Replies:
MikeF90 (4-10):
Great photo update, Mike!
In reviewing your photos and in personal visits to those sites … somewhere along the way new signals are going to have to be erected between Colton and Pomona at several CP’s and between them. As you know, a sole mast is up now by Bon View Ave. in Ontario; and masts are starting to pop up by Rancho Ave. in Colton.
Even the relatively new short mast by Riverside Ave. in Rialto …
… is going to have to be replaced with a taller two-headed mast, for yellow over yellow capability in advance of the big, new CP SP538 RANCHO.
Posting photos like you do sure helps all of us to keep abreast of current happenings ... Thanks!
mvs (4-14):
What is interesting about the Sunset Ave. future underpass in Banning, CA is that it will be …
LINK: Not a Typical Underpass
… but is on a railroad curve. That should make for an interesting shoofly arrangement.
ccltrains (4-14):
I’ve been in two sandstorms now chasing trains, and suffered NO windshield damage in either. And, no adverse mechanical things resulted. I really trust Hondas now! And, especially so after my Toyota’s transmission disintegrated … Toyota did poorly in a Camry government crash test recently … Oh, yah, I momentarily forgot that this is a railroad forum …
Being in a sandstorm and being able to barely see where one is going gives one a very strange feeling, as you likely have experienced yourself …
steve24944 (4-18):
Thanks for the info on the little YELLOW flags … natural gas pipelines underground.
eolesen (4-22):
Thanks so much for the update on track laying between Kino and Stockham. I’m sure it will be a while before that section is in service. But, I thought UP had left to do track laying in the Santa Teresa, NM area, but track laying is already back in the Tucson area! Cool.
John Simpkins-Camp (4-28):
That would be great if Caltrans would be so nice and thoughtful of railfans. But, having been to the Rancho Ave. onramp site, I’ve gotten the distinct impression there won’t be any parking area as at other locations. Oh well. But, the overpass itself is easily accessible …
A Tidbit about Grading Contrasts
The UP Sunset Route two-tracking grading is pretty straight forward, with culverts and simple flat grading, as at Niland, CA. Reshown photo taken February 8, 2013.
With public transit, such as the Los Angeles Metro Gold Line’s Foothill Extension, redoing the ex-Santa Fe Super Chief route is a bit more complicated.
The right-of-way has much piping being buried within it.
Oh, the simplicity of UP’s Sunset Route two-tracking …
Take care all,
K.P.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
denveroutlaws06 (4-29):
A number of Salton Sea area photo folders were went through, but as was thought, no photos of that “platform” could be found that you and others have mentioned the Border Patrol using to look down at passing trains.
It is desirable to get back out that way, but at this point in time, the when of such a visit is unknown.
Best,
i found a picture of it K.P. its the 7th picture
http://trn.trains.com/sitecore/content/Magazine%20Issues/2013/~/link.aspx?_id=473CE751C3C24EC394F4546A61D1005C&_z=z
denveroutlaws06 (5-1):
Humiliation Central
OK, denveroutlaw06, you’ve really given me an education … and humiliated me too! At lease I can laugh and see humor in it!
Now that you’ve linked a Kalmbach photo, I understand exactly what those ‘platforms’ are! For the last few years I thought those masts were early, future two-tracking signals! But, they are high up ‘platforms’ to inspect the trains for illegals with …
The north one:
The south unit:
So, in theory, the future real two-tracking signals could be erected at Frink Rd., conforming to modern signal placements, by grade crossings.
At least we all know the truth now, and truth is a valuable thing!
Thanks,
Couple of developments that may be of interest to thread followers:
1) Go to YouTube, search for "Pantano Railroad Bridge" and view posted two videos of the former Sunset Route ROW bridge over I-10 (where the rail line curved south of the Interstate near Marsh Station Road) being demolished. Posted March 2013.
2) The UP Analysts' Fact Book 2012 website, posted in the "Investors" section of the UP webpage, Page 33, a map of "Existing and Proposed Terminal Projects," shows work projected for the entire UP system, including the Sunset Route. Here, UP specifies work on the Santa Teresa Fueling Facility and Intermodal Ramp, on the Colton Flyover and double track between Pomona and West Colton (they don't specifically name the stretch, they only denote it with the legend on the map), and double track in Arizona between Tucson and Yuma, the exact work sites not otherwise indexed by name (NOIBN, to rail geeks). This is the best we get from a company that has become progressively more tight-lipped in specifying its capital plans since the feds forced it to explain what they were doing to fix the traffic meltdown of 2004-05.
3) Also in the UP website, under "Communites Ties," click on "Show and Tell at Santa Teresa," which "...[explores] the facility project and its progress, which has entered Phase II." One presumes that this means the fueling/instection/crew change portion is nearing completion, and work on the intermodal terminal has begun. Posted May 1, 2013. Nice aerial pic of the facility.
Update as of Monday, May 6, 2013
Colton, Riverside, Ontario-Pomona, CA
Schedule
Is it possible, while on public property, to get inches away from a moving locomotive these days? Maybe now, but the days of street running are supposedly closing in Colton. Check out that sidewalk!
Parts I-V will be presented Thursday, May 9, 2013 before 6:00 A.M. PDT about the Colton Crossing area (“area”).
Parts VI-X will be presented Friday, May 10, 2013 before 6:00 A.M. PDT, about more of the Colton Crossing area.
Parts XI-XVI will be presented Saturday, May 11, 2013 before 6:00 A.M., about: (1) the Streeter Ave. underpass construction in Riverside, on the LA&SL, (2) The Milliken Ave. Flyover, Ontario, (3) an update on the future CP in the Bon View Ave. area of Ontario (on the SP side), plus (4) a brief mention about Mountain Ave. in Ontario, with a brief mention too about Montclair and Pomona.
Part I (of I-V, Overall I-XVI)
The Colton, CA Vicinity
This multi-day presentation will generally be on an east to west basis, and cover the Southern California areas of Colton, Riverside, Ontario and Pomona.
On the EAST side of the Santa Ana River (Colton), at CP SP541 ICE DECK (M.P. 540.1), a new type view more north of the CP than previously shown.
Above, the new old target mast signals are replacing the old, taken down full signal bridge. Exactly why the new, far left headless mast is present is unknown to this contributor.
An eastbound comes along …
… with some (“some”) water in the river. In 1969, the then new concrete riverbed and new railroad bridge were severely tested after just being built, with massive flooding that had water just a foot or two under the then Southern Pacific Sunset Route bridge.
Continued in Part II
Part II (of I-V, Overall I-XVI)
The east side’s current west eastbound target signal for Main 2 is on borrowed time now.
The Santa Ana River Trail looking south … The above signal is barely visible just left of the leftmost tree
From the EAST (on the north) side still … From left to right, for the future, the eastbound switching absolute signal, the Main 2 westbound absolute signal, the eastbound Mt. Vernon Connector absolute signal, and the far right mast is the Main 1 signals, believed to be intermediates.
From the EAST still (but on the south side) … From left to right, the future eastbound Mt. Vernon Connector , the new eastbound switching track signal, the present Main 2 westbound signal, and west side both directions intermediates.
Continued in Part III
Part III (of I-V, Overall I-XVI)
From the 9th and K Streets area: The flyover's east slope, with temporary fencing in the photo center. The fencing on the right, south of the tracks, appears to be another, separate fence.
The “L” shaped meeting of 9th and “K” Streets, with one leg of a wye going through it (hence, the lower right of center crossbuck sign).
A north side southward view and the curving track, the Riverside Industrial Lead:
But, something was brewing on the track!
Continued in Part IV
Part IV (of I-V, Overall I-XVI)
A street running train approaches, a crewmember disembarks, lines the switch straight, and the train proceeds. Notice the wigwag on the background right.
On the public sidewalk, a super train show unfolds before us.
Continued in Part V
Part V (of I-V, Overall I-XVI)
The train is so close you can almost touch it!
The train stops, allowing for repositioning the camera across the street.
The agreement regarding the Colton Flyover was that this street running will be eliminated. Still, there doesn't seem to be any evidence as to how South Colton rail customers will be served without the street running.
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Parts XI-XVI will be presented Saturday, May 11, 2013 before 6:00 A.M., about: (1) the Streeter Ave. underpass in Riverside, (2) The Milliken Ave. Flyover, (3) an update on the future CP in the Bon View Ave. area (on the SP side), both in Ontario, plus (4) a brief mention about Mountain Ave. in Ontario, with a brief mention also about Montclair and Pomona.
Sorry guys, but bad news! My Dell computer blew up ... Well, maybe not that bad. The gut feeling is that it is an on / off switch problem. But that will have to wait till daytime when repair people are open ...
Hope it is a simple and cheap repair. My experience is that the service charges are very high and if the computer is more than three years old you might be better off replacing it. If a replacement is in the wind I suggest that you consider an Apple computer. We have a Mac Pro, Air, and an Ipad (plus two iphones). Very happy with them and they all interface easily. A plus is that they are virtually free of virus infection. Love mine.
Hope it is an easy (and cheap) fix.
Dick Watkins
To All: About the Computer Problem
During discussion with a Dell technician, who extensively ran tests, the computer magically started working for an unexplainable reason! If life only was as simple!
Part VI (of VI-X, Overall I-XVI)
The street running train (from Part V) goes over the La Cadena Dr. underpass, in sight of the new flyover bridging over La Cadena Dr., with a new mast signal just south of the track.
A far south side view that pinpoints the location of the new signal, which is barely visible on the upper right:
Another view:
The new signal, the flyover bridge over La Cadena Dr., and I-10:
Since the signal’s top head has a three-bulb unit (i.e., has a green), there will have to be a multiplicity of signals to the west, or photo left. Remember, the Mt. Vernon Connector will go through here at ground level, as well as a single-track crossing of the BNSF also to the west, again photo left.
Seeing that the above signal’s lower head (for westbound, leftward trains) only is a single-bulb unit, the signal strangely might (“might”) be an intermediate signal in very close proximity to an absolute signal just several hundred feet to the west!
Continued in Part VII
Part VII (of VI-X, Overall I-XVI)
That new signal and the La Cadena underpass bridging safety railings (lower left). Note the red disked switch stand by that safety railing.
The westbound east side Main 2 target signal related to the Riverside Industrial Lead is still present.
The West Leg of the Wye (Riverside Industrial Lead) in relation to La Cadena Dr. and the new mast signal.
Continued in Part VIII
Part VIII (of VI-X, Overall I-XVI)
Looking east again, by 9th Street that has a track downs its middle, a concrete tie train is present.
Above, note the blocks in the foreground for the old coaling or water tower that used to be present by that “old” Colton Yard. That structure was featured in the rather famous horizontal cover photo of one of Richard Steinheimer’s steam books of the 1950’s.
A view of the flyover area with the BNSF Connector bridging in sight: The Colton Signal Dept. a few blocks this side of the BNSF is present. The telephoto compaction is so severe the BNSF Transcon is not even seen on the far right, yet those trains cross the view.
That BNSF Trancon opening in the flyover is seen on the right. The present mast color light signal and a future color light signal, the angle of which makes it difficult to distinguish the two masts.
On the above photo’s bottom, the Colton Signal Department’s barbed wire fencing is visible.
Continued in Part IX
Part IX (of VI-X, Overall I-XVI)
The Rancho Ave. overpass was traversed several times, but nothing new appeared to have been added to the scene. So, Pepper Ave. to the west was visited.
The NEW Main 2 west side eastbound signal (for the new, big CP SP538 RANCHO, not in service yet) is visible in the lower center. The sloping track is the West Leg of the Wye that Palmdale Cutoff trains use. The signals in the background, by Rancho Ave., are the present west side eastbound signals of the present CP SP538 RANCHO.
A pulling and shoving move takes place, on one of two switching tracks. Note the movement on one of those tracks is south (behind) the signal.
A few days earlier K.P. was at Pepper Ave. also, and a Main 2 passed IN FRONT OF that signal, so the new, future mast signals is BETWEEN Main 2 and those switching tracks.
Continued in Part X
Part X (of VI-X, Overall I-XVI)
The interlocking just to the west is CP SP535 PEPPER, and the signal from the Departure Yard is yellow. The future Main 2 signal is in the background (barely visible on the middle top)
The yellow signal was for a departing eastbound.
When the eastbound Red Rock Yard at Red Rock, AZ is up and running, such east departures should be a rarity here, for West Colton Yard will be a westbound facility..
Such will mesh well with the current two-tracking between Pomona and Fontana, the latter of which is just about five miles to the west of CP SP535 PEPPER.
A lot of railroaders work out of West Colton Yard, and relief thereat seems to have worked well. K.P. has heard reports that may unsettle those crews in their comfort zone. With two-tracking now (sort of anyway) between east of Indio, CA and Yuma, AZ, runs will speed up. The circulating word is that a ‘super pool’ is coming where trainmen would run all the way from dock terminals in Los Angeles to Yuma. For the record, K.P. is not taking a stand one way or the other on the matter, but is just conveying what has been heard.
Many trains that travel Los Angeles to Yermo will have two options for the “Corridor Manager” to consider, the SP or LA&SL route. While many feel going via the SP is more desirable, even with the Colton Flyover and great fluidity on the SP, K.P. envisions a significant amount of trains still going via the LA&SL, more than the masterminds of routings might think. That even applies to California-Texas Sunset Route trains, though the powers that be would probably like everything to go via the Sunset Route.
------------
Since posting Parts VI through X was delayed, Parts XI-XVI will be posted momentarily while the computer IS presently working (just in case it decides to act up again later).
Part XI (of XI-XVI, Overall I-XVI)
The Streeter Grade Crossing
Riverside, CA
At Streeter and Dewey Avenues, Riverside, M.P. 53.78 on the Los Angeles & Salt Lake (LA&SL), the alternate Sunset Route, looking east, the shoofly only has more pronounced white bricking, or whatever it is supposed to be. A not buried metal stand is on the photo lower right.
Looking west, the shoofly area seems to have a more pronounced but trackless look.
Above, a heavy fence has been erected separating the UP right-of-way from Nichol’s Park, a popular family fun place. K.P. use to bring his kids to the park years ago, and a simple chain-link fence allowed him to have fun watching both trains and the kids!
Continued in Part XII
Part XII (of XI-XVI, Overall I-XVI)
The Milliken Ave. Flyover
Ontario, CA
The attractive blue fencing has been installed on the north side of the flyover, and rebar molding formed for the decorative sides.
Continued in Part XIII
Part XIII (of XI-XVI, Overall I-XVI)
There seems to be more columns on this north side …
… than was put on the south side. As seen below, besides the center (left), the sides only have two such decorative columns (center, previously shown).
The north side has four colums on each side of Milliken Ave, plus the center one.
Trucks were everywhere!
In the last photo above, trucks have been known to be lined up all the way back … The only reason this forumist managed to ‘escaped’ was because of the kindness of some trucker …
Surprisingly, this was the first visit in months that a train did not go over the flyover while K.P. was visiting.
Continued in Part XIV
Part XIV (of XI-XVI, Overall I-XVI)
At the crossroads, barricading is still present, much sidewalk-work is still awaiting construction, and traffic is still flowing on reduced lanes.
TravelCenters of America (TA), a truckers serving outfit, are at TWO locations, one on each side of the Milliken Ave. and Guasti Rd. intersection!
Continued in Part XV
Part XV (of XI-XVI, Overall I-XVI)
Bon View Ave. (North)
From Bon View Ave., ties have been laid partially to the North Ontario siding, at the present CP SP521 NORTH ONTARIO.
Continued in Part XVI
Part XVI (of XI-XVI, Overall I-XVI)
Looking east, a second absolute signal has been erected (right).
An eastward telephoto: Rails have been attached to the newly laid ties.
The railroad must own the field to the next street south, for ties and other items are stored therein.
Montclair-Pomona, CA
The Montclair Ave. overpass in Ontario was driven over, but NOT walked over, hence, no photos are presented. The new angled track between the north SP side and the south LA&SL side, WEST of Mountain Ave., had ties and rail laid.
The SP North Montclair siding was packed with active track equipment. Apparently, this was for rebuilding that siding for the future Main 2.
San Antonio Ave. (Pomona) was passed, and it was found that the future Main 2 still was not connected to LA&SL Main 1 (former the SP east siding).
This will conclude the posting report.
K.P. in regard to your comments about routing todays UP freight trains, eastbound, over and to the Sunset Route. Whether trains are routed on the old SP or UP (LA&SL) the choke point for all this action will still be at the Colton (Crossover) Flyover. Gone forever is the waiting time for trains from the former Santa Fe now BNSF while trains from the SP now UP, (or visa versa) waits for the other to clear the crossing.
The point to be made here is that you can have four or five trains headed for the Sunset Route at about the same time and they will still need to get in line, as they trundle off to the deep south.
RickH
BarstowRick.com Model Railroading How To's
Computer Status:
Another episode of K.P.’s computer problems occurred … and Dell is now going to replace a major component in a few days. Extended warrantees sure pay for themselves …
billio (5-3):
Those Panhandle Railroad Bridge videos you informed us about certainly were educational, and probably better than being in the area at the time. Thanks for the tipoff on the Internet availability of the videos.
ccltrains (5-10):
Hi, Dick!
Thanks for the Apple computer recommendation.
In the last 20 years I’ve had an IBM (nightmare), HP (nightmare), and a few Dell’s (fairly good, “fairly”). I guess looking at an Apple (Mac) might be worthwhile. Consumer Reports has said it is the most reliable and consumers are the most happy with, though posters in this thread have complained of posting problems with them in the past.
BarstowRick (5-11):
K.P. is uncertain if calling the Colton Flyover the “choke point” is right or not. The whole area from Loma Linda to Sierra could be considered a choke stretch of sorts depending on circumstances. That is where a “Corridor Manager” comes in handy in sorting out the future and masterminding an orchestration plan.
Three problems, in my opinion, arise. (1) The BNSF Connector (the Colton Crossing northwest quadrant transition track), (2) the West Leg of the Wye (off the Palmdale Cutoff), and train crew relief by CP AL534 CEDAR (between the Receiving Yard and Bowl). Individual comments:
(1) The BNSF Connector: 10 M.P.H.
The very slow speed for a 100-car train could tie up the line.
(2) The West Leg of the Wye: 15 M.P.H.
The slow speed could tie up Main 2 (the only connecting track).
The above two have reference to trains specifically from or to Yermo and Las Vegas, which most often involves the Central Corridor or Overland Route. As you know, BarstowRick, because of the connection at Silverwood near the top of Cajon Pass, such trains have three choices of routings, the BNSF Connector, the West Leg of the Wye, or the LA&SL.
(3) Relief point by CP AL533 CEDAR (M.P.534.7)
Making a crew relief could tie up the line. Relief points with high volumes of trains often have a number of tracks to make relief on. But, by its nature and being hemmed in by its surroundings, the Cedar Ave. relief point is limited to two-tracks. The below reshown photo was taken with the old and new signals in transition.
Thus, all three areas are kind of chock points. If multiple events occur, the whole line could undo the time saving value of the Colton Flyover, at least as far as the UP is concerned. In light of the “fleeting” mentality of UP, fleets of trains are likely to continue, and when fleets pass each other and stop for crew change, the congestion escape value of the LA&SL via Riverside will become more valuable.
The LA&SL route (Colton to Pomona via Riverside) …
… is actually only nine miles farther travel than staying on or transitioning onto the Sunset Route (in a westbound illustration). To allow a train south of Colton (on the BNSF) 50 M.P.H. and over the LA&SL at a comparable 50 M.P.H. without stopping may sway a Corridor Manager to choose the alternate Sunset Route if congestion appears likely, especially if a particular train is very hot …
K.P. I couldn't agree more.
It will be interesting to watch train traffic inbound and outbound, into and out of the Old SP Colton Yard. Like you pointed out and if you don't mind I will put it another way. Going North on the Colton Cutoff you end up with a single track mainline with sporadic sidings scattered about. In order to pass opposing trains one has to hole up and wait for the other. That's a good example of a choke point.
The old AT&SF through Cajon saw the first of the crossovers installed between the SP and AT&SF. The Walker crossover down in Devour, Ca and then like you said the Silverwood crossover, west of the Summit, will serve the two railroads well as they route trains.
I won't labor the dispatching problems that will and still persist however, it's never been better. By far more efficient railroading then what crews and dispatchers have experienced in the past.
Question: I was reading in a 2010:4 Passenger Train Journal where the Amtrak train the Sunset on it's namesake route, was going to be rerouted away from the Colton Yard, to make a left on the BNSF, through Riverside, grab a right on the old LA&SL headed for L.A.U.P.T via Fullerton. Has that come to be?
Thanks for your input and come back.
K.P. and BarstowRick, both of you make good points about Colton area bottlenecks. Here are a couple of possible others:
Crew changes also take place at CP Loma Linda / Ice Deck siding. Seems a little strange since the siding is still too short for 8000+ foot trains. Perhaps what K.P. speculated will happen eventually - extending the siding east to, say, around CP Bryn Mawr. Perhaps build another siding on the north ROW side for westbounds. We'll see ....
The entrances to the WC arrival yard and Kaiser yard seem to be congested often. Existing mitigations must be tolerable since they haven't given more priority to extending 2MT or Sierra 'siding' west.
BTW I haven't read a 'railfan rumble' about rerouting the Sunset Ltd the way Rick mentioned. Amtrak might object due to added dispatching handoffs and having to negotiate the use of Metrolink platforms (East Ontario? Pomona?). IMO Amtrak & the City of Ontario should build a new platform opposite the west end of the airport terminals to make use of their parking And to connect with a possible Gold Line extension; I'm not holding my breath waiting for Either event.
Of pre-1970 historical interest is that SP proposed building a yard in Indio (IIRC which was rejected by local gov't!). If property was available, I would think that a site east of the Santa Ana River would have been a better choice than WC.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
According to the same article, afore mentioned. It also states the South West Chief is to be routed on the LA&SL. I thought I had seen the South West Chief, Eastbound, arrive in San Bernardino using the flyover. Translation the train came across from L.A.U.P.T on the Metro Link tracks.
Thanks for your response and come back.
Update as of Monday, May 13, 2013
A Few Moments to Spare
Colton, CA
Part “A” (of A-B)
Towards the end of a long, many hours traveling assignment a brief stop was made in Colton, CA, near the Rancho Ave. overpass. There were still no further new signals erected.
The glaring, reflective sunlight made for an irresistible photographic view to shoot …
Almost looking into the sun, though, a very strange thing was spotted …
The structure’s corner was being completed, with a temporary square-like wood covering typical of drying concrete.
Continued in Part B
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