MikeF90 billiothere are yards/terminals remaining to be constructed at Santa Teresa, NM, Red Rock, AZ, and Montclair, CA (if UP's plans don't change). Hey, billio! I don't remember reading anything about upgrading this specific yard and search didn't turn up anything quickly. Do you have any more details? Being in between the LA and Alhambra subs, it seems to be a flexible option for offloading and relieving congestion around West Colton yard.
billiothere are yards/terminals remaining to be constructed at Santa Teresa, NM, Red Rock, AZ, and Montclair, CA (if UP's plans don't change).
Fair Question. Please see Trains Magazine, Nov. 2007, "Creating a Sunset" by Fred W. Frailey, Page 36, Column 3 (text): "...The railroad also plans to improve the hump at West Colton, build a new manifest yard at Montclair, and double-track the Alhambra Subdivsion between West Colton and Pomona [emphasis added]."
The article cited is Fred Frailey's masterful exposition of UP's plans (in 2007) for developing its Sunset Route franchise.
I would add here a personal lament: that a follow-up on progress to date, not merely on the Sunset Route, but the T&P, the Golden State, other plans, would be most welcome.
cacole billio 1) Before it can proceed to eliminate the current restrictive clearances at Marsh Station Road, caused by the low overhead of UP's viaduct, Arizona DOT will first have to construct AND COMPLETE the 3-mile rail segment north of and parallel to I-10. To proceed in any other fashion would close the railroad. So...the railroad trackage should be up and running before too much of the highway work gets done. Not really. The Sunset Route is double track in this area. The line that crosses over I-10 on the low bridge near Cienega Creek is regarded as Track 2, the original SP line that has traditionally been used for east-bound traffic. Trains can be routed over Track 1, the second main between Vail and Mescal, which is the former El Paso & Southwestern line that has traditionally been for west-bound traffic, and is approximately one mile north of Track 2.
billio 1) Before it can proceed to eliminate the current restrictive clearances at Marsh Station Road, caused by the low overhead of UP's viaduct, Arizona DOT will first have to construct AND COMPLETE the 3-mile rail segment north of and parallel to I-10. To proceed in any other fashion would close the railroad. So...the railroad trackage should be up and running before too much of the highway work gets done.
1) Before it can proceed to eliminate the current restrictive clearances at Marsh Station Road, caused by the low overhead of UP's viaduct, Arizona DOT will first have to construct AND COMPLETE the 3-mile rail segment north of and parallel to I-10. To proceed in any other fashion would close the railroad. So...the railroad trackage should be up and running before too much of the highway work gets done.
Not really. The Sunset Route is double track in this area. The line that crosses over I-10 on the low bridge near Cienega Creek is regarded as Track 2, the original SP line that has traditionally been used for east-bound traffic. Trains can be routed over Track 1, the second main between Vail and Mescal, which is the former El Paso & Southwestern line that has traditionally been for west-bound traffic, and is approximately one mile north of Track 2.
Strictly speaking, you are absolutely correct, and I appreciate your pointing out my error. That said, however, recall that that we are talking about a major, two-tracked rail artery that sees 40-odd trains a day over a 20-some-mile line segment on which a train cannot pass from one main track to the other owing to the physical separation you noted above. By arbitrarily closing down one of the two tracks, you create a nasty --and unwanted -- bottleneck (an analogy: think of BNSF's Abo Canyon, except that the line through Abo is, what? five miles long and sees 80 trains per day, whereas UP's "fast track," Track 1, through this territory is 20-some miles long (Mescal to Vail) and sees 40 trains). Close the railroad? No, I wrote hastily. Disrupt operations? Almost certainly.
Operating types hate bottlenecks, and one created gratuitously would really torque them. Given that Amslak and a number of hotshots traverse the Sunset Route every day, the last thing the line dispatchers need is to lose 20 miles on one of their two mains -- especially after UP has gone to the considerable expanse of double-tracking from El Paso clear to Tucson (yes, there were a few miles of double track laid down before UP really got cranked up laying track).
Anyway, if I were UP (which I am not), I would forcefully make my case with Arizona DOT (were it so obtuse as to proceed before the track is finished) to complete the track first. Which is why I believe getting that three-mile segment of track completed has to be one of the first operations on Arizona DOT's to-do list.
But...that's merely the analysis of a bumpkin formerly from Virginia.
Update as of Friday, April 23, 2010:
Part I
Pomona, CA
New Concrete Ties Hauled In
This forum contributor found several small groups working on various projects throughout the future [CP] AL514 HAMILTON area on the above date.
About 1 P.M., a flatbed 18-wheeler arrived at Hamilton Blvd., plus a smaller flat UP vehicle, and they backed in eastward between the SP (background) and LA&SL (bottom) lines.
The small load of concrete ties thereafter immediately began to be offloaded, and transported eastward a short distance to continue the tie laying westward from the recently put together but not installed wood tied switch just west of White Ave.
That is the first real evidence of "B Main" track laying between the new uninstalled switch just west of White Ave. and Hamilton Blvd. You will recall that Hamilton Blvd. sometime in the future is reportedly supposed to be closed for a month, during which time the B-Main will be laid across it and the the roadway dug up for all the switch wires that will have to be buried under the crossing of the street.
Continued in Part II
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Part II
New Concrete Ties Hauled In (Continued)
Such small scale, short distance track laying operations are certainly in contrast to large scale, long distance operations, such as BNSF's was in Cajon Pass in 2008 ...
Suchlike track laying operations were used in the past for long distance Sunset Route two-tracking in Arizona and New Mexico. Even the two-tracking in California between Garnet and Indio. But, the distance in Pomona is much shorter, less than five miles, and it remains to be seen how that will be handled. But the piddly distances immediate in and around the future [CP] AL514 HAMILTON can (and are) being handle merely with truck off loadings.
Continued in Part III
Part III
Montclair, CA
The Ramona Ave. Overpass
The west switch interlocking (AL517) of the NORTH MONTCLAIR siding, at M.P. 516.9, is having the Ramona Ave. overpass being built over it. Construction is now in the late stages.
The overpass now has sidewalks and fencing (photo top left) on each side of the as yet unpaved bridge roadway.
The fresh NEW views that will result will be a boon for railfan pedestrian observers and photographers alike. A boon because NOT ONLY are both the SP Alhambra and the parallel LA&SL Los Angeles Subs expected to be two-tracked in the future and the overpass would allow good viewing and photography of that track laying, but soon a better view should be available of HOW the LA&SL curves southward slightly near the overpass site on its trek eastward. Unless a person was actually at the Ramona Ave. grade crossing (which obviously no longer exists), one could not really tell the track curved and angled off slightly.
K.P., great series of pictures.
Thank you for photographing the construction of the overpass at Ramona Avenue. SANBAG has not provided any pictures since June of last year, and the Montclair city website is even worse. It appears that this overpass might be finished in the next 2-3 months?
Update as of Sunday, April 25, 2010:
Track Laying
A visit on the date above found partial track laying westward had reached Hamilton Blvd. and slightly beyond.
An east side of Hamilton Blvd. view.
Looking west.
The preliminary new track alignments are probably just that, preliminary, as the alignments are different on each side of Hamilton Blvd. The east side (the first photo) has new incomplete track more toward the north, whereas the west side (the second photo) has minimal new ties on more of a south side alignment.
This forum contributor is inclined to believe, after all the unloading is done, track assembled, and everything is finished, the alignment shift from the LA&SL side to the SP side will take place somewhere EAST of Hamilton Blvd., though it is possible the alignment shift could angle across the roadway.
But, note the below previously posted photo shot back on October 17, 2008:
Back then, a continuous line of small little flared markers stuck in the ground (barely visible by the LA&SL track on the right in the above photo) gave one the distinct impression that a new track and its alignment on the south side would follow the south side LA&SL further east before alignment shifting to the SP side to avoid the White Ave. underpass opening and guard railings around it (just right of photo center).
mvs It appears that this overpass might be finished in the next 2-3 months?
K.P., we just missed each other in Pomona. I was up on the pedestrian bridge wondering why that manifest train in your picture was stopped and blocking three grade crossings.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
LA&SL Montclair Yard
At the time, one of the things that struck this poster was that the many freight cars therein had rusted wheels, and not shiny as the typical active wheel has. Obviously, they had not been moved for awhile.
It is unknown what the present status is of the yard.
Photo information: Left is west, right is east. The Sunset Route mainline is the topmost track, with the NORTH MONCLAIR siding on the left. On the bottom right is the LA&SL main, with the siding just above it.
Update as of Thursday, April 29, 2010:
The Future [CP] AL514 HAMILTON
First off, let me apologize for the below bizarre quality photos. The Mrs. is out of state with our better camera, so I will have to make do with a lessor quality camera for a few weeks.
The photos below convey what is currently going on in Pomona, and it is felt the news value supersedes image quality.
You will recall that on the west side of Hamilton Blvd. a group of concrete ties were put down immediately north of the south side LA&SL track. Yesterday's early morning visit found those ties as two separated track sections just south of the SP-side tracks.
This poster is inclined to believe they are destined to be grade crossing installed across Hamilton Blvd. for Mains A and B.
Looking east from Hamilton Blvd., the 'being put together' track just south of the SP-side mains seems like it was now all put together. The 'cheap' camera does not do well looking into the sun.
The same track from another angle. The future switch in the background that is laying uninstalled right by White Ave. (the underpass railings) distinctly looks like a "wye" switch. Whether it is or not will become evident in the future.
Looking west again with a telephoto ... Just east of [CP] OAK it appears another switch is in the early stages of being assembled.
At this point, it is unknown exactly when this poster can make a return trip to Pomona for further checking out the area ... But things appear to be progressing forward now, though slowly.
KP,
This entire thread is wonderful information. Thank you very much for taking the time to document via pictures and explain (in easy to understand terms) what we're seeing. IMO Trains should get this thread into a nice long follow up article to their 2007 article. It is something that should be shared with those not on the interwebs.
Dan
K. P. Harrier [snip] The same track from another angle. The future switch in the background that is laying uninstalled right by White Ave. (the underpass railings) distinctly looks like a "wye" switch. Whether it is or not will become evident in the future. [snip]
[snip]
I dunno, K.P. - it's kinda rare to build a switch anyplace other than right where it's going to be installed, though it is occasionally done. It looks more to me like this one is going to be a 'wye' switch, right where it's at. There seems to be room for another track in the open space between the 2 mains, and that way, the signal won't have to be moved, either ! We'll just have to wait and see, though, I suppose.
Meanwhile, thanks again for your curiosity in checking out all this, and taking the photos and posting them here from time to time. It is pretty interesting to follow, even from 2,800 or so miles away . . . .
- Paul North.
?????
http://www.catc.ca.gov/programs/TCIF/TCIF_Amended_Program_December_2009.xls
Exactly what should be inferred and interpreted from that is unknown. Maybe somebody at the forum has an interpretation and will share ...
mvs (4-25):
While in the Pomona-Montclair area this past Thursday, the grading on the Ramona Ave. overpass seemed complete. The "quarterly status report" MikeF90 referred to (4-26) may indeed be right on with completion in "early May."
MikeF90 (4-26):
Yes, we must have just missed each other. Its funny that I had a STRANGE feeling, and said to myself: "I'm surprised I haven't ever seen anybody from the forum here." With you nearby, maybe I was feeling the railfan "force" in the area, as in the "force" in Star Wars ...
And, the train you mentioned blocking three grade crossings ... I arrived in Pomona to take my college boy shopping, and saw that train stopped, which I thought was unusual. Several hours later when I could finally get to the business of doing what railfans do, the train was still blocking those same grade crossings!
CNW 6000 and Paul D. North Jr. (4-30):
Thanks, guys.
Both of you undoubtedly see UP power on UP rails or being pooled through your area, and it super likely has been through the Sunset Route and the areas of the photos in this thread. Power sure gets around. A number of years ago I traveled out the Sunset Route, and saw UP SD70M #4539 leading an eastbound through Arizona. A few days later I was in Nebraska, and following UP's Central Corridor. Low and behold, here came the same #4539 westbound! A few months even later I saw it in Cajon Pass on the BNSF.
So, guys, your areas of residence, in some ways, may be closer to the Sunset Route two-tracking than you ever thought!
Take care.
K.P.
KP, in reference to the switches being out of correspondence a few pages back, here's some info I got from a friend through e-mail..
When a switch is out of correspondence, it means the field doesn't correspond with what the DS has on his screen. Say the dispatcher wanted to cross a train over. He would request the switches to reverse on his screen then send his intent to the Mobile Control Point (MCP) in the field. After he does that the new route will flash yellow until all switches / frogs in the field correspond with what the dispatcher has on his screen. Once all the switches/frogs change to reflect what the dispatcher has requested, the MCP will send a signal back telling him all switches/frogs are lined and locked. When they all don't line and lock (Like the DS requested on his display) the Control Point is said to be "Out of Correspondence". This is usually due to a piece of ballast or debris in the switch points.
Regarding the signals at Humane Way, he says he's 99% sure that they will be intermediates, based on track charts that he has.
Thanks,
--Robert
Update as of Tuesday, May 4, 2010:
Current Happenings
Part A (of A-C)
Colton Flyover
As this is posted, and if everything is understood correctly by this poster, there are three key dates to watch for on the Colton Flyover:
First, May 7, 2010: An agreement reportedly MUST be signed by a "consensus group" and in the hands of the California Transportation Commission
Second, May 17: State officials must forward the above agreement to the federal economic stimulus people.
Third, May 18: The California Transportation Commission must approve the deal.
Missing any of those dates MAY end the project.
Exactly what could be built for $202 million is unknown, but there must be some logic and reason for the high price. But, frankly, this poster is expecting the worst. To get numerous parties with differing objectives to agree on anything is often near impossible.
If worst came to worst, the railroads could still build something ... and commuter interests would shudder because if the railroads paid for it WITHOUT public funds there is no need for a "public benefit"!
In 1966-7, the Southern Pacific Palmdale Cutoff was built, which rerouted trains on a north-south line at Palmdale directly to Colton, bypassing Los Angeles. That then new route saved about 40 miles. Thereafter, the Sunset Route was accessed from both Los Angeles and Colton.
On the eastern edge of Palmdale, an overpass bridge was erected. The track actually elevated up, over, and went down the other side.
An eastward view (southbound) of the up and over from 47th Street at M.P. 418.80 (NOT the Sunset Route).
The bridge outline at the top of the above photo is the same bridge shown below. The highway is S.R. 138.
In theory, the Colton Flyover could be of such a simple design, though twice as high and over twice as long, and could be built rather quickly and for seemingly the price of a song and a dance.
At this point, it is anyone's guess as to what will develop. But, this poster believes the railroads know exactly what they will do in response to however the cards fall.
This poster believes, too, all those previously shown signal masts (above) in Colton are there for a reason, and could be used for "Plan A" or "Plan B," if we want to call the railroads' options that.
Continued in Part B
Part B (of A-C)
Colton Signal Dept.
On a visit to the Colton area yesterday, Tuesday, May 4, 2010, this poster noted that much was going on.
Signal cable was being loaded onto a UP truck, plus a signal. It is UNKNOWN what the destination of such was.
(Pomona was also visited, but nothing seemed to be going on there.)
Several masts seemed to have been taken from the Colton stack.
Continued in Part C
Part C (of A-C)
Three signals were in assembly.
Four signals, whether on poles or a signal bridge, are needed for the west side of the new CP AL514 HAMILTON in Pomona, and a whole lot of signal and switch wire. It is unknown if the above activity was for that Pomona site or not.
And a great photo find: The two signal boxes for AL514 HAMILTON were OPEN and had workers working in them!
It must be getting real close to the time when those CP boxes will be transported to downtown Pomona!
cabcar (5-3):
Your post was a great, clarifying one. Thanks.
Whatever happened to simple railroad phraseology? In the past a dispatcher advising a maintainer, "The switch won't go into reverse," seemed so obvious. Now, its the not so obvious "the switch is out of correspondence."
As far as the two three-lamp heads for the eastbound Main A (our designation) signal at Humane Way ... As theorized previously, the lower head's top bulb may be a green one, possibly indicating a crossover lineup at Montclair. I now say "crossover" because, as I understand it, the LA&SL gap in the two-tracks on the line to Riverside may be filled in a few years. In the meantime, the joint [CP] AL515 RESERVOIR / [CP] C033 WO TOWER location may continue as is for awhile, making a lower green at Humane Way unnecessary. So, it may take a few years to actually see that lower top bulb lit.
Does your DS friend have anything to convey about the track layout on the SP-side WEST of the unhooked up CP west Temple Ave., and what that CP will be called? I'm betting on its name being SPADRA, but I may have to eat crow on that one ...
Thanks again, cabcar, for the clarification and knowledgeable, authoritative information.
K. P. HarrierDoes your DS friend have anything to convey about the track layout on the SP-side WEST of the unhooked up CP west Temple Ave., and what that CP will be called? I'm betting on its name being SPADRA, but I may have to eat crow on that one ...
It should be either Spadra or Temple, but no official word yet.
Various updates I observed:
Along Valley Boulevard I noticed that the old SP searchlight/target signals at CP SP508 Walnut (East Walnut) as well as the intermediate signals between Walnut and Marne are going to be replaced with the UP hooded signals. Sad to see the searchlights go.
Update as of Saturday, May 8, 2010:
According to the Press-Enterprise newspaper of Riverside, CA (a city about seven to eight miles southwest of Colton), the deadline was met for an agreement between the parties involved in the Colton Crossing matter. A time deadline extension was made to now get signed letters from the "consensus group."
For those that would like more detailed information, it is suggested that they read the article dated this date. One has to register to use the site, but it is free. The website is http://www.pe.com/. In 'search' therein, type "Colton Crossing" and hit "Enter." The latest articles are listed. The material is dated May 8, 2010 for those reading this post at some future date.
The pe.com site has generally been pretty good and accurate. However, the May 8 article's diagram shows tracks to be eliminated (#4 in the above article's box) as north of I-10, whereas the correct direction is south.
mvs (5-8):
Your posted report on the Industry area was excellent, timely, and in my case, most ironic. I say 'ironic' because I had gotten an unexpected 'dispatch' to Pomona Friday night, so after my business Saturday, I checked out the Pomona area, which had absolutely no activity regarding the Diversion. The new Ramona Ave overpass, though, was now paved, but still not open yet. Because all those signals at the Colton Signal Dept. was not jiving with what I was seeing in Pomona, I went further west, and found the same signals in the Industry area that you reported. But, I saw an inconsistency between the Colton transportable signals and the Industry erected ones. It is hoped some photos (and interpretations) can be posted in the next day or two for the benefit of the forum.
Take care, mvs, and everyone ...
Happenings by the City of Industry, CA
Part I (of I-V)
The Industry photos in this series were shot Saturday, May 8, 2010.
The big project is the up and over, which is progressing nicely.
You may recall the below, very frail worker bridge (photo center top) over Orange Ave. photographed on February 15, 2010.
A much stronger structure suitable of carrying the weight of 200+ ton locomotives has replaced the frail, temporary bridge.
Part II (of I-V)
Railings and signals on the up and over have been erected. The left signal will undoubtedly correspond to the present single-track main.
The way the lower heads exist and don't exist on the above photo suggests that the BASSETT and NEW SIDING sidings will be connected together, with perhaps a double-crossover at the present EAST end of BASSETT. Because the RIGHT signal mast does NOT have a lower eastbound head suggests the present EAST end of NEW SIDING (which does NOT return to the Main) will remain the same. The siding is the track closet to the camera in the below previously shown photo, with that track continuing on the right into the Industry Yard.
Such a BASSETT-NEW SIDING continuous arrangement would be consistent with the theorized clockwise orientation suggested previously in this topic. (Eastbound trains destined to enter the yard may have to wait to get in, and a long siding would afford them that ability.) Presently on the two separate LA&SL and SP sides, a counterclockwise orientation exists. In the future, the Industry Yard is suppose to be for indiscriminate gathering of boxcar traffic heading east to the future Red Rock classification yard in Arizona, and the orientation that would work best with that arrangement would be a clockwise one in the Los Angeles Basin, but especially for Industry.
The south side mast is so close to the up and over structure's edge that a platform had to be built.
Part III (of I-V)
The east end of the WALNUT siding and new signals. Note that the heads were in place, and turned aside.
The above photo was taken from Brea Canyon Road at M.P. 508.0. The single-track line here will obviously not be two-tracked ... at least not anytime soon.
Previously, it was shown that the Colton Signal Department's yard had signals being assembled. They were being put together WITH heads also on them. That is a significant point in relation to the next Part IV.
Continued in Part IV
Part IV (of I-V)
But, all the new signals at the WEST end of the WALNUT siding were erected WITHOUT heads! The lower track in the first photo below is the siding.
Thus, this forumist is a bit confused as to where the signal yard of origin is located for the Industry area activity. They may or may not be coming from the Colton Signal Department.
Some nearby areas did not have new signal replacements at all.
Continued in Part V
Part V (of I-V)
The Lemon Ave. grade crossing (M.P. 506.7, by Valley Blvd.) is between the switches of the WALNUT siding, but quite close to the west end. On the May 8 photo date, new crossing gates had been erected and parts of an old one was being carried away.
A full set of crossing gates were being installed, so no auto traffic from either side can cross the tracks. It is probably a modification to be a quiet zone where trains do not blow their horns.
A common link (sort of, anyway) to the Colton Signal Facility, wherever the installed equipment had come from, is how new equipment is being transported to the installation site.
The above flat trailer had Nebraska license plates. It must go wherever it is needed on the UP system, roaming from the Pacific Northwest to Louisiana, from Wisconsin to obviously California.
This will conclude this series.
Some new work going on in the vicinity of Maricopa, AZ CP ENID, it appears that they are going to be replacing a bridge/culvert section just west of Maricopa proper and will be putting in some I beams to replace the old SP bridge/culvert already in use, this may require the shutdown of Main 2 for a few days so they can complete this project.
http://www.westcoastrailforums.com/view_topic.php?id=3983&forum_id=73
More on the Colton Crossing
The Sun newspaper (San Bernardino, CA ) has an excellent update story on the Colton Crossing. It appears that the consensus group is basically now all in agreement on building the flyover.
Those wishing to read the free story can currently do so at the following link:
http://www.sbsun.com/
HOWEVER, the story is only viewable for about TWO weeks.
This date, it is the lead story, and easy to locate. Otherwise, during the next few weeks, type in the place for it "Colton Crossing" and mouse click "Search," and you should be able to read the May 10 story.
The Colton Signal Dept.
This morning I unexpectedly had to take one of my boys to visit the doctor (for pink eye), and had no camera. A brief swing by the Colton Signal Dept. was made, however. Two NEW grade crossing boxes were at the site, one marked 'Park Ave.' and the other 'Magnolia Ave.' They had NO M.P. locations on them. This poster presumes 'Park Ave.' means the Park Ave in Pomona that is just east of the east signal bridge at the new [CP] AL514 HAMILTON. The other might be for Magnolia Ave in Riverside on the LA&SL. The latter crossing is in the preliminary stages of having an underpass built thereat.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
So how far along are they? I left in may of 08. they had just finished cpRillito and were grading at cpRedrock. did the get from cpStockham to cprillito yet.Did they replace the bridge across the Rillito
Update as of Thursday, May 13, 2010:
The Colton Crossing
The Riverside Press-Enterprise is reporting that everything is now cleared for the California Transportation Commission to vote on the Colton Crossing. The article is at the following link (one has to register to use it):
http://www.pe.com/localnews/sbcounty/stories/PE_News_Local_D_colcrossing13.4853f69.html
Apparently, the vote will take place on May 20, 2010 in Sacramento, CA (the state capitol) after 1:30 P.M.
An itemized list is at the following link ... See #23:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/transprog/ctcliaison/2010/0510/0510_ETA.pdf
This poster has no idea whether the CTC will approve or reject the Colton Flyover as the "consensus group" has signed off on.
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