Arizona Bridge Fire
In surfing the web, this contributor stumbled across a news item (with five photos) about a bridge fire in Maricopa, AZ in June. Much bridge timber was charred. It is unknown if the new, trackless concrete bridge next to it for the future second main was quickly pressed into service with a shoofly or not. If UP did, repairs to the burned bridge could be done at the railroad's leisure instead of in crisis mode. Long live the new concrete bridges!
For those interested, the news article about it is currently at the link below
http://maricopa360.com/?p=5134
K.P.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
K. P. HarrierArizona Bridge Fire
As usual, interesting photos. Looks like the firemen were soaking the bridge timbers with foam....
Quentin
cacole....The City of Willcox, Arizona Department of Transportation, and Union Pacific have been haggling over the crossings in downtown Willcox, with the city and state wanting the railroad to build an overpass or underpass, and that seems to be holding up construction. Main streets of Willcox run parallel to the railroad so close that there's no room for anything except grade crossings....
....The City of Willcox, Arizona Department of Transportation, and Union Pacific have been haggling over the crossings in downtown Willcox, with the city and state wanting the railroad to build an overpass or underpass, and that seems to be holding up construction. Main streets of Willcox run parallel to the railroad so close that there's no room for anything except grade crossings....
One solution I've seen is for an underpass below both the adjacent street(s) and railroad and using adjacent side streets for a partial clover leaf (eg, Lake & Lehigh along the Metra MDN in Glenview, IL). This requires a temporary shoo-fly and detours.
The problem usually is the impact of the approach ramps on properties along the road. If the City wants it in this case, I'm guessing the problem is "wanting the [UP] to build (pay for!) an overpass or underpass." This would be 20% of the total with Federal funding; but then the State may not want to appropriate its allocation for this project, leaving the railroad with 100% of the costs. Similarly, all the communities along the EJ&E want the CN to shoulder the entire cost of crossing improvements.
Update as of July 12, 2009
Pomona, CA
On the west side of Pomona, as part of the Alameda Corridor East project, the Southern Pacific (SP) route is being relocated to the Los Angeles & Salt Lake (LA&SL) right-of-way.
There has been no discernable activity around the Temple Ave. area on the far west side of this project.
However, much is happening around Humane Way.
Many boulders were being transported around
One very noisy piece of equipment slowly clanged toward the camera …
Then, did some work … And, then just waited …
It waited for some equipment moving around in the east, for a “meet” almost in railroad fashion. The confines are so narrow to work in that a “dispatcher” is almost needed to coordinate the construction movements …
In the downtown Pomona area … New track circuit boxes are being installed. Note the high LA&SL ballast right next to the foreground public roadway
‘Out of the Blue’ Highway Bridge
A new highway bridge is being constructed in Fontana, CA between Citrus and Sierra Avenues., just west of West Colton Yard. It is unknown if it resulted from President Obama’s economic stimulus package or not, but things are moving very quickly. As seen below, it does not appear that the bridge’s path was sufficiently cleared, but the bridge is progressing anyway. Even the advertising sign on the upper left will be blocked. The Sunset Route is by that advertising sign and Interstate 10.
It is wondered by this forumist if the new highway bridge will block the view of the new signal bridge west of Sierra Ave, a signal bridge that hasn’t even been put in service yet! The photo below was taken last year
On the morning of Tuesday, July 14, look for: “Examining a Mystery Track in Pomona, CA.”
MP57313 K. P. Harrier wrote: The following four photos were taken on March 20, 2008 from Temple Ave., in Pomona, CA. Hard to tell in the distance - are they now working on the realignment of the Sunset route through West Pomona? The new grade has been there for some time, but I have not been out to see if track construction has started.
K. P. Harrier wrote: The following four photos were taken on March 20, 2008 from Temple Ave., in Pomona, CA.
Hard to tell in the distance - are they now working on the realignment of the Sunset route through West Pomona? The new grade has been there for some time, but I have not been out to see if track construction has started.
The last time I was in Ontario in April nothing had yet been done to extend the double track thru that town. Also Trains Magazine reported that the double tracking project has been totally suspended due to the severe downturn in carloadings
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
Examining a Mystery Track in Pomona, CA
As of July 14, 2009:
Terminology: LA&SL = Los Angeles & Salt Lake, the original UP line in Southern California to Salt Lake City, UT; SP = Southern Pacific
A westward, previously posted LA&SL view of new grading: From Hamilton Ave. with a new, uninstalled turnout in the distance
A previous view, likewise from Hamilton Ave., looking eastward: The north side SP tracks are on the left, the south side LA&SL track is in the center. Note the rusted underpass guard railings in the way of the new LA&SL grading
Based on the above, apparently, in going eastward the second LA&SL track will shift to the north slightly, and go under the new signal bridge on an SP-side alignment
Looking westward with a telephoto shot from the Metrolink Downtown Pomona Station stop. A UP eastbound has transitioned from the LA&SL to the SP and is heading to Arizona and eastern parts. The signal bridge shows the future LA&SL track signal clearly on the SP side
But that second LA&SL track can’t go very much farther eastward on the SP side, as platforms are in the way. This view shows the Pomona Amtrak station (upper center). The only alternative is for the track in question to swing back to the LA&SL side. Notice that there is sufficient clearance for another track on the photo center left to bottom center. Clearing away a present side-walkway will be no problem. Since the Metrolink station stop is on the photo left bottom (south), WHY there is a handicap ramp ACROSS from the Amtrak station (north) is somewhat baffling … But there is a logical explanation …
Interestingly, there is an overhead walkway between the Amtrak side (north, left) and the Metrolink stop side (south, right). Again, another track would clearly fit on the LA&SL side.
But, the second track cannot go very much farther east, as the line is single-track over an underpass (railings on center right) as seen in this previously posted June view looking west toward the stations’ walkway overhead bridge
The emphasis in this post has been the LA&SL track that swings to the SP side that may return back to the LA&SL side. At this point in time, it is unknown if that track will be another mainline track, or merely a track Metrolink uses to park commuter trains overnight midpoint between Los Angeles and Riverside.
In light of that previously mentioned, baffling Metrolink handicapped ramp for wheelchair access to commuter trains on the SP side, this theorist is now inclined to believe the LATTER possibility above is the most likely eventuality, i.e. an overnight parking track for commuter trains.
It should be noted that PRESENTLY there is already a track connecting the LA&SL and SP a short distance to the east, and, in its present form, dates from soon after the UP-SP merger. Below is a previously posted westward view of that “SP side” connection (left). Note the two-track confinement of the underpass guard railings
The “LA&SL side” transition track (left), looking east
A northward cross section view: In light of that north side handicap ramp, Metrolink will likely use both the LA&SL and SP routes for a Pomona stop on its LA&SL Los Angeles-Riverside runs. Any commuter train having to transition between the routes on the east side will have to use the transition track between the mast signals with single-lamp top heads. The nearest track (leftmost signal) is the present Metrolink route and LA&SL line.
As stated previously under this topic, between Los Angeles and Pomona BOTH the LA&SL and SP routes are now considered the Sunset Route. However, many eastbound trains heading to Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and points beyond, are actually routed to the LA&SL track to Riverside and north to Colton, where they rejoin the Sunset Route and resume their Sunset routing to eastern points. The reverse happens too, but not nearly as often. Metrolink uses that LA&SL Riverside route. The actual Sunset Route from Pomona eastward is devoid of all commuter trains, but hosts Amtrak Nos. 1 & 2, the “Sunset Limited.”
It is hoped the above possible explanation for the mystery track in Pomona halfway makes sense.
Update as of Saturday, July 18, 2009
Palm Springs, CA
In a very high temperature of 110F, it was surprising to find UP track workers busily at work on Main 1. Looking railroad west: From left to right at [CP] WEST GARGET: The Garnet siding, Main 2, and Main 1.
On the background right, Main 1 ended until just a year ago. Now, two-tracks go east as far as the east switch of [CP] THERMAL. The foreground track is the Garnet Siding, used by Amtrak’s Sunset Limited, Nos. 1 & 2. The Palm Springs station stop is clearly market by bold yellow lines.
Looking west again: Adjacent Amtrak’s handicapped accessible ramp, UP forces recently built a nice grade crossing for its own use
About that Cypress Ave. Overpass, Fontana, CA
The bridge supports: The four north side supports, then the westbound I-10 lanes, the as yet only one center divider support (dark red), the eastbound lanes (blue pickup truck), the Sunset Route trackage.
From the same area as the above photo, looking eastward only two blocks is last year’s new high signal bridge. The Sierra Ave. overpass is in the background
Looking west from the Sierra Ave. overpass: Note that the Citrus Ave. overpass, only a mile to the west, goes line-of-sight behind the signal bridge’s ‘not put in service yet’ left lower head. The new Cypress Ave. Bridge will be between Sierra and Citrus Avenues, and a bridge support is on the far center right. Likely, though, that ‘trains can’t see the signal’ problem will be the railroad’s problem to deal with …
Is It a Good Sign among All the Economic Doom and Gloom?
The very long line of stored locomotives at West Colton Yard appears to have shrunk.
Before (April 15, 2009):
As of this date:
Some laid-off enginemen have reportedly even been called back to work!
Hopefully, two-tracking the Sunset Route can resume full force in the near future
K.P., thanks once more for the updates. You have the Sunset Route covered like a blanket!
A quick query about the track work at Garnet: looks like a surfacing gang at work there. Is there more going on, or is that all there was? Thanks in advance.
I took a trip from Tucson to Casa Grande Sunday, July 19th, using the old State Highway 79 as much as I could because it parallels the Union Pacific line.
No work was apparent anywhere. All of the Ames equipment staging areas were abandoned. Weeds are growing in the new right-of-way that was graded and graveled last winter.
Grade crossing signals have been moved and the crossings have had the new track added, but that's all that has been accomplished this year.
The Union Pacific seems to be concentrating all of their effort in California.
Too Hot of a Question to Handle!
Literally! This forumist was determined to photograph and understand what a new, but somewhat odd, Sunset Route signal displayed. But a 3 A.M. rising was not in the cards. Instead of an arrival in Indio at 5 A.M., it was more like 10 A.M., and my car thermometer already said it was 110 degrees out! At an ideal location (the Jackson Street Bridge, where the below photo was taken, looking eastbound), I waited … and waited. Nothing ever came. And it was just too hot to stay …
The new Sunset Route signals (at least in the Beaumont Hill area) use, in order of a train passing them, (1) a flashing yellow, then (2) yellow over yellow, and finally (3) a red over green for a crossover routing, assuming the route is clear for such.
This person has theorized some first masts (as in the above photo) may have a yellow over green indication (accounting for the lower single heads), but has not personally seen such. The second, more than two miles ahead, should be yellow over yellow, with the third red over green.
Could someone verify this? Or, at least explain to us what is actually displayed.
Thanks,
Pepper Ave., West Colton Yard, CA
Monday, July 13, looking east: Even more ballast had been laid. This forumist has seen over the years pink, white, light-gray, and tan ballast, but never chocolate brown
However, by Monday, July 20, the chocolate colored ballast had been smoothed out and mixed to a more traditional color and look
The signal masts in the first photo seem to have a single lower stop-take siding indicator head, possibly lunar, with manual switches which was pretty typical for SP.
Hello K.P.!
Long time lurker and admirer of your journalistic investigations and travel budget :-). Hopefully this post won't get mangled too much. After some online map 'surfing' I have some observations and questions:
- Based on your photos of the switch hardware west of Temple Ave, I believe that the track arrangement will look like this:
---\
\
\ /-- (future fourth MT) -----------
--+------+------ Alhambra Sub (wood ties) -----
\ /
------------+--+-------- LA Sub main 1 (concrete ties)-
------------------------ LA Sub main 2 ----------------
The fourth track was funded separately from the original project and likely the additional turnouts and signal heads will show up later.
- The 2.3 miles of the new fourth MT (Alhambra Sub main 1) will be an isolated passing track until the UP double tracking project reaches Pomona; it was funded before the economy downturn and isn't a priority right now. Of course, UP isn't about to turn down government $$$$ to built it.
- Due to inaccessibility by public roads we haven't seen any pics of the impressive Elephant Hill cut work between Hwy 57 and Humane Way.
The contractor has scraped enough earth away for two tracks south of the existing LA Sub mains; some track shifting will have to take place here.
UPDATE - I may have to retract partially this last sentence. Upon future review of bing.com the bridge extensions may be the usual 'one on each side' configuration.
- I agree that CP Roselawn is on borrowed time; the control point west of Temple will serve the same purpose of a crossover betwen the two subs. However, is a new full crossover on the 'new' LA sub mains between CP Grand and the Pomona Metrolink station in the works (Humane Way-CP Oak)?
- CP Oak may remain 'short' term to route LA sub main #1 to its existing route (ex-SP ROW). A new fourth track in the Pomona station area requires more bridges at Towne Ave, over the flood control channels east of East End Ave and a full crossover east of the station (CP Antonio upgrade?) so I don't expect the Mystery Track to be completed any time soon. FYI I haven't heard of any plan for a Metrolink set out track here, but I could be wrong.
- Your photos of the Pomona station area show how badly Metrolink and UP screwed up from a safety perspective. Walking across one (or in the future, two) active LA Sub mains is INSANE. Or is there now a pedestrian underpass? If not, Metrolink has at least two options - close the platform between the mains or fund a new ramp coming down from the pedestrian overpass.
- The new (south) LA Sub main #2 looks to be in place all the way from the diversion to CP Oak. Any speculation on when it will be cut in?
I hope this stimulates ideas for your future photographic efforts. TIA!
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
billio (7-19):
After being ‘roasted’ alive in Indio, in heading homeward, I just happened to stop by the Palm Springs Amtrak station where the track maintenance work was being performed. The distinct impression was that only in the general vicinity of the Amtrak stop was where equipment was active. I though single-tracking 6.5 miles between [CP] West Palm Springs and [CP] GARNET was sufficient, hence, I did NOT return east a few miles to check that area out. I just could not believe UP would single-track 15 miles between [CP] WEST PALM SPRINGS and [CP] RIMLON.
In watching the moving track equipment, I had to marvel. All their windows were closed! Workers were in total air conditioned comfort! They must have said to themselves: “Look at that poor fool with a camera just roasting on the Amtrak platform!” They probably were right!
cacole (7-20):
Thanks for your report. To know that weeds are now growing in the new grading is depressing, but that is reality!
Next time you take a Tucson to Casa Grande journey, I suggest going a little farther, to Maricopa. That is where all the new track construction action was at the end of May when I visited Arizona.
Locking Horns -- The Colton Flyover Controversy
Late last year, the press related that a controversy existed between Burlington Northern Santa Fe (BNSF) and Union Pacific (UP) pertaining to the proposed Colton Flyover, but this forumist knows of no specific published details about the controversy.
However, the following may or may not be the problem, and is related only as an opinion. But, just reason things out …
In the 1990’s, Santa Fe Railway and Burlington Northern Railroad merged, resulting in today’s BNSF Railway. It basically was an end-to-end merger. In response, Union Pacific gobbled up Southern Pacific, with the surviving name publically being Union Pacific. It was more or less a parallel merger, and such type mergers are often fraught with controversies.
Enter the Colton Flyover issue. In the distant past, let’s say the then crossing users, (1) Atchison Topeka & Santa Fe (AT&SF), (2) Southern Pacific (SP), and (3) UP, shared equally the costs of the Colton diamond arrangement (i.e., by thirds). However, theoretically, with the two great mergers mentioned above, one party could want the other party’s share to rise from 33% to 50%, while theirs decline from a combined 66% to 50%. The other party obviously would desire the old thirds agreement to stay in place. The railroads may have never settled the issue, but tolerated old agreements because the accumulative, many diamond crossings over both systems probably evened things out.
But, with the proposed Colton Flyover, we are talking about $200 million for bridging over just one present crossing location! California voter initiative money would pay for nearly half the flyover, say $100 million for simplicity’s sake. The two railroads would fork in about $50 million combined, and the remaining $50 million would come from unclear sources.
A third of $50 million compared to a half is big money! Two thirds of $50 million is even bigger money. And, without a formal, SPECIFIC agreement in advance, what division is proper, equitable, and correct? Should SOMEONE ELSE’S merger cause your share of costs to increase?
Polarized sides so often never come to agreement, and the Colton Flyover may very well become a victim of this. The State of California is so broke that it probably can’t contribute any further funds, and it is unknown if the Obama administration would ever intercede with full flyover funding in the name of national security and the continued welfare of the Nation (read Obama’s economic stimulus money). If the flyover was built somehow, reoccurring maintenance costs thereafter would likely be so small as to not warrant the time to argue over the matter. In the absence of a miracle, BNSF could just fill the current Cajon Pass to Riverside triple-track gap that exists for about three-miles between just north of the would-be flyover to Highgrove that would have been filled anyway after the flyover was hypothetically built. Even without the flyover, that would allow three trains to cross the UP Sunset Route at one time. BNSF moving three trains at once would be better than only being able to move two, and would work toward a freer flow Colton Crossing. The flipside to that is that the unyielding BNSF might see a freer flow Colton Crossing as a reward to UP for UP’s own unyieldingness, so it might just leave that 3-mile gap as two-tracks. Remember, however, all this is only conjectural without actual statements from the railroads themselves, but the issues and logic presented herein is believed to be meritorious.
In some ways, the problem can be traced all the way back to Abraham Lincoln’s day and the first transcontinental railroad. If TWO railroads (a good idea in its time) hadn’t been mandated back then, we would probably not have today’s impossible Colton Flyover dilemma.
The whole thing is reminiscent of 1882, when the SAME site saw Southern Pacific (a predecessor to the current UP) park railcars over a would-be crossing by California Southern (a Santa Fe predecessor), and stationed armed guards thereat. That standoff was only overcome by law enforcement action that allowed CS to finally lay a diamond for crossing the SP. The present standoff, if we have correctly identified the issue, likewise may be won ultimate by the California Southern successor, BNSF Railway, based on a never superseded PREVIOUS agreement, UNLESS that previous agreement had been superseded by mutual agreement. But, we may never know, because it seems neither railroad is legally obligated to even build a flyover! But, it is very difficult to imagine how anyone could just walk away from $97 million offered to them!_____
Dated June 6, 2009, during the signal transition phase, this eastward facing photo looks toward Union Pacific’s Beaumont Hill in the distant background. The cross track is BNSF’s Transcon, with the Los Angeles routing toward the right. The UP vertical center LEFT track at the crossing is the historic SP track mentioned in the text above. In 1882, that alignment was straighter. The TOP, DARK right track, near where it bends, is the general site of a horrendous 1907 westbound passenger train wreck that incurred many fatalities. Will the Colton Flyover effort end up wrecked too?_____
I am the photographer that shot those shots.
It was a typical hot day in Maricopa, Az, over 100. The fire efforts were hidered by a lack of water.
The new bridge is not in service yet. The area is being set up for double tracking. This area is used by UP as well as Amtrak.
The bridge was OKed for service before midnight that night.
My entire shoot is on my site. http://85239photography.smugmug.com/gallery/8401105_wCS2i#553339740_4oPmQ
Howard WaGGner 85239 Photography
K. P. HarrierWill the Colton Flyover effort end up wrecked too?
Wrecked, I dunno. Be sure to check out your taxpayer dollars in action (sigh) at the project website here. Looks like they have three options still on the table, not including 'do nothing'.
K.P., stay cool this weekend. Glad to see that you're back in good health.
For what it's worth, I've seen reports that Estrella -- Maricopa East has now been double tracked. Confirmation would be appreciated. Whether this double tracking includes the scene of the fire is unknown, since I have no easy way to get out there and eyeball it firsthand.
K. P. HarrierThe whole thing is reminiscent of 1882, when the SAME site saw Southern Pacific (a predecessor to the current UP) park railcars over a would-be crossing by California Southern (a Santa Fe predecessor), and stationed armed guards thereat. That standoff was only overcome by law enforcement action that allowed CS to finally lay a diamond for crossing the SP. The present standoff, if we have correctly identified the issue, likewise may be won ultimate by the California Southern successor, BNSF Railway, based on a never superseded PREVIOUS agreement, UNLESS that previous agreement had been superseded by mutual agreement. But, we may never know, because it seems neither railroad is legally obligated to even build a flyover! But, it is very difficult to imagine how anyone could just walk away from $97 million offered to them!
Question. Is this crossing used by Metrolink? If so why can't US stimulus money make up the difference? Any thoughts?
The area of the fire was between Maricopa and Casa Grande. No, it has not been double tracked yet. The bridges are in place, but the physical rails have not been layed, at least in that area. I am unsure if track has been layed closer to Casa Grande. I heve not driven out that was in a while.
Here is a shot of the construction in Maricopa.
This was shot a few weeks back. The shot is facing east looking at 347 and the rail crossing.
There are still a few logisitic issues regarding the timing of construction at this crossing. it will need to be heavily coordinated as this is the main route through maricopa and will affect all traffic, including police fire and abulance trafic.
I don't have a set date yet for this portion of the double track operation here.
Photo by Howard WaGGner (c) 85239 Photography
MikeF90 (7-22):
Thanks for your kind words.
Your post and its inquiries were such a mouthful and so deep in depth that it took me several days to figure everything out … But, the challenge was fun and rewarding … Thanks!
Your conjectured track diagram was great! I correlated it to the previously posted photo below:
For lack of a simpler way to quickly identify the tracks and signals on the above westward looking photo, a left to right “A” to “D” approach is used herein. I would encourage you to COMPARE the lower “B” signal head to the top “C” head vs. the lower “C” head compared to the top “B” head …
A backside view of the above: “A” is on the right, “D” is on the left
While we are discussing that east signal bridge west of Temple Ave., I’ve concluded that the “missing” TWO-bulb lower “A” head is probably currently being used on an old mast in the downtown Pomona area, SUCH AS on the background right of center mast below (but not necessarily that particular lower head, though it could be)
You asked about a possible crossover(s) BETWEEN Humane Way and [CP] OAK. I don’t anticipate any.
Its funny YOU brought up Elephant Hill, the south side hill between the 57 Freeway and Humane Way. Just a few weeks ago while in that area I was pondering how nice it would be get some close-up photos of the Elephant Hill area track construction, but I was focused on other things at the time. There are some “tricks” of the photographic trade that could possibly be employed to pull off obtaining such hard to get photos on private property. When I have more time, I might just try some of those tricks …
Concerning both the (1) [CP] OAK / [CP] HAMILTON and (2) [CP] RESERVOIR / [CP] WO TOWER (by San Antonio Ave.) areas: I’m inclined to believe that there will be only TWO great CP’s in the downtown Pomona area, and NOT six CP’s as presently. Each new CP will encompass BOTH the SP and LA&SL sides, and probably start eastwardly in the present [CP] OAK area.
The below previously shown eastward dawn photo shows [CP] ROSELAWN in the distance from the Highway 71 overpass, taken a few months ago. As stated previously, the CP probably is on borrowed time, as it would not fall within the limits suggested one paragraph above. The rightmost, not-in-service yet, new track appears to go past [CP] ROSELAWN and curve around to the right in the distance.
The Pomona Metrolink station area is not as bad as it first appears. This forumist believes the present south side commuter stop will continue to be the PRIMARY stop (see the bottom left of the previously posted photo below). Sometime in the future, I believe that the presently unlade “mystery” track will be for initiating overnight parking of commuter trains. The north side stop might be available for future Metrolink “meets.” As an example, an eastbound Metrolink could stop on the north side, load and unload passengers, and depart eastwardly. It would get a red signal at the present [CP] RESEVOIR / [CP] WO TOWER area. A westbound Metrolink would then pass, and stop at the south side station stop. It should be noted that the north platform would now be clear of patrons, closed, and gate to it locked. The eastbound train would get a red over green, cross back over to the LA&SL side, and head east to Riverside. The westbound Metrolink, after the station stop, would then head west to Los Angeles. And, everything would be cool … As I vaguely recall, there is an underpass walkway too in addition to the overpass walkway, but neither really has a significant bearing on the above description in this paragraph.
You asked about the new south side Los Angeles Sub main and when it might be “cut in.” The only timing aspects I know about are that (1) the whole project should be completed by the end of fall 2009, and (2) for that track to be put in service the missing signal head mentioned above would need to be found. If it is in fact presently in use in downtown Pomona somewhere, to free up the head new track work there would have to be completed and put in service first.
It is hoped all this satisfactorily addresses your inquiries.
Take care,
blue streak 1 Question. Is this crossing used by Metrolink? If so why can't US stimulus money make up the difference? Any thoughts?
Only four Metrolink trains use the crossing on weekdays, although more slots will be needed when their new layover facility is built. IMO neither Metrolink nor Amtrak has enough 'skin' in the game to justify the public dollars to be spent.
OTOH the economically challenged and environmentally impacted city of Colton won't be happy without an undercrossing. They even published a rebuttal to a typically short sided op-ed piece in the San Bernardino Sun. I hope they get their wish!
Hi K.P, thanks for your lengthy reply. I just reviewed your post a few pages ago and noticed a few things more.
- It's not clear to me how the new signal bridges next to Humane Way and Park Ave. will be used, we'll have to wait and see. BTW how do you know 'which way' the bridge is 'facing' when all heads are turned sideways?
- The new turnout positioned near CP Oak could allow the new LA sub main to be laid and connected with provision for extending a new main east. Another pic showed the 'pocket' track (near the new Park Ave signal bridge) to be disconnected, presumably with the same purpose. IMO ties and rails may be positioned east of CP Oak but nothing else will happen soon (not part of the ACE fourth main miniproject).
Possible track layout near CP Oak:
/--- existing LA sub #1 --
- Existing LA sub main --/--/--- future new main -------
- New LA sub main -----/------- existing LA sub #2 -----
Hmmm, we're missing a couple of turnouts.....
- The downtown Pomona station has handicapped ramps on the south platform and the north side of the middle platform. A new LA sub main will require a new ramp on the south side of the middle platform, no big deal. I should be in the area next month to check out the 'possible' pedestrian undercrossing; if it doesn't exist this area is a tragedy and a lawsuit still waiting to happen.
- We'll have to agree to disagree on the Metrolink 'layover' track. I have not heard of any new service that would require this. Unless it was a mid-day only track it would require some Serious security to prevent tagging.
MikeF90...OTOH the economically challenged and environmentally impacted city of Colton won't be happy without an undercrossing. They even published a rebuttal to a typically short sided op-ed piece in the San Bernardino Sun: http://www.ci.colton.ca.us/Documents/CC/Press/Bridge%20Over%20Troubled%20Waters%20Response_FINAL.pdf I hope they get their wish!
...OTOH the economically challenged and environmentally impacted city of Colton won't be happy without an undercrossing. They even published a rebuttal to a typically short sided op-ed piece in the San Bernardino Sun: http://www.ci.colton.ca.us/Documents/CC/Press/Bridge%20Over%20Troubled%20Waters%20Response_FINAL.pdf I hope they get their wish!
The Colton proposal reminds me of the CTA extension to River Road before going all the way to O'Hare. A much more expensive subway under I-90 at East River Rd was proposed, including temporary detour lanes. This was proposed initially as a worst case scenario for estimating costs(?) according to the City's engineer. By the time this got to public hearings after final engineering, the claim was that an elevated viaduct and trains, none of which having visible collision damage as do many autos and trucks, would be an eyesore that could be avoided with the more costly tunnel.
If you even have time to kill waiting for a connection at O'Hare, take the Blue Line two stops east to the Cumberland station just east of the tunnel. If you have more time, go farther east to Jefferson Park or all the way downtown. You can see stations from every era if you go downtown. Ride the Airport Transit System and consider what rebuilt L stations should look like in the future IMHO. Change a few dimensions and Metrolink stations could be rebuilt too - with air-conditioning for the 110-degree days!
Reply Catch-Ups
HarveyK400 (7-21):
That was an interesting idea about "take siding" indications.
There are three signal locations in the Indio area that I've seen where sort of DUPLICATING lower single-lamp heads are used. Two of those locations have NO switches associated with them. On my last visit to Indio, I was more focused on staying cool in the 110 degree heat than documenting those signals. Hopefully, one of these days I'll get a real early morning start, when it is cool, and document those switchless lower heads ...
Mallardisme (7-23):
My guess is you were attracted to the forum because of so many hits from the forum to your great bridge fire photos on the Internet ...
Whether or not that is so, welcome to the forum!
Billio (7-24):
Yes, I too would love to see a photo(s) of the new interlocking signals at Highway 347 in Maricopa
Anybody out there with a digital camera?
Blue Streak 1 (7-25):
Metrolink DOES use the crossing, though not much. It is over the BNSF, not the UP.
Anything short of Uncle Sam totally funding the Colton Flyover, it seems that with all other options someone will cry foul!
Desertdog (7-25):
Great update! Where was your camera?
I am curious what is taking place at the new CP SP917 on the west side of Casa Grande. The new control point box there should be in place by now. You may recall, I theorized previously that only holding signals would be placed there.
You may recall, too, that I thought a double-crossover would be put in around Ethington Rd. by M.P. 915. I no longer think that is viable, because in studying aerials, it looks like there is a wide land area graded about two miles to the west, probably around M.P. 913. The new [CP] EAST MARICOPA likewise has such a wider area graded in aerials.
MikeF90 (7-26):
Let us know what you uncover on your Pomona visit in the future.
You could very well be right in your theories as opposed to my theories. The whole present thing around the Metrolink station stop doesn't quite make sense, at least to me. When you visit Pomona, maybe you will see something that I didn't catch. Much of the Los Angeles-Riverside LA&SL line is two-tracked now, with only small gaps here and there. Many Sunset Route through-trains are rerouted to the LA&SL between Pomona, Riverside, and Colton. You may recall that at least one underpass in Pomona would need to be bridged if the mystery Pomona track continued eastward over one of those single-track gaps. Railroad west of Cajon Pass, BNSF found a somewhat novel way to bridge over such an opening. Maybe that could be done in Pomona. Hopefully, I will be able to provide a photo of what BNSF did sometime in the future ...
You asked about the new signal bridge in Pomona and how one could tell which way the not-in-service yet signal heads would eventually face. Below is an extreme blowup of the signal bridge in downtown Pomona. There is a railing opening in the direction that the head will face, east, or toward the photo right ... But, when one first sees the signal bridge in person, it is overwhelming ... until one sees such finer details as the railing opening
About the two-track grading width around Elephant Hill in Pomona ... Some grading here and there is for access roads. In the photo below, taken in April 2008 last year by Rio Bravo Road west of Maricopa, AZ, note the wide right-of-way width and the far left culvert. When I was there a few months ago, I don't recall a three-track grade crossing. So, the extra wide culvert bridge was likely for an access road in addition to the two-tracks. But yet, some culvert bridges were only wide enough for two-tracks and NOT an access road. So, what you saw in the Elephant Hill area may have been for a fourth track AND an access road, but I don't know.
Take care, everyone.
K.P.,
My camera stayed safely in the car, as did I. We were chased by a monsoon storm all the way back from Tucson.
On a drier, cooler day I will make my way back down to Maricopa / Casa Grande to take a look at CP SP917 and review the situation at Ethington Rd.
Keep the California updates coming. I railfan at Beaumont Hill and the Palm Springs area fairly often. West Colton is usually just a "drive by" because of traffic.
Cheers,
John Timm
"Great update! Where was your camera?
You may recall, too, that I thought a double-crossover would be put in around Ethington Rd. by M.P. 915. I no longer think that is viable, because in studying aerials, it looks like there is a wide land area graded about two miles to the west, probably around M.P. 913. The new [CP] EAST MARICOPA likewise has such a wider area graded in aerials."
Bad Omen for Railfans
Toward the turn of the millennium, Union Pacific began upgrading the signals and relocating crossovers on the already two-tracked west slope of Beaumont Hill (in California); and thereafter started laying a second main eastward down the east slope to Indio. With the recent upgrading at West Colton Yard, the Sunset Route is now two-tracks from [CP] SIERRA in Fontana to the east switch THERMAL (east of Indio). Railfans that are checking all this out may be surprised at what they NOW encounter in San Timoteo Canyon on the west slope of Beaumont Hill. While it was briefly mentioned previously in this topic, the following will elaborate and put a “bad omen” twist to a great area.
The once quiet and lonely San Timoteo Canyon Road west of downtown Beaumont has changed dramatically with the proliferation of new housing. The most alarming is no parking signs and the bike paths on the roadway. The below east facing photo was taken in the vicinity of M.P. 560.
The new divided four-lane highway / bike paths is a beautify highway with residences looking down onto the railroad. But, railbuffs now cannot just park and take photos of passing trains.
The old HINDA crossovers were just beyond the distant curve in the tracks. The ‘not feasible to park’ continues in the distance. Note the heat distorted view of the right telephone pole
ONLY the north side of San Timoteo Canyon Road has a sidewalk! But, such is only good for joggers and distance walkers as there still is no parking permitted
Thus, camera toting railfans are in for a surprise if they have not been to or seen San Timoteo Canyon Road of late.
Union Pacific reportedly has had pilferage problems from thieves raiding stopped trains in this area. Special agents have, in the past, even harassed railfans that parked trackside on the old two lane road, which is an ironic twist because railfans are the very ones most likely to recognize and quickly report thievery! It is unknown if the railroad had input or donated money toward the present roadway design, but things are definitely not the same for railfans.
I guess one solution may be to take along a bike if you need to park some distance away.
I just returned from a rail fanning tirip to SoCal. I was in Ontario CA & drove as far west as Mountain Ave & between there Vineyard St (Ontario Airport) there was no evidence of any double tracking to be done. There was no grading going on nor did I see any survey stacks showing where the grading should be done. In driving from Ontario to Colton where ever you can see the tracks from I10 I also saw no double tracking taking place
BTW they are rebuilding the double diamond @ Colton. They are erecting it from scratch as there are pieces of the new diamond waiting to be put together on the Valley Blvd side.
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