Should the Government Breakup Union Pacific?

[K. P. Harrier]

It seems one cannot stop and wave at a UP train anymore without fear of going to jail. It seems one cannot decal a model locomotive with UP on it without some type of royalty payment. If the government decreed a breakup of the UP into two or three roads, it seems few tears would ever be shed.

[mudchicken]

Fat chance.......

(1) The STB/ US Government reverse itself?
(2) The associated costs!
(3) Break-up the airlines & trucking companies too?
(4) React to hysteria generated by one VERY small constituency?
(5) Void copyright and trademark laws almost as old as the country?

[dharmon]

What exactly is it that UP is doing wrong or illegally to justify a breakup?

All of their mergers have been approved by the STB. It doesn't appear that anti-trust would be a basis.....let's face it many of the RR absorbed into UP may not have made it to today independently. They are not unfairly driving competetors from business (Microsoft). And while they may be monopolizing rail transportation in some areas, they are really competinig with trucks, not BNSF and CSX and NS and......

Withg regards to photography, if you are doing it from a public place, not tresspassing, and not seeking to profit from images of thier equipment, then you have nothing to worry about. If you are questioned..tell the truth. The ACLU will be more than happy to take a case against unreasonable search and seizure under the name of security. But that being said, there is heightened security concerns right now. Things that seems ordinary and simple to you may not be. You'd be surprised what an easy target looks like. The US has not been attacked since WWII...........I am a big supporter of constitutionality and rights....but I am also a big supporter of stop whining and do your part to help preventing folks from hitting us....


The logo licensing stuff.....is well within their rights.........just as it is for NASCAR, the NBA and NFL. Big deal. It may add a dollar or two to already overpriced models. Don't buy UP stuff. Or learn to make your own decals.

So why do they deserve to be broken up? They are working under the same economic principles that built America....compete, grow, expand, make money......Do you think Gould or Harriman would give a thought to whether the railfan's or modeler's feeling were hurt over a buck.....????

I'm not a UP fan. I am a fan of the consitution, rights, free market economy...and railroads.

[jchnhtfd]

I'd have to say no -- partly for mudchicken's reasons, partly because there is no monopoly issue here. Much as I may sometimes dislike the way UP chooses to play the game, they are playing by the rules. If you don't happen to like the rules, (mudchicken's #5), get the people (Congress) to change the rules. Don't demonize the players.

[TH&B]

Breaking up the uprr might seem like a good idea but it means you should also break up every large coorperation in the US!

[Modelcar]

....Seems to be no basis for any breakup of such company. Let it thrive and help support the economic structure of this country which is just now starting to thrive again after almost 3 years of our stagnant economy.

[AlcoRS11Nut]

QUOTE: Originally posted by K. P. Harrier

It seems one cannot stop and wave at a UP train anymore without fear of going to jail. It seems one cannot decal a model locomotive with UP on it without some type of royalty payment. If the government decreed a breakup of the UP into two or three roads, it seems few tears would ever be shed.

I would shed a tear!!!! I love UP!!!!!!

For your information: I watch Union Pacific trains ALL the time, and I NEVER got "in trouble"!!!!

[vsmith]

Wouldnt they also have to break up the other large massive carriers like BNSF or CSX or NS also?

They may not be as large as U Pee but they aint much smaller. After all, break U Pee and then whose the 600 lb monster? NS? CSX?

How would you divide it? Revive SP? didnt SP manage themselves into bankruptcy?

Too many problems, U Pee is too big. Out here on the west coast now there are only two carriers, U Pee and BNSF. Is that sufficient competition?

U Pee cannot expand any more in the west, Take over BNSF? the Goverment would never allow a monopoly of rail service. There is really only a handfull of carriers nationwide anymore, who else could they swallow?

[JoeKoh]

Make railroads smaller and care about the customers they serve?Yea that would be a good idea but its not going to happen.and about taking pics and waving as long as you take pics and leave footprints you should be ok.
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by K. P. Harrier

It seems one cannot stop and wave at a UP train anymore without fear of going to jail. It seems one cannot decal a model locomotive with UP on it without some type of royalty payment. If the government decreed a breakup of the UP into two or three roads, it seems few tears would ever be shed.

IT isin't going to happen due to 1st of all *** Cheny was on the UP board
2nd this is a free country so the Goverment couldn't tell UP to stop makeing model RR companies to decal their Locomotives
3rd they'ed also have to break up Roadway Express and American Airlines also
4th You would be aresseted prorably by KCS for waving at an enginner

[JLLentner]

Why should UP be broken up?

[Anonymous]

If they broke up UP, then BNSF, then NS, then CSX, I wouldn't mind....at least not if rrs like the B&O, C&O, Southern, etc. came back. Hey, the B&O lasted over 100 years, and it had a local influance on almost every community (It built most of the ones around here). I'd say reverse the mergers!

Of course that never would happen, even if Daniel Willard came back from the grave!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by K. P. Harrier

It seems one cannot stop and wave at a UP train anymore without fear of going to jail. It seems one cannot decal a model locomotive with UP on it without some type of royalty payment. If the government decreed a breakup of the UP into two or three roads, it seems few tears would ever be shed.

There is a lot of romanticizing over the fallen flags of yore,... the smaller companies had more character, so people could identify with them better, and there is the "back yard" syndrome....but honestly there isn't a single one of those older, smaller companies that wouldn't have built every single mile of profitable track in the country, if they had access to the capital to do so,...the "conglomeration" in a way is natural and to be expected, do you think it woud be much different if the name were "Rock Island" or SSW instead of UP? I doubt it, personally

[Anonymous]

Lets break up UP and melt the economy again! What about BNSF then?

We are just starting to get back to profits and good corporate spending. Never happen unless Mr Bush wants to lose the election.

If the goal is to bring back the glory days just let the market handle it self. Look at the airlines. All the big players just got bigger and stupid, but it also allow for smaller start ups to appear (South West, Jet Blue).

[Train Guy 3]

Even if UP was broken up, isnt there a chance in the future that it would all just merge back together.

[K. P. Harrier]

The forum to date on this topic speaks words of practicality. But you may want to read the topic UNION PACIFIC IS POWERLESS AGAINST A SUPER FEARFUL THING.

Concerning lapsed trademarked names of fallen flags now within UP #8230; this one will be interesting to watch. The Union Pacific name is on solid ground. Fallen flag names, well, I have my doubts if they were not renewed in a timely manner.

[Anonymous]

[2c] It wouldn't hurt my feelings any. [|(] And while your at it bust up the BNSF too[#ditto]

[Anonymous]

Yeah ding-a-ling. Let's bust up the company I work for so you guys can take pretty pictures and because you are pissed that you cannot tresspass to take pictures. I have a wonderful idea........Lets break up the company that you work for and ruin your job security because I am pissed at your company. Being a foamer is O.K. if that is what you like, and I always wave at the kids and foamers and toot for them. But, remember. The RRs are not here for your enjoyment. They are here to turn a profit and move freight.....period! They don't give a rats *ss if you want to take pictures or not. You guys need to quit whining about UP (as chicken s**t as they are) copyrighting their logo. Geez, the NFL has done it forever. They should, it IS theirs. Bottom line is if you are not tresspassing or acting like a goofball we will leave you alone. If you are tresspassing on RR property, you will probably catch some static. If I went to Wal-Mart and was poking around behind the building, I would probably be hasseled by the cops or security. I would have no business there as you have no business on RR property.
Ken

[jwar]

If it was broken up, would it be like AT&T, of which got into my wallet fairley quik8ley (pun intended). If it was broken up dont you think they would find a manner to make money, there not where they are today by being stupid and not looking at all aspects. Id worry if they were broken up, higher tarriffs and all. Hey at least there not sending the jobs overseas as like the tech from Dell I chatted with, In India, trouble shooting this computor

I worked for two Roads which were inhaled by the behemoths, both were in trouble and sold out.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

Yeah ding-a-ling. Let's bust up the company I work for so you guys can take pretty pictures and because you are pissed that you cannot tresspass to take pictures. I have a wonderful idea........Lets break up the company that you work for and ruin your job security because I am pissed at your company. Being a foamer is O.K. if that is what you like, and I always wave at the kids and foamers and toot for them. But, remember. The RRs are not here for your enjoyment. They are here to turn a profit and move freight.....period! They don't give a rats *ss if you want to take pictures or not. You guys need to quit whining about UP (as chicken s**t as they are) copyrighting their logo. Geez, the NFL has done it forever. They should, it IS theirs. Bottom line is if you are not tresspassing or acting like a goofball we will leave you alone. If you are tresspassing on RR property, you will probably catch some static. If I went to Wal-Mart and was poking around behind the building, I would probably be hasseled by the cops or security. I would have no business there as you have no business on RR property.
Ken

Easy big guy. I didn't mean to rattle your cage [soapbox] I was and will probably be again a railroader. [:D] But you gotta admit they're getting a little bit too big for their britches[V]

[techguy57]

KP Harrier: There is really no right or wrong answer to your initial question, rather any answer is merely a matter of preference or opinion. Personally I would say no for the same reasons dharmon and mudchicken already answered. Thats how big business works.

But I think you should really be asking "WILL the government break up Union Pacific?" My response to that is probably not any time soon. UP has been careful to dot their I's and cross their T's, and I think the politicians are a little busy with their supersized version of RISK, trying to figure out how to make the military cover Afghanistan and Iraq while trying to keep the US and our other interests safe at the same time.( Another 300 reservists just the other day.) But if they wanted to dig up dirt on UP I'm sure they could. I don't know if they'd find anything incriminating enogh to cause a breakup but I'm sure they could find enough to pester UP and cause some financial greif.

Like mudchicken said the government is not likely to reverse its decisions quickly, and since UP, among others, continues to find fortune in increasing deregulation I think they are fairly safe at this time.

And yes, despite the fact that I have no business or financial related interest in the Union Pacific, I am a fan and love to watch the local GP-40s run through town. Especially the yard trains in their original livery colors (CNW, SP and DRGW)[:D]

There you go.

Mike

[espeefoamer]

The government doesn't have to break up the UP.A few more mergers and they will collapse under thier own weight.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by K. P. Harrier

It seems one cannot stop and wave at a UP train anymore without fear of going to jail. It seems one cannot decal a model locomotive with UP on it without some type of royalty payment. If the government decreed a breakup of the UP into two or three roads, it seems few tears would ever be shed.

K.P.

You have not stated any legal reason for the breakup of the Union Pacific. The government cannot simply decree a breakup without significant justification. The protections against government siezures of private property are among the strongest in our Constitution. Ther bare allegations you have raised are inadequate to support a lawsuit, much less a breakup. Corporate break ups such as that of AT&T are done as a result of violations of the Antitrust laws (Sherman Act). Railroads, by virtue of their separate regulation by the Surface Transportation Board (STB) and previously by the Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC) are exempt from the provisions of these antitrust laws in large measure. As there isn't even any problem with antitrust even raised by your allegations, there can't legally be a breakup of the UP. So, as others have said for equally valid factual reasons, don't hold your breath.

Not too bad for an old throttle jock...

LC

[UPTRAIN]

I hope they don't break up.....I WORK FOR EM!!!!!!!!!

[daveklepper]

The competition for railroad freight is trucking and barges. Breaking up UP would make the railroad industry weaker, not stronger. I'm all for a strong railroad industry. That is the bottom line for me.

[UPTRAIN]

AMEN!!!

[Anonymous]

The industry will remain strong with or without the UP. The traffic needs to flow. Where the traffic needs rails they will ever remain.

LC

[Anonymous]

I don't think they should. I'm not a big UP fan myself, but who knows what would happen if they broke 'em up. I don't want to take a chance.

[Anonymous]

It'll never happen but wouldn't we wish? Huge conglomerate companies are so incredibly out of touch with customers and employees it's sick. Listening to the big-wigs schpeal and the catchy slogans, then seeing the "real world" of how they run things makes me wanna vomit. The govt doesn't and will never have the balls to step on any of these mighty toes to stir anything up--they're all too tied in together. One thing they could try is opening up trackage rights to other carriers in areas where customers are getting jacked around by these bullies; if UP or BNSF don't want the business, let someone else in who does.

[wallyworld]

I don't understand what royalty payments for decals on model trains and railfan trespassing issues have to do with the either the federal government breaking up Union Pacific or the connection to what the public's reaction to it would be.
It's a pretty bizarre train of thought. I take it you are angry at UP. Beyond that, you lost me.