Amtrak never on time

[Anonymous]

I ride The Lake Shore Limited 4-6 times a year from NYC to Chicago. Recently ( last three months) the trains are usually 2 to 8 hours late. This is wrecking my business. Anyone know what gives?

[Anonymous]

From what I gathered while I was working for the UP, The dispatchers would hold AMTRAK in order to try and get their trains back on schedule. I've seen AMTRAK #'s 5 & 6 be anywhere from 2 to 10 hrs. late on a daily basis.

[Anonymous]

Well lets look at this when I was on the COAST STARLIGHT thisn summer we were arrived 45 Minites late in to PORTLAND THANKS TO UTTERLY PATHETIC and COMPANY but with BNSF we got in to SEATTLE ONTIME and their always late

[jchnhtfd]

CSX has been having some trouble running anything on time on the water level route; not just sure why. Not just Amtrak, but their freights, too. At least part of the time this winter they've been having some bad problems with switches freezing up. Not an excuse for CSX -- just a commentary. Some of the stuff coming through is right on the money, though.

[Anonymous]

CSX is having both track problems and an acute motive power shortage in that area. Cause unknown...

LC

[Anonymous]

What bothers me most is the eastbound originates in Chicago and that train is ALWAYS 2 to 5 hours late out of the station. It's inexcusable.

[UPTRAIN]

The Texas Eagle is usually about 1 to 3 hours late but has sped up because the speed has been raised to 40 mph through here, north of here between us and St. Louis the track had 28 speed restrictions, most of 15 mph, and as you can tell this slowed it down.......a lot!!!!

[Anonymous]

Im an Engineer for Amtrak and the main things that give us problems are the host railroads and track repairs. The longest time I've stayed in the same spot on my P-42, was when I entered NS territory. They kept me in Altoona for 6 hours. Now thats inexcusable. Some times we have problems with the locomotives but thats a different story.


Amtrak Mark

[Anonymous]

I ride Amtrak from St. Louis to Chicago 1-2 times a year and it is never on time. I rode the City of New Orleans from Centralia,IL. last year and it was 3 hours late going to Chicago and 2 hours late coming back. [:(!] [banghead] I have photographed this train and it seems like it is late 90% of the time.

[Anonymous]

hghgh

[Anonymous]

I spoke with a CSX dispatcher out of JAX in early January. He said AMTRAK pays each freight RR $3.50 per mile per train, which he claimed was not sufficient incentive to run AMTRAK on time. Perhaps AMTRAK needs to pay more for on-time trains, & assess fines for late trains.

The CSX dispatcher also said UP was the worst for AMTRAK -- CEO "hates" AMTRAK & will run any shambling freight around a passenger train.

[Anonymous]

The problem about paying for track usage is that Amtrak has alot of trains and doesn't have the money. The other thing is that they hate us (Amtrak) because they believe that if they run us on time, its taking up time with the frieght trains. CSX doesn't exactly like Amtrak. No Major RR Freight company likes Amtrak. A CSX disp. gave me alot of greef when I use to engineer the Auto Train. He put me behind every freight train possible. Oh well. If Amtrak could boost some rider ship, and increase there income, things could be better.


Amtrak Mark

[Anonymous]

Agreed that the freights don't like AMTRAK. That CSX dispatcher wasn't exactly hostile, but not pro either. Of course, he just does what the managers tell him.

Hard to boost ridership & revenues when on-time performance is so poor. Vicious circle. Freight RRs need to be fairly compensated for trains on their rails, but penalized harshly for delays. More scheduling & less spur-of-the-moment movements might help accommodate more trains on limited rails, like airline flight paths, landing slots, etc.

The dispatcher also told me proudly that auto carriers from Detroit took 5 days to get to Florida. 5 DAYS! Wake up , railroads. This is the age of the overnight package. No wonder the truckers are still winning the war.

I would be interested to know how many TRAINS readers have actually ridden AMTRAK within the past year.

--An interested (& opinionated), but not especially knowledgable observer.

[skerber]

I rode the Cresent from Greenville to Newark twice (once this past summer, another this past holiday season) and back. During the summer when I traveled up to Newark and back to Greenville, I arrived almost on time. When I rode again this past holiday season, I arrived at least 30 minutes early at Newark! On the return trip to Greenville, I arrived on time. For me, I didn't experience the lateness that I have read about.

[dwtrains]

I have stopped taking the Starlight because it is usually 3 or more hours late into Seattle thanks to UP.

[Anonymous]

Yikes!

I'm planning an AMTRAK trip from Orlando to NYC in March and I had no idea the trains were running this far behind. We have plenty of time going up, but coming back could be an issue if we are that late.

I wanted to take the train to give my kids that experience, but it's no wonder the ridership is low when it takes so long to get from A to B and the price is comparable to flying.

Are these delays an accepted part of training or does AMTRAK make any concessions for arriving so late?

[Anonymous]

Why is AMTRAK so hated by the freights? Does CSX have any legitimate reason to be nasty? I'm sure they don't have the cleanest hands. I'm just trying to figure it out. Help.

[jeaton]

When Dave Gunn took over Amtrak, he dropped the "satisfaction" guarantee which offered a refund or other compensation when trains were late or there were other problems. It was done in part, because conditions had gotten to the point that only the most jaded of us rail fans would be satisfied. Also, Amtrak was within weeks of running out of cash. which would have left some 23,000 people much less than satisfied.

I've said before on a different thread that dispatching is a big part of the problem and one that could be corrected if top management made it clear that Amtrak is to get its appropriate priority. I know that some members work the desks, and I am not going to be critical of the front line. A call from the UPS rail service manager shakes up the suits, and I wouldn't want to be a dispatcher having to explain why the a hot double stack was held for Amtrak.

By the way, Trains January issue had an article on the subject, and noted that BNSF CEO Matt Rose, said his multi-million on-time bonus from Amtrak ws worth 3 cents a share, and he attributed it to having a disciplined operation. It would be hard to get the facts, but I wonder how hot freight on-time performance on the other Class Ones would match up to BNSF.

PS-I've never been a dispatcher, but I am willing to bet that 9 out of 10 bad days were the result of just a few minutes lost here and there for any of dozens of reasons. Kind of like death by a thousand cuts. Mark H. Where are you? Any input on this?

[Anonymous]

You know what really pisses me off about CSX is that they lay off about a 1,000 workers and then buy millions of dollars worth of Football tickets. My friend was layed off about the time they did that and I guess he just retired from the railroads all together...I hate CSX all together because of them all (Management) being such jerks to the hard working men and women.

[K. P. Harrier]

Does anybody know what Mr. Gunn thinks of this whole mess? Is it merely just a paycheck to him?

[daveklepper]

When I regularly rode Amtrak, the eastbound Lake Shore from Chicago was often held past departure time for connections from the West. But on one occasion when we left Chicago some five hours late I was still grateful to have a roomette in a Heritage sleeper because if I had been heading home by air I would have been spending the night in an airport waiting room chair on account of a raging sleetstorm. Dave

[jeaton]

According to reports from many sources, Dave Gunn may be one of the best railroad managers to come along in some time. He is highly regarded by employees, others in the business, writers in the business press and members in the U.S. Congress. Even Senator McCain, who strongly opposes Federal Amtrak subsidies respects Gunn for his management skills.

Among recent changes, Amtrak is going from a 180 to a 90 day cycle for scheduled maintenance on cars. That gets to a faster fix on things that are wearing out, finds defects that much quicker and generally improves the prospect of a train going out on the road finishing the trip without an equipment failure.

You can be sure that he and his people are working on anything that causes service problems. Cash is a problem, but reportedly, many projects are coming in under budget.

Any Amtrak employees want to comment?

[Anonymous]

I rode amtrak up and down the washington coast for years and it seemed that the trains were always at least 15 minutes late (usually more like 3 hours). But i was always satisfied with the over-all service. I am a train addict and have been trying to plan a trip from lexington, kentucky to Olympia, WA. This is a very frustrating concept because you can't get there from here. Does anyone have any ideas??

[Anonymous]

I'm new to this forum but have been a rail fan since my first ride behind a steam loco on a Japanese passenger train in 1949 from Hachinoi to Tokyo. (My dad was in the occupying force.) Nevertheless, I ride trains whenever and wherever possible, and have been saddened by the miserable state of affairs concerning AMTRAK's performance and service.

Until our leaders in Congress understand that underfunding the subsidy Amtrak needs to provide passenger service to the US, they will continue to weaken, underperform, loose ridership, and be generally uncompetitive with the airlines, automobile, and even bus service. In fact, that with the unfair tax advantage all railroads have, which makes them uncompetitive with air and truck, which are both subsidized, rail service, both passenger and freight will dissappear altogether.

It occurs to me that members of Congress should be REQUIRED to ride Amtrak regular service whenever possible to familiarize them with the problems their undersubsidizing is causing, from tardiness to poor food service.

[Anonymous]

In response to K.P. Harrier Who asked this question.
"Does anybody know what Mr. Gunn thinks of this whole mess? Is it merely just a paycheck to him?"

You might want to do a little more back ground research on this person. In my view, he seems to do this type of work more because he enjoys rebuilding something that is almost destroyed. As far as the comment “just a paycheck” is concerned, this man is more than able to walk away from this project and not notice the change in his own finances. He has restructured and salvaged a few companies in the past. He is a supporter of Mass Rail Transit.
If he was worried about the paycheck, I feel he would not make many of the statements he does to the committees in Washington D.C. It is refreshing at times to see someone as staunch and forthright with our representatives on Capital Hill. I am sure he would like to see the trains run on time all the time just as the rest of us do.

[In response to this string of messages]

There are also the same people that have livelihoods and business that are dependent on the freight getting through on time to be unloaded, reloaded and driven and delivered to keep these other customers content so they as well don’t ask for refunds due to slow service. As usual this can be a huge can of worms with many view points and valid sides.
I too enjoy train travel and wi***o share that pleasure with my own children. And hope its still around for many years to come.
I would much rather take time on a subway or train in the morning and read the paper or just close my eyes and rest instead of driving in hectic traffic with other tense individuals that are running late and blaming everyone in front of them for their own tardiness. I am sure that if Rail Transit could get the amount of funding that the airlines receive on an annual basis we would see the price of tickets drop drastically and service improve due to more rail being laid for passenger traffic instead of having to share traffic with freight.
I enjoy railroading. Have always been a supporter of it and it has always provided my family with a satisfactory life. Here is the the future and on time delivery for all.

[Anonymous]

Mark-

I gotta take issue with that "Sometimes we have problems with the locomotives". I have ridden passenger trains since before there was an Amtrak perhaps leading to my career choice to work on the RR. Pretty much every trip I have taken in the past 2-3 years has involved engine trouble (those @#$R*&%! GEs I spoke of in another thread). On a recent trip I got on an Amtrak train and we made it all of three miles from the terminal before the one unit we had died. After I learned it was the *&^^%$#@! GE Computer, I even offered the crew my humble expertise with GEs. Luckily we had a good laugh and got moving again. We only had two more failures before the end of the 5 hour trip...lol...

Not counting the drawbridge that was hit by a barge and made us 4 hours late...

It's always something. I still ride though, when I can get the vacation.

LC

QUOTE: Originally posted by AMTRK143

Im an Engineer for Amtrak and the main things that give us problems are the host railroads and track repairs. The longest time I've stayed in the same spot on my P-42, was when I entered NS territory. They kept me in Altoona for 6 hours. Now thats inexcusable. Some times we have problems with the locomotives but thats a different story.


Amtrak Mark

[brilondon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SubwayJeff

Why is AMTRAK so hated by the freights? Does CSX have any legitimate reason to be nasty? I'm sure they don't have the cleanest hands. I'm just trying to figure it out. Help.

Freights hate passenger trains because the passenger trains are supposed to get priority service from the hast railroads. This could screw up the freight sched. if it has to give way to a passenger train that is running behind. Not only is the freight railroad penalized for having to wait but also they have heavy penalties when their trains are late for their customers.

[brilondon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HawaiianBoi

You know what really pisses me off about CSX is that they lay off about a 1,000 workers and then buy millions of dollars worth of Football tickets. My friend was layed off about the time they did that and I guess he just retired from the railroads all together...I hate CSX all together because of them all (Management) being such jerks to the hard working men and women.

I have spoken on this subject before but I will state again why CSX purchased the tickets at the same time as laying off the 1000 workers. First of all, it is good business to give your clients gifts for their using your services or products. If you were given superbowl tickets would you not consider giving your business to that person or company? Second the layoffs were to seasonal type employees who are hired to supplement the workers when they are doing track work trhat can only be done in summer. You have to remember the source of the original story and that they are also just trying to sell you newspapers so they try to make it sensationalistic so that you continue to read thier paper. Last of all its is only 1000 workers out of how many in their organization?

[jchnhtfd]

A further thought on David Gunn, who is, in my humble opinion, one of the really great railroad execs: he has a perfectly wonderful farm waiting for him back home. He isn't in this for the cash, he's in it because he loves railroads and railroading, and passenger service, and he was asked to see if he could do anything about the problems of Amtrak pretty much as a favour. He's a very dedicated man and a great guy to work for.

I've been thinking about the schedule thing... and on time performance... most railroads today are really lean organisations -- for better or worse -- which really means that if something goes wrong, it's very hard to avoid a cascade of problems, which usually impact schedules. And... most railroads today have executives who are, also for better or worse, almost completely geared to the 'bottom line' -- quarterly profits. Delayed freight is more costly than delayed passengers, so... guess what? 50 or 60 years ago, though, there was a tremendous prestige factor in the major name trains (ever notice that no one talks about the on-time performance of the local to West Undershot?), and there were the spare resources -- in manpower and equipment -- so that if something bad happened and, say, the Super Chief looked like it might be delayed for some reason, you betcha that everyone from the head office down to the track walkers moved to make sure that didn't happen. Very different environment.

Just musings...

[Anonymous]

mottertektura -- give AMTRAK a try! I've taken two roundtrips in the past year (Carolinean & San Joaquin), & all 4 trains were within an hour of scheduled arrival.