Top Notch...thanks!
This might be a tad more interesting to some of you:
Miningman, you can give your Paul & Sues a workout...
Thanks K.P. I have ridden every route that Amtrak has into or out of LAX. Coast Starlight, San Diego, Sunset, Desert Wind, and Southwest Chief. The use of flyovers is more common there than enywhere else I've been. And who would have predicted that when Amtrak commenced in 71 that L.A. would have the passenger rail traffic it has today. WOW. Union Station is packed. Between transit and Amtrak, it may need to be expanded. Any info on the new South track access plan?
Electroliner 1935 (12-15):
Your inquiry post was perhaps the most interesting one I’ve seen in years.
The Desert Wind followed the Santa Fe route from San Bernardino, though Pasadena and on to Los Angeles, the Pasadena Sub, originally called the “Second District.” That described route through Pasadena is what you rode on when traveling on the Desert Wind. The western part is now the light rail Gold Line.
The tunnel you described is where the tracks traveling westward in the middle of the 210 Freeway turns south.
June 8, 2009
The UP (SP) Alhambra Sub is a few miles to the south, and is not associated with the old Santa Fe line in any way. The San Gabriel Trench is on the Alhambra Sub
Metrolink travels westward from San Bernardino to Pomona on the old Santa Fe Second District Super Chief route, then transfers to the SP (PE) and goes on to Los Angeles. Unless you rode Amtrak’s Sunset Limited you never were on the Sunset Route. That Metrolink line out of San Bernardino when it gets to the UP (PE) flyover over the Sunset Route in the Bassett-El Monte area:
May 16, 2010
The 210 Freeway you mentioned riding down the middle of is now the Gold Line two-track commuter line.
The above light rail photo is near that spot to the west where the Second District went under the eastbound lanes of the 210 Freeway.
So, Electroliner 1935, it is hoped that clarifies matters for you and that your nostalgic ride in this thread was a good one!
K. P.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
KP, Was the Alhambra Sub the route of the Desert Wind as I suspect? My memory of my trip on it was going out the middle of a congested freeway with a beverage in my had in the sightseer car and feeling for the drivers we were passing. Shame Amtrak dropped it.
Also is it the route of the Gold line? My memory was we went through a tunnel like area in Pasadena on that line. And did the Santa Fe ever use that route?
MikeF90 (12-14)
The Alhambra Sub between Los Angeles and Pomona often (quite often, matter of fact) has sidings with Intermodal equipment in them, as with the El Monte siding on May 14, 2010.
So, the line is NOT a key part of the Sunset Route anymore, whereas the LA&SL line to the south is now. Thus, if Metrolink by agreement laid a track alongside the current freight track, and if UP could use that track too, it would seem UP would not have any objections. NO stations would be on the extra overflow addition.
The Metrolink line down the I-10 Freeway CANNOT have an additional track laid, at least not without spending super exorbitant amounts of taxpayers money for an elevated bridging for maybe 10 miles. July 8, 2011 photos:
The latter photo is where a very short CTC siding is located in the middle of the I-10 Freeway. The strange area where the freeway has the center go out for a very, very short ways was so Pacific Electric freight could be loaded or unloaded decades ago.
It should be remembered that Metrolink dispatches the line along the Los Angeles River in Los Angeles (connecting the Los Angeles Sub with the Alhambra Sub), and for freights to use that line is NOT a free flowing matter. At least TWO flyovers in downtown Los Angeles area would be needed for free flowingness. Whether Metrolink would pay for such is questionable, but it would be to Metrolink’s advantage to do so.
So, it would seem the concept of a new Metrolink track following the Alhambra Sub from El Monte to Los Angeles, through the San Gabriel Trench, would benefit ALL parties concerned. The way I see it, Mike, is that a new track would only be an overflow route, allowing rush hour train sets to return without hindrance for another rush hour run.
It must be pointed out that the above thoughts are just mine, and not official ones, at least as far as I know.
K.P.
K. P. HarrierBut, as mentioned previously, it amazes me that Metrolink does not attempt to lay a track partially through the Alhambra Trench and fully through the San Gabriel Trench, running the north side of UP’s line all the way east to El Monte, missing their station there.
Several huge obstacles to this: a) UP will have to give permission (after it stops raining snowballs in Hades), b) Metrolink would have to have the vision and a viable plan to build a station on the Alhambra sub (very unlikely with their current bonehead CEO) and c) Metrolink would have to raise substantial funds (also unlikely).
K. P. HarrierAbout photos, a visit to my old photobucket.com account was inspired by your post. It was a nightmare trying to get in and see my photos, which are all there, but it was so troublesome and consumed so much time that such a troublesome company should be illegal.
Yah, PB eliminated the bulk (album) download feature just to make it more difficult to exit. I found that viewing the pics in a slideshow, pausing, then using the right click menu to Save Image was adequate for my ~200 pics. Account deleted, job done.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
K. P. Harrier Replies desertdog (11-25): That was great news about the overpass construction starting on the Highway 347 overpass over the Sunset Route. I take it you haven’t been out that way for some time. Traditionally, it takes quite a while to discern that a bridge is even being constructed at a grade crossing. It is hoped to get to Yuma in January, but I think I’ll wait a while to visit Maricopa. BUT, it is understood from aerials that much of the work can be done on what is now vacant land, so we might see something evident before we normally would. kgbw49 (12-10): Your inquiry was difficult for me to interpret, but I suspect your question was asked on the basis of being unfamiliar with the location. In that light, the following is an ‘interpretive’ answer of your question with historic background details. Circa 1978, almost forty years ago, the Alhambra Trench (bottom of the two photos in the post you were replying to) was not there. When the Alhambra Trench was built a graded “ramp” lowered the track by the west side of San Gabriel into it. A few years ago with the construction of the San Gabriel Trench, the ramp was relocated several hundred feet west (towards the camera in those photos). Now, with the ramp no longer needed and the track relocated to through the San Gabriel Trench, that “ramp” will soon be graded down (i.e., eliminated) so two-tracks will be level, though there are presently no plans for a second-track to be laid. In the next several months the end product could be photographed from the same photo location (Chapel Ave.) and a relatively level, concrete lined trench will easily be able to be seen from one city to the next. Let me know if that clarifies matters. MikeF90 (12-10): Nothing has ever been heard officially about a second track in the San Gabriel Trench. But, as mentioned previously, it amazes me that Metrolink does not attempt to lay a track partially through the Alhambra Trench and fully through the San Gabriel Trench, running the north side of UP’s line all the way east to El Monte, missing their station there. That would allow returning commuter trains to avoid rush hour trains on the SINGLE-TRACK down the center of the 10 Freeway. Of course, if spending money is the name of the game, an elevated two-track line down the 10 Freeway may make them happier … About photos, a visit to my old photobucket.com account was inspired by your post. It was a nightmare trying to get in and see my photos, which are all there, but it was so troublesome and consumed so much time that such a troublesome company should be illegal. A few days ago for this thread I uploaded 39 photos at ONE TIME to postimage.org, and it did so flawlessly, and rather quickly too. I just can’t figure out the difference in mentalities between the two outfits. desertdog (12-11): You are most likely right, John, that the fire dept. would probably run lines to the San Gabriel Trench’s vertical piping if there was a fire in the trench. And, such is more likely than not, especially with GE power notoriously catching fire and flames shoot skyward. Best to all, K.P.
Replies
desertdog (11-25):
That was great news about the overpass construction starting on the Highway 347 overpass over the Sunset Route.
I take it you haven’t been out that way for some time. Traditionally, it takes quite a while to discern that a bridge is even being constructed at a grade crossing. It is hoped to get to Yuma in January, but I think I’ll wait a while to visit Maricopa. BUT, it is understood from aerials that much of the work can be done on what is now vacant land, so we might see something evident before we normally would.
kgbw49 (12-10):
Your inquiry was difficult for me to interpret, but I suspect your question was asked on the basis of being unfamiliar with the location. In that light, the following is an ‘interpretive’ answer of your question with historic background details.
Circa 1978, almost forty years ago, the Alhambra Trench (bottom of the two photos in the post you were replying to) was not there. When the Alhambra Trench was built a graded “ramp” lowered the track by the west side of San Gabriel into it. A few years ago with the construction of the San Gabriel Trench, the ramp was relocated several hundred feet west (towards the camera in those photos).
Now, with the ramp no longer needed and the track relocated to through the San Gabriel Trench, that “ramp” will soon be graded down (i.e., eliminated) so two-tracks will be level, though there are presently no plans for a second-track to be laid. In the next several months the end product could be photographed from the same photo location (Chapel Ave.) and a relatively level, concrete lined trench will easily be able to be seen from one city to the next.
Let me know if that clarifies matters.
MikeF90 (12-10):
Nothing has ever been heard officially about a second track in the San Gabriel Trench. But, as mentioned previously, it amazes me that Metrolink does not attempt to lay a track partially through the Alhambra Trench and fully through the San Gabriel Trench, running the north side of UP’s line all the way east to El Monte, missing their station there. That would allow returning commuter trains to avoid rush hour trains on the SINGLE-TRACK down the center of the 10 Freeway. Of course, if spending money is the name of the game, an elevated two-track line down the 10 Freeway may make them happier …
About photos, a visit to my old photobucket.com account was inspired by your post. It was a nightmare trying to get in and see my photos, which are all there, but it was so troublesome and consumed so much time that such a troublesome company should be illegal.
A few days ago for this thread I uploaded 39 photos at ONE TIME to postimage.org, and it did so flawlessly, and rather quickly too. I just can’t figure out the difference in mentalities between the two outfits.
desertdog (12-11):
You are most likely right, John, that the fire dept. would probably run lines to the San Gabriel Trench’s vertical piping if there was a fire in the trench. And, such is more likely than not, especially with GE power notoriously catching fire and flames shoot skyward.
Best to all,
K.P.,
I'm hoping one way or the other to get down to Maricopa during the semester break to take some pix.
John Timm
rcdrye The fire department connection is referred to as a "standpipe". They're pretty common in buildings. Typical connection would be hydrant -> pumper -> standpipe.
The fire department connection is referred to as a "standpipe". They're pretty common in buildings. Typical connection would be hydrant -> pumper -> standpipe.
The upper connection is a clappered arrangement - a form of check valve. The fire department can connect from one to three lines, and use any of the connections.
Interesting that they've used Knox locking caps instead of the usual breakaway version.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I believe the fire department would bring a pumper in to supply water to the connections you show.
Review of the Now in Service …
… San Gabriel Trench
Vicinity of San Gabriel, CA
Part “L” (of A-L)
The bakery on the northwest side of the Walnut Grove Ave. grade crossing:
K.P. went into the bakery to talk with someone as how business was now that Walnut Grove Ave. was open again at the track, but the place was now packed with patrons. It was obvious without talking to anyone that business had returned to normal, with NO opportunity to even talk to the cashier, unlike before with virtually no customer when the grade crossing was closed for a long time.
I guess the bakery is called “El Pavo Bakery.”
Walnut Grove Ave. was very packed with motorists, unbelievably so!
So, there we have it. Work continues, but trains are now traveling through and inside the trench, even though no trains were actually seen in the trench this visit.
Official documents of the past gave TWO lengths of the trench, one a mile longer than the other. K.P. wonders if there might be a Phase II of the San Gabriel Trench, lowering the tracks under Walnut Grove Ave. The bakery probably hopes not. And, K.P. questions it because of what looks like rising concrete in Part I’s third photo. Time will tell about the future. Interestingly, the trench from San Gabriel Blvd. eastward only has a concrete floor part way to Walnut Grove Ave.
This will complete the series.
Part “K” (of A-L)
Still at Ramona Street back in San Gabriel, CA, looking west:
Above, notice the lights on the cars on the upper right. It was getting dark very fast!
Looking east from Ramona Street, north of the trench, on the south side of Mission Road: The new street lights are a nice addition, about on the ex-shoofly!
The ex-shoofly route looking westbound:
The track in the trench on the west side of Ramona Street:
Now we go back to the east side of the San Gabriel Trench. And, it is getting real dark now.
Continued in Part L
Part “J” (of A-L)
A heavy westward telephoto blow-up view beyond the San Gabriel Trench into the Alhambra Trench: Note the east side westbound mast signal in the distance at CP AL488 ALHAMBRA, that it has two heads. So, even with an equilateral (wye) switch there, one route is considered a “turnout” route!
K.P. is inclined to believe the situation at Wellton, AZ is comparable and the wye switch there at CP SP771 WELLTON will remain, with the north track, Main 1, having a red over signal AS IF IT TOO involved a “turnout” instead of a wye switch even though the wye switch will remain.
On K.P.’s last visit to Wellton, AZ no new signals had been brought to CP SP771 WELLTON yet, though a new, uninstalled CP box was on site.
Above November 19, 2017 view previously shown.
Continued in Part K
Part “I” (of A-L)
Close-up downward view from the west side of Ramona Street:
A westward overview:
Just above, note the ramping effect of the line previously just above photo center.
A westward view with an emphasis on the dirt:
Above, on the upper right is the M.P. 490 marker.
Continued in Part J
Part “H” (of A-L)
We backtrack a bit … Now at Ramona Street, the west sidewalk as seen from the south has an illusion appearance. It almost looks like the sidewalk drops straight down, but it doesn’t.
Rebar cylinders for cement pouring are now on site.
Shiny rails for a lowering sun are seen in this westward view from Ramona Street. Likely, the dirt on the right will remain and vertical cylinders dug down. Dirt was used for the rest of the trench previously. If it was not built that we, the main road on the right could collapse into the trench.
Continued in Part I
Part “G” (of A-L)
Still at Del Mar. Ave., looking eastbound towards the curving trench:
West again, looking through the fine wire meshing:
A strange help at the bottom of the trench: Water piping for emergency responders in event of a fire in the trench.
But, the top of the trench pipe has to be hooked onto for there to be water!
Above, it looks as if three hoses could be connected, with TWO hook-ups below.
Continued in Part H
Part “F” (of A-L)
We now travel east to Del Mar Ave. and see the west sidewalk is totally complete.
Looking west from Del Mar Ave.: Note the darkening side of the wall in the photo center, caused by diesel smoke?
From Del Mar Ave., looking west on the ex-shoofly:
Eastward:
Continued in Part G
Part “E” (of A-L)
West of the fencing by that channel, looking eastbound:
Looking west:
Eastward again, equipment was parked on the roadway-like strip south of the trench.
An eastward view from on the Chapel Ave. overpass: The cross piping blocks a good view, but one can imagine what is going on construction-wise.
Above, the focus seems to be on constructing the north part of the bridge over the wash now that the shoofly is out of the way.
Continued in Part F
Part “D” (of A-L)
By the Alhambra Flood Control Channel on the west side of the trench looking eastbound
As seen above, the building of the western north side of the trench is full sway now that the shoofly is out of the way.
The intermediate signals on a mast. It is unknown how exactly the trench people will dig the trench with the signals’ small box in the way on the photo upper left.
Heavy equipment is in that signal area.
A rebar cylinder was on site, a precursor to the many yet to come for the remaining walling to be erected now that the shoofly is out of the way.
Continued in Part E
Part “C” (of A-L)
From San Gabriel Blvd., looking west on the ex-shoofly:
Over the trench now, looking west, all the rocks seen are for cementing in the middle strip of San Gabriel Blvd.
Now, we go towards the western part of the trench.
Continued in Part D
Part “B” (of A-L)
Now on San Gabriel Blvd. approaching the trench from the southeast, it was found to NOT have the sidewalks in yet. The other ex-grade crossings had the new sidewalks in and usable.
Really adverse sun lighting (I think) caused the eastward view from San Gabriel Blvd. to look so strange. But, at least you can make out the view looking towards where we were previously, at the redone Walnut Grove Ave. grade crossing.
North of the trench, looking eastbound, the ex-shoofly route is having work done on it.
Continued in Part C
Part “A” (of A-L)
Before we start, between photos of the San Gabriel Trench, a quick side trip west to CP AL484 WORTH was made, that CP with an east side westbound single lamp head over a single lamp head arrangement.
While K.P. wanted to badly see and photograph a train in the trench, NO train came. After taking the above photo, and a little to the west, a train DID come, trapping him and a whole bunch of other people on a side street! And, of course, the train stopped! Tempers of people off work now were blazing, and K.P. was expecting a bunch car interiors to catch fire at any time …
Now, the trench report …
At Walnut Grove Ave., looking eastbound, the track slightly curves into the San Gabriel Trench.
Above, the camera position is on the previous track alignment.
Looking westbound at the San Gabriel Blvd. new overpass:
All the old shoofly is gone now.
Continued in Part B
kgbw49Is that a ramp for a second track down to the trench being excavated in that photo of the "West End now"?
Now that the new 'south' track through the trench is operational, the old 'north' track and bridge will be / have been removed. The new bridge will be lower, allowing a lesser grade into the trench. It is unknown if a second track will be laid at this time.
[Just confirmed that my old PB links are also dead, time to download and move the older photos.]
Is that a ramp for a second track down to the trench being excavated in that photo of the "West End now"?
The San Gabriel Trench, San Gabriel, CA
K.P. visited it yesterday, Friday, December 8, 2017, and the track in the trench is now in service! And, has been in service for a month, according to onsite personnel …
The east end:
Before:
Now:
West end:
In the next several days K.P. hopes to post more trench photos.
The San Gabriel Trench, the Next One …
… to the West, and Wellton, AZ
A few of the photos taken Friday barely show the next CP mast signal way to the west, and from those photos K.P. came to a very different conclusion about the future track arrangement at CP SP771 WELLTON in Arizona. Both CP’s have a “Southern Pacific” wye switch. The new Wellton, AZ intermediate not in service yet signals at Avenue 29E don’t support the present wye switch at CP SP771 WELLTON, BUT K.P. believes that switch will remain nevertheless! You may come to that same conclusion too when seeing a San Gabriel Trench photo that shows “the next CP mast signal way to the west” in the Alhambra Trench. More details in the upcoming post series.
K.P. desires to visit Wellton AZ sometime in January, 2018, and hopefully the new color light mast signals at CP SP771 WELLTON will be up. If the new ones are alongside the present old target signals, K.P.’s guess was right. If the signals are in different locations, then the CP will likely have the trackwork revised.
If you like Christmas colors at night, then watch for an upcoming bridge photo in the “L.A. Gold Line Foothill Extension Updates” thread in the Transit forum.
The New Style Mast Signal Platforms …
… and a Related Offshoot Line
Part II (of I-II)
From the Tehachapi-Mojave area, towards Cajon Pass, at Johnson Road (M.P. 447.67), a new older style color light signal was very recently put up as an upgrade replacement.
So, there appears to be a ‘whatever is handy’ new color light replacements of the short, old color light signals that are almost forty years old now on that Palmdale Cutoff and south of Mojave.
For the record, two July 28, 2016 views of the short, old mast signals once at Johnson Road.
In comparing the two photo groups above, it appears UP is painting the electrical boxes tan. Whether that is unique to the Mojave Sub or will be adopted system wide is unknown.
That Mojave Sub’s south end wyes into the Sunset Route on the east side of West Colton Yard, in the Colton, CA area, about 56 miles east from downtown Los Angeles.
For those interested in the Tehachapi area, K.P. hopes to post a series in two or three days in the thread “TEHACHAPI: Two-Tracking Updates” tentatively titled, “Frustrated Again! Your Dog would Love it (and kids too). Why the Frustration, and the New Mast Signals to the South.”
Part I (of I-II)
As the “Sunset Route Two-Tracking Updates” thread readers know, UP has adopted a new type mast signal, with larger platforms for maintainers to work in, such as to change burnt out diode lamps, etc. Two previously shown views at CP SP768 WEST WELLTON in Arizona:
In Southern California some of those new style platformed signals were seen in the Salton Sea area. And, where a key CP is located nearby, where this contributor believes two-tracks will be extended eastward a mile sometime after the Positive Train Control pressure in over, older, used color light signals were used to replace targets.
However, K.P. was on Tehachapi Pass Friday, December 1, 2017 and south of Mojave he saw BOTH newer platformed and new regular platformed signal installations.
That above new mast signal, while K.P. saw nothing abnormal when on site, the mast in the photo looks slights tipsy.
The above is the first intermediate south of Mojave.
Continued in Part II
Work is underway on the SR 347 overpass project in Maricopa, AZ. Of interest is the requirement that it be wide enough to accomodate four tracks. Also, the general contractor, Ames, is the same company that performed much of the construction of the second main through the area.
http://www.inmaricopa.com/overpass-groundbreaking-set-for-nov-20/
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