SD.70 MACe

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mark W. Hemphill

Eric: EMD says the H engine can be made to meet Tier 2.

So, the 90-MAC is a go and the others, which I understand to all be 710's, are not? I would think, then, that we would see a 16-H putting out 6000 and a 12-H putting out about 4000. I remember reading somewhere that EMD has built testbeds of 12-H engines and the held up, and EMD was going to proceed with field trials and start planning for production and the 16-H was still beating itself to death. This was the middle of Summer 2003.

I had made the assumption that the H engine was what EMD was going to use to meet the Tier 2 Standards. I couldn't feature them designing a new engine from scratch and then junking it unless it failed to meet Tier 2. I am given to understand that 2-cycle diesels can't be made to meet the standards at a cost that anyone will buy them for. That means, to me, then, that the 710 is dead when Tier 2 takes effect.

I think GE made their announcement when they did for stock price purposes. I track GE and Wall Street made happy noises about the new locomotive and their stock price immediately went up. I hear the locomotive still isn't ready for prime time, but that is how they announced it - ready to save the American ecology NOW.

[Anonymous]

t-time:

I think what you're saying is that you've read reports that SD70ACe's are being built right now. There are not. SD70MACs with flared radiators are not, repeat, not, SD70ACe's, in spite of what anyone might tell you. The SD70ACe is a radically different design than the SD70MAC and would be very difficult to visually confuse the two, if you study them just a little bit.

As of Monday, December 30, there have been no orders placed for SD70ACe's that EMD will confirm. EMD will let us know the day they have an order and can make that fact public. They won't even hint until then, and wisely so -- would you want to give your competitor the news that a deal is in the offing? Not hardly.

I've heard reports that CSX may take the last of its current SD70MAC order as SD70ACe's, and that BNSF may get some too, but EMD will neither confirm nor deny that. I'm not even going to be a pest and ask them, because they're not going to tell me anything until the deal is closed. We'll report as soon as we know something accurate and truthful, but we're not in the business of speculation, guesswork, or being wrong. (That's sometimes more FUN, I admit, but when you do that it tends to close doors.)

The SD70ACe, according to EMD, will not go into production until well into 2004. To summarize, the only SD70ACe's that exist today are the four prototype units, which as far as I know are all still at the Pueblo Test Track.

santaras: Isn't it amazing that copies of the magazine get to Canada before the U.S.! That's because here, USPS holds for tonnage.

Yes, EMD and GE ARE offering a very similar product. That's what happens as technology matures -- it converges. The good news is that you probably can't go far wrong buying either one. The bad news is that it actually makes your job much harder. How, if you're the builder, do you convince the railroad that your product is measurably better? And how, if you're the mechanical officer, do you convince your board of directors that you bought the right one? And how, if you're that mechanical officer and you admit that there isn't much difference between the two, do you propose to justify your salary -- or even your job's existence?

It's always more fun when technology is moving rapidly, at least from my point of view. That's when people can take big risks and get big rewards, and have big failures, too.

I would not, despite all that, say that EMD and GE are building the same product. There are significant differences between the two -- albeit subtle differences -- but when you're buying a thousand locomotives here and a thousand there, subtleties add up. One key difference is that, to summarize, EMD substantially redesigned everything in the locomotive EXCEPT the engine, and GE substantially redesigned ONLY the engine. That, in my mind, presents a railroad with a sharply drawn choice. EMD had very good reasons for doing what they did, and I'm looking forward to hearing GE's reasons.

Eric: EMD says the H engine can be made to meet Tier 2.

[Anonymous]

Mr.Hamphill, you stated that EMD is only testing their SD-70ACe at Pueblo. I am confused. According to Railpace magazine the on-going order of SD-70AC's are SD-70ACe type units with the flaired radiators,4300HP, the latest high tech adheshion system, modular design etc. At the moment there are from 10-15 units on the ground. Railpace also said CSX has placed an order for 20 SD-70ACe for 2nd quarter delivery. CSX and EMD are testing these units on the Boston line-over the Berkshire mountains.
My question to you Mr. Hamphill is CTC Magazine reported that BNSF placed an order with EMD for 100 SD-70AC's to be delivered in 2004. Is this true? If it is, will EMD ship out SD-70ACe type units like they are doing with the current CSX order . T-time, Winter Haven , Fl.

[stantaras]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mark W. Hemphill

There are no plans to offer the SD70ACe with the isolated-cab option. EMD feels that the relocation of the electrical cabinet suffices. Having ridden the SD70ACe at speed at full load, it struck me as quiet and vibration-free.

It would be silly to give a summarized version of the the article here--that's why it's the length it is. Why not read it when your copy arrives on Monday, or visit your retail outlet today, and from that draw your own conclusions? Suffice it to say that are striking differences in the approach GE took to get to the EV44AC and EMD to the SD70ACe.

EMD is also road testing, but rather than on a Class I, it's doing it at the Pueblo Test Track. It's an interesting question which is the "better" approach; obviously, if EMD wanted to do Class I tests, it could do that, and if GE wanted to do Test Track tests, it could do that.

Time will tell which approach finds better market acceptance.

I Have already received my Febuary copy ,it arrived Jan 3 up here in Canada and read the arcticle.

Thanks to the wife for it was an Christmas present subcription for a year.[read Jan edition Christmas day!]

Still,I think G.E and EMD are offering a very similar product.
Thanks for the reply ,none other from the Editor himself.

[kenneo]

Santaras ---- The extra simple answer is that the Feds have new emissions rules comming up that current locomotives can't meet. The "e"'s are GEs and EMDs answers.

But as Mark says, it ain't that simple! Not by any way. So, I get to wait for the magazine, too. (drat) The good part of that is, however, we will be informed about what really is going on.

One of the things that I suspect we will hear is that every locomotive that EMD and GE now build will be out of the catalogue. We have had some interesting discussions about 6000 HP locomotives, 5000 HP locomotives, 20 cyl vs 16 cyl, and so on, and I think we will see the reasons why the builders have not worked harder on the super high HP locomotives harder than they have. Simply, I suspect that they won't be permitted to sell them in the US due to the new standards.

[Anonymous]

It's a very nice Locomtoive unlike the GE GEVO PELASE

[Anonymous]

There are no plans to offer the SD70ACe with the isolated-cab option. EMD feels that the relocation of the electrical cabinet suffices. Having ridden the SD70ACe at speed at full load, it struck me as quiet and vibration-free.

It would be silly to give a summarized version of the the article here--that's why it's the length it is. Why not read it when your copy arrives on Monday, or visit your retail outlet today, and from that draw your own conclusions? Suffice it to say that are striking differences in the approach GE took to get to the EV44AC and EMD to the SD70ACe.

EMD is also road testing, but rather than on a Class I, it's doing it at the Pueblo Test Track. It's an interesting question which is the "better" approach; obviously, if EMD wanted to do Class I tests, it could do that, and if GE wanted to do Test Track tests, it could do that.

Time will tell which approach finds better market acceptance.

[stantaras]

What's with all the hoppla over this new class?
Is it a quantum leap in locomotive evolution?

How is it being billed as the future when G.E has basically the same thing and theirs is being road tested as we speak.?

Does any one know if the 70 e has the i cab[isolated version]?
[%-)]