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Cajon Pass Triple-Tracking Updates (Plus Barstow-Daggett)

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Posted by passengerfan on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 6:47 AM

Fantastic as always KP I certainly missed your updates and it is great having you back. It will take me a few days to digest all of your recent photos but I certainly will do my best as soon as I can.

Again great having you back.

Al - in - Stockton

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Friday, May 15, 2009 4:06 AM

Studying Oddities:  Part IV of VII

The steepness of the east side of Cajon Pass is evident in this view ... If this area is triple-tracked, will BNSF need to do major earth cutting here too?  NOT likely, at least in this location.  Note the lower curve.  The old Lugo siding (on the left) for westbound trains use to be there, before Automatic Block Signals was superseded by the bidirectional CTC of 1972.

Mountainous curvatures eastward eases up dramatically at [CP] LUGO, a good demarcation point between trains running slowly and faster

The Main Street overpass in Hesperia:  There seems to be sufficient clearance widthwise underneath for three tracks, but a water channel is questionable.  Will a new control point be built in this vicinity?  Most NEW and rebuilt rural control points on the Cajon Pass line are two signal blocks apart, and ending triple-track here would conform to this.  But, likely, triple-track will eventually extend further east because of the constant grade through here.  It seems that a water channel on the left would need to be relocated.

A special note:  Please study and remember the height of the ballast and elevated ground underneath the ballast in the above photo.  The significance of this will be brought up and explained in a separate section.

A northward (eastward) view of the Bear Valley Road overpass:  Three-tracks WILL fit through here! The middle of Bear Valley Road is the border line between the cities of Hesperia (camera side) and Victorville

This area is called Thorn.  Based on the two rural signal blocks apart concept, will a control point be installed in this vicinity?  This contributor does NOT think so!  Interestingly, presently between [CP] LUGO and [CP] FROST there are five blocks and NO dual control crossovers, even though that section is on a 1.5-1.6% grade!

The great "M.P. 39.1," the natural crossover railroad west of [CP] FROST:  Historically, the situation here has caused much ‘official' track designation problems, which is another oddity in itself.  But track identifications have settled down in recent decades and has remains constant.  At the point of intersecting, track identities reverse.  As an example, on the higher, elevated track, Main 1 in the background left becomes Main 2 in the background and foreground right.  Thus, as the rule goes on a two-track line, Main 1 is ALWAYS to the right when facing westbound

Some months ago the cover of TRAINS Magazine showed the above pictured "natural crossover" and an early morning Amtrak #3 traversing it.  It was probably shot from up on these hills.

North of the natural crossover, the tracks immediately come back together at Frost.  The [CP] FROST crossovers can be seen in the background 

In Victorville looking railroad west:  Around the corner in the far background is the location called The Mojave Narrows and [CP] FROST.  However, in this forumists opinion, IF this area is triple-tracked, the area between the Amtrak platforms in the photo foreground and the distant background curve would be a better place for a four-crossover three-track control point.  Because there is a grade crossing (6th Street) right behind the camera, and insufficient room for a normal length train to fit between it and [CP] FROST around the corner and out of view, Dispatchers radio westbound trains having red signals at [CP] FROST to hold east of this location.  Amtrak Nos. 3 & 4 stops here.

The "Natural Crossover" and Triple-Tracking

How will triple-tracking affect the natural crossover at M.P. 39.1?  There are several routing possibilities; each, though, with its own severe problems.  This contributor, after much thought, believes (i.e., strictly his opinion) that the following is the most viable:  The natural crossover will be totally eliminated!  Triple-tracking could then follow the original and present lower level track route eastwardly.  Curvature might be eased to a swooping curve.  The mounds and mounds and mounds of elevated dirt for the natural crossover could be completely removed and transported southward to be used as landfill to elevate the third-track to the height of the present two-track line.  (See the note under the third photo above)

Part V is scheduled for the morning of Sunday, May 17

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by billio on Friday, May 15, 2009 7:49 AM

Nice photo essay about triple track expansion, Summit to Barstow  -- dang, KP, t's good to have you back in these threads!   Agreed, it's inevitable, given the number of BNSF trains that slog through this stretch every day, augmented by UP traffic moving to and from the LA&SL at Daggett plus the odd Amtrak interloper, that this stretch will get triple tracked someday.

I will go out on a limb and make a prediction/forecast, which, if wrong, people can laugh at later.  The prediction:  triple-tracking on this stretch (which will take years, by the way) will commence only after BNSF completes double-tracking Abo Canyon, the Pecos River Bridge, the stretch through Vaughn, NM, and possibly, the Missouri River bridge at Sibley, MO (east of Kansas City).  Why?  Because congested though the line you showed us may be, this stretch still has two tracks to carry Transcon traffic, whereas at the other locations, there is but one track to support the entire Transcon (BNSF is in the process if fixing the problem at Abo Canyon, but its timetable for the others doubtless depends on 1) the economy, and 2) when the boys in Ft. Worth deem the time right to start shoveling), making it like stretches of uncompleted interstate highway spliced together by a two-lane road.

 

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:22 AM

Studying Oddities:  Part V of VII

Victorville is where helpers (if needed) have traditionally been put on for the westward assault of the east slope of Cajon Pass.  Looking eastbound from 6th Street

In and railroad east of Victorville there are industry congestion on the present two-track line.  This view looks westbound adjacent old Highway 66

Looking eastbound

At M.P. 33, an odd sight for non-Automatic Train Stop (ATS) territory!  Amtrak passenger trains on the Transcon are required by law to have ATS IF they hope to maintain timetable speeds as high as 90 M.P.H.  Here, in this single spot, ATS is used as a timing protection.  For a number of miles east (left) of here, Amtrak trains operate at 79 M.P.H.  To insure they slow down as they approach Victorville, a timing ATS device is used.  If an ATS equipped Amtrak locomotive arrives here too soon, ATS automatically overrides the engineer and stops the train

Industry track congestion continues at Oro Grande (Pronounce Grand WITHOUT the "e").  Looking westbound

Looking eastbound

Industry just off the main

Industry congestion then abruptly ends

This view looks westbound from the Robinson Ranch Road grade crossing:  The EAST ORO GRANDE crossovers are in the distance.  A dip is a good place to have a CP, as stopped trains can startup again on a downward grade.  In this forumist's opinion, IF triple-tracking does in fact reach this far eastward, this crossovers location is the most likely place for triple-tracking from the west to end

Part VI is scheduled for the morning of Tuesday, May 19

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by Modelcar on Sunday, May 17, 2009 4:35 PM

Being far removed from the exact area being skillfully shown, I still really enjoy following along all the photo / comments of the updates.

Quentin

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 4:29 AM

Studying Oddities:  Part VI of VII

Were railfans inspired to build these houses off Indian Trail Road due to a good view down onto the tracks?

In the Hodge area:  In the 1970's the curve previously on this now trackless right-of-way (foreground) was eased to a more sweeping one for greater speed.

From the same camera location:  Note the relatively new signal bridge on the sweeping curve.  It is NOT of a cantilevered variety.  The fact that it only has a two-track width suggests that this area will NOT be triple-tracked.  Interestingly, between [CP] EAST ORO GRANDE on the west and [CP] LENWOOD in the east, is high-speed desert running, with a maximum 79 M.P.M. speed limit for passenger trains, and 70 M.P.H. for freights. 

The above signal bridge replaced visually problematic mast target signals on this curve.  Looking westbound from the Hinkley Road grade crossing

Looking eastbound

A westward view of [CP] LENWOOD from Lenwood Road in Lenwood:  Again, a double-crossover in a dip.

Also, from Lenwood Road, an eastward view, looking at [CP] JEWELL.  With the advent of the Barstow Classification Yard in 1975-6, an un-signaled wye type track connected the routes from Northern and Southern California as they went into the Receiving Yard.  That wye type track several years ago was extended to a full train length.  [CP] JEWELL is the southern end of that wye track.  The track on the right with a train on it is not governed by the signals in this view.

By the short, old wye arrangement, the scene has changed dramatically in the last decade.  The old Highway 58 to Bakersfield has been relocated to here.  Old timers would hardly recognize the location now, as previously there were no obstacles to observing trains.  The above photo's Wye-type described track is the leftmost track.  The fact that the Receiving Yard is accessed via the LEFT of the two-tracks and NOT the right suggests that the "Natural Crossover" shown in Part IV will someday be eliminated

Part VII is scheduled for the morning of Thursday, May 21

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:34 AM

Studying Oddities:  Part VII of VII

This is basically the east end of Barstow Yard.  There are so many signaled tracks it is somewhat difficult to indentify them

Amtrak Nos. 3 and 4 stop at the historic Barstow station that currently houses a railroad museum.  The original mainline trackage divert briefly from the current mainline.  Old station walkways are still present after over 30 years of Barstow Yard.

A view of [CP] WEST DAGGETT:   Tracks are UP Main 1, BNSF Mains 1, 2, and 3, from left to right.  The new third track is on a wider center

Daggett:  A westward view.

Daggett:  When BNSF erected the new cantilever signal bridge separating BNSF and UP tracks, apparently UP oddly found no need to transfer the mast signal heads to the new structure.  Interestingly, there is no need for height because when eastbound trains are routed toward the UP for Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, North Platte and Chicago, the signals one photo above (controlled by the BNSF dispatcher) will not clear for a UP routing unless the mast signals in the below photo facing rightward have been cleared by the UP dispatcher

The absolute signals governing UP trains onto the BNSF are normally approach lit.  Oddly, this day they were all lit, and no UP train was approaching in either direction

Daggett:  Unlike new Cajon Pass signals, BNSF non-cantilevered/non-bridged signals are used eastward as the high train volume tracks head east into a lonely desert ...

The high speed line to Needles is somewhat rollercoaster-like eastward out of Barstow and Daggett, and the mirage-like rails reflect the blue sky.  Oddly, and believe it or not, history tells us that this Barstow to Needles line was actually built by the Southern Pacific!

Finally, About Milepost Oddities

First:  West from New Mexico, the mileposts start at 0.0, passes through Barstow at about M.P. 745, and end in Richmond (by Oakland) at M.P. 1189.0.  In Barstow, a line branches off, starting at M.P. 0.0., and goes via San Bernardino and Pasadena to Los Angeles, and ultimately ends in National City (M.P. 273.1) by San Diego.  The route via Pasadena has actually been severed, and presently it is impossible for through freights to completely traverse it.  Everything now goes via Riverside.  But the odd point is this:  A westbound Cajon Pass train destined for Los Angeles, between Fullerton and Los Angeles, actually passes mileposts that are numbered in a reverse order, AS IF THE TRAIN were traveling eastbound!  The following diagram shows this

The second highlighted oddity is about mileposts actually in Cajon Pass.  Shown below is the new double-crossover that was supposed to be named ALRAY after Al Ray, a Santa Fe official that lived many years ago.  (Until 1972, an old eastbound siding with that name had been located here)  At the last minute, the name was change to WALKER, in honor of the late, very famous railfan and retired Santa Fe train order man Chard Walker.  At the time of the below photograph last year, the best that I can determine is that its milepost location was around 60.0X.

However, about TWO MILES railroad west of the new WALKER crossovers is an intermediate cantilever signal bridge by Highway 138 with signal numbers indicating it is close to milepost 60 on that 2.2% line.  How can that be?

BNSF has adopted a rather different milepost system on Cajon Pass.  Main 3 (the 3.0% line) is normal; but the two mile longer Mains 1 and 2 now have unmarked mileposts based on miles being over 7300 feet in length, instead of the normal 5280 feet!  It will be fascinating to see if BNSF permanently adopts this and puts milepost markers up with "long mile" spacing.

This will end the "Studying Oddities" series, as well as the "Cajon Pass Triple-Tracking Updates" effort ... The latter at least until some word surfaces that further triple-tracking is taking place or will soon take place ...

Best wishes everyone, and happy railroading and/or railfanning,

K.P.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by passengerfan on Thursday, May 21, 2009 7:19 AM

Now KP you just have one thing left to do and that is put the entire series on Cajon Pass Triple Tracking in book format and sell me the first copy.

You could also turn your attention to the double tracking of the Sunset line.

Your series of photos and descriptions of the triple tracking have kept me for one anticipating each installment. I realize you had a major health setback and commend your efforts for carrying on this project. We sometimes realize to late that without good health we really have very little in this life. I am so pleased you have been able to complete this project you took on and hope you have continued good health.

Al - in - Stockton

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Posted by garyla on Sunday, May 24, 2009 4:06 PM

Thanks for your great work here, K.P.  You've kept this long-running thread very interesting and informative.  You really did a lot of homework.

 

As for the dated system of logging mileage:

Granted that the railroad industry is tradition-bound in a lot of ways, is there any prospect that BNSF might rationalize the way the mileposts are numbered in California, or is everyone involved so comfortable with it that no one cares? 

Though it could be worse.  What if, south of Oceanside, the San Diego line mileposts were stil numbered on the basis of the distance through Temecula Canyon?  Hey, what's a century or so?

If I ever met a train I didn't like, I can't remember when it happened!
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Posted by Railway Man on Sunday, May 24, 2009 4:40 PM

garyla

As for the dated system of logging mileage:

Granted that the railroad industry is tradition-bound in a lot of ways, is there any prospect that BNSF might rationalize the way the mileposts are numbered in California, or is everyone involved so comfortable with it that no one cares? 

Though it could be worse.  What if, south of Oceanside, the San Diego line mileposts were stil numbered on the basis of the distance through Temecula Canyon?  Hey, what's a century or so?

 

I can understand you not knowing what it would take to remilepost a subdivision but were the comments about tradition-bound and not caring really necessary?

To remilepost a subdivision might cost more than $100,000 per mile.

  1. Amend all the joint-faciilty agreements
  2. Amend all the at-grade crossing licenses
  3. Amend all the utility licenses
  4. Amend all the other land use licenses
  5. Amend all the industrial track agreements
  6. Amend all the signal circuit diagrams (500 sheets per 10 miles in territory like this).  Print new sheets.  Distribute to the signal maintenance manager, district signal maintenance manager, signal maintainer, each instrument house, and signal design.
  7. Amend the FRA reporting requirements
  8. Amend the Employee Timetable
  9. Amend the bridge and structures drawings
  10. Amend the track charts, rail records, FRA rail welding records, tie records, surface and line records, superelevation and unbalance records, survey records, digital survey maps, digital terrain maps, PTC track database, etc.
  11. Change the software in the dispatching center
  12. Amend the land ownership records
  13. Amend the valuation maps
  14. Replace the mileposts in the field, replace the CP signs on the CPs
  15. Replace the mile markers and resign the milepoles
  16. Amend any active environmental records or permits
  17. Do all this in a cutover so that the dispatching center software still works and employees don't get confused and people get hurt.

I'm sure I've left off some things.

Railroading is a little more complicated than a century ago.

RWM

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Posted by garyla on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 8:45 AM

Railway Man

garyla

As for the dated system of logging mileage:

Granted that the railroad industry is tradition-bound in a lot of ways, is there any prospect that BNSF might rationalize the way the mileposts are numbered in California, or is everyone involved so comfortable with it that no one cares? 

Though it could be worse.  What if, south of Oceanside, the San Diego line mileposts were stil numbered on the basis of the distance through Temecula Canyon?  Hey, what's a century or so?

 

I can understand you not knowing what it would take to remilepost a subdivision but were the comments about tradition-bound and not caring really necessary?

To remilepost a subdivision might cost more than $100,000 per mile.

  1. Amend all the joint-faciilty agreements
  2. Amend all the at-grade crossing licenses
  3. Amend all the utility licenses
  4. Amend all the other land use licenses
  5. Amend all the industrial track agreements
  6. Amend all the signal circuit diagrams (500 sheets per 10 miles in territory like this).  Print new sheets.  Distribute to the signal maintenance manager, district signal maintenance manager, signal maintainer, each instrument house, and signal design.
  7. Amend the FRA reporting requirements
  8. Amend the Employee Timetable
  9. Amend the bridge and structures drawings
  10. Amend the track charts, rail records, FRA rail welding records, tie records, surface and line records, superelevation and unbalance records, survey records, digital survey maps, digital terrain maps, PTC track database, etc.
  11. Change the software in the dispatching center
  12. Amend the land ownership records
  13. Amend the valuation maps
  14. Replace the mileposts in the field, replace the CP signs on the CPs
  15. Replace the mile markers and resign the milepoles
  16. Amend any active environmental records or permits
  17. Do all this in a cutover so that the dispatching center software still works and employees don't get confused and people get hurt.

I'm sure I've left off some things.

Railroading is a little more complicated than a century ago.

RWM

No offense intended.  Those look like very good reasons to leave it as is.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 3:44 PM

passengerfan (5-21):

Thanks!

As far as health … I’ve always felt life was flighty … My problem last year stemmed from a freak fall and hitting my head on a concrete stepping stone. 

garyla (5-24):

Thanks, to you too!

As far as mileposts are concerned:

Commuter developments in the last two decades have changed the maps of Southern California railroading considerably, and more changes can be expected in the future.  At least two lines, now owned by commuter interest, out of Los Angeles Union Station have had their mileposts renumbered:  (1) to Lancaster (ex-SP) and (2) to San Bernardino (ex-SP and ex-AT&SF).    

Sometime after the SP-UP merger, UP renumbered about 54 miles of mileposts between Sacramento and Lathrop in Northern California.

A Bad Omen for Railfans:

At the far end of upper Cajon Blvd, just railroad east of [CP] CAJON, the dirt road grade crossing has had at least one of its advisory sign change:  It now reads “PRIVATE.”  A symbolic literal dark cloud just happen to come by and cast a shadow on the right at the time the photo was taken

There are still plenty of public places to view the action in Cajon Pass, but more and more places are becoming off limits.  Even last year graffiti was becoming prolific in the once far away and quiet graffiti-free land of Cajon Pass.  Look what they did on the photo bottom

Will the Cajon railroads ever apply for and get a government grant to build over twenty-foot walls to protect their right-of-way?  I hope never, but just the idea is horrific for Cajon Pass photographers!

About Missing Switches 

Remember last year the “missing switch” at the new, incomplete [CP] CAJON?

The switch may have been pending constructed at this location, in the vicinity of [CP] SEVENTH STREET in San Bernardino.  Last year, I happened by this location and saw a switch being assembled in this sort of fenced area, on the photo left.  Unfortunately, at that time I didn’t have a camera with me!

So, if anyone sees a 50 M.P.H. turnout being assembled here, tell us all!  Maybe that would be a sign that more triple-tracking is coming!  Or, something is brewing near Los Angeles.  But, tell us …

K.P.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by chad thomas on Thursday, May 28, 2009 12:18 PM

 Thanks for all the updates KP !!!! I very much appriciate them as I don't get to Cajon very often these days. I look forward to more of your reports as well as the Sunset updates too. Thumbs UpCool

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Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, May 28, 2009 2:31 PM

.......More good stuff from K. P......Thanks.

Quentin

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Monday, November 9, 2009 5:48 PM

Update as of November 8, 2009

Devore, CA

Part A (of A-D)

On November 6, 2009, a year and a few days after the [CP] WALKER to [CP] KEENBROOK third-track was put in service, even in this poor economy upkeep maintenance was being performed on BNSF's western (railroad) edge of Cajon Pass, namely, at Devore, only a mile railroad west of KEENBROOK. Devore had a third-track installed three or four years ago.

The crossing gates were apparently turned off. The rail line in the foreground is Union Pacific's Palmdale Cutoff, just railroad north of UP's CTC Dike siding.

The work train was led by BNSF's contemporary good power.

Continued in Part B

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Monday, November 9, 2009 5:53 PM

Update as of November 8, 2009

Devore, CA

Part B (of A-D)

A rolling crane on rails that was on top of flatcars shuttled ties to drop off points.

A piece of equipment clearly conveyed what was going on.

A BN caboose brought up the rear of the resurfacing work-train on this ex-Santa Fe line.

Continued in Part C

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Monday, November 9, 2009 6:06 PM

Update as of November 8, 2009

Devore, CA

Part C (of A-D)

A number of track machines were behind the work-train.

BNSF work vehicles were present too ...

Signs blocked the grade crossing on the south side, and, presumably on the north side as well.

There was a like sign about a mile to the south, just off the freeway, that advised motorists of the closure. This railfan was surprised by the advisory sign off the freeway, and while it was relatively easy to read as to the blockage a mile ahead, the sign was somewhat confusing as to what motor could expect. Many, many motorists found it puzzling, and went around it anyway, and had to make three-point turns at the closed grade crossing so as to return back to the freeway. Of all days Friday was a super bad day for BNSF to choose to have the road closed. Massive amounts of gambling minded Southern Californians head to Las Vegas on I-15, and locals flock to the alternate Devore route to avoid traffic jams.

In this down economy, it is very refreshing, though, to see BNSF Railway maintaining its reputation as a railroad with first class track.

While much equipment and activity is in New Mexico's Abo Canyon two-tracking the bottleneck line therein, hopefully, when the economy improves, triple-tracking will resume in Cajon Pass beyond [CP] MARTINEZ, just a few miles east of [CP] SUMMIT, under twenty miles from Devore.

Continued in Part D

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Monday, November 9, 2009 6:16 PM

Update as of November 8, 2009

Devore, CA

Part D (of A-D)

A day after the above photos were shot, this forumist on the way back at night from photographing Sunset Route two-tracking updates during the day returned to the BNSF Devore site, and found that the signs the day before had been truthful. Everything was finished, and the road open.

It just so happened that a BNSF eastbound showed up about that time. The yellow striped engine decal-work blurs across the below photo taken at that time.

The eastbound train was caught again about five miles railroad east in the Blue Cut area (two railroad miles west of [CP] CAJON) at the Swarthout Canyon Road grade crossing, a very bright and lit up spot in an otherwise very dark and secluded Pass area.

Photography there, hand-held and without a tripod, was a bit more successful than at Devore. The train was on the NEW track this topic reported on and showed photos about LAST YEAR. My, my! Has it really been over a year already?

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by Southwest Chief on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:21 PM

K. P. Harrier

Studying Oddities:  Part V of VII

At M.P. 33, an odd sight for non-Automatic Train Stop (ATS) territory!  Amtrak passenger trains on the Transcon are required by law to have ATS IF they hope to maintain timetable speeds as high as 90 M.P.H.  Here, in this single spot, ATS is used as a timing protection.  For a number of miles east (left) of here, Amtrak trains operate at 79 M.P.H.  To insure they slow down as they approach Victorville, a timing ATS device is used.  If an ATS equipped Amtrak locomotive arrives here too soon, ATS automatically overrides the engineer and stops the train

 

I understand this is an extremely late reply, sorry about that.

But I greatly appreciate your explanation on this strange ATS placement.  I was on a special train, Barstow Flyer (October 17th).  Because this is a relatively high speed area of the route, I was sure to be out on the open platform of this train.  While moving along I noticed the ATS inductor and sign.  This shocked me as I know the area is not ATS protected so passenger trains are not permitted to travel over 79mph.  Your explanatoin cleard up this confusing issue for me.  Thanks.

Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, CO
Click Here for my model train photo website

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:32 AM

Southwest Chief (11-10):

You are welcome ...

When you were on that special passenger train and saw the ATS sign at M.P. 33, it is unknown if you also noticed or not that the Automatic Train Stop timing arrangement is in effect on only one track. The other track is unprotected by ATS.

Since BNSF has no need for ATS nowadays, for Amtrak to pay to convert the Transcon over to a two-track ATS arrangement from the present double-track type ATS arrangement would be prohibitively expensive. So, the only one-track ATS timing arrangement at M.P. 33 probably will never ever change.

K.P.

 

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Posted by BNSFwatcher on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:15 AM

At a glance, that rolling gantry looks like the tie-feeding rig on a TLM (Track Laying Machine).  It lifts the concrete ties above the load and travels down the flatcars, on rails, with "bridge" segments, and feeds them to the conveyor on the TLM.  The TLM, subsequently, rolls the rails into position, where they are secured by clips.  Interestingly, there are two guys under the machine that drop off clips and anchors as the ties are fed in fornt of them.  Not a job I'd want!  A bulldozer pulls the TLM along.  Never saw it work with wood ties, but that may be possible.  BNSF extended two sidings in our south yard (Shelby, MT), a few years ago, and it was an interesting process to watch!  BTW, a "Geotech" fabric was laid down first, to keep the ballast from getting sullied by encroaching, underlying dirt.  A Herzog rig did the work, out here.

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Posted by Southwest Chief on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:45 PM

K. P. Harrier

Southwest Chief (11-10):

You are welcome ...

When you were on that special passenger train and saw the ATS sign at M.P. 33, it is unknown if you also noticed or not that the Automatic Train Stop timing arrangement is in effect on only one track. The other track is unprotected by ATS.

 

Sure did.  We were running normal Santa Fe style right handed eastbound so the ATS inductor and sign were on the westbound (main 1) track.  I probably would not have noticed the ATS sign if it was on our track facing the other way.  If it was that way, then all I would have seen would have been the back of the sign and I'd have probably missed the inductor as well.  Funny how things work out sometimes.

Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, CO
Click Here for my model train photo website

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 4:25 PM

K.P., thanks again for sharing, as always.  Thumbs Up  Good to see that you're 'back in the groove'.  Love those candids and 'grab shots' of the MOW guys at work and their equipment.

Southwest Chief - so how was the rest of the trip ?  Not so much the food, but the railroadin' ?

- Paul North.

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by Awesome! on Sunday, November 29, 2009 11:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/chefjavier
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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 3:29 PM

Update as of September 11, 2010:

Part A (of A-B)

This forum poster stumbled across much activity that was going on by [CP] SEVENTH STREET (M.P. 80.6) in San Bernardino, CA.  (As a reference point, [CP] SUMMIT, at the top of Cajon Pass, is at M.P. 55.9.)  When first observed, there was much equipment and workers on the tracks, but by time K.P. could get back to the scene, much equipment and workers had departed.

There was, nevertheless, an inordinate amount of BNSF vehicles parked on "I" Street, between 6th and Spruce Streets.

What exactly was going on is not known.

The location where the two yellow pieces of equipment are parked in the above second photo's background top center is where many of the switches were assembled in the triple-tracking over Cajon Pass.

(The dark lower photo corners on the first photo above were caused by the limitations imposed with trying to shoot wide angle pictures through fine wire mesh overpass fencing.)

K.P. finally had a few minutes to photograph the CP called VERDEMONT (M.P. 73.9), which CP has never been shown in this thread.  For the benefit of those out of state, the following photos are posted:

Looking westbound:  From left to right, the siding, Mains 3, 2, and 1.

Looking eastbound:  Again from left to right, Mains 1, 2, and 3.

Mains 1 and 2 here are the old two-track line.

The Palm Ave. grade crossing where the last two photos were shot from (adjacent Cajon Blvd.) is scheduled to have an overpass constructed in a few years.

Continued in Part B

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 3:37 PM

Update as of September 11, 2010:

Part B (of A-B)

Presently, it is known that there has been some talk about rerouting UP trains off the BNSF line over to UP's Palmdale Cutoff.  Some trains do that now, such as in the below east looking photo that depicts an eastbound UP at West Colton Yard transitioning to the Palmdale Cutoff (left upper corner).  The photo was shot April 30, 2009 as the track was being torn up in implementing the redesign of the east end of West Colton Yard.

In the above UP Sunset Route photo, the BNSF Transcon is only less than a mile and a half further east.

Such rerouted trains go all the way up Cajon Pass and get on the BNSF to head north (railroad east) to Salt Lake City at the UP and BNSF CP's both called SILVERWOOD.  The SILVERWOOD on the BNSF side is at M.P. 56.6, which is shown in the second photo below.

The ironic part of this is that now that BNSF has triple-tracked between San Bernardino (technically from Colton) and Summit in Cajon Pass (technically [CP] MARTINEZ), UP is reportedly 'thinking' of getting off the BNSF!  Obviously, UP would continue on the BNSF from [CP] SILVERWOOD to [CP] DAGGETT (M.P. 737.3 on the Needles Sub).

K.P. does not know the status of the BNSF two-tracking of Abo Canyon in New Mexico, but it is undoubtedly moving along just fine.  The economy is reportedly getting better, so once the Abo Canyon project is finished, it is wondered if those Abo construction crews will return to Cajon Pass in California, and start triple-tracking from [CP] MARTINEZ eastward, to at least [CP] LUGO (which CP is only about three miles further east).  Time will tell ...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by rdamon on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 9:43 PM

I seem to remember that culvert extensions and other ROW "Make Ready" had ready been completed well past Lugo into Hesperia back before CP 3MT construction started.

K.P. ... you are the RR western conspiracy theorist. :)

Robert 

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 3, 2011 1:42 PM

Update as of Tuesday, March 1, 2011:

In this four part series:

Part I:  Radical Freeway Changes in San Bernardino

Part II:  Radical Freeway Changes in San Bernardino (Continued)

Part III:  A Side Trip about Bridge Structures

Part IV:  Missing Tri-Lights; Triple-Tracking Is Working; Colton Crossing

Part I (of I-IV)

Radical Freeway Changes in San Bernardino

For over fifty years what is now the I-215 Freeway has been in place.  But, the whole freeway is being rebuilt on different alignments. 

In the above photo's lower left, from left to right, are Mains 1, 2, 3; the far left track is used for intermodal pickups.

The crossovers for the three-track CP BASELINE are visible in the distance.

Right and above the photo center, is a new bridge support.  It is actually in the way of the old freeway alignment, and the freeway presently has to go around it.  Since the new freeway alignment will be further away from the tracks, it will be a safer environment for motorists.  K.P. has driven the freeway in question for years ... and shuddered at the thought of a derailment.  Engines and freight cars could theoretically end up on the freeway with motorists swerving out of the way if they could!

(Reference the past closeness of the freeway, a photo of such is the first one of Part A in the K.P. post of September 14, 2010 on this page.)

Previously, the I-215 southbound traffic exited at what was called Fifth Street but in reality was actually funneled to Sixth Street, and the arrangement was a left handed exit.  That is being changed to Fifth Street itself, and bridging for the exit is now being constructed.

A west side view looking east: 

Continued in Part II

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 3, 2011 1:49 PM

Update as of Tuesday, March 1, 2011:

Part II (of I-IV)

Radical Freeway Changes in San Bernardino (Continued)

Surveyors were on site doing their measurements and markings.  But they must be invisible, stealth-like types, as K.P. never seems to see them ... 

In the just above photo, the fencing is the small wire meshing type that hinders railroad photography.

It is amazing how bridges are constructed. 

 

 

Continued in Part III

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 3, 2011 1:54 PM

Update as of Tuesday, March 1, 2011:

Part III (of I-IV)

A Side Trip about Bridge Structures

Concrete bridge structures are a marvel of engineering design, as seen in the previous Part II.  About 45 miles further railroad west, the old Santa Fe "Second District," now owned by commuter interests, crossed the 210 Freeway in Arcadia (near Pasadena) on a marvel of a curved bridge.  It was torn down years ago because it was not earthquake safe, but the commuter interests will start a replacement in a few months.  But notice what was left behind years ago ...

The east end: 

View across the freeway: 

A closer view: 

While a roadway bridge does not have to hold up the weight of a train, bridging in any form is a marvel.

Getting back to the Fifth Street Bridge in San Bernardino ...

While the present construction affords opportunities for photography, the Fifth Street Bridge is another example of how railbuffs are increasingly finding hindrances to photo documenting a three-track line.  A spare camera with a very small lens comes in handy with such fencing.

Continued in Part IV

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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