BNSF6400:
Thank you for that enlightening insight into the 25-foot track centers; it makes a lot of practical sense.
I had often wondered why the BNSF/UP joint triple-track lines in the Powder River Basin were on such wide centers, and your comment would explain why. Those lines, being newer, would reflect those Federal Regulations, and the wide centers would be much easier in flat, wide open spaces like Wyoming's High Plain's or California's deserts (where the additional ROW would be cheaper, too). Mountain crossings might be a bit more difficult or expensive to engineer with the wider ROW of the 25-foot centers.
It is always entertaining to see how the most efficient means of transport can improve upon its efficiency. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
John
Wash, DC
denveroutlaws06 how much of the Sunset Route is now complete K.P.?
how much of the Sunset Route is now complete K.P.?
Yes, UP machinery does work on UP track ......
In regards to your SanJac/PVL posts Ames in Scottsdale is the same Ames in California, Minnesota, Canada, Colorado, Utah, and Nevada ( a 2 second search of their website reveals their Montana, Indiana and Kansas offices are no longer listed - projects completed). Just like Flat Iron they're based in Colorado but have an office in Fullerton.
A10
Views like Few Others!
Los Angeles Area Aerials
Kevin Gray recently flew into LAX (Los Angeles International Airport), and as a follower of this thread was astutely aware of some of the track that has been mentioned over the months. He sent K.P. three pertinent photos from his landing approach, and has allowed the three to be reproduced here in behalf of the forum.
The LA&SL bridge replacement over the 91 Freeway in Riverside (area on the lower right quadrant).
The Puente Hills Intermodal Facility area: The LA&SL tracks curve off the photo midway up on the right.
The Alameda Corridor trench (with 3 mainline tracks in it): Towards the photo bottom, if one looks real good, the trench’s cross concrete beaming is seen. Alameda St. parallels right next to the trench. The Los Angeles skyscrapers are visible in the distance (upper left).
The Alameda Corridor trench hosts BNSF and UP trains, and many intermodal trains off the LA&SL and Sunset Route traverse it.
Thanks Kevin for sharing!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Replies
ccltrains (2-19):
Within a month it is hoped to run up to Bakersfield, your old trumping ground of decades ago.
When I was up there and Tehachapi at the end of 2013, only 2-1/2 months ago, cutting the mountain for a second track by Tunnel 10 had started.
And, the signaling in Bakersfield proper were in the process of being upgraded to color lights.
So, by now much must have been accomplished.
UP sure has a lot of coals in the fire! The Sunset Route isn’t the only place of activity.
eolesen (2-21):
It is unknown if you have been following the Perris Valley Line thread or not, but recently the Press-Enterprise newspaper in Riverside (CA) mentioned extending the line to the Murrieta area. If the powers that be do that, I envision it being only a matter of time before an effort to reach Oceanside is dreamt up, via Camp Pendleton, a government base on the old AT&SF branch line.
So, your travels from Arizona to California may eventually see more track-laying than just the two-tracking of the Sunset Route. Reportedly, two-tracking is now going on in the Oceanside area for commuter trains. But someday Oceanside to Murrieta may see trains again too, but that probably will be single-track, at least at first!
BNSF6400 (2-24):
‘Flowerpot signals.’ Colorful name, to say the least!
BNSF on the Cajon Pass slopes seems to like them, as in the photos below at Main St. in Hesperia, CA.
eolesen (2-26):
Nice Informative eyewitness report on the track maintenance work on the single-track in Arizona!
Kevin Gray had reported to me his Amtrak No. 2 trip left Los Angeles eastbound a few hours early to avoid getting entangled in the Arizona track upkeep work.
narig01 (3-5):
K.P. saw the TRAINS Newswire story, but the Albuquerque news story was an extra treat.
(For those that can’t access the TRAINS Newswire of March 4, 2014, the key Santa Teresa date is May 28, 2014 for the Grand Opening of the complex.)
Super Hunky (3-10):
As mentioned to you previously, accessing the Grand Terrace-Highgrove, CA final truss bridges site is difficult. Probably the only way to get a real good look is a helicopter, which is prohibitively expensive.
Speaking of helicopters, K.P. is privy to an investigative effort concerning Cajon Pass, some 30 miles plus or minus from West Colton Yard, which yard is on the Sunset Route, but that effort is proving to be elusively frustrating. So much so that a “free” helicopter is being looked at now, i.e., a local news chopper. What is in (or was in) Cajon Pass railroad-wise would freak out most of us here at the forum, and leave us numb with disbelief at what might be proved true. If a helicopter option is taken, and I get to ride along, I might suggest to those flying the copter the news value of the truss bridges that we are talking about. Outside of that, forumites’ visual views of the new BNSF bridge construction over I-215 will continue to be very limited.
Pete-M3 (3-13):
Ah, welcome to the forum!
You’ve hit upon an issue that I think MikeF90 eloquently said it best about in his March 14, 2014 reply post, in saying, “I'm not sure if we'll ever figure out how UP tallies these miles.”
Compounding the confusion is track arrangements at each END of the Los Angeles, CA to El Paso, TX stretch of the Sunset Route, loosely understood as the theme area on this thread.
On the eastern end, approaching El Paso from the west is an old paired track situation, the northern route of Southern Pacific (SP), the southern route of the El Paso and Southwestern (EP&SW). Exactly where in El Paso is the starting point is also in question.
On the western end, two routes again present themselves, the Southern Pacific and the Los Angeles & Salt Lake (LA&SL). Between Pomona and Los Angeles, the LA&SL is already two-tracked, the SP isn’t.
Maybe someday UP will be nice enough to clarify exactly what they mean in their tally figures.
Compounding the confusion is the general counterclockwise orientation in the Los Angeles basin. That orientation (a prudent one) runs counter to the two-tracking effort, so I personally envision a new flyover sometime in the future in Pomona, CA, and the not activated crossover switch types of the new switches in Pomona seems to suggest that too.
So, Pete-M3, sit back and enjoy all the theorizing and mysteries in this thread …
eolesen (3-14):
I think you made a good clarifying point about when a section of two-tracking is finished, i.e., finished is when everything, including tie renewals ALONGSIDE a new second main, is complete.
denveroutlaw06 (3-19):
Poster cacole conveyed an answer to your inquiry quite well.
But, don’t feel bad. I have so many threads that are tried to be kept up on and so many things happening among them sometimes I get overwhelmed. I’ve never ever had illegal drugs, but the forum is addictive. What shall we call it? Crack posting?
SP657E44 (3-19):
Ames does a lot of railroad work in many places. But, even the list of their other non-railroad projects is impressive!
One thing I’ve noticed is their leeriness about anyone with a camera. But, once they realize that one is only a railfan with train watching interests, are on their side, and not one out to get or sue them, they seem to warm up.
Take care, everyone,
K.P.
Yesterday I uploaded new ATCS layouts to the Yahoo group for the UP Yuma and BNSF Cajon Subs if anybody is interested. The signal software at Colton and Gonzales was upgraded this past weekend, so you'll need the new files to monitor these locations.
Clyde
High Points of a Friday Outing
On Friday, March 21, 2014 K.P.’s dispatch allowed him to check on the SP Vineyard Ave. underpass construction situation in Ontario, CA. That grade crossing is history! The Streeter Ave. underpass construction is in a magical four-day transition period …
… with TWO pairs of signals now on site and activity everywhere! The grade crossing has only one crossing gate! The 91 Freeway railroad bridge still has the temporary construction switch installed and the old bridge continues to be used. And, even another truss bridge has started (“started”) assembly in Grand Terrace on the BNSF portion of the alternate Sunset Route.
Details and photos in a day or two …
Update as of Friday, March 21, 2014
Ontario, Riverside, Grand Terrace, CA
Part I (of I-XI)
Ontario’s Vineyard Ave. grade crossing is history (gone)!
An earthmover was seen. It had come west to Vineyard Ave., U-turned, and headed back east.
When K.P. was onsite, a truck-pulled trailer with reals of cabled passed. Note the signal on the left.
Continued in Part II
Part II (of I-XI)
The signal just west of the old Vineyard Ave. grade crossing lit yellow over yellow.
Just above, the only thing that remains of the old grade crossing are grade crossing concrete panels between the rails. Everything else is gone.
The train came for the yellow over yellow signal, and passed a wide strip of what appeared to be freshly grading north side right-of-way. It is too early yet to interpret if the shoofly will be single-track or an extension eastward of two-tracks from CP AL521 NORTH ONTARIO.
What appeared to be surveyors arrived on site and started setting up their trade’s equipment.
K.P. check a few other key places in Ontario, but there were noting to report, and then left for Riverside.
Continued in Part III
Part III (of I-XI)
Streeter Ave. on the alternated Sunset Route, on the LA&SL, was found to be temporarily completely closed.
The underpass bridge (“bridge”) apparently was sufficiently finished to allow trains to traverse it, so the Friday of this outing was the first day of a four day transition period where no vehicle traffic could pass the site.
Continued in Part IV
Part IV (of I-XI)
The bad news for motorists:
Continued in Part V
Part V (of I-XI)
Where the old west side temporary north crossing gate was, but is no more
The east side south crossing gate was still present.
We now move over to Dewey Ave., parallel to the tracks on the south side. A westbound view:
A water truck was doing its things.
Continued in Part VI
Part VI (of I-XI)
The shoofly has parapet-like temporary walling for it right on Dewey Ave.
Continued in Part VII
Part VII (of I-XI)
Lunch time apparently was over, and a whole bunch of workers walked by, more so than the photo conveys.
Familiar railroad vehicles:
Continued in Part VIII
Part VIII (of I-XI)
Then heavy equipment started doing its thing.
Continued in Part IX
Part IX (of I-XI)
A stop was made at the Panorama Rd. grade crossing.
But nothing new stood out. It was thought that by now the new, larger bridge over the 91 Freeway would be in service, but the temporary switch was still in place and the old bridge still in service.
Continued in Part X
Part X (of I-XI)
The rest of the day for the most part was spent in the Perris-Lake Elsinore area. Late that afternoon K.P. finally passed through Grand Terrace and the BNSF truss bridges being assembled by the I-215 Freeway on the alternate Sunset Route.
The background bridge had that grayish structuring now also, towards the truss bridges’ bottoms
Steal-work could be seen in the background for another bridge (left).
Continued in Part XI
Part XI (of I-XI)
The new structure can actually be seen now in its infancy and early stages of construction (far right).
The light was failing so fast the photos taken were now on the blurry side. But, one could discern the assembly was only a single-track structure.
The northbound I-215 Freeway was so clogged with cars and slow moving trucks, K.P. took La Cadena Dr. to Colton, and checked that area out. There did not appear to be anything new to report. HOWEVER, going over the Sunset Route and the BNSF Connector and Track 112 overpass in the darkness, plus also as seen from the I-10 eastbound onramp, there was a super brilliant lunar-like light trackside on the south side of the tracks. Had a lunar signal been erected in advance of the BNSF controlled absolute signal for Track 112? K.P. looped around for another look.
Trackside, there was NO pot signal for Track 112 and everything was the same. There was, however, a common small trackside utility box (commonly used in conjunction with track circuits) with a light on it, typical of so many electrical boxes. K.P. got on the freeway again, and that non-incandescent light was the one that was so brilliant when seen just a bit before. It almost had a blinding nature to it.
This will conclude the series.
On Wednesday March 19 I drove down the 91 freeway for the fist time since the new U.P. bridge was built in Riverside CA. Did see that the locals have tagged each end of the new bridge on the south side.
PHIMF construction update
Yesterday I visited the PHIMF area to note any new construction. From a hill south of WM road, an overview shot of the new 'yard' was taken. It appears that two tracks have been completed with more being built. It is also possible to see track panels on both sides of the LA sub mains - hard to say 'what' will shift 'where' at this time. From the same hill looking more west, the construction of a retaining wall just east of Peck Road can be seen. Note the metal pole HV tower at the photo left side. Now at the undercrossing looking east, the new track support pier can be seen (same HV tower also on the left edge). Looking at the west side of the road, construction of the other pier has not started. They have had troubles at this site, finding old concrete bridge piers buried. It appears that they have to build two parallel retaining walls - first for the ubercritical LA sub main tracks and then one for the PHIMF siding. The first retaining wall uses 'multiple strand' drilled anchors that I haven't seen before. The first photo shows yet another HV tower in close proximity.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
Just came across this article in the Yuma Sun from last December. UP is moving their crew office to the east side of Yuma. The address is just east of the CP Pacific universal crossover, making it possible for eastbounds Not to stop on the single track Colorado River bridge.
Having just read the Yuma Sun article and Google Earthed this landscape from above with keen interest, one cannot help but conclude (in no particular order) that:
1) The new yard office seems to be out in the middle of nowhere, relative to the old one
2) UP may need to install one or two more tracks adjacent to the new yard office to allow for meets and overtakes during crew change
3) It may pay UP to expedite adding second track between the end of double track east of the new yard office and Fortune, a distance of 2-3 miles
This thinking goes back to the notion that the biggest capacity constraints on the Sunset Route lies not with the absence of double track but the lack of terminal capacity.
A final observation (or, maybe, question): when, oh when, will UP begin to ratchet up the traffic (in trains per day) over the Sunset Corridor? The railroad must have easily pumped a billion dollars into double-tracking from El Paso to Estrella, AZ and between Beaumont, CA and Thermal, CA (plus a couple of stretches in between; in constructing the new terminal at Santa Teresa, NM; in upgrading West Colton Yard and the lines between West Colton and downtown LA; in eliminating the at-grade bottleneck at West Colton with BNSF by building the West Colton Flyover, and by starting work on the other major bottleneck at the other end of the line extended (at Tower 55, Ft. Worth); and finally, in upgrading capacity across West Texas between El Paso and Ft. Worth. They can't plow these huge bucks into this corridor and its approaches without, sometime fairly soon, increasing the traffic and beginning to reap the reward.
billio Having just read the Yuma Sun article and Google Earthed this landscape from above with keen interest, one cannot help but conclude (in no particular order) that: 1) The new yard office seems to be out in the middle of nowhere, relative to the old one
Having spent considerable business travel time in Yuma, one could argue that The Whole Town is 'out in the middle of ...'. The existing office is in the oldest, arguably the most 'run down' part of town that is struggling with redevelopment. Getting anywhere to eat or sleep from trackside will require but a short drive in a crew van to S 4th Avenue, E 16th Street and E 32nd Street venues.
billio 2) UP may need to install one or two more tracks adjacent to the new yard office to allow for meets and overtakes during crew change 3) It may pay UP to expedite adding second track between the end of double track east of the new yard office and Fortuna, a distance of 2-3 miles
3) It may pay UP to expedite adding second track between the end of double track east of the new yard office and Fortuna, a distance of 2-3 miles
Having watched the Yuma sub dispatching on ATCSMon, they do pretty well unless eastbound and westbound fleets get there close to the same time. The DS can hold traffic on those sections of 2MT that are close by. When needed, crew vans can rescue the ones going DOL pretty quickly - advantage of being near BFE. You are correct, if traffic grows as desired they'll have to fill in those single track gaps and add staging sidings in town.
billioThis thinking goes back to the notion that the biggest capacity constraints on the Sunset Route lies not with the absence of double track but the lack of terminal capacity. A final observation (or, maybe, question): when, oh when, will UP begin to ratchet up the traffic (in trains per day) over the Sunset Corridor? .. snip ...
A final observation (or, maybe, question): when, oh when, will UP begin to ratchet up the traffic (in trains per day) over the Sunset Corridor? .. snip ...
MikeF90 billio ...A final observation (or, maybe, question): when, oh when, will UP begin to ratchet up the traffic (in trains per day) over the Sunset Corridor? .. snip ... Good question that I can't answer. Observers besides me marvel at the variation between trains that run almost on each others blocks alternating with hours of silence. At any rate, UP's investment on this corridor seems to have slowed down - 30 to 40 miles of new track per year. Not sure if they are counting on some West Texas 'shale' oil to flow to SoCal this way ....
billio ...A final observation (or, maybe, question): when, oh when, will UP begin to ratchet up the traffic (in trains per day) over the Sunset Corridor? .. snip ...
...A final observation (or, maybe, question): when, oh when, will UP begin to ratchet up the traffic (in trains per day) over the Sunset Corridor? .. snip ...
In more LA sub trackage rights (BNSF) news, the first span of the new triple track RR bridge over I-215 will be moved on April 2 (Press-Enterprise article link). Yes, that's on a Wednesday night.
Is the Enemy Among Us?
Time Marches On
On Monday, March 24, 2014 about noon Pacific Daylight Time K.P. got wind of a sudden and strange development, and by 3 P.M. was on the road to San Bernardino (CA), where he picked up something simple, and had to deliver it in Venice near Santa Monica.by 8 P.M.
On the way the new truss bridges under construction in Grand Terrace (near Colton) was stopped at.
At CP EAST REDONDO in Los Angeles some time was spent, but all was quiet. A light power move finally came by, though.
It was getting dark, and K.P. had to get to Venice.
He finally got back about midnight with a small stash of photos.
The next day with nothing on the agenda, the TRAINS Magazine forum was checked. But, it acted strangely. Suddenly, the trainsmag.com address changed to READ.cti.????.com (with ???? unremembered), and the screen went dark.
After the destructive computer virus, it took till late Saturday night to get the computer back up and running again.
Without a computer, K.P. visited Grand Terrace Friday, March 28. The new truss bridge under construction had made dramatic construction progress.
It was getting dark, and K.P. checked on the “bright light” west of Colton Crossing that was previously reported. It was on a trackside electrical box, but was not as bright as seen a few days previously. Had the bulb been changed out? Who knows!
As time permits, more photos of the above matters are hoped to be posted this week as time permits.
Concerning the positioning of the new BNSF truss bridges over the I-215 Freeway in Grand Terrace-Highgrove (CA) (on the alternate Sunset Route), as a once rather local resident of the area, I somehow envision problems with freeway closures, and rescheduling might need to be made. But, time will tell on that. K.P. just doesn’t see how a slow moving freeway with three lanes per direction will function with a single-lane in each direction detour of precarious proportions.
As far as the news of the crew change point and office being relocated in Yuma, AZ, K.P. thinks he understands what is going on, and will post on this sometime in a few days.
Anyway, watch out for computer viruses! May I suggest Deep Freeze, linked below.
LINK: http://www.faronics.com/
Deep Freeze gives absolute protection from viruses, and is well worth the money. It is tricky at first, but once a personal conceptually understands how it works and the ‘thaw space,’ one will have peace of mind. K.P. is NOT connected with the firm in any way, outside of purchasing their products.
Take care all.
The Truss Bridges Review
Grand Terrace, CA
Part “A” (of A-E, Plus Second to Fourth Sections)
Photos Taken Monday, March 21, 2014
The first truss bridging: Railing being prepared to be positioned on the bridge:
Partial railing previous to photo time that was installed:
The third bridging: Wood similar to ties, but shorter.
Continued in Part B
Part “B” (of A-E, Plus Second to Fourth Sections)
A lot of crane-like equipment:
The third (foreground) and second (background) constructed bridges.
This nice gentleman gets paid to climb around on this giant jungle gym!
Continued in Part C
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