionable new wood-tied switch installation: Initially, I must confess, I thought your suggestion of a TEMPORARY installation couldn't possibly be right. But, the more I though about it, you might actually have something there! It is an incredible concept!
In that light, it should be noted that in September I passed through Maricopa, AZ, and UP had installed NEW crossing gates right in the path of the new second track alignment. I thought that was very crazy to do! But, there must be a method to the UP madness.
This coming weekend, reportedly, the newly erected crossing gates on the south side (the right side in the photo above) will be moved further south and a second track installed through the above grade crossing. If those NEW gates were only temporarily positioned, why couldn't that wood-tied switch west of Temple Ave. in Pomona, CA be only temporarily positioned as well?
UP has succeeded in riveting us in their live performance slowly taking place right before our eyes (at least for some through the eye of the camera).
Take care, MikeF90. And, I hope your ill car is doing better now ... and the 'medical' bills for the car weren't too bad ...
During a road trip on I-10 from Tucson to Casa Grande and return on Tuesday, 17 November, I saw absolutely no construction activity anywhere and only one west-bound train.
Tumbleweeds and other fast-growing desert plants are reclaiming the second main roadbed that was prepared last year.
cacole During a road trip on I-10 from Tucson to Casa Grande and return on Tuesday, 17 November, I saw absolutely no construction activity anywhere and only one west-bound train. Tumbleweeds and other fast-growing desert plants are reclaiming the second main roadbed that was prepared last year.
There is construction going on at the Rillito River crossing in Tucson. When I went by Tuesday, there were construction vehicles in the river bottom, steel beams stacked nearby and a flat bed semi was delivering culvert sections. An Ames tank truck was watering down the roadbed. You are correct, however, that nothing else is happening from there to all the way to Cowtown / Maricopa.
Desertdog (11-17):
Thanks for the on-site verifications in the Maricopa, AZ area. You've painted a pretty good picture of what is going on there.
In locomatt63's post link (11-14), a RIGHTHANDED turnout is shown in a photo shot about 1000 feet east of the new crossovers location. In line with your post, desertdog, I had concluded that that HAND THROWN turnout is temporary and merely for maintenance-of-way use only.
What gets me is those new, not in service yet intermediate signals on the west side of Porter Road, on the east side of Maricopa.
I have got a hunch once the new CP east of Highway 347 is in service, UP will quickly lay track east from the new CP and through Porter Road to a new CP further east. UP certainly should then have a little money to spare in light of the fact they have just recently postponed putting in the $300 million 'Intermodal terminal' at Santa Teresa, New Mexico. (TRAINS Newswire, November 12, 2009)
The revamping of West Colton Yard in California should be nearing completion, which theoretically, could mean the construction on Red Rock Yard in Arizona might start soon. As I recall, that construction was scheduled to begin in 2010, which date is now getting very close. Since Arizona is in your 'neck of the woods,' desertdog, have you heard anything about Red Rock of late?
I'm not sure either about the placement of the intermediate signals at Porter Rd. They seem very close to the crossovers at MP 899.
As to the crossing signals at SR347, my best guess is that ADOT has a minimum / maximum distance standard for their placement. Rather than seek a waiver during construction, the UP just went along with whatever is specified.
I have heard nothing recent on Red Rock. I'll have to check with some people who are much more in the know than I.
K. P. HarrierWorkers will return in JANUARY 2010 and do more ...
K. P. HarrierUP has succeeded in riveting us in their live performance slowly taking place right before our eyes (at least for some through the eye of the camera).
The Diversion, Pomona, CA
Yesterday, November 18, 2009, this forumist had to be in the Pomona, CA area on person business. Such allowed time for a visual review of the Diversion, and it was found that nothing obvious seemed to have had taking place therein since last week.
In visually assessing the progress compared to what official Diversion sources have said, a left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing situation seems to have developed. So, what was believe to be true (i.e., word from one of the entities involved that the Diversion would be finish by the end of November) is proving to be quite not the case.
Probably more reliable are words from LA&SL (UP) workers themselves, that is, that something will take place in January concerning Pomona, and possibly something also around March. Exactly what is unknown.
More successful, though, were efforts taken to comprehend the physical aspects of what is actual spanning over Garey Ave., and a four-part A to D posting follows.
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