There was a video of two trains colliding on here not too long ago. It got me wondering. When that happens, there is a pretty good chance that the crews will be injured or worse and it may be impossilbe to send a distress signal.
If there is a wreck like this in the middle of nowhere, does the train sit there until the next train happens upon the wreck? For low density lines wherein the wreck is in the middle of nowhere, that would really be bad. Obviously, if there was CTC, the dispatcher would probably know something wasn't right and be able to respond more quickly.
Gabe
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Wrecks out in the middle or nowhere are kinds rare, but they do happen.
If an accident happens, whoever is left standing gets on the radio and hollers for help.
As for a dispatcher not seeing a train where he or she expects one to be, or a train being late, that can take anywhere from a few minutes to hours, depending on what kind of train it is.
Unless everyone from all the crew(s) involved are incapacitated beyond the ability to speak, the first notice of a accident is a crew member calling it in on the radio or their cell phone.
You can sit out in the boonies for a long time before help arrives.
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This recollection from a friend of mine involves a recent thread about training crews to run the new diesel locomotives, and also involving a wreck in the middle of nowhere. In this case, station agents on either side heard the wreck:
"I shall tell of a wreck on the GN in the middle of the nite on Montana in forties. No 4 Western Star or maybe Oriental Limited in those days, took the siding at Fort Belknap Mt for No 27 the Fast Mail per their train orders. It was in early days of diesel engines and crew on No 4 had a road foreman with them, Dick Challender, who was supposed to be teaching them the ropes. They stopped at east end of siding . The road foreman wanted to show them something in the rear of the units and they all went back into engine room. However they forgot to set independent brake or something and while they were back in the engine room the train started to drift slowly to the east.
"With the new smooth diesels the crew had no perception of this movement. When they returned to the cab they were horrified to discover that they had drifted out onto the east siding switch. They tried to back the train up but the result was that they either derailed or in any case couldnt make the move fast enough and looked up to see No 27 with P-2 steam engine come around the curve at track speed (79MPH).
"The timing had been such that No 27 had gone by a clear approach block out in the countryside. You can imagine the force of the collision and the amount of damage and injuries which ensued, and this was before train radios or good communication.
"Pretty soon it became apparent that No 27 was not in the block at Zurich and No 28 was not in the block at Harlem, like they should have been.
"The operators at both stations became apprehensive and told the dispatcher in Havre, Fred Frahm, of their concern and also that they had both heard one hell of a crashing noise a few minutes earlier out in the quiet, still counytryside.
"At about the same time, John M Budd, later President of the GN, who was aboard the rear of one of the trains in a private car but unhurt, found his way to a wayside telephone and came on the line to report the accident.
"As he cut in the telephone he heard dispatcher Fred in a somewhat agitated voice talking to the operators at the stations where the Meet orders were copied --I think one of them was Havre, and Fred kept asking, "What do your orders say? What does your clearance say???? "
"John M Budd broke in and angrily reported the accident, and then said, "you quit worrying about what the orders and the clearance say. We will figure out who is to blame for this soon enough but for now you should be getting ambulances and doctors out here because we have people hurt."
"I was told this story by several old timers in Havre in 1972, most of whom have gone to their rewards since that time, but the underlying theme of the story is that the dispatchers (and operators too) first concern when he hears of an accident is to check and make sure he was not to blame. That's an entirely instinctive, normal human response, I have even done it myself when lesser things happened that were not my fault, such as a train smacking a motor car with no injuries.
"However -- John M. Budd did not seem to realize this; and it is said that he was forever after angry with Fred over this, and prevented him from ever being promoted by the Great Northern Railway. Very unfair, and a bad rap because Fred was an entirely capable railroad man and a good train dispatcher."
Mailman wrote: In these days of cell phones everywhere, in terms of emergencies, there aren't many "middle of nowhere" places left.
Depends on where you are, we have very spotty cell coverage here in BC outside the major centers. And in the deep canyons (like the Fraser) GPS can be somewhat iffy too.
Pathfinder wrote: Mailman wrote: In these days of cell phones everywhere, in terms of emergencies, there aren't many "middle of nowhere" places left.Depends on where you are, we have very spotty cell coverage here in BC outside the major centers. And in the deep canyons (like the Fraser) GPS can be somewhat iffy too.
<shrug> Most common way to contact emergency services these days is via cell phone.
I was a Paramedic in the days before cell phones, when we only heard about emergencies when someone else came upon them.
Many railroads call certain points over the radio. Unless a dispatcher is occupied elsewhere, one might figure that said dispatcher might notice the lack of progress reports.
Even on our short 10-mile scenic ride, there are a few spots where we could have a significant problem and there'd be no one around to see us. And cell coverage can be pretty spotty. The station crew would probably get curious if we were substantially late on our return, however.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Wrecks?
Well.
Sometimes it's days before they are found; if at all. Especially if they are alone and have no one looking out for them.
I recall coming up on Flagstaff in I-40 once, the skies were veiled in glowing fire to the south and west along the railroad. I never learned what happened there until the next morning but there had been a hazmat fire on the line and they had to shut it down. It was better to stop for the night in safe haven than to risk a detour in the Arizona Mountains on small roads.
If everything is working as it should across the entire railroad, somebody somewhere will ask about such a such a train... eventually.
If both trains were totally destructed and the crews killed, the simple absence when enough time has passed beyond both train's expected schedules will be sufficeint to create enough interest in what happened.
I totally believe the radio call scenario. OH S_____!!!! JIM JUMP!!!! then silence. That silence will be filled soon enough after the wreckage and bodies quit falling from the skies.
The finest in communication gear across the skies, space and land usually carry a bad word as a very first and possibly the only sign something is wrong.
Trucking radios first sign of really serious trouble somewhere within range is usually a vile or bad word shouted with a tone of great fear or understanding of thier fate. It would be left to those that heard it to figure out and count heads among each other to findout who or what happened.
Sometimes nothing happened until someone walked on two feet 10 miles to a phone to get the word out. That would take a few hours.
Other times ive broke down somewhere before the days of cell phone, satellite or anything and simply sat. Someone.. usually my boss will get angry, then motivated then curious to findout what the heck happened to me or my rig. I lost two days one time this way but I was eventually discovered and the problems were fixed.
I think back to the war years where large parts of the ocean were unpatrolled and ships were sunk or things happened that never got documented except for a log entry, ship lost presumed sunk with all hands.
Maybe one day someone will find that ship and figure out what happened.
A friend of mine was an EMT out in Arizona when the Sunset Limited was derailed by sabotage. It went off the tracks in the middle of nowhere. Literally.
I don't know how the railroad got the word to emergency services, but I do know that the local fire departments and medics had a lot of rough country to traverse to get out there. My friend told me that part of the problem was evacuating the injured, and coordination of assets. There were several fire companies that got out there, and from what I understand, the entire west end of the Phoenix metro area was stripped of ambulances.
There was also a problem with medevac helicopters finding a decent place to land, I understand. But a ground evac took 25 minutes to the nearest paved road. It says something about a train that it can go off a track, injure dozens, but only have one person killed. That's a big only, of course- but it could have been much, much, worse.
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