GG1

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd
[3. Except for the Metroliner service, 100 mph for a GG1 was pretty rare. In fact, the speed limit for them on the NEC was only 80. Fastest I ever clocked one was in the low 90s thru Northeast Philly on a NY-PHL clocker.

Keeping the GG1s below 100 was deliberate on the part of the Pennsy. PRR did some testing (they seem to have tested everything) and had a GG1 with 100 mph gearing and another with 90 mph gearing try to keep the same schedule from DC to NY. They found to everyone's surprise that the 90 mph geared locomotive could actually keep a faster schedule. This was due to the numerous station stops and many restricted speed curves on the corridor. The 90 mph geared GG1 could out accelerate its counterpart pulling an identical train.

[tree68]

I've always associated pure numbers with steam - ie, a 4-4-4-4 will be steam, with nothing denoting powered axles except convention (ie, usually the first and last are not powered, but not always.) On the other hand, letters denote locos with electric propulsion (be they diesel-electric or electric), with any numbers denoting unpowered trucks. That makes it a 4-B-B-4. Then there are those like the U50B, denoted as B-B+B-B, all axles powered. I have seen the Bo-Bo type notation as well, but it's not usually seen in the US trade or model press.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainheartedguy

What? no comment on my pic?

[soapbox][tup][tup][tup][tup][:-^][wow]

Good to see one of the old girls again. ...

Thank you Kenneo

[marxalot]

Hey, thanks for all the good info. I'm looking at that New Brunswick
Railroad Museum site for the GG1 forum. Thanks again. Somehow
Trains has an old e-mail address for me and I never did receive a
notification at my more active address. I thought I HAD asked the
ultimate dumb question![:D]

[jeremygharrison]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Oliver Trzok

QUOTE: Originally posted by 440cuin

That "European" system is a better system then ours, it defines more accurately, I forget what it is called. I believe even more accurate is a GG1 is 2'C-C2' or am I talking about another system all together? But even in parts of Europe they use other even more wierd systems. (did every factory use its own system??) The Whyte system realy only works on conventional steam engines. A challenger is not the same as a GG1 but I have to look it up to see the difference. The second set of drivers is rigid with the frame and boiler, not a seperate truck.

[#dots] (I wanted to put the one with the sign "off topic" here, but it's frowning, and I don't think there's anything here to frown about...)

Here in Europe the system is a little more elaborate. And I'm definitely not the person who knows it all, but I know some basics.
A GP40 for instance would be a Bo'-Bo' (the little o's should actually be raised a little, to the level of the apostroph, but I don't know how to do that on the keyboard) - meaning two two-axle trucks (B+B), and the little "o" meaning that each axle has its separate traction motor. Some (majority of?) older French electrics (not sure about the diesels) had one traction motor per truck, so a four-axle two-truck locomotive would be designated B'-B'.
I'm not sure about the diesel-hydraulics, but logically they'd also be B'-B', C'-C' etc. And I think the apostroph stands for a truck (steam engines too) that rotates/swiwels in relation to the rest of the locomotive.
So a Pacific type steamer (4-6-0) would be 2'-C-1', but I don't know abot the Challenger (4-6-6-4) - is it a 2'-C'-C-2' or a 2'-C-C-2'?

[zzz], you say? I can't blame you.

Regards,
Oliver

The 'standard' European system (started, I believe, in Germany, now generally adopted) isn't perfectly standard... but the basics are - it's based on axles, non powered indicated by numbers, powered axles by letters (upper case), with apostrophes to designate trucks (i.e. axles not in the main frame), a lower case 'o' to indicate seperately driven, parentheses (i.e. '(' & ')' to group axles in a truck together, and no hyphens. Less standard elements are underscoring to indicate powered axles in seperate frames mechanically coupled together (if you can follow that), and a plus sign '+' to indicate seperate vehicles (permanently coupled - most often used for railcar sets).
And sometimes extra letters (and numbers) are tacked on the end to let you specify things like whether it's a four cylinder compound superheated rack tank, or a diesel electric with AC/DC transmision - but that's going a bit too far [;)]

Exact positioning of apostrophes and 'o's is one of the variations...

So, to give some examples:
B - basic four wheel loco (0-4-0 in Whyte)
2'C 1' - a normal Pacific (4-6-2)
2' 2' - a standard car on two four wheel trucks
Bo' Bo' and Co' Co' are the normal American diesels (EMD GPs and SDs, etc.), but an EMD 'E' type is (A1A)'(A1A)' - and a three section FT 'locomotive' is a Bo'Bo' + Bo'Bo' + Bo'Bo'

So a Challenger is a (2' C)' C 2' and a GG1 (2' C)' (C 2')' - if I understand them correctly.

And a three truck Shay B'B'B' (assuming four wheel trucks)

So it's capable of describing pretty well anything, once you get used to it..

But as 440cuin stated, in past times othe systems were used, varying between countries - the most common being 'Whyte but counting axles', and just giving numbers of powered and total axles.

Jeremy

[Rick Gates]

All of the previous reasons I have read have merritt. Rear pans were raised ( as far as us hogheads were concerned) because that was the order of the RR. For example: page 13 of the CT290 Electrical Operating Instructions Manual for the Pnennsyvania RR, under the heading of Pantographs states: "3. Under normal operation of single unit engines, rear pantograph shall be up on each engine except class E-44, which must have the leading pantograph up. Adjacent pantographs of coupled engines should not be up when it can be avoided. The number of electrical engines coupled and in service will be governed as follows: 2-4 engines 0 restrictions--5 50mph---6 not exceed 35mph ----over 6 are prohibited." Only a double pantograph train order may be issued in time of sleet or freezing rain. I miss those drafty G-s!

[daveklepper]

I think they had more than one of the ex-GN units. If I remember correctly (from an old issue of TRAINS, of course), they bought the entire ex-Great Northern fleet! Not that all were ever put into service, and at least one was held as a source of spare parts. But they did have more than one in service, at least initially, and they were only used as helpers if my memory is correct. I think they had sleeve bearings, not roller bearings. Dave Klepper

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

I think they had more than one of the ex-GN units. If I remember correctly (from an old issue of TRAINS, of course), they bought the entire ex-Great Northern fleet! Not that all were ever put into service, and at least one was held as a source of spare parts. But they did have more than one in service, at least initially, and they were only used as helpers if my memory is correct. I think they had sleeve bearings, not roller bearings. Dave Klepper

One went to the UP for its coal turbin project. The number 5018 wants to come to mind, but I certainly am not going to bet on that being correct.

[daveklepper]

There was more than one purchased . Dave Klepper

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

PRR did not buy the entire ex-GN fleet. They purchased only eight box-cabs (one for spare parts) which became the FF-2's. One of the W-1's went to GE for the failed coal-fired gas-turbine experiment and everything else was scrapped.

[Anonymous]

got some pic of a PRR GG1 in Dallas tx RR mueseum also
UP 4018 BIGBOY[8D][8D][8D]

[Supermicha]

Its all right. The most common reason is that of dammage. In germany, engines can drive with the front panto up when:

- two engines are used, so that the wire will not become so hot (the second engine must have up its rear panto)
- the car after the engines has loaded automobiles or petrochemical products on which sparks from the panto can make dammage or fire.

QUOTE: heard another rule about the pentograph, that during freezing rain and sleet both graphs must be up so the leading one cleans the wire.

Also that is (or was) right. Older engines, which have pantos with single contact shoes could have problems with getting enough constant voltage when the wire is iced. So all two pantos must be lift up, to warrant a good electrical pickup.modern engines with double, triple or quad contact shoes does not need that.

Its nice to see an electric engine during night, when the wire is iced and the sparks make the night to day.

Something about the wheel arrangement in europe:

1 - non driven axle in the main frame
1` - non driven axle in a seperate frame (single axle truck)
2 - two non driven axles in the main frame
2` - two non driven axles in a seperate frame (seperate truck)
A - one driven axle in the main frame
B - two connected driven axles in the main frame
A´ - a driven axle in a seperate frame or truck
B´ - two connected driven axles in a seperate frame or truck
Bo - two single driven (not connected) wheels in the same frame or truck

A Challenger is a 2´ C´ C´ 2´ engine

A GG1 is a 2´ Co Co 2´engine

The DD40AX is a Do Do engine and so on

And, at last, a hard example:

A kind of german mallard engines had the wheel arrangment B´ B n 4 v

B´ - the first two wheels are driven but in a seperate truck
B - the other two wheels are in the main frame
n - (Naßdampf) wet steam engine
4 - 4 cylinders
v - (Verbundtriebwerk) connected engine (that means the 4 cylinders are connected)


Micha