Great construction photo shots, K.P.! Keep an eye on the erection of that new high voltage tower; they will probably move the lines from the old tower to the new by helicopter which would really be something to see.
California has laws requiring recycling at all levels of construction, so it appears (per your photo) that the highway contractor has built an onsite plant to grind up some concrete spoil from the current and previous nearby projects. When the time comes to pour, it will keep some concrete trucks from travelling long distances.
K. P. HarrierWhile K.P. was onsite, BNSF trains were a constant feature, eastbound after eastbound on Main 1, and westbound after westbound on Main 2. Conspicuously absent was the use of Main 3, the steep 3% line. With so many trains, one has to wonder why BNSF hasn’t triple-tracked the east slope of Cajon Pass yet.
I think you've just answered your own question. The DS is keeping things moving on just two mains so the need for extending the third isn't quite there yet. Moreover, the economy is pretty flat as shown by publicized layoffs in BNSF and UP.
Wait, maybe Metrolink will pay for the 3rd MT to Victorville in order to extend service when the new Las Vegas HSR arrives in a few years ...... BWAAHAAHAA! Sorry, couldn't resist.
As far as the Metrolink PVL line traffic, I don't remember anything about completely new trains. IIRC they are just extending 91 Line trains from Rivercide to Perris. The highly touted (and unproven) new Tier-4 locos will be needed mainly to replace their high mileage, 24 year old ones.
Time will tell on a third track from CP Highgrove to Gonzales, but I think that BNSF will wait until the I-10 widening / changes come in five to ten years. The gap is only three miles, no big deal.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
K.P.:
Thank you for the updates on the debris piles and other changes along Rt. 138 near Morman Rocks. Your photos of the huge piles of highway concrete made me wonder how much of it was from Concrete Mountain near Colton Crossing.
--John
Ranchero Road
Hesperia, CA
The under construction Ranchero Road bridge over the I-15 Freeway that suffered a major setback when it burned down was repaired, finished, and finally opened in February 2015. (Where have I been all this time?) Ranchero Road now interchanges with the freeway, and is a boon for area residences and railfans south of Cajon Pass desiring a quick route themselves to the north side of the pass, and vice versa.
The overpass is a sprawling structure and a marvel to see in person. Pictures are somewhat incapable of capturing its true presence, at least easily.
You may recall the Ranchero Road roadway underpass to the east at the BNSF Transcon tracks was completed a few years ago. That bridging over the underpass is for three tracks. It has been seven years since the last triple tracking took place on Cajon Pass, and two things are working against further triple-tracking eastward:
First, the slowing economy seems to be reducing shipments, and …
Second, scarce resources (money) seem to be being put into the northern Transcon, which reportedly is suffering severe congestion.
Cajon Pass is pretty free-flowing as it is now, so it is unlikely the mildly ascending east slope will see triple tracking anytime soon.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Gridlock Pass
In somewhat recent times, and it is unknown when exactly it began, an operating phenomenon has developed in Cajon Pass at Summit that impacts the east slope, between Summit and Lugo, and at times beyond. The phenomenon is that most, if not all, westbound trains at Summit that are or will be following another train down the hill tend to wait for a green signal even though it is not red.
That obviously allows supposedly hot eastbound trains (such as Amtrak No. 4) time to traverse through and / or crossover in the Summit interlocking with little hindrance.
Hogheads thus often wait and hold their westbound trains at Summit a long time, forsaking yellow and flashing yellow signals until they finally receive a green (or red over green if they will be crossing over).
Thus, westbound trains backup on the east slope. Between Summit and Martinez there are three tracks (3.1 miles), but only two tracks (2.6 miles) between Martinez and Lugo. It is unclear if at Martinez the dispatcher flags trains past the absolute signal(s) or if trains move on a flashing red indication so that trains are bunched together.
The present track schematic is probably the best that can be under the circumstances. Triple tracking Martinez to Lugo would definitely help, but that is a very expensive proposition, and has its own operating complications with the trains often stacked up on the east slope.
Since Martinez is a control point already, putting in a single crossover there may be the magic desired to make it a more free-flowing east slope. In light, though, of the present economic situation for the railroads and the great coal train loses in the Powder River Basin up in Wyoming, BNSF may just grin and bear the slowdowns on the east slope of Cajon Pass.
An odd situation occurred recently that puts a rather new twist to the east slope, at least from this contributor’s perspective and first seeing it. A westbound was tied down just east of Summit, on Main 2, the middle track. An eastbound on Main 1 changed its crew midway between Summit and Martinez, by where the eastward night floodlighting ends. With the new crew it went down east past Martinez, stopped, and then backed uphill on Main 2 to completely within the triple track section, and thereat was tied down.
So, Main 2’s signal block ended up having both a westbound and an eastbound train tied down within it!
It would seem the east slope is a place to watch, as there is now more of an operating incentive to triple track it than previously. But, it probably would not be surprising if the BNSF just grinned and beared it considering the industry’s current downward economic situation.
Great News for Cajon Pass …
… East Slope Auto Drivers
It is unknown when it happened, but the super painful 30 M.P.H. speed limit on the east slope’s Summit Valley Road has been increased to the more reasonable 55 M.P.H.
Is that wonderful or what?
CP MARTINEZ and Flashing Reds
There was some question as to what the absolute signals at Martinez display since so many uphill trains are seen stopped right behind another within a single block. Presently, Main 2 east of Martinez becomes Main 3 to the west.
CP MARINEZ (Present)
Main 1------------------ < \Main 2 \ > Main 1---------------------------------------- <Main 3 Main 2---------------------------------------- <>
.
A westward visual from the east:
Above, the forefront left signal is the key one in question, because there is a certain bias for uphill trains to consistently use that track, though in CTC any track in either direction can be used at any time.
In that above photo, in case any are not familiar with Cajon Pass, behind the left signal, on the opposite side of the CP, is a cantilever signal bridge that because of lighting kind of blends in with the background.
That non-number plated absolute signal mast with heads facing both ways was observed (with a train known to be ahead within the background block), and it was in flashing red over red mode.
The previous forum post suggested a crossover between the two straight-through mains at Martinez would speed things up, which it undoubtedly would in times of heavy westbound and eastbound trains.
Main 1------------------ < \Main 2 \ > Main 1---------------------------------------- < \Main 3 \ Main 2---------------------------------------- < >
A similar single-crossover SINGLE-BLOCK between CP’s arrangement is also between CP FROST (M.P. 38.0) and CP EAST VICTORVILLE (M.P. 34.6), about 3.4 miles, less than 20 miles downgrade to the railroad east from the Martinez area.
It should be interesting to see how BNSF deals with the at times gridlock periods, as, in theory (“in theory”), half of a westbound train crew’s time on duty (Barstow-Los Angeles) could (“could”) be consumed just traversing the east slope of Cajon Pass!
In a previous post, you made the distinction (or wondered about the distinction) between the dispatcher talking a train into an occupied block or using the flashing-red signal for that purpose.I think you'll find that the flshing-red aspect is seen only at absolute signals--other signals are basically "Proceeed-at-restricted-speed-without-stopping" when they're all red, according to the operating rules..."stop and proceed at restricted speed" is in the past.And, since an absolute signal is at a control point, i.e., controlled by the dispatcher, the flashing-red is his way of moving the trains. Talking a train through an absolute signal, though legal, might be frowned upon, hence this is how it should be done.(Still remember the immortal words of one engineer I worked with early in my career as a red signal went by: "Ever run an absolute signal before?" My reaction was dumbfounded silence, though it didn't appear at the time that we had a choice.)
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Traveling Through or In Cajon Pass
The Highway 138 Matter
Between Walker and Cajon
From time to time K.P. traverses Cajon Pass, over Highway 138 west of the I-15 Freeway. That highway is being widened, to probably five lanes. The old I-15 concrete chunks are piled up (background pile) and being converted to a powder, pebble-like material, and apparently recycled on Highway 138.
Looking eastbound, the new roadway grading is on the south side (right).
A wider view looking eastbound, the NEW roadway alignment shifts from the south side (background right) to the left side (forefront left.
In the above view, on the left, a new power line tower was erected.
A south electrical tower has been moved out of the way, and new mental-work for the bottom portion only was put in.
The new Highway 138 widening will make it easier for railfan and traveler alike.
In other matters, as close to Cajon Pass as K.P. is based, he, believe it or not, hardly visits the pass. It is desirable that he spends more time at Summit and see for himself what the congestion situation really is for the east slope. On a recent trip to New Mexico and Texas, at Winslow, AZ some hard to see things were figured out, and seeing who owns BNSF now, that and Cajon Pass could very well be come to grips with, or money could just be thrown away as it has been for years. Stay tuned …
Has Fort Worth Been Reading This Thread
-- and Breathed Fire?
K.P. just got back a little while ago from Summit and the western part of the EAST slope in Cajon Pass (CA), and operations therein seemed very, very, very different compared to visits of the past, even of the very recent past!
Ever see a very long trail of Maintenance-of-Way self-running equipment pass? K.P. did today too at Summit, moving westbound on Main 3.
More and fuller details in a day or two when K.P. can regroup …
Update as of Thursday, April 28, 2016
Work Equipment Passes Summit and a …
… Sudden Operating Change
Part I (of I-III)
The intent for visiting the Summit area of Cajon Pass and its eastern slope was to further document westbound trains spending a long time at Summit before heading down the west slope, and the severe backlog of westbound trains that that caused.
At first arrival, it just so happened that a very large string of track equipment was being moved westbound, on Main 3.
Continued in Part II
Part II (of I-III)
While the long Maintenance-of-Way equipment movement was still passing, a BNSF westbound showed up, and stopped.
As the M of W whatever it was called kept passing and passing …
… apparently the BNSF westbound got a yellow and moved on.
Continued in Part III
Part III (of I-III)
While all this was transpiring, previously an eastbound could be heard stopping out of view at Summit. It soon started moving again, and in current orders out of Fort Worth, TX, the eastbound started moving in low run numbers and stayed that way. It finally moved past (background train).
Earlier, and the reason for K.P. being in Cajon Pass, was his dispatch to Hesperia-Victorville. So, with these trains passing, K.P. headed east in the assignment. But, eastbound on Summit Valley Road, a long westbound cab-hop was seen, which I guess since such movements are sans a caboose these days, are now called a light engine movement. The decision was made to beat it to Summit. Bad idea! It was beat alright, but it passed Summit as I did so only the movement going away could be photographed. As was the case this date, there was NO waiting at Summit a long time as in recent visits.
At this, the decision was made to head to Hesperia-Victorville via I-15 and forsake the east slope.
So, anyway, something seems to have suddenly changed. Westbounds NO longer wait at Summit except for a red signal. Why and for how long that will last is unknown, but recent thread post words about the need to triple-track the east slope because of congestion and trains just backing up (because of waiting for green signals) may (“may”) have gotten someone’s authoritative attention in Fort Worth. Something caused this radical change …
This will end the series.
K.P., I don't know how recent this change you refer to took place, or which tracks you're specifically referring to, but if I'm understanding you correctly, I might have the answer.
Back in the day, before BNSF added its 3rd main track, the main reason WBs would stack up at Summit is because, as you know, the vast majority of them took the old South Track/aka No.2 Track (Now Main 3), and because of its 3% grade, the speed for freights was limited to something like 20mph. After Summit, the next signal reached heading west down the 3% was something like 3 miles away, right as they entered Terrace Cut. At 20mph, it took a WB quite a while to get its rear end past that signal so as to give at least a solid yellow to the next WB at Summit.
Today, with the addition of that new main track on the faster (30mph vs. 20mph) 2.2% alignment parallel to the old North Track/Main 1, plus the addition of what Googleearth suggests to me are at least two new signals west of Summit, PLUS the overhead signals at Silverwood, you have more points for each WB to get clear of in order to give at least a restricted signal to proceed for the next WB behind.
That's just my lunchtime assessment from far away in north Idaho. Hopefully someone with some recent boots-on-the-ground or in-the-cab experience will chime in with a more accurate explanation.
One interesting observation from my last visit to Cajon in 2004, when WBs were REALLY backed up coming down the hill. There was a local trainmaster overseeing a BBQ at Summit, and as each WB eased up the hill from Lugo, he radioed the crew to ask what they wanted on their burger, what kind of drink, etc. Each train then stopped at Summit, got handed up a hot lunch, and eventually got their signal to follow the previous train down the hill. Real morale booster I'm sure.
K. P. HarrierAt first arrival, it just so happened that a very large string of track equipment was being moved westbound, on Main 3.
KP, my question is about the very short siding shown in the above photo between the two track vehicles. I suspect that that may be long enough for one locomotive or a hirail vhicle but for what other use escapes me. Got any knowledge of its purpose?
Back before the days of DPU, those short sidings at Summit were also used for staging helper engines. Removing them from an eastbound would be no problem, but I think that adding them to westbounds might have taken place at Martinez spur for safety reasons.
@BruceKelly, the new universal crossovers at CP Walker (three miles west of Summit) help to keep things moving. Those aforementioned DPUs allow some freights to use main 3 without risk of stalling.
Cajon sub map: http://goo.gl/maps/fT0BF
The short sidings as can be seen in pictures prior to triple tracking was more often used for M.O.W. equipment or hot box, car set outs.
In the past the helper units that needed to be added for westbound trains was tied on in Victorville, Ca. Those helpers going Eastbound was tied on in San Bernardino, Ca. When it came time to cut them loose they would do so at the Summit and return smartly back to the base of origin.
It was more the exception then the rule. You'd find helper units waiting there to help a westbound train down the mountain but that was a rare occasion.
You can always get a good picture of what happened at the Summit by reading Chard Walker's, Cajon Pass. I considered him to be a friend, may he rest in peace.
I raised my family in Victorville, Ca. spending a considerable amount of time on Cajon Pass. It was fun back then because the mountain was yours to roam at will and railroad security seldom confronted rail-fans. I'd like to think we behaved ourselves while guest on SP and ATSF properties.
RickH
BarstowRick.com Model Railroading How To's
To a Bunch of You …
A number of signaling and operating issues have been raised from and between the posts of CShaveRR and BarstowRick, and K.P. has been around Cajon Pass long enough to supply some (“some”) answers. Nevertheless, a few things need to be verified with field checks, and hopefully that can be done sometime this week.
Bruce Kelly, on his May 2, 2016 post said, “ … because of its 3% grade [Main 3], the speed for freights was limited to something like 20mph.” (Emphasis and bracketing mine) That sounded so right, as it is totally in line with my observations over the years. Some trains crawl down at 15 M.P.H. But, perusing some of my file photos, a group of photos I took on a special I was privileged to ride last year was looked over. One popped out, as in jumping off the computer screen! It was this one:
The special was westbound on Main 3 approaching Interstate 15 (background) between Summit and Cajon, and passed speed limit signs, 30 M.P.H. for both passenger and freight trains! That was surprising to K.P., because Mr. Kelly’s ‘something like 20 M.P.H.’ was more like my observations over the years. I guess a speed limit is quite different from the actions of a skilled and experienced hoghead …
Anyway, an effort will be made to get back to everyone soon, from one who has seen so much over the years including the evolution of those setout tracks (I guess it is just one setout track now) at Summit.
Take care all,
K.P.
BNSF timetables from 1996 and 2008 show that several miles of the 3% line are/were 20mph for freight.
See here, page 10, where it refers to MP 56.6 to MP 62.2 (ST), ST meaning South Track at the time:
http://www.fobnr.org/timetables/bnsf/phase1/SouthernCalifornia/SOUTHERNCALIFORNIA-02-100196.pdf
See here, page 10, where it refers to MP 56.6 to MP 61.5 (Main 3):
http://www.huntsvillenewswire.com/RailroadInfo/BNSF%20Timetables/California%20Division.pdf
Not having track charts handy here at work, I can only estimate that your 30mph boards are near or perhaps just west of MP 61.5, or that BNSF has since raised the speed limit in Terrace Cut at some point after that 2008 timetable.
My copy of System TT #5 dated April 16,1995 shows 30 - 30 westward on NT between MP's 56.6 and 64.2X.
Westward on ST is 30 - 20 between MP 56.6 and 62.2
BarstowRickIn the past the helper units that needed to be added for westbound trains was tied on in Victorville, Ca. Those helpers going Eastbound was tied on in San Bernardino, Ca. When it came time to cut them loose they would do so at the Summit and return smartly back to the base of origin.
I stand corrected. Time for a brain cramp checkup ....
MikeF90, and of course everyone tuned in here.
"I stand corrected. Time for a brain cramp checkup ...." as submitted above in Mike's response.
Hee Haw
LOL!!!!! Now stop that, I'm nobody important. To funny!
Actually, you weren't wrong. I was just elaborating on the good points you had made. I did see the eastbound helpers tied onto a westbound train but like I said earlier that was more the exception then the rule. Usually due to braking issues as they took the steeper grade down the hill.
Here lately it's anyone's guess.
CShaveRR (3-21):
Belated, nevertheless I was finally able to confirm what you conveyed back in March, that absolutes use a flashing red while intermediates a solid red for going into an occupied block, at least in Cajon Pass.
Some years back the Cajon Pass area TARGET intermediates at Ono, for eastbound trains, went from say green to flashing red when passed. Yesterday, I was able to confirm the present COLOR LIGHT intermediates, when passed, just go to a solid red and stay that way.
In confirming … A Main 1 eastbound (below) strangely approached a yellow (cantilever left signal) …
… and when the train passed it the signal went to red, and stayed a solid red.
But, SUPER STRANGELY, blowing the photo up as just above, these intermediate signals DON’T seem (“don’t seem”) to have number plates!
Continued …
(Continued) CShaveRR (3-21):
I soon saw why that signal was yellow when there was apparently nothing ahead.
The train stopped to change crews. Some trains do such at this Ono location, but most don’t.
But, maybe there was something ahead …
At Blue Cut in Cajon Pass itself, a “G” (grade) plated signal also remained solid red after a UP train to Salt Lake City and parts east continued to pass.
Contacts tell me on Union Pacific the signal policy changed so that now a red intermediate can be passed without stopping, but at restricted speed of course. In the absence of living BNSF contacts, I would imagine BNSF has a similar policy.
Thanks, CShaveRR, for your trustworthy educational input here at the forum.
Take care,
In most rulebooks the signal aspects follow the same pattern:
A solid red on an absolute signal is "stop and stay".
A flashing red on an absolute is "stop and proceed" (at restricted speed)
A solid red on an intermediate is "stop and proceed" (at restricted speed). On most intermediates, this is the most restrictive indication.
The "G" plate (for "Grade", on intermediates only) permits passing a "stop and proceed" at restricted speed. Some eastern roads use "P" (Permissive) instead of "G".
Upper and Lower Cajon Blvd.
The photos herein were taken on Saturday, July 2, 2016.
The connecting of the lower and upper Cajon Blvd’s (old Route 66) appears to be well along now.
The upper section:
Above, a concrete wall is present, undoubtedly to thwart and discourage sightseers from stopping and taking pictures of the nearby nudist colony. We as railfans would be stopping there if we could for railroad photos.
The lower Cajon Blvd. is clearly getting ready to open to the upper Cajon Blvd. and be through route again..
While there are NO reports of new triple-tracking on Cajon Pass, that new connecting the upper and lower parts will be a boon for railfans, track workers, train crew relief vans, etc. When I-15 has congestion problems for various reasons, soon there WILL be a getting around the problem route for those in the know.
The Upper and Lower Cajon Blvd. …
… Sections Have Been Striped!
It looks like the opening of the Cajon Blvd. upper and lower sections as a through road is imminent, as it has been striped!
The east side by Devore:
Cajon Blvd. going under the I-15 Freeway (middle left) on the ‘upper’ side:
The old northbound I-15 lanes (far left) are open again as a truck bypass and auto overflow route. The new northbound I-15 auto lanes are on the far right.
The northern end of the new Cajon Blvd. by Kenwood Ave.:
It is hoped those familiar with this area are encouraged by these developments.
----------
K.P. received a rare and unexpected SUNDAY assignment, and had no time to pack the good camera; hence, the above photos were taken with his old Sony camera that is kept in the car just in case.
A Spectacular Semi-Open New Road!
The lower and upper parts of Cajon Blvd. HAVE been connected and are a through route now after nearly 50 years of being separated. However, it is closed weekdays for further construction between 5 A.M. and 4 P.M. Saturday and Sunday the new road is completely open.
Passing over the new road it can best be described as rather spectacular, especially when going under the I-15 Freeway bridging.
It is hoped to be able to get back there in the next few days for photos to share with the forum, so you can marvel too at the now through road. Hopefully, a BNSF train will come along then and get in a camera view.
Some of upper Cajon Blvd. has deteriorated quite a bit. Is there any work being done on the road other than the new connection?
The Two Parts of Cajon …
… Blvd. Now Connected
Part “A” (of A-D)
A Quick Overview
An overview, from the southeast side (looking uphill) to the northwest side (looking downhill):
The freeway that goes over Cajon Blvd. and both the BNSF Transcon and UP Palmdale is Interstate 15.
Continued in Part B
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