Joint Update as of Saturday, August 2, 2014 …
… and Reply to BarstowRick (8-2):
As usual, the BNSF staging area was went by too, and it was dramatically full!
It was difficult to interpret what was new and used, except for that very un-stacked pile (top photo)
Continued with a reply to Northwest …
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Continued from previous page …
… and Reply to Northwest (8-1):
Thanks for your thoughts on the UP C40-8’s springing up on UP trains now.
According to the rather authoritative utahrails.net Internet website, General Electric C40-8 UP 9346 that appeared in a post photo a few days ago …
… was built in February 1989. So, it is 25 years old now!
The class unit, UP 9100, was built in November 1987, almost 27 years ago.
http://www.utahrails.net/up-diesel-roster/up-diesel-roster-70.php
In theory, those C40-8’s that are now again circulating through the UP system should find their way onto the ballast trains of the Sunset Route two-tracking. If a Kansas City Southern unit can do such …
… surely a UP C40-8 will do so too eventually.
On my expected afternoon dispatch yesterday, Saturday, August 2, 2014, UP 9206 was found in the back shop area of West Colton Yard here in California.
It was the only C40-8 spotted at West Colton Yard.
The dead-line of stored units doesn’t appear to exist anymore at West Colton Yard. The dead-line awaiting parts, etc., was present, of course, as it typically is, but there was no long term unit storage as during the economic downturn. Things must be getting better economy-wise.
cacole (8-3):
Most fascinating that those auto-rack cars are still there at Picacho, AZ!
As a clarification, those auto-rack cars are on an uncontrolled siding, out of the CTC limits of the Dispatcher.
If (“if”) those auto-rack cars brought GM autos to Phoenix, GM has received so much perpetual bad publicity of late that sales might be way down, which in turn would put UP in the awkward position of finding a place to store auto-racks.
Super Hunky (8-3):
The windmill was going west. It took the overpass route north over the Sunset Route, but I don’t know if it went the Highway 87 route or towards Eloy and Casa Grande.
Best to all,
K.P.
The California-Arizona Trip Report
Filling In a Lot of Loose Ends
July 10-13, 2014
Part “G” (of A-H), Section 1 (of 1-7)
Comparing the Sunset Route Two-Tracking …
… with the Two-Tracked BNSF Transcon
For many, many decades the old Santa F (AT&SF) line eastward through Cajon Pass in Southern California was left running automatic block signaled (ABS) “Double-Track” to near Victorville, where one track went over the other so eastward the line was right running ABS. It was that way to near Ash Fork, AZ, where another natural crossover (a flyover) existed, with the “Double Track” line thereafter left running all the way to Belen, NM.
The line through the Ash Fork area was a rollercoaster affair, so AT&SF set out to change that. The line was surveyed for a new 40 mile plus or minus reroute. The well-known forum contributor diningcar was actually a surveyor in that 1959-1960 effort of some 54-55 years ago! The relocation became known as the Crookton Line Change.
In that whole effort the “natural” crossover near Ash Fork was eliminated, so that somewhere on the line right-running would head-on left running! That location was at Winslow, AZ.
This is that Winslow, looking east from the overpass on the west side of town:
CP WEST WINSLOW:
Just above, the track branching off to the right goes to the yard in Winslow. In the foreground are Mains 1 and 2 (left to right).
A heavy eastbound telephoto:
K.P. is unfamiliar with the official track designations here, but in theory the background tracks above from left to right should be Mains 1, 2, and 3. The cantilever signal bridge suggests that.
Years ago the design of the area trackage worked relatively well. But, as one can see in the above photos, trains are so long these days they foul Winslow’s CP’s and block the intended flexibility of the trackage.
Continued in Section 2
Part “G”, Section 2 (of 1-7)
On the EAST side of town is a counterpart arrangement. But the situation there is somewhat misleading.
Above, the farther back (right) signal is for entering and exiting the yard, and is not a mainline signal. The signals are for Main 2 (left), Main 3 (center), and the yard entrance track (right).
The below, forefront center signal is that missing Main 1 signal, and is more east (closer) that the other three (background).
The above CP location is called EAST WINSLOW.
Thus, the mainline tracks can be diagramed as below:
The diagram is an oversimplification, as it doesn’t account for yard entrances and the Amtrak depot, which seems to have a track all of its own.
On that diagram, Main 2 on the right has arrows straight across to Main 1 on the left. That is the westbound bias. Eastbound, trains on Main 2 on the left must somehow get to Main 1 on the right. Of course, this is CTC and any track can be used for any train in any direction, but the tendency overall is for dispatches to route trains as noted above.
As mentioned, before the 1959-1960 line relocation there was a natural crossover west of Ash Fork, and left running ABS existed between that natural crossover and Belen, NM. So, back then, changing sides wasn’t an issue as it is today, and has been since the 1959-1960 line relocation
Continued in Section 3
Part “G”, Section 3 (of 1-7)
Winslow, AZ is a train crew change point. Midway between CP’s WEST WINSLOW and EAST WINSLOW is a signal bridge and concrete platforms where trains crews change.
Above, the three signals on the LEFT are the three Transcon tracks diagramed in the above post. The fourth signal on the right is for the Amtrak station track that begins at this location and goes eastward (leftward) a ways.
Note the location sign on the signal bridge:
Continued in Section 4
Part “G”, Section 4 (of 1-7)
There appears to only be a couple of ways of getting from the freeway side of town to the non-freeway south side. One is an underpass towards the middle of town.
The other is the overpass on the west side of town.
But, above, there is a severe warning for anyone that might visit the area. But more on this later …
That very first train we saw stopped (making crew relief ahead) in this Part G (Section 1) is still hanging over the CP, blocking any other trains from crossing over.
Another train comes east.
Continued in Section 5
Part “G”, Section 5 (of 1-7)
It goes under the overpass approaching a red over red signal (and train ahead), while the other main (left, Main 1) has a red over flashing yellow signal.
… and stops because of the train stopped ahead, stopped WITHIN the interlocking. So, because of being blocked, the train that is stopping cannot crossover and thus go around the train ahead!
YOU HAD TO BE THERE! K.P. was getting asphyxiated from the diesel exhaust! So, any visitors should have fair warning!
K.P. tried different spots at the bridge site, and a few were fairly good breathing.
Continued in Section 6
Part “G”, Section 6 (of 1-7)
From that above photo’s fairly good breathing location, another eastbound could be seen coming from the west, this one on Main 1. That track wasn’t blocked in the interlocking.
It zips by …
… and is turnout routed to the northernmost track.
Continued in Section 7
Part “G”, Section 7 (of 1-7)
That just passed train stops for crew relief on the northernmost track, and the train that was blocking the interlocking took off. And the Main 2 signal (right) went yellow.
So, the asphyxiating train moves east.
Well, well, well. What do we have here? A westbound on the STRAIGHT route passes from (presumably) Main 2 to Main 1.
A final ground level view, looking westbound: Note the overpass (where we had been at) has room under it to extend a third track west, so turnouts and crossovers would not be blocked.
It is time for us to go west.
--------
Part H will illustrate more of the Transcon westward into California, and then correlate it to the Sunset Route two-tracking. It is slated to be posted before 9:00 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time on Thursday, August 7, 2014, but could be posted up to 12-hours early.
Replies:
BNSF6400 (8-5)
Thanks for that very important clarification that the installation of CTC in 1959-1960 on the AT&SF line change in Arizona was ONLY between West Seligman and Maine. CTC on the Maine to Winslow section came later, probably when the higher ups of management realized their ‘sin’ of not designing into the reroute a natural crossover or flyover. The below reply to diningcar may be of interest to you, as well as the last California-Arizona “Part H” that mentions the AT&SF reroute and shows a photo or two of the abandoned natural crossover west of Ash Fork, AZ in comparing the Transcon with the Sunset Route.
diningcar (8-5):
Winslow, AZ on the BNSF Transcon is a fascinating place indeed. But, looking at aerials of Winslow one gets the distinct feeling that sometime after (“after”) the Crookton line change occurred, which change you were involved with back in 1959-1960, the track layout in Winslow was altered. Back then the train count was probably a third to half of what it is today, and in that light, continually crossing over trains was no problem.
Now, however, train counts are high, and the trains are much, much longer; hence, the track arrangement in Winslow is very much outdated. Exactly how that could be fixed is not clear. In a kind of ‘grab shot’ a heavy, heavy telephoto that I never thought would be posted, that left running eastbound (right) that passed the right biased train (as reported in Part G) is seen.
If BNSF was to put in a ‘dirt cheap’ flyover somewhere in that dip area, Winslow tracks could be extended westward, and trains would no longer be hanging in the interlocking plants, and trains would no longer have to crossover and get in the way of the other direction’s trains. BNSF could then have two eastbound tracks, and two westbound tracks, four altogether, for changing crew, but any tracks could be used at the whim of the dispatcher.
On UP’s triple-track line on the Central Corridor, at Kearney, NE, so many trains were clogging the line with two-tracks – like 120 to 150 a day -- they added a third track for over a hundred miles.
BNSF with more and more trains on the Transcon, sometime in the future the current arrangement (of changing bias sides at Winslow) will be seen as impractical, and BNSF will have to do something. Until then, trains will be getting in each other’s way at Winslow. But, it makes for an interesting show …
Take care all,
Part “H” (of A-H), Section 1 (of 1-7)
With the 1959-1960 Crookton line relocation, the Seligman to Maine section became “two-track” CTC, and then all the way to Winslow. In 1984 K.P. and the Mrs. overnighted in Flagstaff, across from CP EAST FLAGSTAFF, a universal crossers arrangement. That CP had signal bridges on each end of the CP. Today, those signal bridges are gone, and mast signals have replaced them.
West of Williams, AZ the old, abandoned line’s right-of-way (that wasn’t needed anymore with the Crookton line relocation) can be seen, like near I-40 Exit 157.
West of Ash Fork, AZ, even farther west, past Exit 139, off of Broken Wheel Rd. the old natural crossover can be seen.
Above photos: Over five decades ago westbound Super Chief’s came at the camera at ground level in this then Automatic Block Signal territory, while eastbounds went over the then higher bridging photo right to left.
Elimination of that natural crossover partially necessitated the tricky operation today in Winslow, AZ.
Part “H”, Section 2 (of 1-7)
Approaching Kingman, AZ westbound from the east on the old Highway 66 , one comes across the following interlocking area.
While UP on the Sunset Route so often uses a single CP and a universal crossover …
… BNSF on the Transcon often (but not everywhere) uses TWO CP’s and a siding, as per the above photo, and below diagram.
Other times BNSF has paired single crossovers.
That especially is dispatcher conducive to getting a faster train around a slower one, and quickly too. To do the same on the Sunset Route, unless there is a controlled siding that can be utilized, a slower train ties up one main while the faster train goes around it on the other main, tying up both mains for perhaps 10 miles between crossovers!
Part “H”, Section 3 (of 1-7)
In the Kingman area itself, the BNSF lines takes on unusual properties (like as if paired track) and spectacular scenery.
Part “H”, Section 4 (of 1-7)
The cool scenery in the above area is easily photograph from safe bridges with sidewalks separated from the roadway traffic.
In the two farther west photos below (but still in the Kingman area), an eastbound, uphill train is on Main 1, which is most often used for downhill westbound trains.
In the last photo above, note the normally eastbound main across the photo top.
Part “H”, Section 5 (of 1-7)
West of Needles, CA, by Highway 95, another paired track situation exists where the two-tracks separate for a distance.
Above, Main 1 (left) is the longer, gentler track tending to be used mainly by westbound trains.
At BNSF’S WEST GOFFS another two-CP and siding arrangement is present. View looks eastbound.
In the M.P. 662 and Amboy area, an eastward view.
Part “H”, Section 6 (of 1-7)
At Siberia, a similar arrangement is present, WITHOUT a siding!
The reverse of the above diagram was illustrated in Section 2 in this Part H.
The Crookton line relocation was prominent with such single crossovers, and would alternate in the runaround layouts from pair to pair.
West of Siberia, the BNSF tracks split again, and a paired type situation exists. The top track is the westbound biased track.
Part “H”, Section 7 (of 1-7)
But, that above mentioned track separation is more major, and NOT a minor affair: Another view of the tracks separating and difference of elevation. Again, the west running biased line is on the top.
The shorter, steeper, downhill eastbound biased line:
Just above, the view gives one a feel of the desert-scape in that area.
At BNSF’s Ludlow, there is just a universal crossover, as typical on UP’s Sunset Route.
By comparison, then, the BNSF line seems more flexible. While UP seems to pinch on CP installations and so often uses the least CP boxes as possible, BNSF goes all out for more flexibility. That seemed to begin with their Crookton line relocation of 1959-1960 and has been carried through to two-tracking the double-track of the last couple of decades. The UP Sunset Route on the other hand has been rather consistent with just universal crossovers. Some of those universal crossovers have a siding connected with them, but the sidings on one end cannot be accessed from the other main, as with the Red Rock siding at Red Rock, AZ (see right mast).
Of course, with that two CP’s and siding arrangement BNSF has, one main cannot access the siding either, so in some ways both have their limitations.
It is interesting how each railroad has a certain mentality and orientation that repeatedly springs up here and there throughout their systems, and over the decades.
This will conclude the review of the latest of the two-tracking on the Sunset Route, while comparing it to the BNSF Transcon.
Would elimination of the crossover at Frost be a possibility?
Seems like an option if they extend Main 3 beyond Martinez.
Robert
There's no need of making to much out of the right hand or left hand running here. The "Bias" thing.. Dispatchers will use whatever tracks they need to use, to get train A around train B. In yesteryears on Cajon Pass, Ca., they had sidings where a slower train could go into the hole and hold-up until the faster train passed it. Today the dispatcher will cross over a train and allow it to go around on what may have appeared to be the opposing track. There are videos of today's Cajon Pass, Ca., that show trains advancing up the hill side by side proceeding in the same direction. Kind of gives you an odd sensation to see that.
Out on the main lines: Signaling today, will be for both directions on any track and if you think about it, it's always been that way.. Nothing new going on. As KP says it does make for an interesting discussion.
RickH
BarstowRick.com Model Railroading How To's
Taking into account K.P.'s various postings, on a recent trip across Western New Mexico-Eastern Arizona on I-40, I observed that a left-hand bias was definitely the case. On an unrelated note, BNSF appears to make much less use of DPU's on the Transcon compared to the UP Sunset Route. It would be interesting to make a comparison of grade profiles and tonnages between the two.
Traffic was very heavy, with never more than 10 minutes between trains in either direction.
John Timm
diningcarMr. Timm, What you observed as you drove parallel to the BNSF Transcon could be different on another day, or even at a different time on the same day. Yes, dispatchers will "fleet" a series of trains on the left or on the right at any time their perspective of their entire responsibility dictates. On this route Amtrak #4 is eastward between Winslow and Alb. from 6:40 AM to 11:40. To the extent possible it is kept on one track which means the other will have most of the freights during that time #4 is in their vicinity. After #4 clears the back and forth moves will be made to expedite the priority trains. There is no dictated bias, it's always the DS's choice.
Very interesting. Thanks for the clarification. All the railroad activity makes for a more enjoyable drive, along with the spectacular scenery.
Update as of Friday, August 8, 2014
Part I (of I-II)
Progress on the Truss Bridges Supports
Grand Terrace, CA Area
In an early morning visit, the BNSF truss bridges area (on the alternate Sunset Route) was visited. Because of a more severe angle than usual at the camera site, the north side abutments construction was not photographable. But, it can be said they looked traditional, and what had been expected.
The TWO center supports were coming along.
The south concrete-work was another story, and seemed to be on a north-south axis, whereas they were expected to be on an east-west axis as on the north side.
K.P. has no explanation yet on this development, except there seems to be rebar-work extending upward from the concrete, possibly for cross pieces. Maybe three side supports for two truss bridges?
Those Crates at the Colton Signal Department
Colton, CA
The wooden crates believed to have switch assembly parts in them at the Colton Signal Department ….
July 16, 2014 previously posted photo
… mentioned about 3 weeks ago are still there. They may ultimately find a home at the big, future CP AL514 HAMILTON in Pomona, in the M.P. 514 area, which will need about nine additional turnouts. Colton, where the crates are now, is around M.P. 539, or about 25 miles away from Pomona.
Continued in Part II
Part II (of I-II)
The LA&SL Clay Street Underpass Construction
Riverside, CA
At Clay Street, a shoofly seems to be in place, but whether it is in service or not is unknown. From west to east:
The shoofly seems (“seems”) to be longer than most have been, again for an unknown reason if it is. Maybe (“maybe”) the shoofly will NOT have a reduction in track speed, which is 65 M.P.H. here.
This will conclude the two Part series. However, a very, very unorthodox but timely reply to rdamon follows.
Reply to rdamon (8-8):
If Only the Sunset Route had Such Simple …
… Answers to Its Own Complexities!
By your asking about the possibility of eliminating the BNSF ‘crossover’ at Frost near Victorville, CA it is presumed you meant the ‘natural crossover’ at M.P. 39.1 on BNSF’s Cajon Sub, where one track physically goes OVER the other. What was thought to be a very simple answer to your inquiry (i.e., NO) has evolved into something that very much might surprise you, as well as others here at the forum. A key Transcon complexity in Arizona, though, K.P. had concocted a radical solution for. Ironically, while traversing Cajon Pass yesterday evening towards the end of a 14-hour dispatch deep within in Riverside County, that very concocted type thing the California Department of Transportation (Caltrans) was unbelievably actually doing itself to the I-15 Freeway widening project! Severe traffic conditions precluded getting photos, but I went back there this morning and within just a few minutes nailed the photos!
Hopefully, in the next day or so a more thorough, very unofficial (“unofficial”) black and white logical, convincing answer to your inquiry can be put together.
Until then, take care,
6 rebar columns in the center, 3 abutments on the south side .....
The line will be straight after the last two trusses are installed and the other four shifted west. The reason the temporary pylons are "decorative is because they're using the same forms for all of the center pylons - a minor cost savings but ...
A10
A brief detour about possibilities …
A Forty Year Mystery on the BNSF Transcon
Part “A” (of A-C)
Forum contributor rdamon inquired: “Would elimination of the [natural] crossover at Frost be a possibility?”
The well-known and famous late rail photographer Richard Steinheimer penned a piece on Cajon Pass in the 1970’s, mentioning the possibility of doing away with the natural crossover at Frost. Likely that was inspired by the track layout he saw at the time, the then new 1975-1976 built Barstow Classification Yard Therein, while Main 2 (the southern track) is right biased for eastbound trains, the west eastbound entrance to the yard is off of Main 1 (the northern track), AS IF nearly forty years ago the big, master plan was for trains to operate left running.
At the separated, paired-track like situations at (1) Ash Hill-Siberia, (2) Highway 95-Ibis (both in California), and through the canyon-mountainous area of Kingman, AZ, left running is simply impractical! Or, is it?
What if (“what if”, as just a question and NOT fact) BNSF triple-tracked just those above mentioned areas, with the new track on the less gradient route? Ah, magic!
In Southern California’s Cajon Pass in 2007-2008, there was a similar separated, paired-track type arrangement, a 3% line and a 2.2% line. BNSF added a third-track, following the 2.2% track’s alignment. Even local new channels covered the news.
Continued in Part B
Part “B” (of A-C)
In laying another track on the 2.2% alignment, K.P. has always been mystified by a seemingly unnecessary short section of walling.
BNSF used landfilling elsewhere (bottom) …
Why not at the above walling site?
Interestingly, with the present California Department of Transportation (Caltrans’) I-15 Freeway revamping project at the southern (railroad western) end of Cajon Pass, instead of increasing the landfilling, seemingly out of the blue lengthy WALLING has sprung up!
Continued in Part C
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