Signaling Theories Confirmed as New Reality
Part “A” (of A-C)
In modern times UP has been using a yellow over lunar signal display mainly in ADVANCE of (1) a CP turnout into SIGNALED track that is slower than normal 30 M.P.H. siding speed or similar, or (2) a red over flashing red to go into DARK trackage. The problem with that was in itself there was no clear-cut proof of what was ahead, i.e., TWO possibilities existed. In one of those cases if the situation was misinterpreted it could have disastrous results.
Time warping back to June 8, 2009, what WAS then a revamping of the old CP SP538 RANCHO from targets to color lights, a four-bulb lower head was put up for westward movements that were on Main 2.
So, it could display a yellow over lunar in advance of red over flashing red at CP SP535 PEPPER (right mast signal facing away from the camera).
That right LOWER head only had a single red bulb, when lined into the yard the signal would display red over flashing red.
So, yellow over lunar WAS in advance of red over flashing red to go into West Colton Yard’s Departure Yard, which yard tracks were and still are unsignaled, dark trackage. .
Continued in Part B
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Regarding the ! symbol for sidings. In the System Special Instructions it states that the ! symbol denotes sidings and connected turnouts are 30 mph. But that doesn't necessarily mean every siding and connected turnout denoted by the symbol is 30mph. It's more of a default setting.
There is an "Explanation of Characters" used in the time tables that appears within both the SSI and individual time tables. In that key, the ! symbol means the signal that governs entrance to the siding can display an aspect more favorable than Lunar (Restricting).
In my territory, there a couple 40 mph sidings and one 20 mph siding that have the ! listed in the time table. The speeds for those particular sidings are listed in the subdivision special instructions.
So, if the ! appears at a station that has a siding and there is no specific speed listed for it, the speed by default is 30 mph. If there is a specific speed listed in the time table, it governs. I would agree it's a bit misleading since in last year's rules class the ! symbol was discussed and kind of said to mean any siding with it was 30 mph, and that isn't always true.
Jeff
K. P. Harrier Replies, Part II (of I-III) ccltrains (10-15): Thanks for your Texas dome train ride account. If your train had UP 8022, the power was a GE AC45CCTE (UP lingo, not GE’s). About your committee investigating having a commuter train from Shreveport, LA to Dallas, TX, I have no knowledge of that line’s train density. But, if it is light, UP would probably welcome the extra bucks with open arms. The opposite is happening on the Sunset Route between Los Angeles and Indio (I think it is still going on). Trying to run a high speed commuter train over a crowded, slow speed, heavy lugging freight trains over “Beaumont Hill” is absolutely ludicrous. Of course, if the Los Angeles-Indio commuter effort gets funding for triple-tracking Beaumont Hill, my suspicion is UP would welcome it with open arms … billio (10-15): About spending hundreds of millions of dollars for Positive Train Control (PTC), the TRAINS Newswire a day or so ago reported UP having a smashing operating ratio of 64.8% even with, I would assume, the PTC expenditures. Man, I have to get over to 1400 Douglas Street in Omaha, and photograph the blinding bright lights radiating out of the place from the gods therein! Continued in Part III
Replies, Part II (of I-III)
ccltrains (10-15):
Thanks for your Texas dome train ride account.
If your train had UP 8022, the power was a GE AC45CCTE (UP lingo, not GE’s).
About your committee investigating having a commuter train from Shreveport, LA to Dallas, TX, I have no knowledge of that line’s train density. But, if it is light, UP would probably welcome the extra bucks with open arms. The opposite is happening on the Sunset Route between Los Angeles and Indio (I think it is still going on). Trying to run a high speed commuter train over a crowded, slow speed, heavy lugging freight trains over “Beaumont Hill” is absolutely ludicrous.
Of course, if the Los Angeles-Indio commuter effort gets funding for triple-tracking Beaumont Hill, my suspicion is UP would welcome it with open arms …
billio (10-15):
About spending hundreds of millions of dollars for Positive Train Control (PTC), the TRAINS Newswire a day or so ago reported UP having a smashing operating ratio of 64.8% even with, I would assume, the PTC expenditures. Man, I have to get over to 1400 Douglas Street in Omaha, and photograph the blinding bright lights radiating out of the place from the gods therein!
Continued in Part III
The PTC expenditures are much more likely included in the capital budget, as opposed to the operating budget, and thus would not affect the operating ratio. Regardless, they could be having a negative effect on the speed with which the two-tracking project is currently proceeding.
John Timm
Replies, Part III (of I-III)
Super Hunky (10-16):
You asked about both the LA&SL Montclair and SP Industry facilities. K.P. has NO official word on either. However, I can share some observations and technical routing aspects.
The master plan is for West Colton Yard in Colton, CA to be the westbound sorting place, with the future Red Rock Yard in Red Rock, AZ being the eastbound counterpart.
Freight cars collected in the Los Angeles basin could be run eastbound straight to Red Rock, AZ and sorted there. In theory, there will be in the future no need to sort those cars or stage them somewhere on the way to Red Rock, a wide open area.
West Colton Yard by Colton, CA on the other hand is a hemmed in facility that cannot be expanded per se. Thus, there is little staging capability thereat. Because of that, apparently the new Montclair trackage is being put in. Forum contributor Clyde Acolita of UP has informed us that some of the new power switches in Montclair will not have signals. So, some moving around of blocks of cars will take place thereat. The problem is UP is kind of hemmed in even in Montclair, as they cannot have long blocks of cars involved in out and back moves because of nearby grade crossings. Maybe small cuts of cars could be handled that way, but not large ones, especially if remote control units will be used.
A monkey wrench in the Red Rock concept is some freight cars need to go to the Pacific Northwest, the Central Valley of California, or to the Central Corridor, like North Platte, NE where the giant Baily Yard is at, that actually has TWO large classification yards, a westbound one and an eastbond one! There is also a nice “Golden Spike” tower to look over that whole area.
Maybe West Colton Yard will still handle routings to the Pacific Northwest and the Central Corridor, like to North Plate, NE
I personally see little need for the Industry facility, so it is not surprising word is circulating about making that whole facility for Intermodal loading and unloading. If you’ve ever seen LATC in downtown Los Angeles with all the trucks bring trailers and containers to the facility, or carrying them away, it is like a beehive with everything crawling over everything! An expanding of Intermodal at Industry would surely take the load off of LATC, though nearby shippers surely would resist going to Industry on the local super congested streets, roadways, and freeways …
Anyway, Super Hunky, it is hoped the above gives you something to chew on concerning your inquiry, though unofficial of a reply as it may be.
Best to all,
K.P.
Replies, Part I (of I-III)
John Simpkins-Camp (10-14):
Northward on the 91 Freeway in Riverside, CA, if one once going under the new ‘humongous’ railroad bridge was to keep going north he would eventually be on I-15 in Cajon Pass, and maybe 10 miles north of Victorville would go under another railroad bridge.
LINK: Similar Spanned Bridge on the Freeway to Las Vegas
While comparable to the 91 Freeway bridge span-wise, the desert bridge is not nearly as humongous as the bridge in Riverside … at least it doesn’t look to be.
The desert-scape of the area of that bridge, and the freeway: Barstow and Las Vegas are miles behind the camera.
Why the humungous nature of one and not the other is not clear, but it may have to do with the two-track width for a curving track as opposed to the desert bridge with a track straight over it.
The technicalities of these things would make for a fascinating study in itself.
Continued in Part II
Private Eyeing the Illogical in Arizona
K.P. dropped in on one of his contacts here in Southern California, and while there that contact just happened to be contacted by a contact from the Phoenix, AZ area. What timing! The ensuing discussion centered on the Stockham area of Tucson, AZ.
Two June 3, 2012 reshown views of the WEST switch of the Stockham siding at CP SP978 STOCKHAM (M.P. 977.8) while two-tracking was in process (the whitish ballasted unfinished track on the right).
There had been a final 3.6 mile two-tracking gap to fill between CP SP976 KINO (M.P. 975.8) and CP SP979 STOCKHAM (M.P. 979.4), the latter is the east switch of the old north side Stockham siding (7890 feet in length), but said siding was EAST of the end of two-tracks from the east (all within one CP), i.e., the siding was accessible only from Main 1. Got that?
The siding is still the same 7890 feet in length, and the speed through it is still 25 M.P.H. However, the “!” symbol is in the updated timetable information (just as it was before), so the siding switches are of the 30 M.P.H. type. However, the east switch of the siding is listed with a speed limit of 40 M.P.H. Now, does that make sense? Call out the private eye investigators!
The situation appears to be ANOTHER case of UP listing a 30 M.P.H. switch as a 40 M.P.H. one (for whatever reason), then downgrading the speed to the normal 30 M.P.H., as was done at CP SP938 EAST PICACHO (M.P. 938.6) a year or two ago.
Those Picacho switches (the crossover ones once restricted to 40 M.P.H.) are now timetable listed as 25 M.P.H.!
So, that may be what is going on too at the east end of Stockham, presently listed as 40 M.P.H. but eventually likely will be timetabled as 30 or 25 M.P.H.
Previously, CP SP979 STOCKHAM was timetable listed as at M.P. 979.4, but now is listed as at M.P. 979.6, a fifth of a mile further east. So, the universal crossover arrangement that was just put in must be east of the siding switch, making the siding now accessible from both Main 1 and Main 2 on the east side. But, a field check is needed to confirm that.
That M.P. 979.6 area is, unfortunately, where the Prince Road overpass is currently being constructed, which construction is scheduled to be finished mid-January, 2014. When finished, K.P. hopes to walk up on that overpass and get photos of the new CP SP979 STOCKHAM sometime in the mid-January to the end of February timeframe.
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Continued with Replies
Update as of Sunday, October 13, 2013
Ontario-Montclair, Riverside, and Colton, CA
Part “R” (of I-R, Overall A-R)
Looking south (BNSF westbound) from “H” Street, BNSF’s San Bernardino Sub M.P. 3 is visible on the left, and the Colton Crossing signals are in the background. The Colton Flyover is hidden behind the I-10 Freeway top bridging sections.
Conjecturing, K.P. somehow envisions a new BNSF Track 3 being laid where the cantilever structure is presently at, reasoning why else would perfectly good mast and cantilever signals be converted to pot ones.
Side Notes
In the Highgrove-Grand Terrace area, the I-215 freeway constructed is dramatically progressing. However, surprisingly very little progress to none has taken place on the future railroad bridges over I-215. That alternate Sunset Route uses that BNSF rail line between Colton and Riverside to or from the LA&SL.
When K.P. started posting Parts I through R, the tally count listed for lookers at this thread was 777,777. Memorable number to start posting with …
This will conclude the series.
Part “Q” (of I-R, Overall A-R)
With regard to the BNSF Connector in the northwest quadrant of Colton Crossing, from “H” Street in Colton looking north (eastbound): The CP29 GONZALES mast heads are turned aside and the cantilever heads are missing, and replacement pot signals are functioning.
In the last photo above, the foreground tracks are, from left to right, UP (the BNSF Connector), Mains 1 and 3; the background tracks are BNSF Mains 1, 2, and 3.
Continued in Part R
Part “P” (of I-R, Overall A-R)
This visit the eastbound Mt. Vernon Connector diodes signal near Colton Crossing was yellow over red.
Continued in Part Q
Part “O” (of I-R, Overall A-R)
In the Colton Crossing southeast quadrant, by K Street, the local dogs were out in force this visit. K.P. doesn’t think they would bite, but always keeps one eye on them …
Even more ballast was pile up in the area, this time by Colton Crossing.
Continued in Part P
Part “N” (of I-R, Overall A-R)
A spring frog is also present.
The tail end of the well cars train approaches. The future Track 112 that will cross the BNSF will eventually be laid on the graded right-of-way this side of those well cars.
The signals no longer stay lit, but only when a train approaches (or are lined towards them) or is in the circuit:
Continued in Part O
Part “M” (of I-R, Overall A-R)
In Colton, by 4th Street, eastbound (rightward) well cars pass and go under I-10, and a group of concrete switch parts are now present.
K.P. is not certain what is here in this view, as ballast-less track seems to be present (photo bottom) …
A closer view:
Continued in Part N
Part “L” (of I-R, Overall A-R)
From Panorama Rd. on the west side of the 91 Freeway, an eastward view of new freeway walling, grading equipment, and a Metrolink over on the BNSF tracks.
There is still dirt piled up and equipment staged.
The old and new bridges are in the background. Since the ‘No Trespassing’ sign was erected K.P. has seen no locals short-cutting over either bridge.
Continued in Part M
Part “K” (of I-R, Overall A-R)
The old landfill has sloping dirt sides, but the new arrangement has concrete vertical sides.
Continued in Part L
Part “J” (of I-R, Overall A-R)
A mild telephoto of the new bridge:
A heavy telephoto of both bridges:
The west side:
Continued in Part K
Part “I” (of I-R, Overall A-R)
The UP side by side new and old though-plate girder bridges over the 91 Freeway in the City of Riverside:
Such bridges are often called pony bridges by reason of there being NO cross connections on their tops.
A wider view:
A head-on view of the side by side bridges:
Just above, note the old bridge on the left. It is straight, while the track curves through it. The new bridge on the right will utilize the same concept. Notice, too, the new sub-ballast curving route.
Continued in Part J
KP I am curious to know if UP is planning to take out the old Montclair Yard and replace it with a new longer yard working from the SP side over toward the LA&SL side. I recall some discussion somewhere that the old yard at City of Industry would be closed to make room for an expanded Intermodal Yard with the loose car work being moved to Montclair.
Part “H” (of A-H, Overall A-R)
Looking east, K.P. was surprised this visit by the double-stack cars in the old Montclair Yard.
An appropriate sign we normally don’t think of.
Looking east, the roadway is State St.
Above, the Sunset Route is the background tracks on the upper left. The LA&SL tracks parallel the roadway. Many trains utilizing the LA&SL as an alternated Sunset Route have come from or are going to Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas.
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Continued in Parts I-R scheduled for posting Thursday, October 17, 2013 by noon Pacific Daylight Time, and will be about the LA&SL Bridge over the 91 Freeway in Riverside, and Colton Flyover related material in Colton.
Part “G” (of A-H, Overall A-R)
Another westward view: Note the industrial track branching off on the bottom right. That likely was the reason a cantilever signal bridge was erected just beyond it.
Looking east again: The present signal between the old main (left, future Main 1) and the future Main 2 (middle) probably is the reason for the present squiggly nature of the future Main 2.
Note the three mast signals on the center bottom.
Continued in Part H
Part “F” (of A-H, Overall A-R)
From the Central Ave. overpass in Montclair, looking east on the SP-side: Two additional tracks will eventually be put in the empty strip in the photo middle.
Looking west: Monte Vista Ave. is the grade crossing towards the photo bottom.
Above, note the new crossover just the other side of Monte Vista Ave. Also, one of three new signals is on the lower left.
Continued in Part G
Part “E” (of A-H, Overall A-R)
Some ties, crates, and odds and ends between the LA&SL and SP sides.
Continued in Part F
Part “D” (of A-H, Overall A-R)
From under the Mountain Ave. underpass, looking northeast:
Above, the background Main 1 eastbound signal (left), the Main 2 eastbound signal (right), and the signal between the LA&SL and SP sides (tall). On the lower right is that powered switch without signals that Clyde Acolita posted about (Wednesday, October 9, 2013). On the lower left is a hand throw switch for the track heading northwest towards the SP side again.
That above last mentioned track is seen in the below June 30, 2013 reshown view from atop the Mountain Ave. overpass. Note the switch kind of appears to be a hand throw one.
However, now it is known that that switch is a powered one.
That suggests that it will be a powered switch without signals as in Mr. Acolita’s post, which implies mainline trains entering the facility would do so on a red over flashing red, i.e., slowly! Such long trains will undoubtedly ruffle the feathers of locals …
Continued in Part E
Part “C” (of A-H, Overall A-R)
On the SP-side still, just west of San Antonio Ave. is the switch (lower right) to the new Montclair facility, Main 2’s west side eastbound signal (upper center), and the power derail (left). The Mountain Ave. overpass is in the background.
A new signal (left. first below view) is now up between the SP and LA&SL.
Continued in Part D
Part “B” (of A-H, Overall A-R)
The new south side structure has not been erected yet (the base below is the one in the last photo in Part B). The LA&SL is in the distance.
About a block east of the San Antonio Ave. grade crossing is old west end signals of CP AL520 NORTH ONTARIO (left) and new signals of what is believed to be CP AL519 NORTH MONTCLAIR.
There is currently a new, couple of hundred feet length concrete tied section of track between signals at CP AL520 NORTH ONTARIO, on the north side of the tracks, by Emporia St.
That above track may be used just on the other side of the Sunset Route when the curved section of the west end of the North Ontario siding is removed and a replacement track goes straight west as Main 2.
Continued in Part C
Posting schedule:
Parts A-H: Wednesday, October 16, 2013
Ontario-Montclair
Parts I-R: Thursday, October 17, 2013 by noon Pacific Daylight Time
Riverside and Colton
Part “A” (of A-H, Overall A-R)
This presentation report will be on a general counterclockwise basis, and starts in Ontario, in the San Antonio Ave. area.
One cantilever structure in the temporary yard just west of San Antonio Ave. between the LA&SL and SP has been erected just a block away on the north side of the SP line.
The structure is so newly placed the flasher lights on the cantilever overhead part don’t work yet and are covered.
A side view looking west:
For comparison, a previous posted recent northwestward view before the background left flasher and gate unit was traded out for the cantilever arrangement.
Yes, the universal crossover and siding switch is part of East Stockham SP979. The west siding switch at West Stockham SP978 is unchanged.
Clyde Acolita The second main track between Sabino and Stockham was placed into service today. The north siding at Stockham remains as a CTC-controlled siding. Kino is history.
billio ... snip ... Couple of thoughts: the recent apparent slowness in work on the Sunset may be due to the need to plow a lot of capital into that @#!%& worthless abomination, PTC, and most recently, into rebuilding large sections of the DRGW that were washed away by flooding.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
billio Clyde Acolita The second main track between Sabino and Stockham was placed into service today. The north siding at Stockham remains as a CTC-controlled siding. Kino is history. If my geography and scorekeeping are correct, then UP owns a double-tracked railroad between Tucson and West Estrella; in fact, double tracked from El Paso to West Estrella. If so, HUZZAH!! And onward to California... Couple of thoughts: the recent apparent slowness in work on the Sunset may be due to the need to plow a lot of capital into that @#!%& worthless abomination, PTC, and most recently, into rebuilding large sections of the DRGW that were washed away by flooding.
The second main track between Sabino and Stockham was placed into service today. The north siding at Stockham remains as a CTC-controlled siding. Kino is history.
If my geography and scorekeeping are correct, then UP owns a double-tracked railroad between Tucson and West Estrella; in fact, double tracked from El Paso to West Estrella. If so, HUZZAH!!
And onward to California...
Couple of thoughts: the recent apparent slowness in work on the Sunset may be due to the need to plow a lot of capital into that @#!%& worthless abomination, PTC, and most recently, into rebuilding large sections of the DRGW that were washed away by flooding.
It's a far cry from when I first saw the Gila Sub in the late 50s. I have a poor, blurry photo of a pair of black widows that I took somewhere around Casa Grande. It was the only train I saw following the entire route from Yuma into New Mexico on what was then mostly pre-Interstate highway. A real change for the better.
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