Update as of Wednesday, February 29, 2012
Part X (of I-X)
Fast Progress at the Milliken Ave. Flyover
Ontario, CA
The far western part had access through raising dirt also. Note the railings now just left of center.
Sometimes a strange-like machine blocked the narrow road alongside the flyover, sometimes it didn't.
This will conclude the Wednesday, February 29, 2012 series report.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
I regards to the natural crossover at Cienega Creek east of Tucson on the Sunset Route, the story here is far more interesting than that of the Santa Fe's natural crossovers at Frost and Pinaveta.
The Southern Pacific originally built their mainline east from Tucson to El Paso in the late 1800's. Upset with the SP monopoly and high rates, Phelps Dodge (a large copper company in the region) constructed their own railroad from El Paso to Tucson in the early 1900's. It was called the El Paso and Southwestern (EP&SW). Having been built twenty or more years later than the SP, it was generally much better engineered.
Times change however and the SP leased the entire EP&SW in 1924 (the purchased it outright in 1955). The much better line between Tucson and Mescal became part the westward track of a double track arrangement while the old SP became the eastward line. The bulk of the line from Mescal to Anapra (about 10 miles west of El Paso) run 30+ miles to the south of the SP line, so it became a secondary main for the SP, commonly called the SOUTH LINE, while the original SP line thru Lordsburg was called the NORTH LINE. The entire SOUTH LINE from Mescal to Anapra was eventually abondoned, but even as late as 1996 (possibly even after the UP merger), the local running from Tucson to Lordsburg was commonly called the North Line Local. The Anapra-El Paso became double track, with each line having its own impressive steel bridge across the Rio Grande.
When the Air Force Base at Tucson was enlarged in the 1950's, the Southern Pacific relocated the original SP line off the base by adding a second track to the old EP&SW line from Tucson to Vail. When CTC was added to the Sunset Route in the 1950's and 1960's. They added it from Vail west and Mescal east. Between Vail and Mescal, Main No. 1 (the old EP&SW) was CTC'ed while Main No. 2 (the old original SP) remained eastbound only ABS with semaphores. This remained until 1996 when SP added CTC to the No. 2 track as part of the double tracking work from Mescal to Dragoon.
So at one time the Cienega Creek Bridge wasn't a natural crossover, but instead a place where competitors crossed over/under each other!!! One thing I don't know is if the SP and EP&SW crossed at grade or on a flyover at Mescal. I will have to research this one day.
K.P., some of your most recent fine photos of CP Farmer Boys, er, the Milliken Ave flyover raise some questions for speculative answer. In particular, the 'gaps' in the flyover to accomodate industrial spurs must eventually be filled.
How, you ask? I've created a special 'speculation' map with the guesstimated spans of selected flyovers, crossovers, sidings and spurs (past, present and future) on the Alhambra sub to help us divine the possible future. Based on the current 'evidence' for this flyover, I believe that the west spur will be extended west to about CP AL525 and the east spur may get a 'sawback' that connects just west of I-15.
Awaiting further confirmation from helicopter or model airplane flyover footage ....
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
BNSF6400 So at one time the Cienega Creek Bridge wasn't a natural crossover, but instead a place where competitors crossed over/under each other!!! One thing I don't know is if the SP and EP&SW crossed at grade or on a flyover at Mescal. I will have to research this one day.
BNSF6400:
I've walked this area several times, and know that the EP&SW line approached Mescal from the south-east (Bisbee), crossed OVER the original SP line on a high bridge approximately 1/2 mile east of the Mescal Road crossing, and then curved westward.
You can still follow the old EP&SW roadbed southward from Mescal to Bisbee, eastward to Douglas, and then north-east into New Mexico using Google Earth. Start by zeroing in on Mescal, Arizona, then scroll eastward approximately 1/2 mile. If you have the scale set correctly when Earth zooms in on Mescal, you can see the present UP line and the old EP&SW roadbed at the top of the screen. The old EP&SW roadbed shows up very clearly because they used black slag from the copper smelter at Douglas as ballast, and the roadbed has not overgrown.
Even though the line was abandoned many years ago and portions have been lost to development, the undisturbed areas show up very prominently on satellite images.
Despite the difference in elevation between the SP and EP&SW lines at Mescal, there was an interchange track between the two. This can also be seen in the satellite image.
Of Tranquilizers and Gemstones
An Interpretive Analysis of Three of Andy Bohman's Arizona Photos
As ANDY117 (Andy Bohmann) had promised, he post linked photos of the Picacho area of Arizona, plus nearby areas also. They had excellent brief captions. K.P. had been having severe withdrawals (figuratively, of course) for his continuing inability to get back over to Arizona from California to see what was happening there. So, thanks Andy for the tranquilizer-like linked photos.
This post will serve as an unofficial INTERPRETATION of what is happening in the Picacho area as discerned from Andy's fine photos that are sort of like valuable diamonds and gems. Three select significant photos are linked and commented on ...
At the newly put in service CP SP938 EAST PICACHO (just east of the old CP of the same number), the linked view's LEFT west side eastbound signal (corresponding to the old north siding) is of a red over something over something type (a rare THREE heads)!
First linked photo
A single bulb top head over something is most frequently used with 40 M.P.H. turnouts. Recently issued advisories to train crewmen do list those switches as of the 40 M.P.H. type! Such 40 M.P.H. switches are new to Arizona, as previous two-tracking crossovers have utilized 50 M.P.H. turnouts.
Main 2 has NOT been laid yet in the above photo, explaining the unlit, trackless right signal.
On the east side of CP SP938 EAST PICACHO both lower heads (for westbound traffic) have four bulbs, i.e., they have a lunar. At this point in time, without an onsite visual inspection, it is difficult to comment on the situation.
Second linked photo
A viable possibility is that Main 2's (left) lower head's lunar bulb is for a yellow over lunar in advance of a spur / uncontrolled short siding entrance somewhere to the west, perhaps in Eloy. But, the right lower head's lunar (for Main 1) is less clear, especially if the Phoenix Line junction switches are 40 M.P.H. too. Without an official diagram or onsite visual inspection, it cannot be said for sure what the lower lunar bulbs are for. At this point, even an onsite inspection may be inconclusive in a yet under construction period.
The single set of intermediates BETWEEN the new CP SP938 EAST PICACHO and the new CP SP943 WYMOLA have single-bulb lower heads in both directions.
Third linked photo
In the just above link, the lower heads are INCONSISTENT with 40 M.P.H. crossovers and turnouts. It is unknown if the wrong type mast signals were installed, a new signaling policy is in force, or special applications (or future ones) are involved, which is very possible in either direction considering the location.
CP SP943 WYMOLA could possibly be an entrance CP for the future Red Rock Yard. Here again, without diagrams or official word, a field check seems necessary.
The first new intermediates east of CP SP943 WYMOLA have (or at least back on November 5, 2011 had anyway) westbound single-bulb lower heads also! Again, those three possibilities seem to be in play, as lower heads are inconsistent with traditional 40 M.P.H. advance crossover signal displays. Those intermediates are shown in the below non-ANDY117 photo by K.P.
At this point in time there are a lot of questions as to what is taking place, but, thanks to ANDY117, we at least have some visuals to ponder.
Replies ...
BNSF6400 (3-3):
Your history background input on the SP and EP&SW for the Cienega Creek area over to El Paso was enlightening. It added a new dimension to the Sunset Route.
In the late 1960's I stumbled across (and read) a thesis on Colton, CA. The Sunset Route came through what is now Colton in 1875, which town was named after David Colton. For whatever reason, one day decades ago I happened to be walking around the graves at Hermosa Cemetery in Colton and stumbled across David Colton's grave! I also saw a few other gravestones of prominent people that I had read about and who were instrumental in the history of Colton and the Sunset Route that passed through the town. Kind of gives one a funny feeling to actually stand by and see grave markers of instrumental people in history!
Your post's historical information and the above can give thread followers a whole different perspective.
MikeF90 (3-4):
That was a great post that map-linked key areas. Thanks Mike!
In perusing your post effort, I couldn't help but recall email information I got from the Alameda Corridor East people just a few days ago. It listed EIGHT projects, including the Hamilton Blvd. underpass in Pomona, CA, where the new, big, multi-track CP AL514 HAMILTON will be. An overpass over the four-tracks there would be simple, but an underpass will be a crammed-in shoefly a-go-go! That will be a show in itself!
You, and the forum, can look at the list (page 6) at:
THE ACE REPORT
A Technical Correction:
The following AT&SF related material was previously posted on March 1, 2011 in THIS thread:
K. P. Harrier [Edited] HarveyK400 (2-26): ... Atchison Topeka & Santa Fe (AT&SF) had a maverick situation on its double-track (NOT two-tracks) line pre-circa 1960 ... Its left biased Cajon line eastward to Frost, CA (near Victorville) had a "natural crossover" (shown with a westbound) ... ... then was right biased to near Ash Fork, AZ, where the line again had a natural crossover ... AT&SF Natural Flyover Area West of Ash Fork, AZ ... and was left biased again all the way east to Belen, NM. With the big AT&SF line relocation circa 1960, the natural crossover west of Ash Fork, AZ was eliminated and a big section of the double-track line (i.e., from Seligman to Winslow, AZ) was re-signaled as bi-directional two-tracks and dispatches where thereafter responsible to mastermind left running to right running transitions [...]
[Edited]
HarveyK400 (2-26):
... Atchison Topeka & Santa Fe (AT&SF) had a maverick situation on its double-track (NOT two-tracks) line pre-circa 1960 ... Its left biased Cajon line eastward to Frost, CA (near Victorville) had a "natural crossover" (shown with a westbound) ...
... then was right biased to near Ash Fork, AZ, where the line again had a natural crossover ...
AT&SF Natural Flyover Area West of Ash Fork, AZ
... and was left biased again all the way east to Belen, NM.
With the big AT&SF line relocation circa 1960, the natural crossover west of Ash Fork, AZ was eliminated and a big section of the double-track line (i.e., from Seligman to Winslow, AZ) was re-signaled as bi-directional two-tracks and dispatches where thereafter responsible to mastermind left running to right running transitions [...]
K.P. has learned there was ANOTHER natural crossover EAST of Ash Fork ...
ANOTHER AT&SF NATURAL CROSSOVER
... so from THAT natural crossover east to Winslow was normally right biased.
A clarification was made elsewhere in another thread, but since the subject was previously mentioned in this topic, it was desirable to set the record straight herein also ...
Best wishes everyone,
K.P.
K. P. HarrierMikeF90 (3-4): That was a great post that map-linked key areas. Thanks Mike! In perusing your post effort, I couldn't help but recall email information I got from the Alameda Corridor East people just a few days ago. It listed EIGHT projects, including the Hamilton Blvd. underpass in Pomona, CA, where the new, big, multi-track CP AL514 HAMILTON will be. An overpass over the four-tracks there would be simple, but an underpass will be a crammed-in shoefly a-go-go! That will be a show in itself! You, and the forum, can look at the list (page 6) at: THE ACE REPORT
After several months of faithfully lurking around this thread, I have finally logged back in. K.P., your pictures and updates have been awesome to read. Thank you for sharing everything with us. I look forward to this thread more than many other websites. I've enjoyed a lot of the pictures from everyone else here, too.
As far as Hamilton Boulevard, the underpass will be difficult to construct, but there are already a few underpasses in Pomona, so maybe it is the best option. It looks like there will be another "Up-and-Over" at Fairway Drive and Valley Boulevard--that will be a steep climb for eastbound trains leaving Marne and the Industry yard. Finally, I am surprised to see ACE hasn't decided what to do with the Puente Avenue/Workman Mill Road and Valley Boulevard intersection--I read something on the ACE website stating that there might be an underpass there.
There was never a natural crossover or flyover EAST of Ash Fork. The aerial photo you linked is the result of see two different alignments for the same track...in this case the original ATSF mainline (the later added second track is north of here). This is how it was for a eastbound train running from Los Angeles to Belen in 1945:
LOS ANGELES to SAN BERNARDINO: Most passenger trains via Pasadena on the LA Division's 2nd District while lower class passenger trains and all freights via Fullerton on the LA Division's 3rd District.
SAN BERNARDINO to FROST: Left hand running.
FROST to PINAVETA (Natural crossover WEST of Ash Fork): Right hand running.
PINAVETA to BELEN: Left hand running, was over 300 miles but not nearly as famous as the Chicago & North Western left hand running. To comply with signal rules, almost every signal was on either a full or cantilever signal bridge.
CHANGES: 1) New alignment from Crookton (west of Pinaveta) to Williams. This alignment was bi-directional two main tracks with CTC signals. New signals extended east to Maine, AZ (between Williams and Flagstaff). This section was usually left hand bias with the dispatcher switching from left to right running and verse visa at Seligman since all trains stopped there for passenger stop or crew change (thus slowing down to crossover was an issue).
2) CTC signals extended east from Maine, Ariz. to Winslow, Ariz. With three mainlines and a passenger siding at Winslow, this became the perferred flip over location.
3) CTC signals plus a line relocation on Cajon Pass made bi-directional operations between San Bernardino and Daggett possible.
4) Final double track coverted to CTC two main tracks in the following order: Ibis-East Needles (1980ish), West Defiance to Belen (1984-85), East Needles to West Seligman (1998?), Daggett to Ibisi (1999?), East Winslow to West Defiance (2000). This ended all directional running, however, Winslow-Belen is still preferred left hand running for dispatchers.
A bit of additional information on the misidentified natural crossover EAST of Ash Fork.
This is the location were the two main tracks split as you head east out of Ash Fork. The South Track here is the original 1880's built ATSF mainline. The North Track was constructed later, in the 1920's. After the Crookton Cutoff was built to the north, there was no need for two tracks between Ash Fork and Williams, but one track was needed to connect the Phoenix line at Ash Fork to the mainline at Williams. The newer and faster North Track was selected while the South Track was removed. With the South Track gone, the relatively tight curve on the North Track could be realigned and it ended up swinging over the old south track alignment, creating the appearance of a natural crossover.
All this information I know since my grandfather and uncle were Santa Fe engineers out of Needles and operated over the Needles-WInslow segment literally hundreds of time. I learned a lot about the history of the Santa Fe in Arizona from them.
BNSF6400 (3-6):
That was great that you had ancestor connections so as to make authoritative comments on the BNSF / AT&SF line in Arizona. My attempt to find the truth about that line somehow gravitated to this thread only as a passing thought.
West of Ash Fork, AZ
Perhaps you, BNSF6400, could duplicate your Ash Fork, AZ knowledgeable posted thoughts or similar ones in the thread "The Old, Abandoned AT&SF Transcon in Arizona (w/ Photos)" currently on the first page of the General Discussion. Those that are following that discussion certainly would appreciate such excellent information.
Best,
Second that suggestion.
Thanks to everyone for your input. Will be a lot to go visit and look at next time I go visit my daughter in Phoenix . . .
- Paul North.
mvs (3-6):
Part A (of A-B)
Welcome back to forum contributing! And, thanks for your kind and encouraging words ...
Some comments (and previously shown photos) on three of the eight ACE future grade separation projects:
Hamilton Ave. in Pomona: I question whether an underpass is the right choice. Just think, mvs, how on earth could a complicated, two CP boxed, multi-turnout, four-track CP AL514 HAMILTON possibly be shoefly altered?
I hope they have figured that all out, but my gut feeling is that they haven't even thought of the shoefly complications at such a big CP! On the other side of the spectrum, a long shot one, that might be another reason for the missing signal bridge on the CP's west end, but who knows!
Fairway Drive in the City of Industry: In a cursory look at topographic maps, it looks like the tracks west to east will be 60 feet higher on the east end. Common sense dictates the west end should be farther away from Fairway Drive than the higher east end. But, ACE diagraming shows the same distance on each side of Fairway Drive.
From Fairway Drive looking east:
Two views looking west:
Continued in Part B
Part B (of A-B)
Of course, they can't go any farther west than the single-track bridge at the Nogales St. underpass.
By comparison, the Colton Flyover in Colton will have the short end on the west (higher elevation), the long end to the east (the lower area, by the Santa Ana River).
Lastly, Turnbull Canyon Rd. in the City of Industry on the LA&SL: An underpass is listed for this location. UP has recently erected new, not in service yet mast signals there.
The railroad does suchlike installations by grade crossings now for ease of access to the signals by maintainers. But, building an underpass there would most likely thwart UP's vision of easy access to the signals! Kind of an ironic twist of circumstances and timing!
Take care, mvs, and don't stay away from posting so long,
K. P. Harrier ... snip ... In perusing your post effort, I couldn't help but recall email information I got from the Alameda Corridor East people just a few days ago. It listed EIGHT projects, including the Hamilton Blvd. underpass in Pomona, CA, where the new, big, multi-track CP AL514 HAMILTON will be. An overpass over the four-tracks there would be simple, but an underpass will be a crammed-in shoefly a-go-go! That will be a show in itself! ... snip ...
It appears to be easier than previously thought. First, build the new CP - note that the new crossovers will be further from Hamilton Ave on either side. Next, remove the old CP Hamilton and Oak crossovers - this leaves a 'corridor' where a road bypass can be installed (assuming some property takes). Besides the wide ROW, 1st St is a possible RR shoofly path. Another plus is the new CP Spadra will allow LA sub traffic to use the Al sub temporarily during construction. The White Ave underpass allows for some road traffic diversion.
We'll see what happens when this lower priority project gets funded; UP has plenty of time to prepare.
My thoughts about the aforementioned grade crossings:
I mentioned a couple days ago that I had the MK video on the building of the Ash Fork bypass and would provide a link since the Facebook link has been removed. Unfortunately my link was also on Facebook and it is also listed as taken down. Sorry about that. When I watched it a year or so ago it was very good so I kept the link. Do not know where to find it now. If anyone finds a link to it please post it as I would like to see it again.
A Reply to Both MikeF90 and mvs (2-7/8):
The Hamilton Blvd. Underpass
Pomona, CA
In pondering the Alameda Corridor East's future Hamilton Blvd. UNDERPASS construction project and reviewing aerials, an underpass does appear viable, though tricky and rail operations altering.
Below is an aerial link: A single-track SP shoefly could be laid on the small room area on the north side (aerial top), with the LA&SL unaffected. A three-track underpass bridge could thus be built.
LA&SL / SP and Hamilton Blvd Aerial
Afterwards, the south LA&SL track could be jerry-rigged in the west (and the new track in the east put in service, and a one- or two-track bridge could be built on the present single-track (south) alignment.
A similar logistical effort was used on the recent LA&SL Magnolia Ave. underpass construction in Riverside. At CP C055 STREETER (background, eastward view) went from a single-track two-track junction TO a single-track single-track (left) setup with NO junction ...
... crossed Magnolia Ave., and swung back, but connected to Main 1 (center bottom track) ...
... crossed Brockton Ave. and alignment shifted to Main 2 (left track, westward view) ...
... to where the temporary CP C055 STREETER was (view looks east from Palm Ave.).
Perhaps any Hamilton Ave. Pomona shoefly would be similar, and utilize only a single-track.
In a few years (if it is even that soon), access for photographing the Hamilton Blvd. underpass construction may not be quite as accessible as the Magnolia Ave. project was in Riverside, but some Hamilton Blvd. area views might be able to be figured out.
ccltrains (2-8):
You may want to post your interest in seeing the video that you are searching for on the thread: "The Old, Abandoned AT&SF Transcon in Arizona (w/ Photos)," currently on page 1 of the "General Discussion" forum. That particular thread has people keyed to thinking about such, and the idea may ("may") jog someone's memory as to where it can be found. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the video myself.
Take care all,
The M-K video about the Ash Fork construction project is available on YouTube under the title, "A Better Way for the Santa Fe."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsllGIKfPn0
What are the frequencies on the Gila Sub? The ones I found online didn't do anything while I was out last time. Also, what would the lower signal head like this one http://andy9889.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2928554 display? Lunar? This is the final signal before the siding at Shawmut. I'll be on my way in about 72 hours, with an emphasis on the signals between Maricopa and Gila Bend (including the signal bridge at Mobile). I'm glad everyone is enjoying the pictures!
The New, Now In Service Color Light Signals on the Alternate Sunset Route
Ontario-Montclair, CA
Part I (of I-III)
On an outing Friday, March 9, 2012, the newly activated color light signals on the Los Angeles & Salt Lake (LA&SL) in the Ontario to Montclair, CA area was focused upon in the very limited time available to K.P. Below is a selection of the results.
Above, from Campus Ave. looking east at CP C039 BON VIEW: This is where two-tracks westward ends (towards the camera), and was the location where there was back to back CP signals with no space between them. The old east facing target signals are turned aside behind the nearest to the camera old color lights.
A westward view of the new east side westbound signal of CP C038 ONTARIO at Campus Ave., by the Ontario Signal Dept. (right fenced area):
On the above photo's bottom, note the tight clearance between the track (left) and the roadway (right). It would seem laying a second track through here would require a track alignment shift just in this area, or closing the road. There will be more on this in "Third Section" following Parts I-III.
Next is the diamond of the LA&SL single-track Main and the SP Ontario Branch, and a new CP box.
Continued in Part II
Part II (of I-III)
This is the two-bulb (lunar and red) SP Ontario Branch south signal. Note the north signal in the background, on the right.
The LA&SL west side eastbound new signal by the Sultana Ave. grade crossing:
Continued in Part III
Part III (of I-III)
Now, the westbound signal at the east end of the Montclair siding, at CP C036 MONTCLAIR:
The overpass in the background is Mountain Ave.
The east end eastbound cantilevered signals.
Finally, the west end signals, looking east from Monte Vista Ave. in Montclair, at CP C035 MONTCLAIR:
The west facing eastbound signal was lit because a local had just passed.
Of the whole western part of the Los Angeles Subdivision (Los Angeles-Riverside), this short section was the last remaining target signal holdout, but as seen in this three part post series, it is all color light signals now.
Continued in Second Section
Second Section
At the Ontario Signal Dept. on Campus Ave. there is a two-target mast lying down. Note that just below the upper head (right) there is a darker band on the silver mast paint.
Likely that laying down mast was the left sided two-target mast that was at the west end of the Montclair siding, at CP C035 MONTCLAIR. That mast did have a darker, upper dirty-like band when in service.
It also had a lower dark band too, just under the lower head by the horizontal connection of the ladder.
K.P. saw no other taken down old Ontario-Montclair signals at the Campus Ave. facility.
Continued in Third Section
Third Section
Two-tracks from the east become just single-track at CP C039 BON VIEW. It has been that way for nearly 20 years.
The above photo is a reshowing of the first photo in Part I of this series (the one with the turned aside target heads behind the color light heads). But WHY two-tracks to single-track at THIS particular spot?
UP apparently found itself in an awkward, impossible situation a couple of decades ago. If you view the below linked aerial (of the intersecting of State St., Campus Ave., Ontario Blvd., and the railroad tracks), the railroad doesn't seem to have enough room to lay a second-track! Oh, the joys of progress and community growth around the railroad!
The Impossible Situation Aerial
(If one mouse moves the aerial leftward, CP C039 BON VIEW comes into view on the right.)
Obviously, there are ways to lay a second-track, but UP will have to pay through the nose to do it (unless someone else is on the hook for authorizing such a situation, like possibly the city). It is known that UP has an intention of two-tracking this LA&SL section. Since the future big CP AL514 HAMILTON in Pomona already has a signal bridge with heads for that additional track, this odd location in Ontario is one to keep an eye on ...
ANDY117 What are the frequencies on the Gila Sub? The ones I found online didn't do anything while I was out last time. Also, what would the lower signal head like this one http://andy9889.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2928554 display? Lunar? This is the final signal before the siding at Shawmut. I'll be on my way in about 72 hours, with an emphasis on the signals between Maricopa and Gila Bend (including the signal bridge at Mobile). I'm glad everyone is enjoying the pictures!
Andy,
These should work for you. Have fun. Watch for critters.
Union Pacific 161.100 - Yuma Yard160.320 - Gila Sub (Yuma, AZ to Mobile, AZ)161.550 - Gila Sub (Mobile, AZ to 36th St.-Tucson, AZ)161.100 - Tucson Yard161.550 - Lordsburg Sub (36th St.-Tucson, AZ to Raso, AZ)160.230 - Lordsburg Sub (Raso, AZ to Lizard, NM)161.550 - Lordsburg Sub (Lizard, NM to Piedras St.-El Paso, TX)161.100 - El Paso Yard161.550 - Phoenix Sub (Picacho, AZ to Coolage, AZ)160.785 - Phoenix Sub (Coolage, AZ to Phoenix, AZ)161.100 - Phoenix Yard160.785 - Nogales Sub (Nogales, AZ to Tucson, AZ)160.230 - Clifton Sub (Lordsburg, NM to Clifton, NM)161.550 - Valentine Sub (Piedras St.-El Paso, TX to Belen, TX)160.320 - Valentine Sub (Belen, TX to Alpine Siding)160.320 - Carrizozo Sub (Vaughn, NM to Carrizozo, NM)161.550 - Carrizozo Sub (Carrizozo, NM to Tower 47 West)160.320 - Tucumcari Sub (Dalhart, TX to Vaughn, NM)160.800 - Toyah Sub (Sweetwater, TX to Pecos Siding)160.320 - Toyah Sub (Pecos Siding to Sierra Blanca)
Union Pacific
161.100 - Yuma Yard160.320 - Gila Sub (Yuma, AZ to Mobile, AZ)161.550 - Gila Sub (Mobile, AZ to 36th St.-Tucson, AZ)161.100 - Tucson Yard161.550 - Lordsburg Sub (36th St.-Tucson, AZ to Raso, AZ)160.230 - Lordsburg Sub (Raso, AZ to Lizard, NM)161.550 - Lordsburg Sub (Lizard, NM to Piedras St.-El Paso, TX)161.100 - El Paso Yard161.550 - Phoenix Sub (Picacho, AZ to Coolage, AZ)160.785 - Phoenix Sub (Coolage, AZ to Phoenix, AZ)161.100 - Phoenix Yard160.785 - Nogales Sub (Nogales, AZ to Tucson, AZ)160.230 - Clifton Sub (Lordsburg, NM to Clifton, NM)161.550 - Valentine Sub (Piedras St.-El Paso, TX to Belen, TX)160.320 - Valentine Sub (Belen, TX to Alpine Siding)160.320 - Carrizozo Sub (Vaughn, NM to Carrizozo, NM)161.550 - Carrizozo Sub (Carrizozo, NM to Tower 47 West)160.320 - Tucumcari Sub (Dalhart, TX to Vaughn, NM)160.800 - Toyah Sub (Sweetwater, TX to Pecos Siding)160.320 - Toyah Sub (Pecos Siding to Sierra Blanca)
John Timm
K.P.'s picture of the west facing signal at C035 Ontario shows another possible impediments to double tracking. A new yard lead may be required, and thus power poles and the building just left (northeast) of the roadway pillar will have to be moved!
Per the topo map view on Acme Mapper, the building in the northeast quadrant of the Campus Ave crossing has encroached for decades. It appears that there once was a spur serving this business and the south edge of the building reflects this. Unless an eventual grade separation requires the building to be 'modified', surely a section of State St will be closed.
Glad to see Mr. Timm is still around, hopefully his next report will have some new Picacho news.
An Odds and Ends Posting for Monday, March 12, 2012
CP's SP715 CACTUS and SP724 ARAZ
Just a little over a year ago (on March 8, 2011) the NEW two-tracks between Cactus and a new Araz, CA (near Yuma, AZ) was put in service, with the old Araz renamed Araz Jct.
The forum may be interested to know that the new CP's are now on aerials.
Aerial of the new CP SP715 CACTUS
Aerial of the new CP SP724 ARAZ
While each new CP has all four of the signals in place (one signal at both CP's is un-activated and heads turned aside), both CP's only has ONE of four switches in place, the others are absent.
To jog the forums memory of the CP's involved and the two-tracks between them ... three photos are shown ...
A westward view of CP SP715 CACTUS (top aerial):
Midway between CP's, at the second of three intermediates, by Ogiby Rd., looking westward: Ogilby Rd. was the grade crossing that was horrendously uneven (right), with roadway signs (not shown) warning motors to slow down. It is unknown if that unevenness has been corrected or not.
Looking east towards CP SP724 ARAZ (lower aerial):
As seen in the aerials and mentioned above, because each new CP has three switches MISSING, it could be months before two-tracking is extended outward from this two-track section.
ANDY117 (3-10):
Hi, Andy!
The photo Internet address you provided was NOT linked, but I've linked it below for the forum's ease of access:
http://andy9889.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2928554
I trust the Arizona photo will be available to the forum for many, many months to come.
Without personally seeing (either in person or in a photograph) what the particular intermediate signal's lower head displays, I cannot say for sure. But, my guess is the display is yellow over YELLOW in advance of a lineup to the Shawmut siding.
The Shawmut siding switches are known to be of the 30 M.P.H. type. Other suchlike arrangements that I've seen typically have yellow over yellow as the advance intermediate display.
By the way, that was a really nice picture you shot!
MikeF90 (3-11):
Yes, Mike, I've been wondering about that Mountain Ave. overpass pier too! Any new yard lead would have to be laid north (left) of the bridge support.
But, I am not sure what UP has in mind for the Montclair Yard. Back on August 24, 2009 I shot the below never before posted view. From RIGHT to left: The Main, the Montclair siding, and kind of a short lead with a derail track. The overpass pier probably aligns with the lower left electric utility pole.
You are definitely right, Mike, because if the siding becomes Main 1 (with Main 2 to its right, which is the current single-train Main), a new switching lead will have to be constructed. UP can currently get away with using the present siding as a lead extension, but if the siding becoming a full-fledged main the track wouldn't work doubling as a lead track.
On the other hand, switching operations MAY be done from the EAST end of the yard. There is a long lead eastward, away from the camera in the below photo looking east from atop the Mountain Ave. overpass.
Laying a second main here (above photo) would have a similar problem, but at least the railroad has more room to put in a new switching lead.
That extra room is seen in the below view, before the new signal bride's signals were activated. From left to right: The Main, the Montclair siding, and a weird switching lead arrangement with the Montclair Yard itself on the upper right.
As far as the confining Campus Ave. grade crossing by the Ontario Signal Dept., within the next couple of months I hope to get back there and take some ground photos of other very confining aspects of that grade crossing and possible options the railroad has in laying a second main. I suspect State St. will be able to stay open as a through street IF a bunch of hocus pocus magic is applied (read 'green money'), but who knows ...
Thanks for the info! Hopefully I can get a shot of that signal in the next couple days to answer the question. I've decided I'll cover the signals and upgrades between Gila Bend and Maricopa since that's closest to where I am. I'll put up the pictures on Thursday when I get home.
ANDY117 (3-12):
You are welcome ...
If you are going to be along Highway 238 regularly as you have said, it is only a matter of time before you see a train lined into the Shawmut siding and what the advance intermediate signal displays. Somehow, though, that 'time' has a tendency to linger on ...
I am not sure what UP is going to do after the current Arizona two-tracking from Toltec to Tucson is complete, but theoretically, UP should start westward from CP SP876 ESTRELLA ...
... and head to Gila Bend ...
... right in your neck of the woods! Or, start somewhere in the Gila Bend area and work eastward to Estrella. Time will tell, though, on that theoretical idea.
Take care,
PS: If you can and are willing, ANDY117, please contact me via email at kpharrier@yahoo.com.
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