Of a Humiliation, an Embarrassment, and Mind-Blowing Things!
On Saturday, September 27, 2014 K.P. was unexpectedly on the highway to the Santa Monica, CA area. After that, he had to be in Ontario by 1 P.M., with about four hours of free time thereafter. So, in all that, he was able to check out the status of things from the City of Industry to Colton via Ontario and Riverside. The final stop was by the Barton Rd. overpass in Colton (in the Grand Terrace area) with the truss bridges in view, and those trusses were photographed from by the Barton Road overpass over the BNSF Transcon (and alternate Sunset Route / LA&SL). That afforded an opportunity to focus on that thorny, old 1936 dated narrow roadway bridge where three tracks will eventually need to go underneath a two-track wide bridge opening. And that was when the odd finding occurred. Two PREVIOUSLY shown photos:
K.P. could NOT find that odd structural support he previously found that had never been there before! (See second photo above.) It simply had disappeared! Or, had it? That’s when he realized the hazards of photo-documenting in darkening sunlight and trying to interpreting those scenes thereafter OFFSITE!
Above, THAT IS WHAT IS ACTUALLY THERE, as seen under relatively GOOD lighting! Those angled top ends supports have been there all along, and are quite small. Sorry for the mix-up, guys! And, K.P. is now crawling under a rock!
So, we are back to square one again. Will third-tracks fit under that bridge with walling replacing the semi-slanted dirt-cut sides, or will a whole new bridge have to replace it?
One of the reasons that the old bridge was built curved was because it had to be so high to clear the trains on the tracks below. Curving allowed additional roadway to lower to La Cadena Drive’s level. To do the same at a 90 degree intersection would need tons and tons and tons of dirt to be brought in to elevate the whole intersection.
It will take a few days to sort out all the other new photos taken last Saturday. Tentatively, the following activity areas will briefly be post-covered: (1) the Workman Mill Rd. grade crossing in the City of Industry, (2) signals in the Montclair-Ontario area, (3) the Clay Street underpass in Riverside (wait till you see the shoofly!), (4) the Streeter Ave. underpass in Riverside, (5) the new railroad bridge over the 91 Freeway in Riverside, and (6) the truss bridges in the Grand Terrace area, plus a Pedley tidbit (on the LA&SL).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
The reason the bridge was built curved was to replace the original bridge that crossed at a 90 degree angle - there's a reason Barton and Palm line up they way they do (and the abutments and footings are visible on google earth ....) However, Palm was nothing more than a farm road way, way back when the current bridge was built. Residential development west of La Cadena began in the very late 70s into the 80s. None of the streets leading onto La Cadena have traffic lights (Litton and La Jolla are the only two where one can make a left or northbound turn onto La Cadena)
There's not a huge difference in elevation that couldn't be filled rather quickly and the most notable part is a new bridge at a 90 degree alignment could be built while the older bridge is still in place.
A10
KP,
Great photo shots of the bridge trinity. Thanks loads for taking the time out of your busy schedule to document the final resting places.
Now that they are moved there is a question all of us on the mountain top are asking. The other two sets of piers, abutments, whatever you wish to call them. What are they for? Is the BNSF railroad, Metro or some shortline planning on using the other two sets of piers? A highway bridge? A pipe line? Connect the old SP/PE line and run it across at that location. Or will they be dismantled at the taxpayers expense? Does that make those bridges mine? Oh never mind this can only lead to dissent in the ranks. We don't want any of that...do we?
I thought, I might get in some speculation of my own.
We all eat humble pie at some point or the other. Never mind about the Barton Road Bridge. If the railroad decides to put in a third track the bridge will most likely see demolition and a new one will be built, to replace it. Or, it will be gone. Who knows?
Take care, RickH
RickH
BarstowRick.com Model Railroading How To's
The first set of two center piers and 4 abutments were built to move the mainline off the existing bridges so they could be dismantled and removed. Three new sets of piers (center of freeway) and abutments (outside edges of freeway) were constructed in the place of the old bridge with the addition of a third main when BNSF decides to use it (I expect they put a mainline switch in between Barton road and the freeway).
The first two sets of piers and abutments will be removed.
SP657E44 The first two sets of piers and abutments will be removed. A10
Yes but they are not needed nor is there space for more than three tracks. Most of the San Bernardino sub is going to be triple track and in several places already is.
The only reason they were built to specs is it was a cost-saving measure.
Alright, who's been playing with the font features as in not a option, graphics and the excellent format we used to have here before...THIS!. You guys at Trains didn't go and hire a kid to do all of this...did you? Now I can barely read what I'm writing. Darn new fangled whatchamacallit's.
Nice come back SP. Of what platform of authority do you speak from?
The extra support columns might be needed in case of a failure of the bridge. This is earthquake territory and what happens if there is a derailment that takes out one or more truss bridges ? The not in service supports could be duplicated to add a replacement truss bridge(s) in the event that one or more needs replacement. The construction techniques building these bridges can be duplicated.
Blue Streak, I agree with you in the sense of it's my tax dollar that put them in and if it were up to me they would stay in to support a bridge, even if it means rerouting Barton Road. But... nobody asked me.
BarstowRick Blue Streak, I agree with you in the sense of it's my tax dollar that put them in and if it were up to me they would stay in to support a bridge, even if it means rerouting Barton Rod. But... nobody asked me.
Blue Streak, I agree with you in the sense of it's my tax dollar that put them in and if it were up to me they would stay in to support a bridge, even if it means rerouting Barton Rod. But... nobody asked me.
Yes my point -- If for some reason another replacement or new truss bridge(s) is needed the 2 - 3 months to build a foundation make several concrete pours and wait the 28 days for curing is lost time ? How soon steel could be ordered and fabricated ? ?
Well, well, well! We have a new forum format again! I woke up to the forum not working, and once it was finally functional again, seemed to have teething problems, at least on my computer.
The biggest problem encountered is that there seems to be no way to post with the use of Microsoft WORD. Through a cumbersome transfer of the text to Notepad, then pasting the text into the post, I was able to post this.
The first of the two-part “City of Industry to the Grand Terrace, CA Area” update posting series was attempted to be posted this morning, but there was chronic problems with the new forum format. So, K.P. is now taking a 30 M.P.H. ‘Yellow’ instead of a high green.
The other big problem is buttons disappearing! I’ve never encountered that before.
And, there doesn't seem to be a text size, as with headings.
It has been K.P.’s experience that these types of things boil over in a few days, and everything will be back to normal again, hopefully anyway. But, the WORD problem greatly concerns me …
Take care all,
K.P.
It's the business I've been in for 30 years. This new page layout ..... huh uh.
Update as of Saturday, September 27, 2014
City of Industry to the Grand Terrace, CA Area
Part I (of I-VII, Overall I-XIV)
The Puente Hills Intermodal Facility Area
City of Industry, CA
The Workman Mill Rd. grade crossing (LA&SL M.P. 13.92) and area track-work is slowly being revamped. A gateless crossing flasher has been erected for pedestrians, and barricades have been positioned, presumably to prevent motorists from making a U-turn on the tracks.
Looking eastbound, the new alignment shift in the tracks is seen on the photo lower right.
The routing of the future, additional track under the 60 Freeway still is having construction work being done for it.
Just above, the concrete burial base towards the photo bottom, as if a signal was going to be put in there, does not make sense to K.P. A signal bridge there does, but not mast signals.
Continued in Part II
Part II (of I-VII, Overall I-XIV)
Those barricades and a base for a new, future crossing gate:
Northeast of the 60 Freeway, the grading for the future track is in place now.
Looking westbound from the above camera position, new walling is seen.
Continued in Part III
Sorry guys …
… but the series can NOT be continued at this time, about Ontario’s new signals. The new trainsmag.com forum website seems to be malfunctioning so badly it would take this contributor all day to finish just the first part of the series.
Super Hunky (10-2):
The ‘computer guys’ probably weren’t trying to fix anything. The Model Railroader forum had been using the new to trainsmag.com forum for some time, so the Kalmback group probably was trying to get all the magazines under the Kalmbach umbrella to uniformly use the same forum program – a smart, money savvy objective! Unfortunately, big problems have resulted.
It never ceases to amaze me why companies don’t get a group of files and duplicate them on another, separate computer, and redo them into the new format, and work out the bugs, if any. Once perfected, they can modify the real ones.
As far as a search function, the old program had one, but I haven’t found one yet for the new forum program … so there might not be one now.
Incidentally, it took me a while (a long while!) to find the forums on the Model Railroader homepage. So, with everybody going every which way in the Kalmback organization, it really is not surprising the TRAINS Magazine forum has put so many people ‘on the ground,’ so to speak …
Maybe I will see if the Mrs. wants to go to Hawaii for a week or two.
Be a survivor,
I also had problems getting to the site. Hope they get their act together soon.
K.P. just spent a half hour manually retyping what he has spent nearly five hours on trying to post, and it failed too!
He gives up.
Yesterday, the San Gabriel Trench (CA) area was visited, and a few views never before seen by the forum were shot. And, now nobody can see them.
I don't know about this website anymore ...
Hello, K.P.,
It seems that every time the software is "New and Improved" people have all manner of problems with it. I still have not been able to activate a link to even another forum post using either Google Chrome or IE10.
I can't tell much difference in the way things perform now except perhaps the changes were to make the software more compatible with cell phones, iPads, iPods. etc., and not those of us who are still using 'conventional' keyboards and mice.
G
SP657E44 It's the business I've been in for 30 years. This new page layout ..... huh uh. A10
It's the business I've been in for 30 years. This new page layout ..... huh uh. A10
Got you and read you loud and clear.
K.P. I saw this in "Progressive Railroading" recently. I do not know Texas railroading, so I am not sure if this is on the Sunset Route or not. Somewhere I read it was going to cost $200,000,000 to build and would be done in two years. My guess is this will slow two tracking here in the west by using up so much of the available capital. On the other hand it will probably increase traffic on the Sunset Route and keep up pressure on the two tracking program.
Hope you can resolve the technical issues that Trains caused. I miss your well written and interesting column.
"Union Pacific Railroad yesterday announced it will move forward with plans to build a classification yard in Robertson County, Texas.The state is experiencing exponential population growth that's increasing demand for building materials and consumer goods, UP officials said in a press release. The yard will help meet the region's growing freight transportation needs while taking trucks off local highways, they said.To be built between Mumford and Hearne, Texas, the yard will be used to sort rail cars by destination from inbound trains to build multiple outbound trains, which will be fueled, inspected by a mechanical crew, and then depart to local and regional destinations."This rail facility will connect the largest and fastest growing Texas markets to the state's existing freight transportation infrastructure," said Brenda Mainwaring, UP's vice president of public affairs. "The development of this project will create more than 1,400 construction jobs over a two-year period … [and] 200 permanent jobs will be needed to operate the site once it is completed."Seven different UP lines converge in southern Robertson County, connecting markets in Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, Austin and San Antonio, as well as the remainder of east Texas and the Gulf Coast."
I saw that article too. Hearne is between San Antonio and Shreveport - I "think" the Sunset goes east from San Antonio whereas the line to Hearne heads more northeasty. Quite an interesting line, look at the satelite image of Valley Junction west of Hearne - a diamond with all 4 connectors.
SP657E44 and David1005 (10-8):
The future Texas classification yard's location is way off the Sunset Route cursory between Dallas and Houston, TX.
The future yard's location confused me, but after email correspondence with desertdog (John Timm), things more or less made sense.
Apparently it will be on a north / northeast-south TRAFFIC route, and NOT affect the Sunset Route. Some of the new yard's traffic will end up in San Antonio and Houston (or come from there), both on the Sunset Route, but that traffic won't normally be Sunset Route traffic per se.
Desertdog (who is more familiar with that area than K.P. is) may want to weigh in on this, correct my understand if necessary, or elaborate further.
Take care,
The Sunset Route within the UP System
The western section of the Sunset Route is being two-tracked, and much of that two-tracking has been covered in this thread.
Desertdog clarified the new classification yard planned between Dallas and Houston, TX is to be for humping south-northeast traffic.
K.P. is not that familiar with the eastern portion of the Sunset Route, like New Orleans, LA, Houston and San Antonio, TX., and is not sure what yarding facilities are in those areas, like surfacing switching or hump yards. Maybe some that are knowledgeable about those area can contribute knowledge towards our enlightenment.
Obviously boxcar traffic from the Corpus Christi, San Antonio, Houston area are funneled west on the Sunset Route to West Colton Yard in Southern California. West Colton Yard now handles both east and west traffic, but when Red Rock, AZ's future eastbound classification yard is up and running, West Colton Yard will be only a westbound yard.
Sometimes we think of the UP system as one big operating plant, but in actuality it has major traffic patterns WITHIN that system, explaining the future south-northeast classification yard between Dallas and Houston, and the east-west Sunset Route West Colton Yard and Red Rock Yard.
Locomotives must sort of get trapped into those separate patterns, and occassionally excape-transition to another area and get trapped there for a while.
If we only had access to the Power Desk for a week!
Hello KP, Are the Kalmbach folks helping sort out whatever it is that's keeping you from your normal posting of updates? Wonder if it would help if your fans (followers) started sending e-mails to Milwauke.
john
since Red Rock yard will become a eastbound classification yard will trains go west of Red rock yard for destinations north of West Colton?
denveroutlaw06 (10-10):
Your inquiry is very confusing and like something I would write at a sleep deprived 2 A.M. and while in a Twilight Zone state, which is quite often.
My guess ("guess") is that there will be a Red Rock, AZ hump track for from Phoenix cars needing to go west, and accumulated cars will be picked up by a westbound going to West Colton Yard in Southern California.
There is a westbound train from Dallas or Houston that bypasses West Colton Yard (via the East Leg of the Wye) and goes up the Central Valley and parts north. It is unknown if that straight through train would pick up at Red Rock, or they would be put on another westbound train and processed at West Colton Yard.
Denverout06, did I halfway unofficially answer your inquiry? Or, did you mean something else?
Best,
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