The existing track crosses I-10 twice; once going over I-10 with a low clearance bridge near Marsh Station Rd, and then going under I-10 a few miles east of there. The realignment will eliminate both crossings.
The road is being redone to parallel both I-10 and the new track. Access to I-10 will be via a new overpass that spans both the new track and I-10.
A series of aerial photos are available here:
?action=view¤t=marshstationrdnewoverpass.jpg
?action=view¤t=UPtrackrealignment10112010.jpg
?action=view¤t=UPrealignment10112010.jpg
narig01 Is this(mulitpath) why sometimes my GPS says I'm someplace besides where I am? Usually the error is 100 yards or less. Sometimes my GPS show me to be in the South Atlantic 100 miles off Guinea (yes I know 0 deg lat 0 deg long) thx IGN
Is this(mulitpath) why sometimes my GPS says I'm someplace besides where I am? Usually the error is 100 yards or less. Sometimes my GPS show me to be in the South Atlantic 100 miles off Guinea (yes I know 0 deg lat 0 deg long)
thx IGN
IGN:
Multipath is one of about a dozen things that will bite you. Top of the list is how many GPS Sattellites your handheld receiver sees. Strength of figure (where all your satellites are) and number of satellites (less than 5 and you have issues) probably is the main culprit. If you don't have a direct line of sight between the gps receiver and the sattelite, you have nothing. Trees, bridges, buildings, tunnels, etc. play heck with with GPS equipment (which is why surveyors can never rely totally on GPS equipment and have a total station/theodolite/transit & level around somewhere.).....my biggest headache at the moment is SCADA radio bursts interfering with the GPS radio.
That autonomous handheld GPS receiver will never be much better than plus or minus half a football field in actual fact and the vertical component will be suspect.
DC: I came in at the transition from vernier transit & chain to theodolites and the first EDM's on the railroad we both worked for. The number of railroads currently with GPS gear on hand is two and one of those doesn't use it for conventional survey work. (keeps those of us like PDN and I busy on the "dark side"...and most civil engineers anymore are a liability in a survey sense as well, it's just a coordinate to them.....the stinglining & scaling vs. instrument staking argument rages on)
Update as of October 15, 2010:
Nighttime at the Up and Over
City of Industry, CA
This poster happened to be by the "Up and Over" about 9:00 P.M. Friday night and the following two photos are filed with the forum ...
The north side looking southwestward on Sunset Ave.:
From Valley Blvd. on the south side, with a northwestward slant:
The shoe-fly is all gone, and the south side of Valley Blvd. roadway at Sunset Ave. is now blocked off with the north side now being used. The new traffic pattern affected only the immediate area by Sunset Ave., and a number of flood lights were in use. But, no actual activity seemed to be taking place.
As far as the "Up and Over" construction, the location seems to have returned to a snail-pace speed.
I didn't recognize the situation at the time, but in comparing the first photo above with the below previously posted photo ...
... the overhead grade crossing flasher bridge seems to have vanished! It is unknown if this is an illusion situation or not, but this poster is totally perplexed by the situation. As a father that got back home very late last night, I'm tempted to say, "Hey, boys. You wouldn't want to go back to Los Angeles and see another hockey game, would you?"
Land Surveying
In the previous page, much discussion took place reference this photo:
While this poster is not a licensed Land Surveyor (LS), he has been exposed to and has had some hands on experience with the subject. So, a very brief attempt will be made to give the forum a relevant overview of the trade practice, and its relationship to the Colton Flyover and the Sunset Route.
The premise of land surveying is the identification of and marking of points, often with construction and legal issues in mind, hence, the need for the "licensed" aspect.
Triangulation is a key element, with non-tangible vertical and horizontal line-of-site triangles used. To establish or verify a point somewhere out of sight behind, say, the freeway overpass in the above photo, often a number of zigzag points are established. In that way exact, initial non line-of-site locations can be definitively established or verified.
An odd quirk is with railroad mileposts. A one mile rail line from point "A" to point "B" is often NOT really from point "A" to point "B"! In a visual Pythagorean right triangle diagram, a mile of track on the long "hypotenuse" or slanted line (correlating to the actual railroad grade) is shorter than the full hypotenuse line, but a curved line can be drawn downward to the end of the corresponding "Adjacent" line. Comprehending and keeping suchlike things separated and correctly envisioned in a Land Surveyor's mind I suppose is an art in itself.
It is hoped the small bits of information above broadens the forum's knowledge of, respect for, and necessity for the land surveying industry. It is an often unrecognized important part of the Colton Flyover effort and Sunset Route two-tracking.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Sad News Related to the Diversion
Pomona, CA
PHOTO #1:
Longtime forum viewers of this thread will undoubtedly remember this dawn photo from the Highway 71 bridge that is dated May 10, 2009, close to a year and a half ago ...
PHOTO #2:
... and the easy pedestrian access to that bridge so as to take pictures.
PHOTO #3:
But such an easy overpass access is no longer possible, as the access road was turned into a cul-de-sac!
The overpass that Photo #1 was previously taken from is the distant overpass on the upper right of Photo #3.
PHOTO #4:
A close-up of the eliminated roadway:
Comparing Photo #4 with Photo #2 is sad.
It was thought that any Southern California area Diversion followers with a camera would want to know of the road elimination. It is too bad that the delayed and delayed and delayed Diversion Main D will now never be able to be photographed from the Highway 71 vantage point when the track is finally laid and ballasted, and trains are rolling over it.
K.P., thanks for the update. What happened in Pomona is an unfortunate side effect of the Mission 71 Project.
Looking on Google Maps, you may still be able to get to the tracks, if you go into the back parking areas of the businesses on that street (?)
mvs (10-17):
About the Second Street road closure, you said it right that "what happened in Pomona is an unfortunate side effect of the Mission 71 Project." In my case, the saddest part of the whole Mission 71 Project is that the intersection of Mission Blvd. and Highway 71 is totally gone now! It was moved a few hundred feet northward, and that is only temporary until the Highway 71 overpass is completed. When I was a kid and use to ride in the back seat of my parent's car, a number of times my parents were stopped at that super busy intersection by long timed red traffic lights as multiple routes cycled through. Memories of THAT intersection are so vivid! Now, it has all been moved. So sad!
In your post, you said: "Looking on Google Maps, you may still be able to get to the tracks, if you go into the back parking areas of the businesses on that street (?)." I smilingly saw your "(?)" in that statement. I've already tried that ...
(So that those at the forum that are unfamiliar with the area may know, the above previously shown photo is of the western end the long string of like buildings that mvs is speaking about.)
About a year and a half ago I found at the EASTERN end of the long string of like buildings a driveway WITHOUT a keep out type warning sign. That was right by CP C030 ROSELAWN. Within seconds after I drove in, I was swarmed by the complex's multiple security vehicles! Because of trying to be friendly and diplomatic, we all parted company smiling (at least, in my case, on the outside).
The closest that I've found to legally get anywhere near [CP] ROSELAWN is on the north side of the SP tracks where a public road is at, from which the previously posted photo below was shot from.
While I haven't seen any security in that whole area of late, I don't press my luck. I'm always expecting security monsters to jump out of the woodwork with humungous machine guns blazing ... Seriously, I just now try to stay on public property. Sometimes we can fudge things, but I haven't found any areas around the Pomona Diversion trackage that that can be done with.
At least it isn't like the Milliken Ave. area of Ontario. The public roadway signs there adjacent to the Sunset Route tracks advise motorists not to park, and not to even STOP momentarily!
Oh well ...
K.P.
Update as of Monday, October 18, 2010
Circumstantial Evidences
Colton, CA
The Colton Crossing was visited, and the below loaded flat truck trailer was observed.
The front (closest) used, strapped on grade crossing control box was from Fullerton Rd. in the City of Industry area.
The last unit was the old CP box from the east end of the Walnut siding!
Without an onsite Walnut visual confirmation, while the trailered CP box now at Colton is pretty clear, it is still circumstantial evidence that the new tri-light signals at Walnut are now operational.
A previously shown westward view, dated May 8, 2010, of the east end of the Walnut siding shortly after the new, non-operational tri-lights were first erected.
As viewed from the southwest quadrant at the Colton Crossing, a long eastbound (photographically rightward) ballast train happened to cross the diamonds, made up of UP maintenance-of-way green cars. Loaded ballast can barely be seen on the top of the rightmost ballast car.
Where the cars were being taken to is not known, but the train was unusually long. The "circumstantial evidence" suggests possibly Imperial County in California, and/or maybe somewhere in Arizona. Both of those areas UP recently announced were targeted for the resumption of two-tracking.
KP: I have found that many times new signal lights are activated by being connected to an old signal box or the opposite can also happen with a new signal box connected to old signal lights for some reason or another. I have never been able to discern why either situation happens. . Unless you are right there when the cut over is done lots of luck figuring out or maybe asking why.
Update as of Wednesday, October 20, 2010:
Burning the Midnight Oil
The New Tri-Light Signals
After dropping the Mrs. off in Los Angeles to attend an evening concert, the City of Industry area was checked out. Previously, there was "circumstantial evidences" that the tri-lights were now operational there. On site, it was found the new signals were in fact in operation between the EAST switch MARNE and the EAST switch WALNUT. The new cantilevered ones by the Industry Yard (the MARNE X-OVER) were still not in service, and black bags still covered the heads.
The westbound east signal at the east CP at MARNE, by Fullerton Ave.:
Previously, it had been mentioned that the lower head only was of a two-bulb type, and that that was non-conforming and inconsistent for a diverging route to a second main. That MAY have been done to avoid westbound crew confusion, and insure crews continue to enter (as they had done for years) the turnout route at the prescribed speed after coming off high-speed running.
The intermediate signals between MARNE and WALNUT, by Sentous Ave.
As at the east switch MARNE, the old signals by Sentous Ave. appear to have been removed and carted away.
There were other in-service new signals, but the lighting at those signals was not conducive to photography.
Misc.:
At the east switch of the BASSETT siding, by the western end of the City of Industry's 'Up and Over,' the signals have been burning for months and months, and are not presently approach lit. They will be eliminated after the second-track on the 'Up and Over' is laid (background center) and connected to the BASSETT siding (foreground right track).
The above grade crossing is at Puente Ave.
K.P.,
It seems that those signals at East Bassett are always lit, and always all red!
Yesterday, I checked out the Gila Sub between Casa Grande and Maricopa. There is CWR lying on both sides of the existing single track. There were several Herzog gondolas loaded with wooden ties, along with two flat car loads of concrete ties, sitting in the Casa Grande yard. The staging area in Bon is empty but there are several UP construction vehicles parked next to the Amtrak depot in Maricopa. All in all, it appears that they are replacing the old rail and there is nothing, at least as of yet, to indicate that construction of the second main is about to resume anywhere in that area.
John Timm
I have to wonder if they're waiting for the Illinois work (Alton-Springfield) to finish and move west?
HarveyK400 I have to wonder if they're waiting for the Illinois work (Alton-Springfield) to finish and move west?
That's not beyond the realm of possibility. When they were here the last time, there were crews from all over the system.
Awareness Update
Pomona-Walnut, CA
This is an awareness update only, and is based on sources assessable to this poster.
On October 17, 2010, about noontime, the new signal system was cut in from somewhere in the vicinity of the far western edge of the Diversion to the eastern edge of the MARNE siding (in the City of Industry).
The signals shown in the below previously un-shown May 16, 2010 file photo were taken out of service. The original Sunset Route trackage is between the depicted signals, with the far western edge of the new Diversion (with the ballast train power on it) BEHIND the signals, which track will merge into the Sunset Route a few hundred feet to the photo right.
In less than a mile to the west, towards the WALNUT siding, new tri-light signals replaced the above taken out of service signals.
In the general vicinity of the below curve the new tri-light mast is believed to be located, but that will need to be field checked. The below previously posted photo shot from Grand Ave. back on December 11, 2009 looks eastbound. Between Grand Ave. and the below photo's curve appears to be the midway point between the future [CP] SPADRA (an unofficially designation by this poster, which future CP is WEST of Temple Ave. in Pomona) and the east switch of the WALNUT siding towards the west.
This forumist hopes to get out to the Pomona-Walnut area within the next couple of weeks for an actual field check. In the meantime, some badly needed follow-up replies ...
jc_avq (10-16):
Great set of aerial link photos that you posted, jc_avq!
They really give a feel for the relocation project in Arizona.
blue streak 1 (10-19):
You make an interesting point about new and used CP boxes. I suspect that at the transition point in the City of Industry both new and used boxes are active. I'll have to check that out in the next daytime visit to that area.
mvs (10-24):
I don't think I've ever seen those eastbound west side tri-light signals at the east end of BASSETT siding anything but red, though I have seen an occasional eastbound elsewhere on the SP line.
desertdog (10-24):
Great, concise Arizona report, John!
BT CPSO 266 (Email):
Your email memo via Kalmbach WAS received by this poster, but trying to respond to suchlike things has traditionally been notoriously unsuccessful, and so it was with replying to your memo.
If you send me your email address, I will reply to your first email that you sent via Kalmbach. My email address is kpharrier@yahoo.com.
Best wishes everyone,
It Is Really True!
The October 19 post "Update as of October 18, 2010" had a photo (the last one) of an eastbound ballast train at Colton, CA, and the suggestion was made that the train might be heading to Imperial County, which the TRAINS Newswire had mentioned as a UP targeted area in its two-tracking resumption. Well, this poster visited Imperial County yesterday, and it can be reported that the two-tracking is in full force there!
Photos and a report will be filed with the forum tomorrow ...
K. P. Harrier It Is Really True! The October 19 post "Update as of October 18, 2010" had a photo (the last one) of an eastbound ballast train at Colton, CA, and the suggestion was made that the train might be heading to Imperial County, which the TRAINS Newswire had mentioned as a UP targeted area in its two-tracking resumption. Well, this poster visited Imperial County yesterday, and it can be reported that the two-tracking is in full force there! Photos and a report will be filed with the forum tomorrow ...
K.P. and all others:
I find this thread to be facinating. The personal annecdotes and the amount of 'bird-dogging' and simply time spent in driving and photographing, is nothing more than an amazing effort. Some fifty or so years ago, I found myself as a 'chainman' on a survey crew laying out the center line of I-40 from the Tenn. line about ten miles into North Carolina (an area travelers refer to as 'The Gorge' (along the French Broad R.)
Sure wish we had some of the technology MC and Paul North have mentioned here.
Update as of November 1, 2010:
The Resumption of Two-Tracking
Imperial County, CA
Part I (of I-VI)
The Ogilby Rd. Area
Not too terribly far west from the Colorado River (in the M.P. 732 area) by Yuma. AZ, two-tracking has resumed.
The below photos were taken from the Ogilby Rd. grade crossing at M.P. 716.6.:
At dawn, a westward view of the newly laid north side (right) second track.
An eastward view:
The north cross gate was relocated to allow room for the new track.
On the visit, UP track workers were conspicuously absent. That may have been attributed to what most of us consider an abnormal work schedule of many days on and then many days off.
Continued in Part II
Part II (of I-VI)
South of the tracks off the west side of Ogilby Rd. are TWO (not four) concrete burial items. Thus, likely they will be used as bases for intermediate signals by the grade crossing.
The concrete culvert has a small white square painted on it, with a black number "96" decaled on it.
The left, old, present intermediate signal (of the two) several hundred feet east from the grade crossing was NOT relocated to make room for the second main.
Continued in Part III
Part III (of I-VI)
For site comparisons, a few previously posted views that look east:
The following westward view shows just how warped the new track still is. It is hard to believe one or more ballast trains have actually traversed these semi-shiny new rails.
The above is in high-speed running territory. Amtrak runs can go 79 M.P.H., and freights up to 70 M.P.H. So, when the warped track is finally nice and manicured, theoretically, two high-speed trains should be able to meet and pass each other right at Ogilby Rd.
Continued in Part IV
Part IV (of I-VI)
The Sidewinder Rd. Area
A block or two north of the Sidewinder Rd. overpass over I-8 is the UP tracks. There, too, two-tracking is now present. (M.P. 723.4) Views look westward.
Unlike the Ogilby Rd. area, the above new track hasn't been ballasted yet.
Looking east, the big curve (with the new track, the topmost of the lower two) straightens out in the distance, and is where a new control point (CP) is being installed
It will be interesting to see if that CP will (or will not) be called "CP SIDEWINDER."
Continued in Part V
Part V (of I-VI)
The new CP is rather difficult to photograph, but the below obstructed view shows all four CP signal masts, with the far background signals being the east end of the CP
The below view is a telephoto of those far background east side signals. The forefront west signal is the western north unit. The south unit is out of view on the right.
The above photo is rather deceptive. The foreground tracks go eastward out of view on the lower right, and swing back leftward out of view between the new background signals.
While there are two signals at the CP's east side (background), apparently only one track as presently so will continue eastward. A mile or two to the east the line was field checked also, but no grading was found, but was as in the below previously showed photo of the abruptly mountainous area
Continued in Part VI
Part VI (of I-VI)
In the southwest area of the intersecting of the tracks and Sidewinder Rd. is a large, fenced staging area with floodlights on poles.
At photo time there was quite a number of pieces of equipment parked west just outside the gated area.
In the fenced yard there was also what looked like framing for a cantilever signal.
Since both Ogilby and Sidewinder Rds. already have the vehicular crossing gates repositioned and in place, the cantilever structuring will undoubtedly be used for train signaling purposes. Where and what type of odd arrangement thereat (necessitating a cantilever structure) is unknown. A cantilever structure was used at Bowie, AZ for a location where a mast signal wouldn't fit between a yard track (left) and the two mains.
It is hoped this six-part post series helps the forum to know (and believe) two-tracking HAS actually resumed after a long delay. When crews are finished in California, perhaps they will head to Arizona for possibly two-tracking east of Maricopa.
The Ogilby Rd. = County Rd. ''S34'' (OR ''534'' ?) grade crossing is about 15 miles NW of the Yuma airport, at these Lat. / Long. coordinates per the ACME Mapper 2.0 application -
N 32.81570, W 114.83781
From that crossing, to the west is Side Winder Rd., to the NE is American Girl Mine Rd., and to the NW is Ted Kipf Rd.
The Sidewinder Rd. N. overpass is at -
N 32.75003, W 114.75473
just north of Exit 164 of I-8 = Kumeyaay Freeway/ Highway, near 'Felicity'.
I couldn't make up these names if I wanted to . . .
- Paul North.
Paul_D_North_Jr The Ogilby Rd. = County Rd. ''S34'' (OR ''534'' ?) grade crossing is about 15 miles NW of the Yuma airport, at these Lat. / Long. coordinates per the ACME Mapper 2.0 application - N 32.81570, W 114.83781 From that crossing, to the west is Side Winder Rd., to the NE is American Girl Mine Rd., and to the NW is Ted Kipf Rd. The Sidewinder Rd. N. overpass is at - N 32.75003, W 114.75473 just north of Exit 164 of I-8 = Kumeyaay Freeway/ Highway, near 'Felciity'. I couldn't make up these names if I wanted to . . . - Paul North.
just north of Exit 164 of I-8 = Kumeyaay Freeway/ Highway, near 'Felciity'.
An interesting thread!
I sure am glad there are some 'natives' around to keep us vicarious tourists on the trail, and to show us 'the path!'
K. P. Harrier Update as of November 1, 2010: The Resumption of Two-Tracking Imperial County, CA Part IV (of I-VI) The Sidewinder Rd. Area A block or two north of the Sidewinder Rd. overpass over I-8 is the UP tracks. There, too, two-tracking is now present. (M.P. 723.4) [snip] Looking east, the big curve (with the new track, the topmost of the lower two) straightens out in the distance, and is where a new control point (CP) is being installed It will be interesting to see if that CP will (or will not) be called "CP SIDEWINDER." Continued in Part V
A block or two north of the Sidewinder Rd. overpass over I-8 is the UP tracks. There, too, two-tracking is now present. (M.P. 723.4) [snip]
K. P. - Is that CP-to-be just to the northwest of the truck weigh station/ inspection area that's about 3/4 mile east of the Sidewinder Rd. interchange ? Looks like there's a dry wash/ dirt road underpass there, too.
I also notice that just to the southwest of the grade crossing and equipment area that you photographed - about 1/10 mile away - a Highway Patrol station and compound is shown, so that location for the UP would be a really good place from a security and anti-theft and vandalism perspective.
Continuing with the odd road names: The driveway to that Hwy. Patrol station comes off the northern Frontage rd. there, which is apparently also named ''Center of the World Drive'' . . .
K.P., great work as always! Thank you for these pictures!
It looks like the east end of this stretch of two main tracks would be near the Sidewinder Road. My guess for the name of the control point you posted is Felicity.
Glad to see they are finally laying track on this area, as it has been graded for at least 1.5 years.
K. P. Harrier Part V (of I-VI) The Sidewinder Rd. Area [snip] While there are two signals at the CP's east side (background), apparently only one track as presently so will continue eastward. A mile or two to the east the line was field checked also, but no grading was found, but was as in the below previously showed photo of the abruptly mountainous area Continued in Part VI
The Sidewinder Rd. Area [snip]
Some earthwork would be needed, yes, but that's not at all intimidating. Judging solely from this limited view, it appears that the excavation or 'cut' quantities would roughly be equal to the required 'fill' quantities, such as in cubic yards. Also, it looks more sandy than rock-like, though that could be just a deceptive surface covering condition.
More likely, the delay in continuing the double-tracking further to the east are one or a combination of more than one of the following: Insufficient Right-Of-Way width someplace; permits needed from a government agency that owns the adjoining land; expensive structures needed to get over 'dry washes' for when they're not so dry, and/ or local roads; permits for any of the above, plus the various environmental, historic/ archeological, etc. reviews, etc.
Interestingly, from the aerial photo views it appears that only another 2 -3 miles farther to the east from this new CP, this line is already double-tracked from that point on east through Yuma - and that includes the curved bridge over the All-American Canal ! EDIT - The CP where the transition from 1 to 2 tracks occurs on the west side of that bridge is apparently known as ''Araz Junction''. END EDIT The only obstacles I see between this new CP and the existing double-track are about 7 short bridges over dry washes/ dirt roads as noted above. The 2 signals at the CP's east side that K.P. noted above likely have been placed in anticipation of filling that 2 - 3 mile gap in the near future. While a gap that short isn't fatal to the operation of the line, it isn't helpful, either. Also, those 7 structures - by themselves - are no big deal, unless there's something else not immediately obvious that's delaying the work. So it might take a year or 3, but I could see that short gap in the double-track being filled reasonably soon.
K.P., thanks for the update and hope it wasn't too hot out there .
Due to the low grades in the area, I wouldn't have expected a new control point near Sidewinder Rd. The next crossover east about five miles is Winterhaven (see Yuma sub map link in sig). Perhaps the latter CP's status can be checked on the next trip .... Looks like UP is placing signals near crossroads for quicker on-demand maintenance.
billioHot Dog!
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
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